I want to ask everyone here a rather controversial question:
What exactly is so sad about the death of person you never personally knew?
You do realize that humans are nothing more than intelligent animals? And the world population of this species of animals is about to hit critical mass? In Minnesota, United States (where i live), we actually get asked by the government to go out and kill deer in order to thin the herd. The reason: because, overopulation leads to suffering. It has been determined that it is more humane to kill them outright then cause them suffer through starvation and quasi canibalism.
As the world population continues to grow, we are going to hit the ultimate rule of economics. There is infinite demand for finite resources. Human suffering will grow exponentially, and all of you mourning death now, will see how dreadfully wrong you are.
I'm not sure what your point is at all. Are you saying that due to overpopulation we shouldn't be sad when people die because we need people to die anyway to compensate for overpopulation?
First of all, I won't deny for a moment that the world is too overpopulated. But the solution is not to give the okay for mass murder....I think that was the point you're making but I dare not be so bold I think. The best way to reduce population is to increase education and improve people's economic status as much as possible. The correlation between education and low birth rate is too high to ignore.
And to be happy about Osama being dead doesn't just have to be about feeling sad for those who died. To me anyway, it's more about the fact we killed a really dangerous man. And sure, someone will take his place. I get that. But just cause some bad guy will inevitably replace another that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop them.
I'm not at all saying mass murder is a good thing... or a necessity. I just don't get why death is considered such a tragic event that the execution/assasination of a mass murderer like Osama would not be considered a joyous event.
I am not saying that we need to kill humans to thin out our populations... only that we need to understand that death is a necessity. People being saddened by the death (solely because its DEATH)of Osama is stupid.
Also, your statistics about education and birth rate are only somewhat valid. I know a family of 9 children... the father having a PHD, and the mother having a masters.
The reason the population is growing so exponentially is due to the rise of healthcare, and the rise of socialism. Darwinian survival no longer exists, and the elderly live significantly longer than before.
Apparently they warned this back on the 25th, so now we just sit and wait to see what happens. I hope they're full of hot air, or we're really prepared.
I'm sure they are prepared for some form of retaliation since they announced one. Hell, they should be prepared anyways announcement or not. But they knew the warnings before 9/11 and look what happened.
Personally, I think it would have been smarter to assasinate him mob style. We should have just killed him and dumped the bodies in the ocean without announcement. This would have cut the head off the snake without publicizing his death and turning him into a martyr.
I'm not at all saying mass murder is a good thing... or a necessity. I just don't get why death is considered such a tragic event that the execution/assasination of a mass murderer like Osama would not be considered a joyous event.
People deal with death on several different levels. I still barely understood that second sentence though.
I am not saying that we need to kill humans to thin out our populations... only that we need to understand that death is a necessity. People being saddened by the death (solely because its DEATH)of Osama is stupid.
You telling people that they're stupid for being sad over death is what's stupid. And seriously you're confusing me. Are you saying that feeling sad over Osama being dead is stupid or feeling sad over deaths that he caused is stupid?
Also, your statistics about education and birth rate are only somewhat valid. I know a family of 9 children... the father having a PHD, and the mother having a masters.
Um, the correlation between education and birth rate is a little more than somewhat valid. You think because you know an exception to it that it makes the overall statistic less true? I hate when people try to prove someone wrong by citing one specific case to the contrary. Yes, obviously just cause someone is educated and wealthy this doesn't mean they will never have lots of children. But it remains true regardless that poorer people tend to have more children than wealthier and more educated people do. You knowing an exceptional family just proves that there are exceptions to everything. So what?
The reason the population is growing so exponentially is due to the rise of healthcare, and the rise of socialism. Darwinian survival no longer exists, and the elderly live significantly longer than before.
Whaaaat? Yes, it is true that people are living longer than before, but we're not experiencing overwhelming population because of a low death rate as much as just a really really high birth rate.
Quote from Sabvre »
Personally, I think it would have been smarter to assasinate him mob style. We should have just killed him and dumped the bodies in the ocean without announcement. This would have cut the head off the snake without publicizing his death and turning him into a martyr.
