Hey guys, with micro transactions coming Soon - to the Asian region (most likely as a trial before hitting EU/US) - I wanted to take some time and give you my thoughts on the matter. There are two types of players in this game - those who hate the concept and those who love it. I'm the latter, and I've pushed for/discussed/explained why D3 desperately needs micro.
In this video I present my argument for not only why micro is a good thing, but also how it will benefit everyone - including those players who vehemently oppose it - based on my near 20 years experience with Blizzard games and how non performance enhancing micro is benefiting games like Heroes of the Storm. Enjoy!
I am not opposed to micro transactions so far as they don't provide any competitive advantage to players.
I choose not to spend additional money on my Blizzard games, but some people really love to. I bought collectors editions of both D3 and RoS and sold off the codes for the cosmetic stuff. If people want to spend their money on it, let them. If you don't want to spend your money on it, then don't.
I think the new (renewed) revenue stream would greatly benefit the player base as there would be an influx of cash to help upgrade and maintain login servers, hire additional people to work on content, etc. I'm all for it.
nope. paying for cosmetics is awesome. paying for stash space is less awesome because everyone should get more stash space for free. paying for BOOSTS? thats pay to win and a huge NOPE
Pretty much agree with everyone here. Micro transactions for cosmetic stuff, stash space, character slots are fine. I actually think its good for the game as well in the long run. But no to any thing that gives you a competitive advantage.
I personally have an issue with the Asias being able to buy more stash space, when the rest of us suffer from a lack of space (especially non-seasonal). I'd have an issue with being given the option to buy more stash space since it isn't a "cool I have that" thing but an "I absolutely need more space because I don't have enough room to keep the things I like on all 5 classes". Knowing we need something and offering to sell it to us is a smart business move from a monetary standpoint but a poor one on a customer service standpoint. But it's Blizz. They ride a fine line as it is and almost always err on the side of money.
nope. paying for cosmetics is awesome. paying for stash space is less awesome because everyone should get more stash space for free. paying for BOOSTS? thats pay to win and a huge NOPE
paragon has little to do with how high you can go in GRs
nope. paying for cosmetics is awesome. paying for stash space is less awesome because everyone should get more stash space for free. paying for BOOSTS? thats pay to win and a huge NOPE
paragon has little to do with how high you can go in GRs
lol no. once you break the plvl 800 barrier and every point goes into mainstat 10/20/30 lvl CAN make a difference! when it comes to very high gr's, even little movement/placement mistakes CAN ruin your dream rift. this little extra dmg CAN save your butt... you see it in real life also: look at professional (competitive) boxers for example. every calory too much or too little, every change in their daily training routine can cost them the win, so is with plvl points
tl;dr: every plvl point matters and is gamechanging in the long run
nope. paying for cosmetics is awesome. paying for stash space is less awesome because everyone should get more stash space for free. paying for BOOSTS? thats pay to win and a huge NOPE
paragon has little to do with how high you can go in GRs
lol no. once you break the plvl 800 barrier and every point goes into mainstat 10/20/30 lvl CAN make a difference! when it comes to very high gr's, even little movement/placement mistakes CAN ruin your dream rift. this little extra dmg CAN save your butt... you see it in real life also: look at professional (competitive) boxers for example. every calory too much or too little, every change in their daily training routine can cost them the win, so is with plvl points
tl;dr: every plvl point matters and is gamechanging in the long run
Fractions of fractions of percent DPS actually matter exponentially less than a well-rolled rift. 150 mainstat on 15000 mainstat is a tenth of a percent. For that to matter you need to be finishing rifts within moments of the timer running out.
So no. It doesn't really make a difference.
On the other hand it's a terrible practice in its own right. Which is why it's on Asian servers where that kind of stuff is expected. In the future? The American playerbase is much less likely to buy into the system so it won't present any real profit opportunities.
nope. paying for cosmetics is awesome. paying for stash space is less awesome because everyone should get more stash space for free. paying for BOOSTS? thats pay to win and a huge NOPE
paragon has little to do with how high you can go in GRs
Wrong, paragon has a HUGE factor in your character strength and survivability.
