Quick question to those who are very knowledgeable about the finer points of the build.
When selecting a MH weapon, high DPS, slow weapon speed is key, as this translates to boost skill modifiers based on weapon damage - i.e. Sprint.
Now, how exactly is the "based on xx%" weapon damage calculated based on your weapon? Do they take the DPS? do they take the maximum weapon damage? averaging max and min? Do they factor in all values not including attack speed? or is weapon increased attack speed factored in as well?
I ask this as I am currently trying to decide between higher DPS i.e. 1200 1h maces with 8+ % IAS, or 11xx 1h maces with 0% IAS (Yes, both contain sockets). Right now I seem to be unable to find a spreadsheet designed specifically to simulate WWSprint barb action. (Any help on this front would be particularly helpful too!)
Thanks in advanced.
EDIT: I suppose this applies to all Weapon DMG skill questions for any class?
Actually, it seems like sprint goes by DPS (similar to whirlwind), however it is messed up and uses your main hand damage with the speed of your currently active weapon. So if you are dual-wielding and whirlwind (thus alternating weapons), some of the time it will use your main hand DPS, and the rest of the time it will use your main hand damage with your offhand speed. Therefore a slow main hand would increase the damage your sprint does, and so will a fast offhand. Since only main hand weapon damage is used, offhand can have low damage as long as it comes with good stats (life on hit, crit damage, socket for more crit damage).
A spreadsheet isn't easy to create because there are too many variables that are hard to predict. Though I suppose a rough calculation could be made if one would insist, but eventually if you want the best damage for your gold (unless you have enough gold to buy the best weapon in the game), you will obviously get it with a mace that has no attack speed on it. And if you aren't super-rich settle for just a socket or just crit damage rather than both.
Sure, whirlwind uses both weapons as you would normally expect, but sprint is the real damage dealer with this build - Whirlwind is just a bonus.
Actually, it seems like sprint goes by DPS (similar to whirlwind), however it is messed up and uses your main hand damage with the speed of your currently active weapon. So if you are dual-wielding and whirlwind (thus alternating weapons), some of the time it will use your main hand DPS, and the rest of the time it will use your main hand damage with your offhand speed. Therefore a slow main hand would increase the damage your sprint does, and so will a fast offhand. Since only main hand weapon damage is used, offhand can have low damage as long as it comes with good stats (life on hit, crit damage, socket for more crit damage).
A spreadsheet isn't easy to create because there are too many variables that are hard to predict. Though I suppose a rough calculation could be made if one would insist, but eventually if you want the best damage for your gold (unless you have enough gold to buy the best weapon in the game), you will obviously get it with a mace that has no attack speed on it. And if you aren't super-rich settle for just a socket or just crit damage rather than both.
Sure, whirlwind uses both weapons as you would normally expect, but sprint is the real damage dealer with this build - Whirlwind is just a bonus.
My question has been largely answered by this response.
To supplement, I have found out that IAS on the weapon itself does not affect "xx% weapon damage" calculation on respective skills. Hence purely looking at weapons in terms of raw DPS is inaccurate for maximising skills with damage based on weapon damage.
A better effective measurement is to calculate what output the weapon would yield without the IAS included. i.e. calculating the average of the total (incl. elemental dmg, min/max dmg, other dmg modifiers) and using that as a rough estimate when comparing weapons.
Quick question to those who are very knowledgeable about the finer points of the build.
When selecting a MH weapon, high DPS, slow weapon speed is key, as this translates to boost skill modifiers based on weapon damage - i.e. Sprint.
Now, how exactly is the "based on xx%" weapon damage calculated based on your weapon? Do they take the DPS? do they take the maximum weapon damage? averaging max and min? Do they factor in all values not including attack speed? or is weapon increased attack speed factored in as well?
I ask this as I am currently trying to decide between higher DPS i.e. 1200 1h maces with 8+ % IAS, or 11xx 1h maces with 0% IAS (Yes, both contain sockets). Right now I seem to be unable to find a spreadsheet designed specifically to simulate WWSprint barb action. (Any help on this front would be particularly helpful too!)
Thanks in advanced.
EDIT: I suppose this applies to all Weapon DMG skill questions for any class?
Your mainhand determines the tornado damage, your general attack speed determines the number of "ticks" your tornados does.
This means that your attack speed does effect your tornado damage since you get more hits with them per second.
Go by DPS when buying a main hand don't settle for a lower DPS weapon just because its slower.
Quick question to those who are very knowledgeable about the finer points of the build.
When selecting a MH weapon, high DPS, slow weapon speed is key, as this translates to boost skill modifiers based on weapon damage - i.e. Sprint.
Now, how exactly is the "based on xx%" weapon damage calculated based on your weapon? Do they take the DPS? do they take the maximum weapon damage? averaging max and min? Do they factor in all values not including attack speed? or is weapon increased attack speed factored in as well?
I ask this as I am currently trying to decide between higher DPS i.e. 1200 1h maces with 8+ % IAS, or 11xx 1h maces with 0% IAS (Yes, both contain sockets). Right now I seem to be unable to find a spreadsheet designed specifically to simulate WWSprint barb action. (Any help on this front would be particularly helpful too!)
