We need to make smart choices when it comes to our passives. This is mostly due to the fact that we can only use three at a time.
I feel that today is a good day to share my opinion on these two passives for the Barbarian. Nerves of Steel will give you an amount of armor equal to 100% of your Vitality. Tough As Nails will give you +50% armor as well as +50% thorns damage.
I personally feel that they're pretty well done. You won't see much Vitality on gear until the higher levels. This is mostly due to the fact that:
You'll be using gear with 1-3 affixes for the most part
This number swells as you level
Given that information (Which we're all aware of), I'll state the obvious. There will be "Tankier" items and there will be "DPSier" items.
An ideal PvP item would be a good hybridization of Vitality, Strength, Armor, etc.
Looking at those numbers, you can see which one would become more efficient at what point. I think this raises an interesting scenario. If you really wanted to, you could use both - but why would you?
You could also look at it in the sense that you can build bulky AND keep your DPS if you just dropped a shield.
I believe these two passives will be interchange-able depending on what gear we get and when we get it.
What do you guys think - and do you like passives like this?
I'm definitely going to be taking up one of those two passives as I get into the later difficulties. I'm leaning towards Tough as Nails currently because I'm not sure how vitality will stack up to total armor value.
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My place really was here. I was too foolish and stubborn to notice. But, what I truly hoped for then was here. Why do I always realize it When I've already lost it.
I'm confused by the first part, 100% of your vitality to armor?
Has this been changed in patch 15 and have I missed it in all the times I looked or was it hidden?
On the skill calculator it still shows as 25% of your vitality to armor, and in this way, it seems quite obvious that Tough as Nails is way better. That is atleast, if we don't get some weird value on vitality in a way that we'll have twice as much vitality as armor.
Just checked the notes and it's not there, explain?
I have to disagree. I'm going to say that your build is far more dependent on team composition for PvP (if that's what it's for). I was talking more about end-game - and specifically, if you stacked raw DPS gear that didn't have nearly as much armor as it did Vitality. My point was that they will both be inter-changeable and they will have a threshold at which point one becomes better than the other.
But it's not that far behind, I've looked up patch notes from 12-15, and have not seen anything about this change. Has this been an unreported change? I'm sorry, I'm not in the beta and am quite dependant on patch notes or the calculator for such changes.
But this buff makes it 300% more useful, that's.. quite a bit and wouldn't go unnoticed I guess?
I'm not too sure when they changed it. I didn't get into the beta until patch 14.
I'm sorry, back to the topic, I don't see us getting a 2:1 ratio on armor to vitality, 8000 armor sounds.. ok but 4000 vitality doesn't at level 1 the scaling for vit : health is 1:10, (according to a blue post, correct me if I'm wrong), I'm not sure if this gets less or more at higher level but at this scaling that would mean 40k hp with 4000 vitality. at the moment it looks like something that might only be obtainable with inferno gear and gemming towards vitality.
This would still make Tough as Nails look better in 90% of the cases, the added thorns damage is just a side bonus.
I think 4000 vitality will be obtainable. I wouldn't gear just for vitality - but using Inferno gear with 6 mods, you could stack Strength, Vitality AND Dexterity. It would just take a lot of time and effort to get the affixes for it.
I do think that 4000 vitality would be a bit over-kill for most builds. Like you said, 10% of the builds. That's why I said I think they will be inter-changeable depending on your gear :).
If Tough as Nails gets too far ahead, I could see them boosting the vitality bonus to 150% =)
Edit: http://us.battle.net...c-health-potion makes me believe that 40k hp isn't too far-fetched. Obviously the number isn't too set in stone, but the point stands. I've seen people reach 1,000 HP in the beta using level 10+11 gear. Just wait until we have +x% hp gems and skills.
35k potion does indeed look quite insane, but I still think that you'll really have to do some weird stuff to get to a 2:1 ratio or better with your vitality, if you socket ALL your armor slots with rank 14 (!) vitality gems, you'll have an extra of 754 vitality, this is with a shield and all your armor with their max amount of sockets. This might seem a big step towards the 4k, but with the shield you'll also be a lot closer to the 8k armor (which I still think is way easier to reach, and with the inferno gear I think it's quite doable to go 10k+, pushing the required amount of vitality needed to make Nerves of Steel viable up by a lot).