It's kind of hard to kill someone as infamous as Osama bin Laden without anyone knowing about it.
Apparently they warned this back on the 25th, so now we just sit and wait to see what happens. I hope they're full of hot air, or we're really prepared.
The CIA has confirmed that Al Qaeda has nuclear weapons. They said they were gonna detonate a nuke in Europe if Osama were to be captured or killed, and that they would unleash a "nuclear hell".
The CIA has confirmed that Al Qaeda has nuclear weapons. They said they were gonna detonate a nuke in Europe if Osama were to be captured or killed, and that they would unleash a "nuclear hell".
I find this hard to believe. Why wait only until after Osama has been captured or killed to use a nuclear weapon? Do they have the means to detonate the nuclear weapon?
I will readily believe however that they could get nuclear weapons considering how politically unstable Pakistan has become.
@ Sabvre, he could, and probably is, considered a martyr.
Of course he's a martyr to someone. It ain't hard being a martyr. Even if you secretly assassinated him and he went missing he could potentially be even more of a martyr cause now there is mystery around his death and he could become more of a legend if no one actually saw him die.
The CIA has confirmed that Al Qaeda has nuclear weapons. They said they were gonna detonate a nuke in Europe if Osama were to be captured or killed, and that they would unleash a "nuclear hell".
I find this hard to believe. Why wait only until after Osama has been captured or killed to use a nuclear weapon? Do they have the means to detonate the nuclear weapon?
I will readily believe however that they could get nuclear weapons considering how politically unstable Pakistan has become.
@ Sabvre, he could, and probably is, considered a martyr.
Of course he's a martyr to someone. It ain't hard being a martyr. Even if you secretly assassinated him and he went missing he could potentially be even more of a martyr cause now there is mystery around his death and he could become more of a legend if no one actually saw him die.
Yeah, it's not a figment of my imagination. I'm gonna take the word of the CIA on this one, even though I feel dirty all over in doing so.
Maybe they were saving the nukes for something else. I dunno.
They could easily detonate them in Europe without having to fire them. Less effective yes, but still awfully dangerous.
It's sort of eerie to think about how easily they could cross our southern border and into the country. That thing is like wide open door with a welcome mat. It'd be harder to get nuclear materials over here though unless they already have them, but that doesn't stop any other nasty forms of destruction.
I'd say at the least though we're bound to see more car bombings etc.
Edit: Well Mephy beat me to it with his article. I was thinking the border was weak.
Am i the only one that believes this whole thing went down (with the threats on Europe etc) to cause fear and disctracts the european citizens from the economic crisis that we have to live through for over a year now?
Yeah, Al Qaeda might have weapons of mass destruction, sure they might use them. But i feel the timing of this was too convenient for the leaders of the European countries (and others aswell) to be a coinsidence. I might be paranoid, but i feel the biggest threat would be for us (citizens) to give up our freedom to be "protected" by a threat we can't be sure is even real.
Am i the only one that believes this whole thing went down...
Obama's birth certificate comes under fire, white house finally produces one, people start saying its fake. BAM, Osama is killed. BTW Elections are coming up.
i know and it feels wrong. Elections coming in the States, economic crisis in Europe. Some need votes, others need distractions. Only ones to lose are the citizens, really...
Well according to the first article, the information was obtained from a Guantanamo detainee. This makes the information somewhat sketchy as there is no telling how long he detainee was tortured before releasing the information and you can be sure that he was tortured before telling them a thing like that. Whether because it really was true or because he just wanted to stop being tortured, well that's what has been the problem with most Guantanamo detainees is they've been interrogated by people who aren't really trained in interrogating prisoners. So the al-Qaeda leader admits to having a nuclear facility somewhere in Europe which is vague at best. But I don't know how hard it is to hide and maintain such a facility so I can't really comment on the probable veracity of such a claim.
