you still haven't offered me the proof of blizzard "DIRECTLY" saying that the witchdoctor is not a replacement for the Necro.
Now that I look, I found that I am wrong- I can't seem to find it. I think I was having one of those "I could've sworn I read that..." moments.
Why do you guys like moving threads and closing them and such, why cant you just let us talk about what we care for.
I'm not a moderator or administrator, so I have no power to do any of that. I have tried talking about this, but the entire thread is opinion-based, and thus it is impossible to argue intelligently here since we have scant real facts to base it on. In my opinion the Witch Doctor is more like the Druid- the only thing he's missing is Shape-Shifting.
This is exactly what i care for, as i mentioned in my analogy, what if they were ruining the barbarian?
They aren't ruining the Barbarian. He's nearly exactly the same as he was in the previous game. I never argued your right to discuss it, I argued peoples' right to portray opinions and baseless ideals as facts. I was part of that for a moment, but luckily you made me got out and check, and now I am corrected.
It was a disappointment that there are only 5 classes in D3. I think the witch-doctor is a bad replacement for the undead-caster. Most importantly, he is a waste of one of the five precious classes.
Why?
Primary reason:
He looks so weird and ugly. The closest word to describing him is gay.
His class name even sounds gay, it doesnt sound dark at all! I would much prefer the warlock, shaman, and best of all, the necromancer.
I am not a hardcore fan of the necromancer, but if you are going to replace such a meaningful class, please choose wisely.
Why does the witch doctor have a fireball spell? THIS DOESNT MAKE SENSE. Fire should remain unique to the sorceress (unless you have elemental traps like the assassin in d2).
But a plain fireball spell?
I like the undead wall. The mongrels, locust swarm, horrify and other spells are pretty gay.
Just my thought. I have to admit, the WD Looks pretty ugly. His spells seem all over the place.
The barbarian totally overshadowed the WD in the gameplay trailer.
LOL, don't like it don't play it, its as simple as that, thats why there are 4 more classes so everyone can choose a class he wants!
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Diablo 3 is graphically and artistically great, there needs to be variety in the game, instead of only plain and dark areas!
+Wouldn't it be better and more interesting if from a sunny beautiful day, mist starts covering the screen, rain starts falling, thunders and lightning striking and it starts to darken, instead of constant dark!?
I made a snap judgement about this guy's post, so I decided to break it down piece by piece now.
Here goes:
It was a disappointment that there are only 5 classes in D3. I think the witch-doctor is a bad replacement for the undead-caster. Most importantly, he is a waste of one of the five precious classes.
Why?
Primary reason:
He looks so weird and ugly. The closest word to describing him is gay.
>>>Really bad way to make an arguement. Using politically incorrect words to describe something is like digging your own grave.
His class name even sounds gay, it doesnt sound dark at all! I would much prefer the warlock, shaman, and best of all, the necromancer.
>>> Again, the use of "gay" here is misplaced. Find something better. Warlock and shaman are two very different classes, and they are both WoW classes. This is a double whammy, mainly because they are WoW classes, and other than the Paladin or Rogue, there isn't a very high chance that blizzard will use simillar classes across games.
I am not a hardcore fan of the necromancer, but if you are going to replace such a meaningful class, please choose wisely.
>>>They have chosen wisely. In fact, they've been working on it for several years. How can you say that this is not a good choice? Have you taken the time to watch the Class Discussion panel?
Why does the witch doctor have a fireball spell? THIS DOESNT MAKE SENSE. Fire should remain unique to the sorceress (unless you have elemental traps like the assassin in d2).
But a plain fireball spell?
>>> Witch Doctor implies that he is very handy with alchemical things. The devs explained that the "fireball" is an alchemical concotion inside a SKULL. Think about that one, and tell me if you still withhold your above statement?
I like the undead wall. The mongrels, locust swarm, horrify and other spells are pretty gay.
>>> Agreed on Undead wall. Disagreed on "gay," once again.
Just my thought. I have to admit, the WD Looks pretty ugly. His spells seem all over the place.
>>> Blizz Devs have put a lot of thought into all the class skills. There is reason behind all of them, and I don't feel you are searching hard enough.
The barbarian totally overshadowed the WD in the gameplay trailer.
>>> This I disagree with. Although they did give the Barbarian more time, the witch doctor really captured my eye, because barb was old news brought back to life. But this is all opinion.
