Sup etslayer, too bad your thread on diii.net got closed. I'm going to repost one of my responses from that thread that you never answered and see if maybe you will answer it here.
______________________________________________________________________
Hmm, a lot's happened since I last posted. Let's see if I can cover everything I want to.
let me start with this
This is just not true. I believe that you play your hardcore characters a certain way, but there is no reason to think that that is part of being hardcore. The one and only thing that changes when you check the hardcore box is that when you die, you do not respawn. That's it. It doesn't "take every single aspect of the game to the hardest possible degree". It just makes you not respawn. If I check hardcore will every unique monster have a devastating combo of attributes? Way more Multishot Lightning Enchanted than normally? More mobs of monsters that are harder than other potential spawns? Will my act 3 be as sprawling and maze-like as possible?
The answer to all those questions is "maybe, but it's no more likely than if you were softcore". So please, don't tell me that hardcore implicitly means you wouldn't mind getting PKed, because the box could be labeled "No Respawn" and it would do and mean exactly the same thing.
-=[]=-
It seems like not many people who are posting in this discussion followed the link I posted to an old but well detailed argument against PK, so I'll just repeat a lot of it here. (the link I posted was to http://sirian.warpcore.org/diablo2/protest.html if anyone here is interested) The fundamental problem people have with understanding why I and many others dislike PK so much is that they think "If the PK doesn't kill anyone, the PvM players have 'won' and his impact is trivial and meaningless." This is wrong. If I am playing a PvM game with people and a PKer joins and hostiles everyone in the game, he has ALREADY WON.
Now my options are:
1) continue play as normal and get killed by the PKer
2) run back to town and hope he leaves
3) join a different game
In any of these situations, my gameplay has been disrupted in a way that I never wanted to have happen to me. The PK may not have killed anyone, but he ruined our game, which was his goal. That is why I say that he has already won, so don't tell me that PKing is trivial because it's so easy to avoid death.
So what it basically boils down to is that the PK's dollar is worth more to the company than my own. We both bought Diablo 2 to play the game we wanted to play. I wanted to play the game advertised on the back of the box, and he wanted to play a game involving killing people who played the game on the back of the box. Apparently, his game is more important than mine. I understand people are saying "PvP is a critical and intrinsic part of playing on Battle.net", but I would disagree with that as well. The box for Diablo 2 didn't say anything about having every B.net game requiring PvP, or really anything about PvP at all. PKing was certainly not one of the main selling points of the game. Maybe a lot of people bought the game for PvP, but it was not touted as a reason why one should buy the game by Blizzard North.
So when I install this game with supposedly co-op multiplayer with a wide audience of people to meet and play with only to have my party get destroyed by some random person who wanted to ruin our day, what am I supposed to think? It's no coincidence that I stopped playing on B.net less than a month after I bought D2.
_________________________________________________________________________
By the way, I find it more than a little entertaining that you're still waving that quote I posted around like it justifies PKing in the game. Just because it was intended to be in the game does not mean it SHOULD be in the game. Not to mention, that when he said that he was not in any way speaking for the company, which if any of the pro-PK people had followed the link I posted initially, you would know. I only posted it anyway to correct someone who said PKing was an unintended side effect of the PvP system.
And here's my final statement from the last topic, right before it got closed:
A type of gameplay that requires conflict with UNWILLING PARTICIPANTS is a divisive, anti-social, hurtful style of play with no regard for others' feelings or wishes. It should not be in the game.
You are just a carebear punk, man up you pansy.
If you even played D1 and D2 as long as I have you would know PK is part of THIS game and it WILL be impelemented in D3 or this game will be unsuccessful. Pk made this game, I doubt you are even a decent player when it comes to Diablo. Just some constructive push over that thinks he can win over a thread with faulty intellect.
You have not addressed the largest and most concrete justification for the removal of PK (assumedly) in D3:
The dev. team has specifically stated and re-stated the D3 is first an foremost a co-operative game. This statement alone clearly reveals (as does the cited post) Blizzard's stance on PK'ing in D3.
that just means that the new team knows nothing about Diablo games. they're still thinking in their WoW state of mind. the Diablo series is as much competitive as it is cooperative, if not more.
that said I love the argument and vote that PK stays.
I want to play with players at my level. I want to play in private games. I want to keep people I don't know out of my games. That's what those features are for first and foremost.
As an added bonus they work pretty good against PK prevention.
Learn to use them, you're gaming experience will be 100 times better.
Playing with characters your own lvl is fine and all, but it restricts friends from entering your game to say hi, or to bother you when they're bored, et cetera. I always hated it when I tried to enter a friend's game in boredom, and then there was some password (lvl restriction would be similar to this).
Private games defeats the purpose of PLAYING ONLINE.