Someone might attempt to reach top 1 in greater rifts, but fails to kill the rift guardian in time, missing 2 second to succeed. Now if that player would be just a little bit higher paragon level he might've succeeded. So he failed the rift he would've succeeded if he was higher para level.
Also Paragon leveling is a competition to many people, hundreds of players actually. To be rank 1 world, EU, US, Asia etc etc. To be rank 1 at the end of the season, first to reach 1500 or 2000 para levels. And it forces them to buy it, so it's making it a pay to win, cause they had to pay, to win what they wanted.
If it would've been an xp boost for 1-70, that wouldn't be as huge, but still lame. You only have to level once 1-70, it usually takes 3-5 hours for those speed leveling. Technically it would be an unfair advantage if you could but 100% xp boost, cause it would mean you would be 2 times faster to reach 70 in seasons, thus getting a 2-4 hours head start of everyone. Not gonna matter at all for end game, but would for some seasonal conquests etcetc, people might be going for. So that could be looked as pay to win too. Cause if someone wanted to be first to complete 35 greater rift conquest for example, or be top 10 even, he would have to buy the xp boost.
nope. paying for cosmetics is awesome. paying for stash space is less awesome because everyone should get more stash space for free. paying for BOOSTS? thats pay to win and a huge NOPE
paragon has little to do with how high you can go in GRs
lol no. once you break the plvl 800 barrier and every point goes into mainstat 10/20/30 lvl CAN make a difference! when it comes to very high gr's, even little movement/placement mistakes CAN ruin your dream rift. this little extra dmg CAN save your butt... you see it in real life also: look at professional (competitive) boxers for example. every calory too much or too little, every change in their daily training routine can cost them the win, so is with plvl points
tl;dr: every plvl point matters and is gamechanging in the long run
Fractions of fractions of percent DPS actually matter exponentially less than a well-rolled rift. 150 mainstat on 15000 mainstat is a tenth of a percent. For that to matter you need to be finishing rifts within moments of the timer running out.
So no. It doesn't really make a difference.
On the other hand it's a terrible practice in its own right. Which is why it's on Asian servers where that kind of stuff is expected. In the future? The American playerbase is much less likely to buy into the system so it won't present any real profit opportunities.
And that 150 main stat on top of 15.000, which is not tenth of a percentage, but actually 1%. And 1% more main stat is 1% more damage. And 1% more damage can mean, instead of failing a rift with 9 second overtime, you succeed the rift. If it was a tenth of a percentage, it would mean if you fail a rift by 1 second, you would've succeeded with that 0.1% main stat. I have personally been in a greater rift I managed to beat with 1 second left, also been in one I missed 1-2 seconds to succeed. I bet many people who progress have missed 1-2 seconds of reaching top 10, or even top 1. So, a perfect rolled rift can matter. But, it doesn't mean you'll succeed a perfect rolled rift, getting that extra few stats can actually help you succeed the perfect rolled rift. And It might even end up being the reason for someone to claim the first place at the end of the season.
Just an example of what that extra 1% main stat can actually help someone. Doesn't mean it will, but it can, and probably will for someone. Weather they'll be reaching top 1, top 10, top 100, or just reaching the leaderboards/personal best.
All of the suggested options can be pay to win. Platinum - no idea what it is for. I would expect you buy that with your money, then trade it for the other things? Timed XP boost - the more paragon, the better. Certainly at the start of the season, or when trying to get top leaderboards. Some builds do not work without paragon and it is a ton of damage, even after 800. You wont feel 1 point, but people have 1200+ paragon. Even if you are at 800, that extra 400 gives you 2000 mainstat. I think a good geared toon has about 13000 mainstat? So that is about a 16% dps increase, apart from survivability. Cosmetic - it might sound stupid, most groups go with a support WD leading the way. To make him better visible in the clutter, our group asks the WD to put the yellow wings on, and the other members to take them off. It is not a lot, put when you push for the max, every little thing does help. If you could put something on that is easy to see and trace, while at the same point not hide ground effects, it can make a difference. Buy stash space and char slots - I play all classes, so my stash is full of stuff, so are my mules. I am forced to salvage non-BIS items, like ancient nat pieces. Now it seems they will introduce a 6 piece set bonus and another items to buff rain of vengeance. I dont think it might be the best build, but buying more space would allow me to keep those super rolled items that I did salvage in the past, maybe have the best item next patch. But, I am all for buying stuff. If they introduce it, I will buy items. Not affraid to admit I did buy from RMAH from time to time.
