There was a bus driver that liked a status about gay people burning in hell. Should be fired in my opinion. Someone who has violent beliefs like that shouldn't be allowed to drive children around.
I'm fine people want to claim freedom of speech and that Chick-fil-a has a right to do this that and whatever. That's fine, but just admit you're a bigot. Hiding behind free speech and the bible is a sorry damn excuse. Just admit you're a closed minded homophobe and move on.
It's ridiculous the amount of people who claim they don't hate gay people or they still believe they have a right to get married but then turn around and say they're exercising free speech and protecting Chick-fil-a's right to deny service to whoever they want. No you're not. You're a bigot. Do I recognize their rights to do what they want with their company? Yeah if it's legal then whatever. It's shitty but you have to take the good and the bad when you have freedom. Am I defending them though? No because they don't need defended, it's a company. They made their choice, they can deal with it. This isn't about free speech, this is about them openly hating gay people. (not everyone who works there I'm sure, but the company leads)
So I'm not going to defend their right to do what they want with their company, it doesn't need to be defended, but if you want to take such a hateful controversial stance as a company, be prepared to deal with the backlash.
Still believe in everything I said back in that religious debate here, about respecting conservatives and trying to co-exist with them. But it's very, very hard right now. Because the sentiments do not seam at all mutual.
It gets much harder with age, in my opinion. I was perfectly happy to fly under the radar in my youth and even when I came out of the closet to friends and family I kept out of the social/political reform scene for a long time. Unfortunately there's only so much grief you can take before you simply have to push back. Living in the south I've seen that proud bigotry for years and this Chicken grief is nothing new, just more visible to the rest of the world.
When I grew up here, everyone jsut pretended to be straight while they were growing up. Then years later, when I started reconnecting with people online and stuff, it turned out that several of my classmates were lesbian and gay. And they are all like "I don't know how you can stand to live there and be out." And I always say its a nice community and I feel very welcome, and that its not like it was when we were growing up.
I was never confronted in my little home town either, despite the fact that many people I knew there spoke quite openly about my loathsome existence behind my back. I think most of the bigots are quite timid due to the fact they probably know some or are related to some gay individuals.
There was a bus driver that liked a status about gay people burning in hell. Should be fired in my opinion. Someone who has violent beliefs like that shouldn't be allowed to drive children around.
I'm sure it would be protected as free speech, although cases are free speech are often decided arbitrarily.
I'm fine people want to claim freedom of speech and that Chick-fil-a has a right to do this that and whatever. That's fine, but just admit you're a bigot. Hiding behind free speech and the bible is a sorry damn excuse. Just admit you're a closed minded homophobe and move on.
It's ridiculous the amount of people who claim they don't hate gay people or they still believe they have a right to get married but then turn around and say they're exercising free speech and protecting Chick-fil-a's right to deny service to whoever they want. No you're not. You're a bigot. Do I recognize their rights to do what they want with their company? Yeah if it's legal then whatever. It's shitty but you have to take the good and the bad when you have freedom. Am I defending them though? No because they don't need defended, it's a company. They made their choice, they can deal with it. This isn't about free speech, this is about them openly hating gay people. (not everyone who works there I'm sure, but the company leads)
As I said, they're timid bigots. Any opportunity to re-direct their blatantly obvious and unreasonably hatred into something politically correct is wonderful to them. At this point they can spin any blow-back as religious persecution and tap into the age-old christian martyrdom theme that they so love to bring up. It's terribly ironic since I can't recall a christian being fired for his or her beliefs in my lifetime, but homosexuals (myself included) have lost gainful employment, promotions, and many other opportunities for our genetic happenstance.
So I'm not going to defend their right to do what they want with their company, it doesn't need to be defended, but if you want to take such a hateful controversial stance as a company, be prepared to deal with the backlash.
It appears that half the country actually likes the move enough to cancel out the few customers they lost. If the move to block them from having restaurants built in certain areas becomes more popular, they'll probably appeal to the courts and win since governments cannot legally discriminate against companies for their religious views. Funny isn't it?