Okay that does sound like quite the overkill haha, I would actually rather see it having some other effect than pure +armor, there's plenty of more defensive things to think of, maybe a sort of Superstition but for melee, with different stats I guess.
True. As it stands the passive just does what Tough as Nails does. Maybe it could just be changed to a flat 20% to all resistances?
Nerves of Steel isn't all that amazing because it's based on Vitality (something you can't stack because then you can't kill anything). Seize the Initiative, on the other hand, is a bit out of control...
Tough as Nails seems decent under the new stat system that Armor is global damage reduction. It's not great but it's not terrible.
Nerves of Steel isn't all that amazing because it's based on Vitality (something you can't stack because then you can't kill anything). Seize the Initiative, on the other hand, is a bit out of control...
Tough as Nails seems decent under the new stat system that Armor is global damage reduction. It's not great but it's not terrible.
You're forgetting we will have SIX affixes on armor in inferno.
Vitality/Str being 2/6. I don't think we'd miss out on much if we used one of the six on vitality ;). You're giving way too much credit to there being DPS stats.
Nerves of Steel isn't all that amazing because it's based on Vitality (something you can't stack because then you can't kill anything). Seize the Initiative, on the other hand, is a bit out of control...
Tough as Nails seems decent under the new stat system that Armor is global damage reduction. It's not great but it's not terrible.
You're forgetting we will have SIX affixes on armor in inferno.
Vitality/Str being 2/6. I don't think we'd miss out on much if we used one of the six on vitality ;). You're giving way too much credit to there being DPS stats.
Yes, but would you rather gem Vitality or your main stat? Whereas Monks don't need to make that (obvious) decision. I'm really just saying Nerves isn't that good because Seize exists.
Nerves of Steel isn't all that amazing because it's based on Vitality (something you can't stack because then you can't kill anything). Seize the Initiative, on the other hand, is a bit out of control...
Tough as Nails seems decent under the new stat system that Armor is global damage reduction. It's not great but it's not terrible.
You're forgetting we will have SIX affixes on armor in inferno.
Vitality/Str being 2/6. I don't think we'd miss out on much if we used one of the six on vitality ;). You're giving way too much credit to there being DPS stats.
Yes, but would you rather gem Vitality or your main stat? Whereas Monks don't need to make that (obvious) decision. I'm really just saying Nerves isn't that good because Seize exists.
I'm not saying Nerve is a great passive. I also never said to gem Vitality - that was just part of the discussion pertaining to the only way to make it useful. The Barb can't get Seize anyways. You're still under-estimating the ability to get dual stat armor. Am I saying it'd be as useful as Seize? Not even close since it's not a primary stat. There really isn't a way for them to balance it since that would make Vitality useless. My only suggestion would be to make it give like 10% resistances or so.
Typical old school arms warrior versus fury warrior argument. Instead of "If you're AP is over this amount, go Fury", it's now "Your vitality must be this high to get on the 'Nerves of Steel' ride!"
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Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
Spoiler: The team with the best gear will likely win.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Spoiler: The team with the best gear will likely win.
Not sure where I even mentioned PvP itself being balanced. I was speaking for the passives themselves. It seems redundant to have two passives performing the same function - especially if one excels at it.
Want to know what's funny, AsfastasIcan? I main an Arms Warrior in WoW XD.
And it's not really "If you're vit is this high get on the Nerves ride"
It's...One completely outclasses the other in every manner until x amount of vit. Which might not even be obtainable - or feasible.
Edit: And when I mentioned PvP - I just mentioned the perfect PvP armor being a hybridization of stats. Not sure how that even remotely = balanced in your mind :3.
You could also use both, seeing as one would drastically make the other better.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
I feel that today is a good day to share my opinion on these two passives for the Barbarian. Nerves of Steel will give you an amount of armor equal to 100% of your Vitality. Tough As Nails will give you +50% armor as well as +50% thorns damage.