nope. paying for cosmetics is awesome. paying for stash space is less awesome because everyone should get more stash space for free. paying for BOOSTS? thats pay to win and a huge NOPE
paragon has little to do with how high you can go in GRs
lol no. once you break the plvl 800 barrier and every point goes into mainstat 10/20/30 lvl CAN make a difference! when it comes to very high gr's, even little movement/placement mistakes CAN ruin your dream rift. this little extra dmg CAN save your butt... you see it in real life also: look at professional (competitive) boxers for example. every calory too much or too little, every change in their daily training routine can cost them the win, so is with plvl points
tl;dr: every plvl point matters and is gamechanging in the long run
Fractions of fractions of percent DPS actually matter exponentially less than a well-rolled rift. 150 mainstat on 15000 mainstat is a tenth of a percent. For that to matter you need to be finishing rifts within moments of the timer running out.
So no. It doesn't really make a difference.
On the other hand it's a terrible practice in its own right. Which is why it's on Asian servers where that kind of stuff is expected. In the future? The American playerbase is much less likely to buy into the system so it won't present any real profit opportunities.
And that 150 main stat on top of 15.000, which is not tenth of a percentage, but actually 1%. And 1% more main stat is 1% more damage. And 1% more damage can mean, instead of failing a rift with 9 second overtime, you succeed the rift. If it was a tenth of a percentage, it would mean if you fail a rift by 1 second, you would've succeeded with that 0.1% main stat. I have personally been in a greater rift I managed to beat with 1 second left, also been in one I missed 1-2 seconds to succeed. I bet many people who progress have missed 1-2 seconds of reaching top 10, or even top 1. So, a perfect rolled rift can matter. But, it doesn't mean you'll succeed a perfect rolled rift, getting that extra few stats can actually help you succeed the perfect rolled rift. And It might even end up being the reason for someone to claim the first place at the end of the season.
Just an example of what that extra 1% main stat can actually help someone. Doesn't mean it will, but it can, and probably will for someone. Weather they'll be reaching top 1, top 10, top 100, or just reaching the leaderboards/personal best.
I'm just gonna ignore my mathderp because you missed the point.
There's a far greater swing in clear speed resulting from rift layout than there is from the laughable amount of mainstat you gain from paragon levels. Can that tiny bit help? Yes. Does it help enough to make an actual difference? No.
If you wanted to get into the high end technicals: Two players will buy power. The first group of players are the "dedicated" players. they'll buy in to the transactions early and often and they'll be ranked high whether or not they do so by virtue of playtime. For these players that tiny little stat difference won't matter because they're competing with others who are playing 24 hours a day like they are and so the "advantage" is negated by a leveled playing field. The second group of players are the "opportunists". They'll buy into the transaction in order to get to their target and then stop using them, and in fact will likely stop playing altogether well before a season ends. The important part of that is that they'll be negating their advantage by not actually using it.
Where does that leave the rest of players? Exactly where they were going to be in the first place. Somewhere between the hardcore and the casual.
There's just so much LUCK involved in high GR progression that a 1% increase in DPS won't have a more than token effect on leaderboards.
Was playing with a friend the other night. He's a barb, and nobody wants him in his group. We failed a lvl 52 with 2 seconds. Yes, it was a bad layout. Yes, it were bad mobs. BUT he was pretty sad about it we did not finish in time after being so close. The entire grift took 902 sec while we have 900 sec. Paragon points could have made the difference.
Yes I do know 52 would not have put us anywhere close on the leaderboards, but people do not finish in the high grifts with minutes left. I know that 1% dps is not 1% faster, because of run time. But if you check EU NS 4people leaderboard: Tier 63 in 14min53, 7 seconds left. Assuming they have 15k mainstat (and I think they don't), 30 paragon (150 mainstat) less for everyone in that group WOULD have made the difference.
So, while I agree you won't suddenly break Tier 60+ because you have a bit, maybe even 100+, more paragon, the top ranked would have probably failed with a bit less...
