The entire argument that RMAH is "pay to win" in pvp is wrong, entirely. The reason being that pvp matches are based on similar gear and other things (watch the pvp video if you want to know them all). So equally geared players one who got all their gear and knows how to play their char VS payed for gear and has no clue what they are doing.
If anything, it's pay to lose or at least pay to compete.
Fine, my wording was bad. People buying items for RM was a smaller community than PvP. Thats the only point I'm trying to get across.
Do you really think so? I knew lot more people who bought items than those who were into "serious" PvP in D2. I mean sure they joined public PvP games, but that's not real pvp.
I thought the discussion here was about Blizzards attitude toward implanting a more serious non casual pvp system? you quoted me way back about my post which was about blizzards involvement and support for pvp which was in diablo 2 casual.
I never said that players/fans didn't take it serious, but the point is that blizzard doesn't want people to be measured by a rank/ladder in pvp, and that is a good thing in my opinion since the pvp side is aimed at more casual players.
My point was why is Blizzard spending resources on something like a RM AH which was a very niche community while outwardly expressing that they want to make sure D3 PvP is casual, even though competitive PvP in D2 was a much bigger niche.
And the resources needed for keeping and balancing such a thing is huge compared to making a RMAH, not to talk about the main reason they decided to ditch a ladder was because of ppl not being rated by numbers when it comes to pvp.
At the end of the day only a very small portion of the community in the first 3-5 years of the games life cared about pvping in a competitive form, blizzard decided to favor the casual players enjoyment of the game which i am happy for.
We can disagree on this all day long but it doesnt change the fact that implanting a RM AH is much less costly then having to balance skills/items and whatnot over the course of the life of the game.
Fine, my wording was bad. People buying items for RM was a smaller community than PvP. Thats the only point I'm trying to get across.
Do you really think so? I knew lot more people who bought items than those who were into "serious" PvP in D2. I mean sure they joined public PvP games, but that's not real pvp.
I believe it was more popular, but as a fact, your right... None of us can say.
If I could, I'd start a poll asking "Did you play a lot of PvP in Diablo 2 or WoW", "Did you pay real money for virtual goods in Diablo 2 or WoW", and "I did both".
Fine, my wording was bad. People buying items for RM was a smaller community than PvP. Thats the only point I'm trying to get across.
Not to beat a dead horse, but even if that WAS true for d2 (and i by no means think it is, if massive numbers of people WEREN'T buying items, there wouldn't be as many bots as there were/are in d2) its certainly not true now. the number of gamers with disposable income has only grown since d2, since a lot of the kids who played d2 now have jobs and/or families. with jobs and families comes a lack of time, which makes spending money on getting things quicker look appealing.
and if you don't have a job, you can use d3 to make income now. I have a job, and i STILL plan to try and maximize my $/hour spent playing d3 just so that i can make as much money as possible while enjoying what i'm doing. That would be a fantastic change of pace from my real job, and hell it might take care of one of any of my given bills enjoyable to pay (how @$##ed up is that?!?!).
Fine, my wording was bad. People buying items for RM was a smaller community than PvP. Thats the only point I'm trying to get across.
Do you really think so? I knew lot more people who bought items than those who were into "serious" PvP in D2. I mean sure they joined public PvP games, but that's not real pvp.
I believe it was more popular, but as a fact, your right... None of us can say.
If I could, I'd start a poll asking "Did you play a lot of PvP in Diablo 2 or WoW", "Did you pay real money for virtual goods in Diablo 2 or WoW", and "I did both".
Yeah, it would be interesting to see. I do wish they would give pvp a little bit more focus, but I am sure it will be a lot of fun either way. Do we know if we will be able to create custom/private pvp matches with our friends?
Fine, my wording was bad. People buying items for RM was a smaller community than PvP. Thats the only point I'm trying to get across.