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I hate to rain on your parade of self centerdness but blizzard didnt design this game to your specifications....... in fact the only thing u even mentioned that was not pure personal taste was when you spoke of the fire bomb not being suited for him which, while we are on the topic of personal taste, I think is completely and utterly wrong.......
Witch doctors are notoriously thought of as crazy potion toting lunies and the fire bomb seems like an excelent choice to go with the them as well as many of the other moves you tossed aside as bad without one word to defend your view.
Don't get me wrong, feel free to hate this class as long as u want... that's your deal though and certainly not worth bringing to the forums... or at least unless you have a better arguement to stand on than personal taste and random conjecture... (-_-)
The witch doctor, on the other hand, seems to be more of a caster with a pet-control ability. Jay Wilson, a lead designer on Diablo III, saidthe witch doctor is not a replacement for Diablo II's necromancer. Witch doctors can cast a locust swarm that bounces between enemies, causing damage, or buffs the attack of any pets it's cast upon. He also gets a fire bomb ability, which appeared to be a limited range area of effect fire spell, and the more interesting wall of zombies attack. The latter sprouts a group of zombies out the ground and, while they don't appear to move, they do block enemies and swat at them with flailing arms.
Jackpot. Thanks a lot sandman53.
Magistrate, this seems to be the material you've been talking about. However, if this is the case, it may contradict to the thread about the 5 core classes being distinct.
If the WD has an undead tree, this WILL bleed into the necromancer's abilities.
If there really is a necromancer in D3, then there will only be 2 classes remaining. The sorceress and the amazon (considering i saw a short staff and short bow drop in the gameplay trailer).
This leaves out the paladin, assassin and the druid.
If the WD has an undead tree, this WILL bleed into the necromancer's abilities.
Yes, true. However, nearly every DnD-type game (of which the skills of these games are marginally based) has a character(s) with undead skills. I don't *think* in my *opinion* that it would be replacement if he has undead skills. The Druid could summon spirits, which I *think* are undead since they're spirits. The Amazon can summon Valkyries, which are also a form of ghostly being according to Norse legend. Undead skills, while one of the main focuses of the Necromancer (hence his name), are also on other characters, as well, so I do not *think* that it would be replacement of soley the Necromancer.
Necromancers are, also, not a needed part of the character selection. They weren't in Diablo I and we got along just fine. Same with the paladin, who is just a "holy" version of the warrior (while the barbarian is the, I like to say, "secular" version, even though he does have religious history in the games.) There will always be the primary caster class, though, like the Mage or Sorceress. Also there will most likely always be the ranged bow-type class (given the last game introduced javelins and the like, so probably better referred to as the ranged class), since there was the Rogue and Amazon.
Sorry, truely, if what I said about the direction of this thread offended you, Sammy, but for the most part it is/was true. Some of the latest posts, however, are returning the actual factual debating here.
I do like him, locust swarm looks SWEET. Zombie wall looks a little cheesy and doesn't last long enough... but I'm still kean.
Fire bomb is basically fire blast from the Assassin's trap tree. I like it, a decent sort of filler spell, I think he's kind of an alchemist and it looks like a Molotov cocktail so it makes sense.
I like the variety in play, like you can summon pets, then buff them with the same spell your damaging opponents, and if you get too swarmed you can blow them up XD
Anyway 95% of the complaining on these forums is unfounded and just stupid... your all judging the game which hasn't even hit alpha yet from 20 minutes of a gameplay video in which you have no control in what you see.
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"If we're actually making the game worse with no other reason than to be different from WoW, then it's a bad choice." - Jay Wilson (D3 lead designer)
It was a disappointment that there are only 5 classes in D3
Uh...there was only 5 classes in d2...and only 3 in d1 (not including the bard and the monk from hellfire cos technically they werent official). The hell are you complaining about? Besides, Diablo 2 expansion (LOD) added another 2 classes, making 7 total. Im sure there will be at least 1 d3 expansion, there has been an expansion for every warcraft/starcraft/diablo game ever made except warcraft 1.
I apologize for misusing the term "Gay" in my thread. I never meant it in a homophobic sense, and I have been warned to change my post, which I eventually did.
Blizzard always shares ideas from other franchises, did you know that Witch-Doctor was also a unit used in WarCraft 3?
I've seen it and learned much about the WD. I am not alone here, a lot of people dislike the WD, THAT ALONE means they have not chosen wisely.