If you think that the xp to go 100 paragon up is about the same you have collected (800-900 is around the same as 0-800, give or take), with double xp buff the entire time, you gain 100(!) paragon points for free. Looking at my real example above, that is a lot. Before 800 even more as you gain your damage multipliers.
I think the main 'meta' argument currently is with regards to timed xp bonus, similar to HotS 'stimpack'. As I mentioned in the video, I don't think it's a big deal for WELL over 99.99% of the player base. Extremely high paragon might help you get the #1 spot, but how many of you have even been close (top 10-20)? At that point, it's a combination of paragon, gear, skill, RNG (level type, mob type, available pylons, rift guardian), and any potential exploits - if you don't use them, someone else will.
So, IMO to be angry that less than 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of ... you get it ... is going to benefit from paying what is likely to be equal to or less than $10/month for ~double xp just to POTENTIALLY inch out for top spot, it's kind of silly, considering there's a high probability that NO ONE commenting here will be vying for said spot.
In other words, the one argument that makes any sense does not apply to pretty much anyone. I hate to bring up specific players, but since most people know that Gaby essentially plays more than anyone else, what would it matter if a single person who already has more of an 'advantage' due to sheer time invested have a bit more? I mean, not like anyone else here is going to grind 18 hours/day for months on end ....
I think the main 'meta' argument currently is with regards to timed xp bonus, similar to HotS 'stimpack'. As I mentioned in the video, I don't think it's a big deal for WELL over 99.99% of the player base. Extremely high paragon might help you get the #1 spot, but how many of you have even been close (top 10-20)? At that point, it's a combination of paragon, gear, skill, RNG (level type, mob type, available pylons, rift guardian), and any potential exploits - if you don't use them, someone else will.
So, IMO to be angry that less than 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of ... you get it ... is going to benefit from paying what is likely to be equal to or less than $10/month for ~double xp just to POTENTIALLY inch out for top spot, it's kind of silly, considering there's a high probability that NO ONE commenting here will be vying for said spot.
In other words, the one argument that makes any sense does not apply to pretty much anyone. I hate to bring up specific players, but since most people know that Gaby essentially plays more than anyone else, what would it matter if a single person who already has more of an 'advantage' due to sheer time invested have a bit more? I mean, not like anyone else here is going to grind 18 hours/day for months on end ....
TL;DR it'll be fine guys.
Meathead,
I take issue with the claims in your argument. You're misidentifying the principle behind the argument. It's not that people complaining care about their spot on the leaderboards, but more that this MT could (will) have a direct effect on the leaderboards at all.
Essentially, you're arguing since the percentage of people that will be affected is small, most people shouldn't care. By extension, the degree to which most people will be affected is small as well. But the real meta isn't an issue of degree, it's one of principal. The principal that a monetized mechanic in the game exists to allow people to pay for advancement, by whatever degree, is the problem. It's the fact of is potential existence, not the amount of it's effect.
Should I not care that a pro athlete dopes because my particular chances of being a pro athlete are infinitesimal? Of course I should, not because it affects me by a small amount, or because it's affects a small amount of the overall population, but rather because, as a fan of the game, it breaks the rules and the implicit social contract athletes have with the fans (and often the public at large via stadiums and tax breaks) that funds their wealth: that their achievements are their own, made of their own hard work and ability by the rules, not their ability to pay for a chemical.
A MT that even potentially shifts the playing field in favor of those who pay should not exist on the Americas server.
Of course, there are plenty of other reasons why the leaderboards are flawed and so on, that are beyond the scope of this thread - I'm well aware - so don't think I'm defending an already flawed system (not defending it at all), but your argument misses the mark in its assessment of why people are against the XP MT.
I also understand that players will state the case that since leaderboards will be affected, then they're against it, implying that they're in the running for one of the top spots. But that's not the case. They don't even have to care about grifts to make that argument. Imagine that you extended the LBs to infinity, so that every player could see where they rank. If just one person displaces another at the top spot on the leaderboard, it's not just the next 999 players that are affected, it's all players since everyone is on that list somewhere. And they're all one spot lower bc some guy was able to enhance his position for something he paid for.