I want to play with people I don't know. Otherwise, I would play single player.
that just means that the new team knows nothing about Diablo games. they're still thinking in their WoW state of mind. the Diablo series is as much competitive as it is cooperative, if not more.
that said I love the argument and vote that PK stays.
PK? How is PKing competitive? While I agree that the system is fine as is (it is fun to randomly kill one another for fun, screwing around), I am adamantly against PK.
D3 is centered around cooperative play, and that can't be achieved very well with games having to be closed all the time to avoid PKs.
PKing might not even BE in Diablo.
PvP will still be there though.
Yes it can. Got friends? You might want to look into that....
In fact when I played D2 I was in a private pvp clan that was close to 50 people strong. We had our own rules based on balance issues and went from there. You may have heard of GimmeItam on USWest?
I never played in public games. EVER. Always with friends. Always in private games.
PK? How is PKing competitive? While I agree that the system is fine as is (it is fun to randomly kill one another for fun, screwing around), I am adamantly against PK.
I dont know about you, but for me it was one of the things that drove me to make much stronger characters.
This would divide people to a great degree and defeat what they're trying to accomplish, cooperative game play.
If you're talking about what I think you are. Like softcore, hardcore, PVP softcore, PVP hardcore.
Who cares, if that's the sacrifice that has to be made then I'm all for it because I don't wanna be apart of a bunch of carebear punks that think in their minds once they reach lvl 99 are still just going to be killing shit. what are you going to do then huh punk? I mean no one cares about you so showing off your gear is pointless right? The cool crowd is the PvP crowd.
Translation: Anyone who doesn't enjoy ganking people 30 levels lower than them, instead of a fair fight, is a carebear punk. Don't want your gaming interrupted, too bad, bitch, because I wasn't hugged enough as a child and need to put the hurt on some internet nerds! KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN. Feel my wrath!
If you even played D1 and D2 as long as I have you would know PK is part of THIS game and it WILL be impelemented in D3 or this game will be unsuccessful.
Translation: All this nonesense about coop and the classes being meant to synergize with eachother is garbage. It's a dog eat dog world out there. If you aren't dropping group and ganking your party during a baal run so you can have all the loot, then you aren't playing it right.
Pk made this game, I doubt you are even a decent player when it comes to Diablo. Just some constructive push over that thinks he can win over a thread with faulty intellect.
Translation: This game didn't succeed because of an entertaining story, good graphics, innovative gameplay. No, it sold well because it allowed me to harass you. If PK wasn't in this game, it would have died in beta. Who's with me, right? Let's go get a protein shake!
Yes it can. Got friends? You might want to look into that....
In fact when I played D2 I was in a private pvp clan that was close to 50 people strong. We had our own rules based on balance issues and went from there. You may have heard of GimmeItam on USWest?
I never played in public games. EVER. Always with friends. Always in private games.
I have plenty of friends thank you but not all of them are into computer games like me.
That's fine and dandy for people who want to be in clans but what about new players?
Also as a SIDE NOTE: come one people this D2 were talking about here. Not WoW, not some huge time sink of an MMO. Quitting the game and starting a new one is not that big of a deal.
Here's some of my arguments against Player Killing:
* It's a relic of the old age. Lineage and Lineage 2 are similar games.
* It's unfair, based on ambush rather than skill, and it sucks.
* It isn't friendly to new gamers.
* There is no level playing field. There are no rules of combat and the game isn't balanced for PK'ing. Certain classes are at a permanant disadvantage in a PK situation. Critical attacks and stunning dominate over all the others. This is unlike a group PvP situation where each class may compliment other classes with their abilities.
* It isn't friendly to social gamers who just want to have a good time with random parties without being griefed.
* It isn't friendly to casual gamers who have long work hours and just want to enjoy the game.
* It isn't friendly to achievers who look for levels, items, not grief. They don't want to lose all their stuff in HC mode to some random douchebag.
* The only people enjoying it are the PK'ers, which are the minority of players.
* It's Blizzard's game, not yours or Max Schaefer's (a man whom I totally respect), who no longer works at Blizzard. His vision worked for Diablo 2, but it isn't what we want in Diablo 3.
Who cares, if that's the sacrifice that has to be made then I'm all for it because I don't wanna be apart of a bunch of carebear punks that think in their minds once they reach lvl 99 are still just going to be killing shit. what are you going to do then huh punk? I mean no one cares about you so showing off your gear is pointless right? The cool crowd is the PvP crowd.
I honestly hope you're kidding. I enjoy PvP, but random PKing just doesn't serve a purpose.
Also as a SIDE NOTE: come one people this D2 were talking about here. Not WoW, not some huge time sink of an MMO. Quitting the game and starting a new one is not that big of a deal.
This is D3 we're talking about not D2. D3 is meant to be more cooperative. This is also 8 years later since D2 was released, a lot of things have changed.
I honestly hope you're kidding. I enjoy PvP, but random PKing just doesn't serve a purpose.