It appears that half the country actually likes the move enough to cancel out the few customers they lost. If the move to block them from having restaurants built in certain areas becomes more popular, they'll probably appeal to the courts and win since governments cannot legally discriminate against companies for their religious views. Funny isn't it?
No not funny, I know what context you are referring to though
As a straight person I find it flattering when gay men hit on me, their standards are better than woman. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Oh that reminds me, there was a provincial election here a couple of months ago and one guy running was a pastor who openly attacked the gay community. Someone spray painted bigot on his political sign on the main street by the church it was quite funny; when I came home from work the sign was replaced . Overall he did very poorly in riding even though the party was favoured to win.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Once this all blows over though I have a feeling the gay haters will go back to eating at a multitude of places like they always have and gay people will stay away from Chick-fil-a all together. I don't see this actually helping their business in the long run. I don't see many people strictly eating at Chick-fil-a just because they're against gays. People are going to eat where ever they want, the only people who are going to remember and say no thanks are the gay community, so they'll probably lose a portion of their consumer base, even it is or isn't a smaller one.Popeyes Chicken tastes better anyways.
I'm convinced that behind the bigotry and the religious believes there's a profound fear of change, it happened here in 2010 when we legalized gay marriage and same sex couples adoption (the first couple adopted a baby boy yesterday). All the protests, and propaganda against same sex marriage and shit, but the law passed and society didn't colapse and now people just don't care anymore, last year we passed a gender identity law (so people can change their gender without need of a judge's approval and so public hospitals do the interventions and private health care companies are forced to include it into the benefits of basic plans) and nobody said anything, yeah some priests said it was an abomination and whatnot, but nobody cared, it was weird. Now I can't have my gay angst anymore, we've become mainstream
So yeah, I think is just fear of change, but eventually same sex marriage will be legal everywhere and nothing will happen... like everybody already know
Chick Filet's (I'm not spelling it the way they do!) CEO is fucking brilliant to be honest. I've never eaten there before and lately all I can think about is how I want to go get a sandwich there and how somehow the two pickles on it really does sound way good to me.
The only thing that offends me about all this is how lazy people have used it as a way to be political. They go eat a fucking chicken sandwich (which they'd do on any given day) and now suddenly they're showing their support for the anti-gay marriage agenda. Good for you, chicken eaters!
Chick Filet's (I'm not spelling it the way they do!) CEO is fucking brilliant to be honest. I've never eaten there before and lately all I can think about is how I want to go get a sandwich there and how somehow the two pickles on it really does sound way good to me.
The only thing that offends me about all this is how lazy people have used it as a way to be political. They go eat a fucking chicken sandwich (which they'd do on any given day) and now suddenly they're showing their support for the anti-gay marriage agenda. Good for you, chicken eaters!
I've heard a few people actually say they want to eat chicken after this publicity (not in a joking way either).
Chick-fil-a is alright. I personally don't want pickles anywhere near my fucking chicken. It's gross.
You guys know what would be hilarious? If the FDA found some major issue with Chick fil a that made them close down for a week or something. I'd laugh my ass off.
Also, there is still one chick fil a I will eat at. The only one in New Hampshire. The manager there is supporting a Pro-Gay-Rights rally, saying that his chick fil a will " treat every person with honor, dignity and respect -- regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender."
@Daemaro I've only eaten there about 3 times ever, so my boycotting them won't effect them much. LOL! But, I do remember I had the same feeling about pickle and chicken as a combination. It actually turned out to be fairly good though, I have to admit. Back to what you said earlier, about the long term effects of the boycott - I think you are right. These idiots are gloating about how they negated the boycott. But it's one damn day. They have a very narrow menu focus, so its not really the kind of place you can eat everyday. I think they will lose more business than they gained, in the long term. Also, chicken day for conservatives in the bible belt is Sunday. KFC and Lee's are packed after church. Chik-fil-a can't tap into that market because they refuse to open.
@LinkX I heard about the New Hampshire thing. I bet Cathy is so pissed.