Not to beat a dead horse, but even if that WAS true for d2 (and i by no means think it is, if massive numbers of people WEREN'T buying items, there wouldn't be as many bots as there were/are in d2) its certainly not true now. the number of gamers with disposable income has only grown since d2, since a lot of the kids who played d2 now have jobs and/or families. with jobs and families comes a lack of time, which makes spending money on getting things quicker look appealing.
and if you don't have a job, you can use d3 to make income now. I have a job, and i STILL plan to try and maximize my $/hour spent playing d3 just so that i can make as much money as possible while enjoying what i'm doing. That would be a fantastic change of pace from my real job, and hell it might take care of one of any of my given bills enjoyable to pay (how @$##ed up is that?!?!).
Honestly dude You and me both. If I can manage to make 60 bucks to pay for d3, and another 65 a month to pay for my internet service enjoying the hell out of a game I was gonna play anyways, I cant wait.
I mentioned that earlier. Everyone who buys d3 now has the chance to actually play it for Free, even the net.
Maybe its because I'm an older gamer now. Real life isnt peaches and gum drops. I'm given an opportunity to maximize my enjoyment while taking care of life's problems(some bills here and there), Im for sure gonna take that opportunity.
Its funny how narrowminded people are about the opportunity they are being given by blizzard. I learned a long time ago never pass up an opportunity. I passed many an opportunity up back in my day being self righteous and narrow-minded.
Fine, my wording was bad. People buying items for RM was a smaller community than PvP. Thats the only point I'm trying to get across.
Not to beat a dead horse, but even if that WAS true for d2 (and i by no means think it is, if massive numbers of people WEREN'T buying items, there wouldn't be as many bots as there were/are in d2) its certainly not true now. the number of gamers with disposable income has only grown since d2, since a lot of the kids who played d2 now have jobs and/or families. with jobs and families comes a lack of time, which makes spending money on getting things quicker look appealing.
and if you don't have a job, you can use d3 to make income now. I have a job, and i STILL plan to try and maximize my $/hour spent playing d3 just so that i can make as much money as possible while enjoying what i'm doing. That would be a fantastic change of pace from my real job, and hell it might take care of one of any of my given bills enjoyable to pay (how @$##ed up is that?!?!).
another dreamer thinking he will make a lot of money from d3 HA HA HA
In reality, I'm almost certainly going to reinvest some of the e-balance into items early, and then get what I can from drops from then on out (speaking fiscally). If I'm unable to do hell or whatever the endgame is, i'll probably throw down enough to get farming up in there.
I mean, I'd have been willing to pay for items in d2 if it was blizz sanctioned, and i'm sure (though i have nothing to cite) there are more people that DIDN'T buy items that would have if it had sanctioned than there were people actually buying items.
I don't think the D2 experience can at all compare with how a Blizzard run RMAH is going to function. The vast majority of players will end up putting at least a bit of money into the system, mark my words. When people see the item they want staring them in the face for 5$, in an easy to use, secure user interface, they will not be able to help themselves.
I don't think the D2 experience can at all compare with how a Blizzard run RMAH is going to function. The vast majority of players will end up putting at least a bit of money into the system, mark my words. When people see the item they want staring them in the face for 5$, in an easy to use, secure user interface, they will not be able to help themselves.
Honestly, I'm not against the RMAH. Its 2011... People pay money for virtual goods. I just feel as though more focus should be spent on PvP since the audience (in my opinion) is larger.
Honestly, I'm not against the RMAH. Its 2011... People pay money for virtual goods. I just feel as though more focus should be spent on PvP since the audience (in my opinion) is larger.
If we're here to hazard guesses, i'm throwing mine against. I traded gametime and currency in several games since it became popular with developers. The thing I noticed in almost all of those games: the guys who input cash... don't post on the forums or have a very minimal presence on them. They're the casual market so to speak and they are huge.
As for pvp, in the ARPG genre, there's very little to go on in terms of advanced pvp (imho). I can safely assume (based on reading this and other forums) some players were really counting on it making an appearance in Diablo3, but that's not the case. Wether or not they're a vocal forum minority (my thought) or an untapped market remains to be seen. However, you can safely bet there won't be Heros of Newerth or Leage of Legends fanatics flocking to D3 for the pvp.