What real impact does this have on them? None. But what real impact does any MT have on any player, really? None. Even the guys who get paid to play the game won't really be affected, by my estimation (could be wrong, but I'm just as likely to give $5 to a guy that helps me out via his YT channel or twitch feed or whatever, regardless of his LB ranking. I don't care what he/she ranks. Valuable info is valuable always - but I'm not the guy to pay a gamer for a build due to my apparently miserly opinions about video games as a profession).
But the degree of impact doesn't matter. It's the principal of it that does.
TL;DR: You're missing the point. It's not how much players are affected, it's the fact they may be affected at all that's the problem.
^ I'll counter-argue that such a minimal 'advantage' via XP boost is no different from better training conditions, a better coach, better access to appropriate foods/supplements, less stress in other areas, etc.
Again, the only argument currently is with timed xp boosts (well, some people will complain about stash tabs/hero slots forever), but I can't really say anything more than I already have - difference in paragon at the higher end (which is what people care about, right? leaderboards, right?) is negligible. If you disagree, take a look at the top leaderboard spots.
^ I'll counter-argue that such a minimal 'advantage' via XP boost is no different from better training conditions, a better coach, better access to appropriate foods/supplements, less stress in other areas, etc.
Again, the only argument currently is with timed xp boosts (well, some people will complain about stash tabs/hero slots forever), but I can't really say anything more than I already have - difference in paragon at the higher end (which is what people care about, right? leaderboards, right?) is negligible. If you disagree, take a look at the top leaderboard spots.
No. Your counter isn't analogous since and XP boosts increases XP gained/kill, so if we both kill 100x demons, the xp boosted toon gets more xp out of the same number of kills, even if we kill at the same speed. That's why I use the PED analogy since that physiologically changes an athlete, allowing them to get more adaptation (or recover faster so they can continue a hard cycle, etc., etc., you get the point) out of the same work as another athlete. "Better training conditions" is more akin to killing faster/farming more efficiently or playing with a better group, which isn't an issue considering the mechanics of the game are the same for everyone.
And, again, negligible or not for the leaderboards, it's the principle of being able to pay for an advantage that is the real problem.
Sort of an aside, I actually agree with you about people overblowing the effects of this on the leaderboards and laughed at the end of your comment. These are probably the same people who complained they would never value them since RNG was such a big factor.
really? so infinite main stat at 800+ doesnt help? 600 plvl compared to sub 100 doesnt help? were talking about paragon points giving you as much affixes as items do. please learn to play this game before spouting out ignant comments. obviously plvl 599 to plvl 600 is not a huge difference, but thats not what were talking about here is it?
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Hey guys, with micro transactions coming Soon - to the Asian region (most likely as a trial before hitting EU/US) - I wanted to take some time and give you my thoughts on the matter. There are two types of players in this game - those who hate the concept and those who love it. I'm the latter, and I've pushed for/discussed/explained why D3 desperately needs micro.
In this video I present my argument for not only why micro is a good thing, but also how it will benefit everyone - including those players who vehemently oppose it - based on my near 20 years experience with Blizzard games and how non performance enhancing micro is benefiting games like Heroes of the Storm. Enjoy!
http://youtu.be/dzSWJILjf8E
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
I am not opposed to micro transactions so far as they don't provide any competitive advantage to players.
I choose not to spend additional money on my Blizzard games, but some people really love to. I bought collectors editions of both D3 and RoS and sold off the codes for the cosmetic stuff. If people want to spend their money on it, let them. If you don't want to spend your money on it, then don't.
I think the new (renewed) revenue stream would greatly benefit the player base as there would be an influx of cash to help upgrade and maintain login servers, hire additional people to work on content, etc. I'm all for it.
Basically echoing mdcwdzies thoughts and trying to define competitive advantage...
Don't care about cosmetic microtransactions. I never use them (never even dye my armor), and they clearly offer no competitive advantage.
I am fine with things like additional character slots and stash space. This to me is more of a QoL improvement than an advantage.
I think the proposed "timed xp bonus" is just slightly too far into the "competitive advantage" for me, especially in something like Seasons.