Thanks in advanced.
EDIT: I suppose this applies to all Weapon DMG skill questions for any class?
Your mainhand determines the tornado damage, your general attack speed determines the number of "ticks" your tornados do.
This means that your attack speed does effect your tornado damage since you get more hits with them per second.
Go by DPS when buying a main hand don't settle for a lower DPS weapon just because its slower.
I had considered that fact. However, referencing the first reply to my original post - the MH weapon damage is used quite frequently with your OH weapon speed when utilising attacks such as WW (working as intended or glitch who knows). This piece of information is further supported by any one of Kripp's WWbarb tutorial vids. If this is the case, you would actually lose overall DPS by picking a weapon with inherent IAS on it. (A bigger discrepancy in weapon speeds between OH and MH would yield better results).
However, I guess it should be noted that Sprint does constitute ~80% of overall DPS, so it might still be the better option to go with your suggestion of going by raw displayed weapon DPS.
Yes you're right, IAS on Mainhand is of no use for Sprint damage. Only DPS on your Mainhand matters, and the Stats of your Offhand.
So normally Crag Hammers or Demolishers are the best MH Weapons for this build.
But I want to make another consideration. When using Weapon Master passive (what is normally included in this build) and you have enough crit (35%+) without a Mace/Axe you should definitely try a Mighty Weapon. The increased fury generation from a Mighty Weapon with Weapon Master is just freakin awesome. I switched to it yesterday cause I had luck with crafting a Massacre Axe and thought I give it a try. The increased fury generation let you use WW more often, esp when you have very luck as I had and got +15 max fury on my weapon and thus put out more overall damage. Second advantage is that you can keep up Sprint more easily and thus make your farm runs even faster in areas with low monster density.
So for pure Sprint Damage High Damage Maces are best, but to make real use of the synergies of this build a mighty weapon yields more overall damage in my tests.
A valid point, however, consider these following counters. (Note that this is only specific to my build and gear, response mileage may vary with other readers)
Fury generation per hit - I have two things to say to this, the first is that I use Bash - Instigation, instead of leap which I understand to be a common alternative. Hence in terms of generation when mobs are not nearby, bash serves most purposes on perpetuating Fury generation for sprints on destructibles. Secondly, in conjunction to your response on being able to use WW more often. I currently have 53.5% crit chance hence, in most cases, I am able to maintain appropriate generation to have 95%+ WW uptime, in conjunction to sprinting around a single target mob. Thus I'm not so sure that I would yield a small if any overall damage if I took your suggestions.
Following onto your point, I am lead to believe that the reason why most people switch to fury weapons is due to the fact that they kill mobs in too few hits (too high spreadsheet DPS) to generate adequate fury off of them to maintain sprint. Hence the switch is to a mighty weapon is mainly used to maintain suitable fury levels, while relatively little damage output. Also, the fury weapon is there to supplement the WotB - Thrive on Chaos rune to achieve as high uptime on berserker as possible. If you're interested in seeing this particular WWSprint barb build variation put to on show. Kripp has a great video where he clears A3 with really high uptime:
I think most people only do this when they have a great amount of DPS to not be able to get the full benefits of sprinting past trash mobs and refreshing a full fury meter. (I'm ballparking approx 80k+)
Equip a slow weapon in MH, then a fast weapon, most likely a dagger in OH.
Open your character details, hold shift and left click. You'll notice that the "attacks per second" will change depending on which weapon is to be used next.
With that in mind, basically what happens is that each swing will have a different time.
Now, lets say you equip a dagger in OH, you'll have 1.25 attacks per second lets say with the MH as next weapon, not the dagger. Now, remove that dagger and put in a dagger with IAS. You'll have 1.35 or something like that.
The build is based on critical hits or fury from a Mighty Weapon + Weapons Master. The more hits, the higher the chances of criticals, the higher the number of critical hits the higher the chances of having Fury back from Battle Rage, or in the case of the Mighty Weapon variation, the more hits, the more Fury.
Also, the more hits, the more health back due to Life on Hit. If it was Life Steal this would be irrelevant, just the damage would matter, but we all know that Life Steal is baaaaaaad now.
...
I ask this as I am currently trying to decide between higher DPS i.e. 1200 1h maces with 8+ % IAS, or 11xx 1h maces with 0% IAS (Yes, both contain sockets). Right now I seem to be unable to find a spreadsheet designed specifically to simulate WWSprint barb action. (Any help on this front would be particularly helpful too!)
...
A 1h 1200 is better than a 1h 11??. Period. However, if you meant a 1h + IAS = 11?? versus a 1h (no IAS) = 1200, then there would be some discussion. Still, I think I would prefer the +IAS version since it would also affect the OH speed. You would hit more often thus increasing the effectiveness of your build.
Anyway, my personal preference is the faster the better for LoH and Fury generation. I use that build with Axe + Dagger, or Mighty Weapon + Dagger.
When selecting a MH weapon, high DPS, slow weapon speed is key, as this translates to boost skill modifiers based on weapon damage - i.e. Sprint.