I'll agree with you on the removal of the necromancer for the replacement of the Witch Doctor, but Blizzard choose that as one of the classes. Deal with it. I did.
I always viewed the necro as never actually fitting in. His skill set consisted primarily of indirect methods of killing your enemies. This always struck me as odd since every other class in the game went about killing his enemies directly. It didn't really fit.
The Druid fit mainly because his summons were used as support and not as his main source of damage and killing. You could also make a viable build without using any of the summons.
The necro on the other hand was fairly gimped without corpses. A poison and bone necro (which I played) was very fun, but didn't exactly 'fit' in with everything else. To me, it seems like the Witch Doctor fits the Poison and Bone necro perfectly. He's got direct methods of killing his enemies, support spells, and some summons to support and distract his enemies... which is sort of what I always viewed the necro as.
Anywaaaay...
I like the way the Witch Doctor looks. I've always liked characters like this in games... shamanic and what not. Very cool that he has the shakes. His colorful nature actually fits him rather well and makes me happy that they're, at the very least, getting the classes dead on.
My only beef is that his locust swarm spell sort of gets lost in translation due to the green nature of the outside world and the blue-green glow of the inside world.
The WD is OK imo, i like all his spells and what he uses isnt directly a fire-ball.
And they said clearly that he does NOT replace the Necro.
You're assuming that the necro is in the game all together... because the amazon from D2 didn't replace the rogue from D1 either :rolleyes:.
The WD seems to be a combination of the Druid and Necro. He's using elemental spells, a rabies-esque spell, summons, and other things that make him appear to be a combination of.
I wouldn't expect a pure summoning class, which sucks.
You're assuming that the necro is in the game all together... because the amazon from D2 didn't replace the rogue from D1 either :rolleyes:.
The WD seems to be a combination of the Druid and Necro. He's using elemental spells, a rabies-esque spell, summons, and other things that make him appear to be a combination of.
I wouldn't expect a pure summoning class, which sucks.
Druid? I don't see Witchdoctor using nature based elements, He's just throwing fire at people. And Druids didn't summon dead things, or demons or whatever the hell a mongrel is. My problem with WD is he just seems kinda random and out of place. Well, with places like Kurast maybe he isn't. ;/ Just seems like an odd type of person to be showing up to battle against hell and etc... He is pretty ugly too, but so was the necro, lol. Skeletons are cool tho.
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Diablo III needs werewolf form!! Werewolf druids are the greatesterestest! Werewolves that shred and eat enemies even!! Rawr! (f'.')f
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Most of the classes in D2 were broken and overlapped.
Druid and Necro overlapped. Paladin and Barbarian overlapped. Assassin and Amazon overlapped. Sure, they could've brought back all the same classes and just removed all the abilities from them while calling them the same thing and then you'd be making threads complaining about that, but they decided to take the high road and develop a new set of classes while bringing back those that were especially interesting for their abilities. You may whine about why the Barbarian is back in Diablo 3, but if you know the background the Barbarian is the only class now to have been in all 3 Diablo games, though as a prototype class in the first.
So basically they're trying to make classes unique to themselves rather than ones that step on eachothers' toes. Classes with skill sets that allow no definite cookie-cutter builds.
Druid? I don't see Witchdoctor using nature based elements, He's just throwing fire at people. And Druids didn't summon dead things, or demons or whatever the hell a mongrel is. My problem with WD is he just seems kinda random and out of place. Well, with places like Kurast maybe he isn't. ;/ Just seems like an odd type of person to be showing up to battle against hell and etc... He is pretty ugly too, but so was the necro, lol. Skeletons are cool tho.
The Witch Doctor behaves more like the Druid than the necro. Allow me to explain:
1. The WD and Druid both have summon spells that are not the focus of his power.
2. The WD and Druid both have damaging spells that can be the focus of his power.
3. The WD, like the Druid, has skills that pass an effect from enemy to enemy, similarly to Rabies.
All of these make him function much more like the Druid than the Necromancer. The parallels go further than just "lol fire and ice".
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I'm not a moderator or administrator, so I have no power to do any of that. I have tried talking about this, but the entire thread is opinion-based, and thus it is impossible to argue intelligently here since we have scant real facts to base it on. In my opinion the Witch Doctor is more like the Druid- the only thing he's missing is Shape-Shifting.
They aren't ruining the Barbarian. He's nearly exactly the same as he was in the previous game. I never argued your right to discuss it, I argued peoples' right to portray opinions and baseless ideals as facts. I was part of that for a moment, but luckily you made me got out and check, and now I am corrected.