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If anything, it's pay to lose or at least pay to compete.
Do you really think so? I knew lot more people who bought items than those who were into "serious" PvP in D2. I mean sure they joined public PvP games, but that's not real pvp.
And the resources needed for keeping and balancing such a thing is huge compared to making a RMAH, not to talk about the main reason they decided to ditch a ladder was because of ppl not being rated by numbers when it comes to pvp.
At the end of the day only a very small portion of the community in the first 3-5 years of the games life cared about pvping in a competitive form, blizzard decided to favor the casual players enjoyment of the game which i am happy for.
We can disagree on this all day long but it doesnt change the fact that implanting a RM AH is much less costly then having to balance skills/items and whatnot over the course of the life of the game.
I believe it was more popular, but as a fact, your right... None of us can say.
If I could, I'd start a poll asking "Did you play a lot of PvP in Diablo 2 or WoW", "Did you pay real money for virtual goods in Diablo 2 or WoW", and "I did both".
Not to beat a dead horse, but even if that WAS true for d2 (and i by no means think it is, if massive numbers of people WEREN'T buying items, there wouldn't be as many bots as there were/are in d2) its certainly not true now. the number of gamers with disposable income has only grown since d2, since a lot of the kids who played d2 now have jobs and/or families. with jobs and families comes a lack of time, which makes spending money on getting things quicker look appealing.
and if you don't have a job, you can use d3 to make income now. I have a job, and i STILL plan to try and maximize my $/hour spent playing d3 just so that i can make as much money as possible while enjoying what i'm doing. That would be a fantastic change of pace from my real job, and hell it might take care of one of any of my given bills enjoyable to pay (how @$##ed up is that?!?!).
Yeah, it would be interesting to see. I do wish they would give pvp a little bit more focus, but I am sure it will be a lot of fun either way. Do we know if we will be able to create custom/private pvp matches with our friends?
Honestly dude You and me both. If I can manage to make 60 bucks to pay for d3, and another 65 a month to pay for my internet service enjoying the hell out of a game I was gonna play anyways, I cant wait.
I mentioned that earlier. Everyone who buys d3 now has the chance to actually play it for Free, even the net.
Maybe its because I'm an older gamer now. Real life isnt peaches and gum drops. I'm given an opportunity to maximize my enjoyment while taking care of life's problems(some bills here and there), Im for sure gonna take that opportunity.
Its funny how narrowminded people are about the opportunity they are being given by blizzard. I learned a long time ago never pass up an opportunity. I passed many an opportunity up back in my day being self righteous and narrow-minded.
Not anymore.
HA
That's the spirit!
maybe you'll buy an icecream someday
I am just messing with you, but ultimately with that attitude of course you won't make any money. You won't ever climb a mountain if you don't try.
I mean, I'd have been willing to pay for items in d2 if it was blizz sanctioned, and i'm sure (though i have nothing to cite) there are more people that DIDN'T buy items that would have if it had sanctioned than there were people actually buying items.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/26615-pvp-vs-real-money-for-virtual-goods/
Done. Although I probably didn't adhere to expectations. I apologize.
Honestly, I'm not against the RMAH. Its 2011... People pay money for virtual goods. I just feel as though more focus should be spent on PvP since the audience (in my opinion) is larger.
If we're here to hazard guesses, i'm throwing mine against. I traded gametime and currency in several games since it became popular with developers. The thing I noticed in almost all of those games: the guys who input cash... don't post on the forums or have a very minimal presence on them. They're the casual market so to speak and they are huge.
As for pvp, in the ARPG genre, there's very little to go on in terms of advanced pvp (imho). I can safely assume (based on reading this and other forums) some players were really counting on it making an appearance in Diablo3, but that's not the case. Wether or not they're a vocal forum minority (my thought) or an untapped market remains to be seen. However, you can safely bet there won't be Heros of Newerth or Leage of Legends fanatics flocking to D3 for the pvp.