I personally feel that they're pretty well done. You won't see much Vitality on gear until the higher levels. This is mostly due to the fact that:
An ideal PvP item would be a good hybridization of Vitality, Strength, Armor, etc.
Some examples:
8000 armor = 4000 vitality
4000 armor = 2000 vitality
2000 armor = 1000 vitality
1000 armor = 500 vitality
Looking at those numbers, you can see which one would become more efficient at what point. I think this raises an interesting scenario. If you really wanted to, you could use both - but why would you?
You could also look at it in the sense that you can build bulky AND keep your DPS if you just dropped a shield.
I believe these two passives will be interchange-able depending on what gear we get and when we get it.
What do you guys think - and do you like passives like this?
I guess it depends on your build...
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aTciSR!UbT!YcZbbY
Leap is still called Leap Attack...
Don't use the Blizzard skill calculator. Go to http://d3db.com/tool...lator/barbarian to do any skill calculations.
I'm in the beta so I can tell you that it is indeed 100% vitality to armor.
I have to disagree. I'm going to say that your build is far more dependent on team composition for PvP (if that's what it's for). I was talking more about end-game - and specifically, if you stacked raw DPS gear that didn't have nearly as much armor as it did Vitality. My point was that they will both be inter-changeable and they will have a threshold at which point one becomes better than the other.
Basically, this:
If armor/2 < vitality;
then Nerves of Steel;
If armor/2 > vitality;
then Tough as Nails;
I'm not too sure when they changed it. I didn't get into the beta until patch 14.
I think 4000 vitality will be obtainable. I wouldn't gear just for vitality - but using Inferno gear with 6 mods, you could stack Strength, Vitality AND Dexterity. It would just take a lot of time and effort to get the affixes for it.
I do think that 4000 vitality would be a bit over-kill for most builds. Like you said, 10% of the builds. That's why I said I think they will be inter-changeable depending on your gear :).
If Tough as Nails gets too far ahead, I could see them boosting the vitality bonus to 150% =)
Edit: http://us.battle.net...c-health-potion makes me believe that 40k hp isn't too far-fetched. Obviously the number isn't too set in stone, but the point stands. I've seen people reach 1,000 HP in the beta using level 10+11 gear. Just wait until we have +x% hp gems and skills.
Wouldn't that make Nerves of Steel useless then?
300% of vitality goes to armor! RAWR!
True. As it stands the passive just does what Tough as Nails does. Maybe it could just be changed to a flat 20% to all resistances?
Tough as Nails seems decent under the new stat system that Armor is global damage reduction. It's not great but it's not terrible.
You're forgetting we will have SIX affixes on armor in inferno.
Vitality/Str being 2/6. I don't think we'd miss out on much if we used one of the six on vitality ;). You're giving way too much credit to there being DPS stats.
Yes, but would you rather gem Vitality or your main stat? Whereas Monks don't need to make that (obvious) decision. I'm really just saying Nerves isn't that good because Seize exists.
I'm not saying Nerve is a great passive. I also never said to gem Vitality - that was just part of the discussion pertaining to the only way to make it useful. The Barb can't get Seize anyways. You're still under-estimating the ability to get dual stat armor. Am I saying it'd be as useful as Seize? Not even close since it's not a primary stat. There really isn't a way for them to balance it since that would make Vitality useless. My only suggestion would be to make it give like 10% resistances or so.
Spoiler: The team with the best gear will likely win.
Epicurus
Not sure where I even mentioned PvP itself being balanced. I was speaking for the passives themselves. It seems redundant to have two passives performing the same function - especially if one excels at it.
Want to know what's funny, AsfastasIcan? I main an Arms Warrior in WoW XD.
And it's not really "If you're vit is this high get on the Nerves ride"
It's...One completely outclasses the other in every manner until x amount of vit. Which might not even be obtainable - or feasible.
Edit: And when I mentioned PvP - I just mentioned the perfect PvP armor being a hybridization of stats. Not sure how that even remotely = balanced in your mind :3.
Epicurus
That is the case - but I feel you'd lose too much DPS for that. =) There are a lot of nice passives on the Barb that you'd be missing out on. =(
Nerves of Steel
Superstition
+ Thorn gears
walking tank.
why single them out?