@nacho_ljp I'm not sure where you live, but that sounds refreshing. I was feeling optimistic about things in the US until this. Suddenly feeling outnumbered and scared for the future. I guess what I don't get, is why anyone feels the need to legislate aspects of their subjective morality and force it on people who don't believe in it. Nothing should be ilegal unless it can be determined objectively that giving that right infringes on someone else's. In short, how is anyone fucking arrogant enough to feel justified in telling me who I can and can not marry?
I can't get around that mind set. I don't care what anyone does, if it isn't hurting someone else.
I'll shut up about this now. As much as there is wrong in the world, this is all pretty minor. The turn out was just a bit shocking, and that is what made it feel significant to me. But I know this many days later, most really aren't wanting to hear about it anymore. LOL
@Proletaria I've been saying all week.. this particular brand of intolerant christianity is losing a lot of support over time. Most young people right now don't buy into. In fact, they have tried to push their views on people so much, that they are often now percieved as threatening. They have set a very bad example for how someone with majority status should behave over the last several decades. When the shoe is on the other foot, no one is going to care about their rights. Karma will eventually kick their ass. LOL
No, I'm not bashing the gay community. If they want to get married and face the same marriage problems like the rest of us, I'm fine with that. I don't even care if they bring up sex, just please don't go into details. I've even had a drink with a gay guy when I was on a cruise earlier this year.
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Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
I've been trying to get into Dungeons & Dragons again but I am having a difficult time finding a group. I'm just waiting and hoping that someone responds to the message I posted on my local Pathfinder Facebook group. I have a backup plan but I already bought the Pathfinder Core Rulebook for $57.00. It would be such a shame to have to let that go to waste.
No, I'm not bashing the gay community. If they want to get married and face the same marriage problems like the rest of us, I'm fine with that.
I'm not sure if you already know this, but most of us have been "married," for years. The problem is that our states don't recognize the unions. We're familiar with marital issues. I'm sure it was a fascinating conversation you had on that cruise. Hopefully you weren't operating under the assumption every gay individual leads a life of bachelorhood indefinitely.
At first, I felt that this whole Chick-Fil-A controversy was manufactured; the CEO was asked for an opinion and he gave it. After I realized that his company also works to provide means for restricting the progress of the LGBT community, I began to feel a little animosity towards him. I don't feel that he should be vilified for his opinion, but he should be vilified for willingly giving money to organizations that work to hurt the community. I'm kind of glad now that this has been brought to the attention of people, but I really don't like the attitudes surrounding the whole thing.
When we start chastising people merely for their opinion, we are stooping to an unforgivable level; the best thing would be to put the opinion behind us because, honestly, it's just the opinion of one man. I am not a homosexual and I obviously don't know how it feels to be told that one of the things you want most is to directly defy a god you may or may not pray to; I imagine it's the worst kind of slap in the face. Though, the man wasn't militant about his opinion and, for that, I feel obligated to step back. I feel like the media set him up for failure simply for thinking something and they took that, ran with it, and manufactured a controversy. The media likes to watch people fall and what better spectacle than to watch a CEO of a highly successful company be vilified simply for his opinion.
"How could he say that? What a terrible person."
"You know I'm never eating there again."
Not buying a chicken sandwich hardly solves anything. You can't expect to make a difference due to inaction. That strategy only works if you were ignorant to his opinions in the first place because then he would lose sales. The people who go to Chick-Fil-A on a regular basis will probably still go and, if you haven't gone before, he really isn't losing much. The boycott is an almost asinine idea because it hardly solves anything. I'm sure he knew that he would catch some flack for his opinion and the boycott will not change his mind. The boycott won't make him stop donating to the organizations which seek to hurt the LGBT community. The boycott hardly solves anything. I feel kind of sad that Americans feel that simply not buying a product will solve anything; that worked back in, you know, the 18th century when trade between two countries was a very delicate thing, but not spending $10 on a meal and expecting that to make a difference is completely foolish and shortsighted. If anything, you should donate $10 to pro-LGBT organizations to tip the balance of influence in your favor. Chicken sandwiches don't have any influence.