Edit--
Nevermind, this guy found it here http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=281398&postcount=89.
Diablo 3 is graphically and artistically great, there needs to be variety in the game, instead of only plain and dark areas!
+Wouldn't it be better and more interesting if from a sunny beautiful day, mist starts covering the screen, rain starts falling, thunders and lightning striking and it starts to darken, instead of constant dark!?
Here goes:
It was a disappointment that there are only 5 classes in D3. I think the witch-doctor is a bad replacement for the undead-caster. Most importantly, he is a waste of one of the five precious classes.
Why?
Primary reason:
He looks so weird and ugly. The closest word to describing him is gay.
>>>Really bad way to make an arguement. Using politically incorrect words to describe something is like digging your own grave.
His class name even sounds gay, it doesnt sound dark at all! I would much prefer the warlock, shaman, and best of all, the necromancer.
>>> Again, the use of "gay" here is misplaced. Find something better. Warlock and shaman are two very different classes, and they are both WoW classes. This is a double whammy, mainly because they are WoW classes, and other than the Paladin or Rogue, there isn't a very high chance that blizzard will use simillar classes across games.
I am not a hardcore fan of the necromancer, but if you are going to replace such a meaningful class, please choose wisely.
>>>They have chosen wisely. In fact, they've been working on it for several years. How can you say that this is not a good choice? Have you taken the time to watch the Class Discussion panel?
Why does the witch doctor have a fireball spell? THIS DOESNT MAKE SENSE. Fire should remain unique to the sorceress (unless you have elemental traps like the assassin in d2).
But a plain fireball spell?
>>> Witch Doctor implies that he is very handy with alchemical things. The devs explained that the "fireball" is an alchemical concotion inside a SKULL. Think about that one, and tell me if you still withhold your above statement?
I like the undead wall. The mongrels, locust swarm, horrify and other spells are pretty gay.
>>> Agreed on Undead wall. Disagreed on "gay," once again.
Just my thought. I have to admit, the WD Looks pretty ugly. His spells seem all over the place.
>>> Blizz Devs have put a lot of thought into all the class skills. There is reason behind all of them, and I don't feel you are searching hard enough.
The barbarian totally overshadowed the WD in the gameplay trailer.
>>> This I disagree with. Although they did give the Barbarian more time, the witch doctor really captured my eye, because barb was old news brought back to life. But this is all opinion.
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Witch doctors are notoriously thought of as crazy potion toting lunies and the fire bomb seems like an excelent choice to go with the them as well as many of the other moves you tossed aside as bad without one word to defend your view.
Don't get me wrong, feel free to hate this class as long as u want... that's your deal though and certainly not worth bringing to the forums... or at least unless you have a better arguement to stand on than personal taste and random conjecture... (-_-)
http://pc.ign.com/articles/885/885128p1.html
The witch doctor, on the other hand, seems to be more of a caster with a pet-control ability. Jay Wilson, a lead designer on Diablo III, said the witch doctor is not a replacement for Diablo II's necromancer. Witch doctors can cast a locust swarm that bounces between enemies, causing damage, or buffs the attack of any pets it's cast upon. He also gets a fire bomb ability, which appeared to be a limited range area of effect fire spell, and the more interesting wall of zombies attack. The latter sprouts a group of zombies out the ground and, while they don't appear to move, they do block enemies and swat at them with flailing arms.
Jackpot. Thanks a lot sandman53.
Magistrate, this seems to be the material you've been talking about. However, if this is the case, it may contradict to the thread about the 5 core classes being distinct.
If the WD has an undead tree, this WILL bleed into the necromancer's abilities.
If there really is a necromancer in D3, then there will only be 2 classes remaining. The sorceress and the amazon (considering i saw a short staff and short bow drop in the gameplay trailer).
This leaves out the paladin, assassin and the druid.
Ooo Eee Ooo Ah ah, ting tang walawala-bingbang...
Yes, true. However, nearly every DnD-type game (of which the skills of these games are marginally based) has a character(s) with undead skills. I don't *think* in my *opinion* that it would be replacement if he has undead skills. The Druid could summon spirits, which I *think* are undead since they're spirits. The Amazon can summon Valkyries, which are also a form of ghostly being according to Norse legend. Undead skills, while one of the main focuses of the Necromancer (hence his name), are also on other characters, as well, so I do not *think* that it would be replacement of soley the Necromancer.