My problem with the second article is just that it's several years old. I know al-Qaeda cares a lot about theatrics and timed attacks, but it seems to me that if they had a nuclear weapon and could detonate they wouldn't wait on it just for the sake of making a grand gesture. Cause the longer you hold on to that weapon and wait to blow it up, the more likely something could go wrong with the plan. Either the network of people could disappear or be arrested or a number of other things, or in time the bomb itself could be discovered and disarmed for good. I'm just saying that I don't think they have the capability as of right now to do it or they would've done it already. Because if yo have that kind of power, you're not going to risk losing it later down the road. It's too much of an investment to wait on it just for the sake of theatrics.
Not that I'm saying still that it's totally improbable for them to get a working nuclear weapon. I'm just rather cynical that they do now.
i know and it feels wrong. Elections coming in the States, economic crisis in Europe. Some need votes, others need distractions. Only ones to lose are the citizens, really...
Sorry I really don't subscribe to your conspiracy theory. You're claiming it seems that everyone knew exactly where he was all this time but just waited when it was politically best to take him out. This seems more likely to you than a failing and fragmented government in Pakistan hiding bin Laden all these years because some were either sympathetic to him or really really liked his money. I don't know....
Am i the only one that believes this whole thing went down...
Obama's birth certificate comes under fire, white house finally produces one, people start saying its fake. BAM, Osama is killed. BTW Elections are coming up.
It's not just in Europe that it was convenient.
Have you seen/heard the people who dispute Obama was born in the USA? The only reason the birth certificate wasn't produced until now is that they knew people would say it was fake, and until Donald Trump started using it as a platform to run for POTUS there was no real reason to release it except in hopes of convincing people who are probably just trying to disguise the fact that they're racist. Not to mention that elections aren't for another 16 months (or 4 for the Senate/House). Approval ratings and polls about the upcoming presidency historically don't mean shit around this time of year, so if this was purely for elections it would have been 'saved' for a more relevant time.
And just saying, that argument about it being a distraction from the economy could have been used if the news of Osama's death came at any point in the last three or so years, so its not really relevant.
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Have you seen/heard the people who dispute Obama was born in the USA?
Yeah I could care less if he was born here or not personally, and I certainly don't like Trump.
*puts on tinfoil hat*
I just find it interesting this happens in the midst of all the other chaos going on in the last couple years which just seems to keep coming. Of course if you go looking for a conspiracy, you'll find one. So who knows. *takes off tinfoil hat*
The only thing I do know is I do not trust everything the government says, any government. They have withheld enough in the past for me not to surrender unwavering trust to them.
Have you seen/heard the people who dispute Obama was born in the USA? The only reason the birth certificate wasn't produced until now is that they knew people would say it was fake, and until Donald Trump started using it as a platform to run for POTUS there was no real reason to release it except in hopes of convincing people who are probably just trying to disguise the fact that they're racist. Not to mention that elections aren't for another 16 months (or 4 for the Senate/House). Approval ratings and polls about the upcoming presidency historically don't mean shit around this time of year, so if this was purely for elections it would have been 'saved' for a more relevant time.And just saying, that exact argument could have been used if the news of Osama's death came at any point in the last three or so years, so its not really relevant.
I was actually going to post something to this effect.
You know, you could probably argue that the death of Obama's grandmother was "convenient" because it occurred the day before the election, he could use her to extract sympathy for votes or something.
"Oh, poor Obama. Maybe we should vote for him to make him feel better."
But, alas, that's too simple; that's thinking like a politician. You also need to understand that, given his position, would you not disclose information concerning the death of a notorious terrorist leader who caused the death of thousands in your own country that has left both social and economic scars on your country for years to come? Osama's damage runs deeper than just 3,000 innocent civilians and Americans have every right to despise this man and, albeit ill-mannered and childish, celebrate in the aftermath of his death.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
Just adding some thoughts of mine concerning Bin Laden's death.
Al Quaeda still has a chain of command, most likely the second-in-command (whose name escapes me right now) will take charge of the group, and with the Bin Laden's death, I expect a serious backlash from them on the world (most likely America again) in the near future.
Just adding some thoughts of mine concerning Bin Laden's death.
Al Quaeda still has a chain of command, most likely the second-in-command (whose name escapes me right now) will take charge of the group, and with the Bin Laden's death, I expect a serious backlash from them on the world (most likely America again) in the near future.