In my opinion, I'd just leave the guy alone and let this pass. I've no doubt that people will forget about this in about a month.
I doubt I'll ever eat at Chick-Fil-A anyway. There aren't any in the Pacific Northwest. I find that a little peculiar because Seattle and Portland are very liberal places and there are Chick-Fil-A restaurants by the tens of dozens dotting the Bible Belt (especially Georgia, holy shit). If that is the wish of the CEO, then that's fine with me. I'm not going to fund those hurtful organizations with my purchase, but I'm not going to crucify this guy simply for his opinion.
So walk with your chin up. The LGBT community has come a far way. The best thing to do would to help those who help you because doing nothing (like refusing to buy a chicken sandwich) doesn't help anybody.
/ my two cents
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
I don't feel that he should be vilified for his opinion, but he should be vilified for willingly giving money to organizations that work to hurt the community.
I think his opinions are just as caustic as his actions, because one necessarily begets the other. Freedom of speech makes his bigotry perfectly legal, but that does not make it any less socially retrograde. If a restaurant owner had professed to being an anti-Semite there would be a far greater back-lash. We, as a society, decided long ago that antisemitism, while legal, is not socially acceptable. The fact they are literally campaigning against the civil rights of other Americans just adds insult to injury.
When we start chastising people merely for their opinion, we are stooping to an unforgivable level; the best thing would be to put the opinion behind us because, honestly, it's just the opinion of one man. I am not a homosexual and I obviously don't know how it feels to be told that one of the things you want most is to directly defy a god you may or may not pray to; I imagine it's the worst kind of slap in the face. Though, the man wasn't militant about his opinion and, for that, I feel obligated to step back. I feel like the media set him up for failure simply for thinking something and they took that, ran with it, and manufactured a controversy. The media likes to watch people fall and what better spectacle than to watch a CEO of a highly successful company be vilified simply for his opinion.
I know you have a very hard time putting yourself in our shoes, but you must not bend to the conservative mantra that all opinions are equally valid. He was not "set up," by the media. Conservatives of his stripe LOVE to give their opinions on this kind of thing. Their agenda is not a secret and their opinion is nothing less than militant. I would argue the media has done much less than it could to help bring this kind of bigotry to the forefront in our society. Like racial segregation before it, homophobia is a completely baseless form of defaming and holding down an otherwise productive member of society.
"How could he say that? What a terrible person."
"You know I'm never eating there again."
Believe it or not those are rational responses. Yes, he may also be a wonderful family man. He might even give money to some charity and be a fruitful CEO. Bigots across history have been very virtuous in other parts of their life. Very few are remembered solely for their intolerance because it takes quite a stir for it to define them. That does not mean; however, we should simply ignore the awful truth about their opinions and the damage it causes to the lives of many others. People not doing business with a company is the only way to really express their own dislike in this case.
Not buying a chicken sandwich hardly solves anything. You can't expect to make a difference due to inaction. That strategy only works if you were ignorant to his opinions in the first place because then he would lose sales. [...]If anything, you should donate $10 to pro-LGBT organizations to tip the balance of influence in your favor. Chicken sandwiches don't have any influence.
The two are not mutually exclusive. Someone who cares about the welfare of the oppressed gay community would do both.
So walk with your chin up. The LGBT community has come a far way. The best thing to do would to help those who help you because doing nothing (like refusing to buy a chicken sandwich) doesn't help anybody.
/ my two cents
I hope at some point you realize just how patronizing that sounds to us. Please do not use that kind of language when speaking to any homosexual friends you might have in real life. The struggle for civil rights doesn't fight itself. If you don't think that deliberately avoiding homophobic companies is worth your time, that is fine, but do not try to convince the rest of us we're wasting our time and effort. We know what is at stake and we care enough to do everything in our power to make our voices heard.