Buying gear strictly a "pay to win" and strongly against it.
nope. paying for cosmetics is awesome. paying for stash space is less awesome because everyone should get more stash space for free. paying for BOOSTS? thats pay to win and a huge NOPE
Pretty much agree with everyone here. Micro transactions for cosmetic stuff, stash space, character slots are fine. I actually think its good for the game as well in the long run. But no to any thing that gives you a competitive advantage.
I personally have an issue with the Asias being able to buy more stash space, when the rest of us suffer from a lack of space (especially non-seasonal). I'd have an issue with being given the option to buy more stash space since it isn't a "cool I have that" thing but an "I absolutely need more space because I don't have enough room to keep the things I like on all 5 classes". Knowing we need something and offering to sell it to us is a smart business move from a monetary standpoint but a poor one on a customer service standpoint. But it's Blizz. They ride a fine line as it is and almost always err on the side of money.
Yep, I don't believe Blizzard at all. This is just a test for them to bring it to the west.
paragon has little to do with how high you can go in GRs
lol no. once you break the plvl 800 barrier and every point goes into mainstat 10/20/30 lvl CAN make a difference! when it comes to very high gr's, even little movement/placement mistakes CAN ruin your dream rift. this little extra dmg CAN save your butt... you see it in real life also: look at professional (competitive) boxers for example. every calory too much or too little, every change in their daily training routine can cost them the win, so is with plvl points
tl;dr: every plvl point matters and is gamechanging in the long run
Fractions of fractions of percent DPS actually matter exponentially less than a well-rolled rift. 150 mainstat on 15000 mainstat is a tenth of a percent. For that to matter you need to be finishing rifts within moments of the timer running out.
So no. It doesn't really make a difference.
On the other hand it's a terrible practice in its own right. Which is why it's on Asian servers where that kind of stuff is expected. In the future? The American playerbase is much less likely to buy into the system so it won't present any real profit opportunities.
Wrong, paragon has a HUGE factor in your character strength and survivability.
Someone might attempt to reach top 1 in greater rifts, but fails to kill the rift guardian in time, missing 2 second to succeed. Now if that player would be just a little bit higher paragon level he might've succeeded. So he failed the rift he would've succeeded if he was higher para level.
Also Paragon leveling is a competition to many people, hundreds of players actually. To be rank 1 world, EU, US, Asia etc etc. To be rank 1 at the end of the season, first to reach 1500 or 2000 para levels. And it forces them to buy it, so it's making it a pay to win, cause they had to pay, to win what they wanted.
If it would've been an xp boost for 1-70, that wouldn't be as huge, but still lame. You only have to level once 1-70, it usually takes 3-5 hours for those speed leveling. Technically it would be an unfair advantage if you could but 100% xp boost, cause it would mean you would be 2 times faster to reach 70 in seasons, thus getting a 2-4 hours head start of everyone. Not gonna matter at all for end game, but would for some seasonal conquests etcetc, people might be going for. So that could be looked as pay to win too. Cause if someone wanted to be first to complete 35 greater rift conquest for example, or be top 10 even, he would have to buy the xp boost.
And that 150 main stat on top of 15.000, which is not tenth of a percentage, but actually 1%. And 1% more main stat is 1% more damage. And 1% more damage can mean, instead of failing a rift with 9 second overtime, you succeed the rift. If it was a tenth of a percentage, it would mean if you fail a rift by 1 second, you would've succeeded with that 0.1% main stat. I have personally been in a greater rift I managed to beat with 1 second left, also been in one I missed 1-2 seconds to succeed. I bet many people who progress have missed 1-2 seconds of reaching top 10, or even top 1. So, a perfect rolled rift can matter. But, it doesn't mean you'll succeed a perfect rolled rift, getting that extra few stats can actually help you succeed the perfect rolled rift. And It might even end up being the reason for someone to claim the first place at the end of the season.
Just an example of what that extra 1% main stat can actually help someone. Doesn't mean it will, but it can, and probably will for someone. Weather they'll be reaching top 1, top 10, top 100, or just reaching the leaderboards/personal best.
All of the suggested options can be pay to win.
Platinum - no idea what it is for. I would expect you buy that with your money, then trade it for the other things?