War on Terrorism isn't over yet.
His name is al-Zawahiri.
And no, the war on terror will never be completely won. And I don't wish to understate the threat of terrorism, but just like the effort to fight it, so too does terrorism require a lot of money and energy and manpower. It has setbacks just like governments do. And terrorists constantly have to operate in secret where governments can openly fight them.
I'm not sure what my point is really. I'm just trying to say that yes we should still take terrorism seriously, but it doesn't have to affect our daily lives. Terrorists are far from being all powerful and they have to work hard every day too to keep terror going at least as much as governments have to work hard to fight them.
Just adding some thoughts of mine concerning Bin Laden's death.
Al Quaeda still has a chain of command, most likely the second-in-command (whose name escapes me right now) will take charge of the group, and with the Bin Laden's death, I expect a serious backlash from them on the world (most likely America again) in the near future.
War on Terrorism isn't over yet.
His name is al-Zawahiri.
And no, the war on terror will never be completely won. And I don't wish to understate the threat of terrorism, but just like the effort to fight it, so too does terrorism require a lot of money and energy and manpower. It has setbacks just like governments do. And terrorists constantly have to operate in secret where governments can openly fight them.
I'm not sure what my point is really. I'm just trying to say that yes we should still take terrorism seriously, but it doesn't have to affect our daily lives. Terrorists are far from being all powerful and they have to work hard every day too to keep terror going at least as much as governments have to work hard to fight them.
Zawahiri is the next in line. But have we heard anything from him for a long time? Anyhow, I agree with Siaynoq, we will never win the "war" on terror. Terrorism is an ideology. How do you fight that and win?
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I'm not at all saying mass murder is a good thing... or a necessity. I just don't get why death is considered such a tragic event that the execution/assasination of a mass murderer like Osama would not be considered a joyous event.
I am not saying that we need to kill humans to thin out our populations... only that we need to understand that death is a necessity. People being saddened by the death (solely because its DEATH)of Osama is stupid.
Also, your statistics about education and birth rate are only somewhat valid. I know a family of 9 children... the father having a PHD, and the mother having a masters.
The reason the population is growing so exponentially is due to the rise of healthcare, and the rise of socialism. Darwinian survival no longer exists, and the elderly live significantly longer than before.
Personally, I think it would have been smarter to assasinate him mob style. We should have just killed him and dumped the bodies in the ocean without announcement. This would have cut the head off the snake without publicizing his death and turning him into a martyr.
You telling people that they're stupid for being sad over death is what's stupid. And seriously you're confusing me. Are you saying that feeling sad over Osama being dead is stupid or feeling sad over deaths that he caused is stupid?
Um, the correlation between education and birth rate is a little more than somewhat valid. You think because you know an exception to it that it makes the overall statistic less true? I hate when people try to prove someone wrong by citing one specific case to the contrary. Yes, obviously just cause someone is educated and wealthy this doesn't mean they will never have lots of children. But it remains true regardless that poorer people tend to have more children than wealthier and more educated people do. You knowing an exceptional family just proves that there are exceptions to everything. So what?
Whaaaat? Yes, it is true that people are living longer than before, but we're not experiencing overwhelming population because of a low death rate as much as just a really really high birth rate.
It's kind of hard to kill someone as infamous as Osama bin Laden without anyone knowing about it.
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The CIA has confirmed that Al Qaeda has nuclear weapons. They said they were gonna detonate a nuke in Europe if Osama were to be captured or killed, and that they would unleash a "nuclear hell".
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I will readily believe however that they could get nuclear weapons considering how politically unstable Pakistan has become.
Of course he's a martyr to someone. It ain't hard being a martyr. Even if you secretly assassinated him and he went missing he could potentially be even more of a martyr cause now there is mystery around his death and he could become more of a legend if no one actually saw him die.
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He is not a martyr.
Yeah, it's not a figment of my imagination. I'm gonna take the word of the CIA on this one, even though I feel dirty all over in doing so.
http://icwnews.com/hot-news/1790/wikileaks-al-qaida-has-nuclear-weapons.html
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=31232
Believe what you want.