I offered an alternative to the boycott and not doing anything else. I didn't say that the boycott was a bad idea; I said that participating in the boycott and doing nothing else is foolish. The whole point of the "chicken sandwiches have no influence" was to show that he is hardly going to feel any remorse simply because someone doesn't buy a sandwich; he's a CEO of a company with half a thousand locations that get business daily.
I wholeheartedly believe that there is far more you can do to support LGBT than just participating in the boycott. I'm the sort of guy who believes there can always be more done. When I heard about the boycott, I felt that it couldn't possibly be enough and I was against it not because I favored Chick-Fil-A (because I most definitely don't), but because I felt that that's only what people would do. I was arguing that people should do more. Avoid homophobic politicians, write your congressmen to vote against homophobic bills, and most definitely stray away from companies that hurt the community with the money they get. There is definitely an anti-LGBT machine out there and a big part of it is in the Bible Belt.
I've always loved the idea of passing an amendment that allows for gay marriage and I think that more people should take more active strides towards making that happen. I understand that boycotting Chick-Fil-A can be effective based on principle alone; I just wanted people to do more. I just didn't want people to think that that's all they could do because there's far more that you can and should do.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
I offered an alternative to the boycott and not doing anything else. I didn't say that the boycott was a bad idea; I said that participating in the boycott and doing nothing else is foolish. The whole point of the "chicken sandwiches have no influence" was to show that he is hardly going to feel any remorse simply because someone doesn't buy a sandwich; he's a CEO of a company with half a thousand locations that get business daily.
And I simply countered that doing something is always worthwhile, even if it is denying a trivial amount of business to a fortune 500 company.
I wholeheartedly believe that there is far more you can do to support LGBT than just participating in the boycott. I'm the sort of guy who believes there can always be more done. When I heard about the boycott, I felt that it couldn't possibly be enough and I was against it not because I favored Chick-Fil-A (because I most definitely don't), but because I felt that that's only what people would do. I was arguing that people should do more. Avoid homophobic politicians, write your congressmen to vote against homophobic bills, and most definitely stray away from companies that hurt the community with the money they get. There is definitely an anti-LGBT machine out there and a big part of it is in the Bible Belt.
People should do more, assuming they care, but every little bit counts. I agree that it would be wonderful to see more people show up at rallies, write letters to their congressional representatives and senators, or donate money to our organizations, but at the end of the day I must live with the realization that not everyone has the time, money, etc. to go so far. If they can be vocal about their disdain of bigoted companies and deny them business, but can't help in any other way, more power to them. I won't belittle anyone's contribution or the media hype it generates. As you said, there is a very powerful lobby to fight here in the south and every little bit helps.
I've always loved the idea of passing an amendment that allows for gay marriage and I think that more people should take more active strides towards making that happen. I understand that boycotting Chick-Fil-A can be effective based on principle alone; I just wanted people to do more. I just didn't want people to think that that's all they could do because there's far more that you can and should do.
I don't think anyone is under the illusion that is all they can possibly do. I'm very active with local LGBT groups in my area and you really can't find a local resident(hetero or otherwise) who hasn't heard or seen some of our work. The stigma down here is strong enough that most strait people simply won't be caught openly supporting gay rights. It's quite sad, but indicative of the strangle-hold bigot Christians have on both the public and private sector. As I said, if they can make even a small contribution by choosing to avoid one restaurant: they have my thanks.
TL;DR: I disagree that not giving them business or propagating a media campaign against avowed bigot organizations constitutes not being helpful to the gay community. Yes, there is always more to be done, but I will take any support I can get. I may be gay and proud, but I am not too proud to turn down a media stunt in my favor.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, proletaria, but I don't care enough to do anything more than deny them my business. Maybe not care isn't the right way to phrase it. What I mean is there are a lot of causes I care equally about but I also care more about my family and my own financial stability and well being. It's not that I don't agree homosexuals should have a right to get married, I just don't really have a dog in the fight. Also I don't really have the funds to make constant donations, and there are a lot of causes I'd like to donate to or protest for so if I did what you're suggesting Azriel I'd be broke in no time. Agreeing to just not eat there anymore may not be a grand gesture but it's something I can do for free and with relative ease. I can just go across the street and eat at another chicken place. Sure it may not bring the company to its knees if people only boycott it, and the company isn't even the underlying problem here, it's people like the CEO of the company, but even if it helps make a dent in their business hopefully they'll realize why.