Now, how exactly is the "based on xx%" weapon damage calculated based on your weapon? Do they take the DPS? do they take the maximum weapon damage? averaging max and min? Do they factor in all values not including attack speed? or is weapon increased attack speed factored in as well?
I ask this as I am currently trying to decide between higher DPS i.e. 1200 1h maces with 8+ % IAS, or 11xx 1h maces with 0% IAS (Yes, both contain sockets). Right now I seem to be unable to find a spreadsheet designed specifically to simulate WWSprint barb action. (Any help on this front would be particularly helpful too!)
Thanks in advanced.
EDIT: I suppose this applies to all Weapon DMG skill questions for any class?
A spreadsheet isn't easy to create because there are too many variables that are hard to predict. Though I suppose a rough calculation could be made if one would insist, but eventually if you want the best damage for your gold (unless you have enough gold to buy the best weapon in the game), you will obviously get it with a mace that has no attack speed on it. And if you aren't super-rich settle for just a socket or just crit damage rather than both.
Sure, whirlwind uses both weapons as you would normally expect, but sprint is the real damage dealer with this build - Whirlwind is just a bonus.
My question has been largely answered by this response.
To supplement, I have found out that IAS on the weapon itself does not affect "xx% weapon damage" calculation on respective skills. Hence purely looking at weapons in terms of raw DPS is inaccurate for maximising skills with damage based on weapon damage.
A better effective measurement is to calculate what output the weapon would yield without the IAS included. i.e. calculating the average of the total (incl. elemental dmg, min/max dmg, other dmg modifiers) and using that as a rough estimate when comparing weapons.
Your mainhand determines the tornado damage, your general attack speed determines the number of "ticks" your tornados does.
This means that your attack speed does effect your tornado damage since you get more hits with them per second.
Go by DPS when buying a main hand don't settle for a lower DPS weapon just because its slower.
I had considered that fact. However, referencing the first reply to my original post - the MH weapon damage is used quite frequently with your OH weapon speed when utilising attacks such as WW (working as intended or glitch who knows). This piece of information is further supported by any one of Kripp's WWbarb tutorial vids. If this is the case, you would actually lose overall DPS by picking a weapon with inherent IAS on it. (A bigger discrepancy in weapon speeds between OH and MH would yield better results).
However, I guess it should be noted that Sprint does constitute ~80% of overall DPS, so it might still be the better option to go with your suggestion of going by raw displayed weapon DPS.
Thoughts?
A valid point, however, consider these following counters. (Note that this is only specific to my build and gear, response mileage may vary with other readers)
Fury generation per hit - I have two things to say to this, the first is that I use Bash - Instigation, instead of leap which I understand to be a common alternative. Hence in terms of generation when mobs are not nearby, bash serves most purposes on perpetuating Fury generation for sprints on destructibles. Secondly, in conjunction to your response on being able to use WW more often. I currently have 53.5% crit chance hence, in most cases, I am able to maintain appropriate generation to have 95%+ WW uptime, in conjunction to sprinting around a single target mob. Thus I'm not so sure that I would yield a small if any overall damage if I took your suggestions.
Following onto your point, I am lead to believe that the reason why most people switch to fury weapons is due to the fact that they kill mobs in too few hits (too high spreadsheet DPS) to generate adequate fury off of them to maintain sprint. Hence the switch is to a mighty weapon is mainly used to maintain suitable fury levels, while relatively little damage output. Also, the fury weapon is there to supplement the WotB - Thrive on Chaos rune to achieve as high uptime on berserker as possible. If you're interested in seeing this particular WWSprint barb build variation put to on show. Kripp has a great video where he clears A3 with really high uptime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWsCgYodZ1Y
I think most people only do this when they have a great amount of DPS to not be able to get the full benefits of sprinting past trash mobs and refreshing a full fury meter. (I'm ballparking approx 80k+)
Open your character details, hold shift and left click. You'll notice that the "attacks per second" will change depending on which weapon is to be used next.
With that in mind, basically what happens is that each swing will have a different time.
Now, lets say you equip a dagger in OH, you'll have 1.25 attacks per second lets say with the MH as next weapon, not the dagger. Now, remove that dagger and put in a dagger with IAS. You'll have 1.35 or something like that.
The build is based on critical hits or fury from a Mighty Weapon + Weapons Master. The more hits, the higher the chances of criticals, the higher the number of critical hits the higher the chances of having Fury back from Battle Rage, or in the case of the Mighty Weapon variation, the more hits, the more Fury.
Also, the more hits, the more health back due to Life on Hit. If it was Life Steal this would be irrelevant, just the damage would matter, but we all know that Life Steal is baaaaaaad now.
Your example also doesn't make much sense:
A 1h 1200 is better than a 1h 11??. Period. However, if you meant a 1h + IAS = 11?? versus a 1h (no IAS) = 1200, then there would be some discussion. Still, I think I would prefer the +IAS version since it would also affect the OH speed. You would hit more often thus increasing the effectiveness of your build.
Anyway, my personal preference is the faster the better for LoH and Fury generation. I use that build with Axe + Dagger, or Mighty Weapon + Dagger.