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They could easily detonate them in Europe without having to fire them. Less effective yes, but still awfully dangerous.
It's sort of eerie to think about how easily they could cross our southern border and into the country. That thing is like wide open door with a welcome mat. It'd be harder to get nuclear materials over here though unless they already have them, but that doesn't stop any other nasty forms of destruction.
I'd say at the least though we're bound to see more car bombings etc.
Edit: Well Mephy beat me to it with his article. I was thinking the border was weak.
Yeah, Al Qaeda might have weapons of mass destruction, sure they might use them. But i feel the timing of this was too convenient for the leaders of the European countries (and others aswell) to be a coinsidence. I might be paranoid, but i feel the biggest threat would be for us (citizens) to give up our freedom to be "protected" by a threat we can't be sure is even real.
Obama's birth certificate comes under fire, white house finally produces one, people start saying its fake. BAM, Osama is killed. BTW Elections are coming up.
It's not just in Europe that it was convenient.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
My problem with the second article is just that it's several years old. I know al-Qaeda cares a lot about theatrics and timed attacks, but it seems to me that if they had a nuclear weapon and could detonate they wouldn't wait on it just for the sake of making a grand gesture. Cause the longer you hold on to that weapon and wait to blow it up, the more likely something could go wrong with the plan. Either the network of people could disappear or be arrested or a number of other things, or in time the bomb itself could be discovered and disarmed for good. I'm just saying that I don't think they have the capability as of right now to do it or they would've done it already. Because if yo have that kind of power, you're not going to risk losing it later down the road. It's too much of an investment to wait on it just for the sake of theatrics.
Not that I'm saying still that it's totally improbable for them to get a working nuclear weapon. I'm just rather cynical that they do now.
Sorry I really don't subscribe to your conspiracy theory. You're claiming it seems that everyone knew exactly where he was all this time but just waited when it was politically best to take him out. This seems more likely to you than a failing and fragmented government in Pakistan hiding bin Laden all these years because some were either sympathetic to him or really really liked his money. I don't know....
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And just saying, that argument about it being a distraction from the economy could have been used if the news of Osama's death came at any point in the last three or so years, so its not really relevant.
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If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Yeah I could care less if he was born here or not personally, and I certainly don't like Trump.
*puts on tinfoil hat*
I just find it interesting this happens in the midst of all the other chaos going on in the last couple years which just seems to keep coming. Of course if you go looking for a conspiracy, you'll find one. So who knows.
*takes off tinfoil hat*
The only thing I do know is I do not trust everything the government says, any government. They have withheld enough in the past for me not to surrender unwavering trust to them.
I was actually going to post something to this effect.
You know, you could probably argue that the death of Obama's grandmother was "convenient" because it occurred the day before the election, he could use her to extract sympathy for votes or something.
"Oh, poor Obama. Maybe we should vote for him to make him feel better."
But, alas, that's too simple; that's thinking like a politician. You also need to understand that, given his position, would you not disclose information concerning the death of a notorious terrorist leader who caused the death of thousands in your own country that has left both social and economic scars on your country for years to come? Osama's damage runs deeper than just 3,000 innocent civilians and Americans have every right to despise this man and, albeit ill-mannered and childish, celebrate in the aftermath of his death.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
And after watching more news conferences before coming into work tonight, you may be right about the CIA actually having good intel on him.
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Al Quaeda still has a chain of command, most likely the second-in-command (whose name escapes me right now) will take charge of the group, and with the Bin Laden's death, I expect a serious backlash from them on the world (most likely America again) in the near future.
War on Terrorism isn't over yet.
And no, the war on terror will never be completely won. And I don't wish to understate the threat of terrorism, but just like the effort to fight it, so too does terrorism require a lot of money and energy and manpower. It has setbacks just like governments do. And terrorists constantly have to operate in secret where governments can openly fight them.
I'm not sure what my point is really. I'm just trying to say that yes we should still take terrorism seriously, but it doesn't have to affect our daily lives. Terrorists are far from being all powerful and they have to work hard every day too to keep terror going at least as much as governments have to work hard to fight them.
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