Long story short, I have too little time and money to donate to and protest for every cause I want to, so this is the least I can do. I believe battles are won bit by bit, it's not all or nothing.
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Wise ElderI'm fine people want to claim freedom of speech and that Chick-fil-a has a right to do this that and whatever. That's fine, but just admit you're a bigot. Hiding behind free speech and the bible is a sorry damn excuse. Just admit you're a closed minded homophobe and move on.
It's ridiculous the amount of people who claim they don't hate gay people or they still believe they have a right to get married but then turn around and say they're exercising free speech and protecting Chick-fil-a's right to deny service to whoever they want. No you're not. You're a bigot. Do I recognize their rights to do what they want with their company? Yeah if it's legal then whatever. It's shitty but you have to take the good and the bad when you have freedom. Am I defending them though? No because they don't need defended, it's a company. They made their choice, they can deal with it. This isn't about free speech, this is about them openly hating gay people. (not everyone who works there I'm sure, but the company leads)
So I'm not going to defend their right to do what they want with their company, it doesn't need to be defended, but if you want to take such a hateful controversial stance as a company, be prepared to deal with the backlash.
It gets much harder with age, in my opinion. I was perfectly happy to fly under the radar in my youth and even when I came out of the closet to friends and family I kept out of the social/political reform scene for a long time. Unfortunately there's only so much grief you can take before you simply have to push back. Living in the south I've seen that proud bigotry for years and this Chicken grief is nothing new, just more visible to the rest of the world.
I was never confronted in my little home town either, despite the fact that many people I knew there spoke quite openly about my loathsome existence behind my back. I think most of the bigots are quite timid due to the fact they probably know some or are related to some gay individuals.
I'm sure it would be protected as free speech, although cases are free speech are often decided arbitrarily.
As I said, they're timid bigots. Any opportunity to re-direct their blatantly obvious and unreasonably hatred into something politically correct is wonderful to them. At this point they can spin any blow-back as religious persecution and tap into the age-old christian martyrdom theme that they so love to bring up. It's terribly ironic since I can't recall a christian being fired for his or her beliefs in my lifetime, but homosexuals (myself included) have lost gainful employment, promotions, and many other opportunities for our genetic happenstance.
It appears that half the country actually likes the move enough to cancel out the few customers they lost. If the move to block them from having restaurants built in certain areas becomes more popular, they'll probably appeal to the courts and win since governments cannot legally discriminate against companies for their religious views. Funny isn't it?
No not funny, I know what context you are referring to though
As a straight person I find it flattering when gay men hit on me, their standards are better than woman. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Oh that reminds me, there was a provincial election here a couple of months ago and one guy running was a pastor who openly attacked the gay community. Someone spray painted bigot on his political sign on the main street by the church it was quite funny; when I came home from work the sign was replaced
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Wise ElderSo yeah, I think is just fear of change, but eventually same sex marriage will be legal everywhere and nothing will happen... like everybody already know
The only thing that offends me about all this is how lazy people have used it as a way to be political. They go eat a fucking chicken sandwich (which they'd do on any given day) and now suddenly they're showing their support for the anti-gay marriage agenda. Good for you, chicken eaters!
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Wise ElderI've heard a few people actually say they want to eat chicken after this publicity (not in a joking way either).
Chick-fil-a is alright. I personally don't want pickles anywhere near my fucking chicken. It's gross.
Also, there is still one chick fil a I will eat at. The only one in New Hampshire. The manager there is supporting a Pro-Gay-Rights rally, saying that his chick fil a will " treat every person with honor, dignity and respect -- regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender."
Mad respect to that manager.
@LinkX I heard about the New Hampshire thing. I bet Cathy is so pissed.