Necromancers are, also, not a needed part of the character selection. They weren't in Diablo I and we got along just fine. Same with the paladin, who is just a "holy" version of the warrior (while the barbarian is the, I like to say, "secular" version, even though he does have religious history in the games.) There will always be the primary caster class, though, like the Mage or Sorceress. Also there will most likely always be the ranged bow-type class (given the last game introduced javelins and the like, so probably better referred to as the ranged class), since there was the Rogue and Amazon.
Sorry, truely, if what I said about the direction of this thread offended you, Sammy, but for the most part it is/was true. Some of the latest posts, however, are returning the actual factual debating here.
Fire bomb is basically fire blast from the Assassin's trap tree. I like it, a decent sort of filler spell, I think he's kind of an alchemist and it looks like a Molotov cocktail so it makes sense.
I like the variety in play, like you can summon pets, then buff them with the same spell your damaging opponents, and if you get too swarmed you can blow them up XD
Anyway 95% of the complaining on these forums is unfounded and just stupid... your all judging the game which hasn't even hit alpha yet from 20 minutes of a gameplay video in which you have no control in what you see.
Uh...there was only 5 classes in d2...and only 3 in d1 (not including the bard and the monk from hellfire cos technically they werent official). The hell are you complaining about? Besides, Diablo 2 expansion (LOD) added another 2 classes, making 7 total. Im sure there will be at least 1 d3 expansion, there has been an expansion for every warcraft/starcraft/diablo game ever made except warcraft 1.
Blizzard always shares ideas from other franchises, did you know that Witch-Doctor was also a unit used in WarCraft 3?
I've seen it and learned much about the WD. I am not alone here, a lot of people dislike the WD, THAT ALONE means they have not chosen wisely.
This is in regards to van's arguments.
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The Druid fit mainly because his summons were used as support and not as his main source of damage and killing. You could also make a viable build without using any of the summons.
The necro on the other hand was fairly gimped without corpses. A poison and bone necro (which I played) was very fun, but didn't exactly 'fit' in with everything else. To me, it seems like the Witch Doctor fits the Poison and Bone necro perfectly. He's got direct methods of killing his enemies, support spells, and some summons to support and distract his enemies... which is sort of what I always viewed the necro as.
Anywaaaay...
I like the way the Witch Doctor looks. I've always liked characters like this in games... shamanic and what not. Very cool that he has the shakes. His colorful nature actually fits him rather well and makes me happy that they're, at the very least, getting the classes dead on.
My only beef is that his locust swarm spell sort of gets lost in translation due to the green nature of the outside world and the blue-green glow of the inside world.
You're assuming that the necro is in the game all together... because the amazon from D2 didn't replace the rogue from D1 either :rolleyes:.
The WD seems to be a combination of the Druid and Necro. He's using elemental spells, a rabies-esque spell, summons, and other things that make him appear to be a combination of.
I wouldn't expect a pure summoning class, which sucks.
Druid? I don't see Witchdoctor using nature based elements, He's just throwing fire at people. And Druids didn't summon dead things, or demons or whatever the hell a mongrel is. My problem with WD is he just seems kinda random and out of place. Well, with places like Kurast maybe he isn't. ;/ Just seems like an odd type of person to be showing up to battle against hell and etc... He is pretty ugly too, but so was the necro, lol. Skeletons are cool tho.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Druid and Necro overlapped. Paladin and Barbarian overlapped. Assassin and Amazon overlapped. Sure, they could've brought back all the same classes and just removed all the abilities from them while calling them the same thing and then you'd be making threads complaining about that, but they decided to take the high road and develop a new set of classes while bringing back those that were especially interesting for their abilities. You may whine about why the Barbarian is back in Diablo 3, but if you know the background the Barbarian is the only class now to have been in all 3 Diablo games, though as a prototype class in the first.
So basically they're trying to make classes unique to themselves rather than ones that step on eachothers' toes. Classes with skill sets that allow no definite cookie-cutter builds.
The Witch Doctor behaves more like the Druid than the necro. Allow me to explain:
1. The WD and Druid both have summon spells that are not the focus of his power.
2. The WD and Druid both have damaging spells that can be the focus of his power.
3. The WD, like the Druid, has skills that pass an effect from enemy to enemy, similarly to Rabies.
All of these make him function much more like the Druid than the Necromancer. The parallels go further than just "lol fire and ice".