Timed XP boost - the more paragon, the better. Certainly at the start of the season, or when trying to get top leaderboards. Some builds do not work without paragon and it is a ton of damage, even after 800. You wont feel 1 point, but people have 1200+ paragon. Even if you are at 800, that extra 400 gives you 2000 mainstat. I think a good geared toon has about 13000 mainstat? So that is about a 16% dps increase, apart from survivability.
Cosmetic - it might sound stupid, most groups go with a support WD leading the way. To make him better visible in the clutter, our group asks the WD to put the yellow wings on, and the other members to take them off. It is not a lot, put when you push for the max, every little thing does help. If you could put something on that is easy to see and trace, while at the same point not hide ground effects, it can make a difference.
Buy stash space and char slots - I play all classes, so my stash is full of stuff, so are my mules. I am forced to salvage non-BIS items, like ancient nat pieces. Now it seems they will introduce a 6 piece set bonus and another items to buff rain of vengeance. I dont think it might be the best build, but buying more space would allow me to keep those super rolled items that I did salvage in the past, maybe have the best item next patch.
But, I am all for buying stuff. If they introduce it, I will buy items. Not affraid to admit I did buy from RMAH from time to time.
I'm just gonna ignore my mathderp because you missed the point.
There's a far greater swing in clear speed resulting from rift layout than there is from the laughable amount of mainstat you gain from paragon levels. Can that tiny bit help? Yes. Does it help enough to make an actual difference? No.
If you wanted to get into the high end technicals: Two players will buy power. The first group of players are the "dedicated" players. they'll buy in to the transactions early and often and they'll be ranked high whether or not they do so by virtue of playtime. For these players that tiny little stat difference won't matter because they're competing with others who are playing 24 hours a day like they are and so the "advantage" is negated by a leveled playing field. The second group of players are the "opportunists". They'll buy into the transaction in order to get to their target and then stop using them, and in fact will likely stop playing altogether well before a season ends. The important part of that is that they'll be negating their advantage by not actually using it.
Where does that leave the rest of players? Exactly where they were going to be in the first place. Somewhere between the hardcore and the casual.
There's just so much LUCK involved in high GR progression that a 1% increase in DPS won't have a more than token effect on leaderboards.
Was playing with a friend the other night. He's a barb, and nobody wants him in his group. We failed a lvl 52 with 2 seconds. Yes, it was a bad layout. Yes, it were bad mobs. BUT he was pretty sad about it we did not finish in time after being so close. The entire grift took 902 sec while we have 900 sec. Paragon points could have made the difference.
Yes I do know 52 would not have put us anywhere close on the leaderboards, but people do not finish in the high grifts with minutes left. I know that 1% dps is not 1% faster, because of run time. But if you check EU NS 4people leaderboard: Tier 63 in 14min53, 7 seconds left. Assuming they have 15k mainstat (and I think they don't), 30 paragon (150 mainstat) less for everyone in that group WOULD have made the difference.
So, while I agree you won't suddenly break Tier 60+ because you have a bit, maybe even 100+, more paragon, the top ranked would have probably failed with a bit less...
If you think that the xp to go 100 paragon up is about the same you have collected (800-900 is around the same as 0-800, give or take), with double xp buff the entire time, you gain 100(!) paragon points for free. Looking at my real example above, that is a lot. Before 800 even more as you gain your damage multipliers.
I think the main 'meta' argument currently is with regards to timed xp bonus, similar to HotS 'stimpack'. As I mentioned in the video, I don't think it's a big deal for WELL over 99.99% of the player base. Extremely high paragon might help you get the #1 spot, but how many of you have even been close (top 10-20)? At that point, it's a combination of paragon, gear, skill, RNG (level type, mob type, available pylons, rift guardian), and any potential exploits - if you don't use them, someone else will.
So, IMO to be angry that less than 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of ... you get it ... is going to benefit from paying what is likely to be equal to or less than $10/month for ~double xp just to POTENTIALLY inch out for top spot, it's kind of silly, considering there's a high probability that NO ONE commenting here will be vying for said spot.