@nacho_ljp I'm not sure where you live, but that sounds refreshing. I was feeling optimistic about things in the US until this. Suddenly feeling outnumbered and scared for the future. I guess what I don't get, is why anyone feels the need to legislate aspects of their subjective morality and force it on people who don't believe in it. Nothing should be ilegal unless it can be determined objectively that giving that right infringes on someone else's. In short, how is anyone fucking arrogant enough to feel justified in telling me who I can and can not marry?
I can't get around that mind set. I don't care what anyone does, if it isn't hurting someone else.
I'll shut up about this now. As much as there is wrong in the world, this is all pretty minor. The turn out was just a bit shocking, and that is what made it feel significant to me. But I know this many days later, most really aren't wanting to hear about it anymore. LOL
@Proletaria I've been saying all week.. this particular brand of intolerant christianity is losing a lot of support over time. Most young people right now don't buy into. In fact, they have tried to push their views on people so much, that they are often now percieved as threatening. They have set a very bad example for how someone with majority status should behave over the last several decades. When the shoe is on the other foot, no one is going to care about their rights. Karma will eventually kick their ass. LOL
No, I'm not bashing the gay community. If they want to get married and face the same marriage problems like the rest of us, I'm fine with that. I don't even care if they bring up sex, just please don't go into details. I've even had a drink with a gay guy when I was on a cruise earlier this year.
I'm from Argentina btw
I'm not sure if you already know this, but most of us have been "married," for years. The problem is that our states don't recognize the unions. We're familiar with marital issues. I'm sure it was a fascinating conversation you had on that cruise. Hopefully you weren't operating under the assumption every gay individual leads a life of bachelorhood indefinitely.
When we start chastising people merely for their opinion, we are stooping to an unforgivable level; the best thing would be to put the opinion behind us because, honestly, it's just the opinion of one man. I am not a homosexual and I obviously don't know how it feels to be told that one of the things you want most is to directly defy a god you may or may not pray to; I imagine it's the worst kind of slap in the face. Though, the man wasn't militant about his opinion and, for that, I feel obligated to step back. I feel like the media set him up for failure simply for thinking something and they took that, ran with it, and manufactured a controversy. The media likes to watch people fall and what better spectacle than to watch a CEO of a highly successful company be vilified simply for his opinion.
"How could he say that? What a terrible person."
"You know I'm never eating there again."
Not buying a chicken sandwich hardly solves anything. You can't expect to make a difference due to inaction. That strategy only works if you were ignorant to his opinions in the first place because then he would lose sales. The people who go to Chick-Fil-A on a regular basis will probably still go and, if you haven't gone before, he really isn't losing much. The boycott is an almost asinine idea because it hardly solves anything. I'm sure he knew that he would catch some flack for his opinion and the boycott will not change his mind. The boycott won't make him stop donating to the organizations which seek to hurt the LGBT community. The boycott hardly solves anything. I feel kind of sad that Americans feel that simply not buying a product will solve anything; that worked back in, you know, the 18th century when trade between two countries was a very delicate thing, but not spending $10 on a meal and expecting that to make a difference is completely foolish and shortsighted. If anything, you should donate $10 to pro-LGBT organizations to tip the balance of influence in your favor. Chicken sandwiches don't have any influence.
In my opinion, I'd just leave the guy alone and let this pass. I've no doubt that people will forget about this in about a month.
I doubt I'll ever eat at Chick-Fil-A anyway. There aren't any in the Pacific Northwest. I find that a little peculiar because Seattle and Portland are very liberal places and there are Chick-Fil-A restaurants by the tens of dozens dotting the Bible Belt (especially Georgia, holy shit). If that is the wish of the CEO, then that's fine with me. I'm not going to fund those hurtful organizations with my purchase, but I'm not going to crucify this guy simply for his opinion.
So walk with your chin up. The LGBT community has come a far way. The best thing to do would to help those who help you because doing nothing (like refusing to buy a chicken sandwich) doesn't help anybody.
/ my two cents
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
I think his opinions are just as caustic as his actions, because one necessarily begets the other. Freedom of speech makes his bigotry perfectly legal, but that does not make it any less socially retrograde. If a restaurant owner had professed to being an anti-Semite there would be a far greater back-lash. We, as a society, decided long ago that antisemitism, while legal, is not socially acceptable. The fact they are literally campaigning against the civil rights of other Americans just adds insult to injury.
I know you have a very hard time putting yourself in our shoes, but you must not bend to the conservative mantra that all opinions are equally valid. He was not "set up," by the media. Conservatives of his stripe LOVE to give their opinions on this kind of thing. Their agenda is not a secret and their opinion is nothing less than militant. I would argue the media has done much less than it could to help bring this kind of bigotry to the forefront in our society. Like racial segregation before it, homophobia is a completely baseless form of defaming and holding down an otherwise productive member of society.
Believe it or not those are rational responses. Yes, he may also be a wonderful family man. He might even give money to some charity and be a fruitful CEO. Bigots across history have been very virtuous in other parts of their life. Very few are remembered solely for their intolerance because it takes quite a stir for it to define them. That does not mean; however, we should simply ignore the awful truth about their opinions and the damage it causes to the lives of many others. People not doing business with a company is the only way to really express their own dislike in this case.
The two are not mutually exclusive. Someone who cares about the welfare of the oppressed gay community would do both.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
I hope at some point you realize just how patronizing that sounds to us. Please do not use that kind of language when speaking to any homosexual friends you might have in real life. The struggle for civil rights doesn't fight itself. If you don't think that deliberately avoiding homophobic companies is worth your time, that is fine, but do not try to convince the rest of us we're wasting our time and effort. We know what is at stake and we care enough to do everything in our power to make our voices heard.
I wholeheartedly believe that there is far more you can do to support LGBT than just participating in the boycott. I'm the sort of guy who believes there can always be more done. When I heard about the boycott, I felt that it couldn't possibly be enough and I was against it not because I favored Chick-Fil-A (because I most definitely don't), but because I felt that that's only what people would do. I was arguing that people should do more. Avoid homophobic politicians, write your congressmen to vote against homophobic bills, and most definitely stray away from companies that hurt the community with the money they get. There is definitely an anti-LGBT machine out there and a big part of it is in the Bible Belt.
I've always loved the idea of passing an amendment that allows for gay marriage and I think that more people should take more active strides towards making that happen. I understand that boycotting Chick-Fil-A can be effective based on principle alone; I just wanted people to do more. I just didn't want people to think that that's all they could do because there's far more that you can and should do.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
And I simply countered that doing something is always worthwhile, even if it is denying a trivial amount of business to a fortune 500 company.
People should do more, assuming they care, but every little bit counts. I agree that it would be wonderful to see more people show up at rallies, write letters to their congressional representatives and senators, or donate money to our organizations, but at the end of the day I must live with the realization that not everyone has the time, money, etc. to go so far. If they can be vocal about their disdain of bigoted companies and deny them business, but can't help in any other way, more power to them. I won't belittle anyone's contribution or the media hype it generates. As you said, there is a very powerful lobby to fight here in the south and every little bit helps.
I don't think anyone is under the illusion that is all they can possibly do. I'm very active with local LGBT groups in my area and you really can't find a local resident(hetero or otherwise) who hasn't heard or seen some of our work. The stigma down here is strong enough that most strait people simply won't be caught openly supporting gay rights. It's quite sad, but indicative of the strangle-hold bigot Christians have on both the public and private sector. As I said, if they can make even a small contribution by choosing to avoid one restaurant: they have my thanks.
TL;DR: I disagree that not giving them business or propagating a media campaign against avowed bigot organizations constitutes not being helpful to the gay community. Yes, there is always more to be done, but I will take any support I can get. I may be gay and proud, but I am not too proud to turn down a media stunt in my favor.
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Wise ElderLong story short, I have too little time and money to donate to and protest for every cause I want to, so this is the least I can do. I believe battles are won bit by bit, it's not all or nothing.