In other words, the one argument that makes any sense does not apply to pretty much anyone. I hate to bring up specific players, but since most people know that Gaby essentially plays more than anyone else, what would it matter if a single person who already has more of an 'advantage' due to sheer time invested have a bit more? I mean, not like anyone else here is going to grind 18 hours/day for months on end ....
TL;DR it'll be fine guys.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
Meathead,
I take issue with the claims in your argument. You're misidentifying the principle behind the argument. It's not that people complaining care about their spot on the leaderboards, but more that this MT could (will) have a direct effect on the leaderboards at all.
Essentially, you're arguing since the percentage of people that will be affected is small, most people shouldn't care. By extension, the degree to which most people will be affected is small as well. But the real meta isn't an issue of degree, it's one of principal. The principal that a monetized mechanic in the game exists to allow people to pay for advancement, by whatever degree, is the problem. It's the fact of is potential existence, not the amount of it's effect.
Should I not care that a pro athlete dopes because my particular chances of being a pro athlete are infinitesimal? Of course I should, not because it affects me by a small amount, or because it's affects a small amount of the overall population, but rather because, as a fan of the game, it breaks the rules and the implicit social contract athletes have with the fans (and often the public at large via stadiums and tax breaks) that funds their wealth: that their achievements are their own, made of their own hard work and ability by the rules, not their ability to pay for a chemical.
A MT that even potentially shifts the playing field in favor of those who pay should not exist on the Americas server.
Of course, there are plenty of other reasons why the leaderboards are flawed and so on, that are beyond the scope of this thread - I'm well aware - so don't think I'm defending an already flawed system (not defending it at all), but your argument misses the mark in its assessment of why people are against the XP MT.
I also understand that players will state the case that since leaderboards will be affected, then they're against it, implying that they're in the running for one of the top spots. But that's not the case. They don't even have to care about grifts to make that argument. Imagine that you extended the LBs to infinity, so that every player could see where they rank. If just one person displaces another at the top spot on the leaderboard, it's not just the next 999 players that are affected, it's all players since everyone is on that list somewhere. And they're all one spot lower bc some guy was able to enhance his position for something he paid for.
What real impact does this have on them? None. But what real impact does any MT have on any player, really? None. Even the guys who get paid to play the game won't really be affected, by my estimation (could be wrong, but I'm just as likely to give $5 to a guy that helps me out via his YT channel or twitch feed or whatever, regardless of his LB ranking. I don't care what he/she ranks. Valuable info is valuable always - but I'm not the guy to pay a gamer for a build due to my apparently miserly opinions about video games as a profession).
But the degree of impact doesn't matter. It's the principal of it that does.
TL;DR: You're missing the point. It's not how much players are affected, it's the fact they may be affected at all that's the problem.
^ I'll counter-argue that such a minimal 'advantage' via XP boost is no different from better training conditions, a better coach, better access to appropriate foods/supplements, less stress in other areas, etc.
Again, the only argument currently is with timed xp boosts (well, some people will complain about stash tabs/hero slots forever), but I can't really say anything more than I already have - difference in paragon at the higher end (which is what people care about, right? leaderboards, right?) is negligible. If you disagree, take a look at the top leaderboard spots.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
No. Your counter isn't analogous since and XP boosts increases XP gained/kill, so if we both kill 100x demons, the xp boosted toon gets more xp out of the same number of kills, even if we kill at the same speed. That's why I use the PED analogy since that physiologically changes an athlete, allowing them to get more adaptation (or recover faster so they can continue a hard cycle, etc., etc., you get the point) out of the same work as another athlete. "Better training conditions" is more akin to killing faster/farming more efficiently or playing with a better group, which isn't an issue considering the mechanics of the game are the same for everyone.
And, again, negligible or not for the leaderboards, it's the principle of being able to pay for an advantage that is the real problem.
Sort of an aside, I actually agree with you about people overblowing the effects of this on the leaderboards and laughed at the end of your comment. These are probably the same people who complained they would never value them since RNG was such a big factor.
really? so infinite main stat at 800+ doesnt help? 600 plvl compared to sub 100 doesnt help? were talking about paragon points giving you as much affixes as items do. please learn to play this game before spouting out ignant comments. obviously plvl 599 to plvl 600 is not a huge difference, but thats not what were talking about here is it?