It creates a more open ended gaming experience. I hate to use WoW as an example but playing on a PvP server leveling from 1-60 was one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I've had.
What about them? They can't join a clan. There's only 1000 of them out there,
Oh wait, add that to the list:
Join a Clan.
So in order to play without being PKd I should, set a level limit, make it a private game, join a clan, only play with friends, and go to town or leave the game if a PK comes.
That's a lot of work for many players when on the other hand, PKing can be disabled, problem solved for many people.
So in order to play without being PKd I should, set a level limit, make it a private game, join a clan, only play with friends, and go to town or leave the game if a PK comes.
That's a lot of work for many players when on the other hand, PKing can be disabled, problem solved for many people.
Let's be serious here... how often was this really ever a problem? 1 out of 20 games? 50 games?
Unless you're soloing all the time in public games? I fail to understand how anyone could possibly have a problem avoiding someone trying to kill them in D2. You quite possible would have to be brain dead.
Let's be serious here... how often was this really ever a problem? 1 out of 20 games? 50 games?
Unless you're soloing all the time in public games? I fail to understand how anyone could possibly have a problem avoiding someone trying to kill them in D2. You quite possible would have to be brain dead.
In D2 it wasn't a absurdly critical problem for me. In D3, I'd much rather focus on cooperative play than have this problem at all.
It's not like me saying no to PKing is what is deciding it all, Bashiok has stated PKing isn't a popular feature in the game to the majority so that might not stay, but PvP will still be there.
That would be fine, except it's not a PvP environment, it was intended to be a cooperative environment that benefited people in terms of loot. It evolved into a PvP environment when PKing got out of hand.
Except that the other 2 games promoted PK and yet here they are.
Those 2 games were as popular as they were because of that aspect of the game, to ignore it is to be a fool or a ignorant BEAR SAVER.
Let's be serious here... how often was this really ever a problem? 1 out of 20 games? 50 games?
Unless you're soloing all the time in public games? I fail to understand how anyone could possibly have a problem avoiding someone trying to kill them in D2. You quite possible would have to be brain dead.
When you are doing meph runs, the last thing you want is to run into a PKer. It's just no fun, man.
You are just a carebear punk, man up you pansy.
If you even played D1 and D2 as long as I have you would know PK is part of THIS game and it WILL be impelemented in D3 or this game will be unsuccessful. Pk made this game, I doubt you are even a decent player when it comes to Diablo. Just some constructive push over that thinks he can win over a thread with faulty intellect.
that said I love the argument and vote that PK stays.
Playing with characters your own lvl is fine and all, but it restricts friends from entering your game to say hi, or to bother you when they're bored, et cetera. I always hated it when I tried to enter a friend's game in boredom, and then there was some password (lvl restriction would be similar to this).
Private games defeats the purpose of PLAYING ONLINE.
I want to play with people I don't know. Otherwise, I would play single player.
PK? How is PKing competitive? While I agree that the system is fine as is (it is fun to randomly kill one another for fun, screwing around), I am adamantly against PK.
Yes it can. Got friends? You might want to look into that....
In fact when I played D2 I was in a private pvp clan that was close to 50 people strong. We had our own rules based on balance issues and went from there. You may have heard of GimmeItam on USWest?
I never played in public games. EVER. Always with friends. Always in private games.
Who cares, if that's the sacrifice that has to be made then I'm all for it because I don't wanna be apart of a bunch of carebear punks that think in their minds once they reach lvl 99 are still just going to be killing shit. what are you going to do then huh punk? I mean no one cares about you so showing off your gear is pointless right? The cool crowd is the PvP crowd.
Translation: Anyone who doesn't enjoy ganking people 30 levels lower than them, instead of a fair fight, is a carebear punk. Don't want your gaming interrupted, too bad, bitch, because I wasn't hugged enough as a child and need to put the hurt on some internet nerds! KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN. Feel my wrath!
Translation: All this nonesense about coop and the classes being meant to synergize with eachother is garbage. It's a dog eat dog world out there. If you aren't dropping group and ganking your party during a baal run so you can have all the loot, then you aren't playing it right.
Translation: This game didn't succeed because of an entertaining story, good graphics, innovative gameplay. No, it sold well because it allowed me to harass you. If PK wasn't in this game, it would have died in beta. Who's with me, right? Let's go get a protein shake!
PS: TPPK is balling! It better stay in!
I have plenty of friends thank you but not all of them are into computer games like me.
That's fine and dandy for people who want to be in clans but what about new players?
* It's a relic of the old age. Lineage and Lineage 2 are similar games.
* It's unfair, based on ambush rather than skill, and it sucks.
* It isn't friendly to new gamers.
* There is no level playing field. There are no rules of combat and the game isn't balanced for PK'ing. Certain classes are at a permanant disadvantage in a PK situation. Critical attacks and stunning dominate over all the others. This is unlike a group PvP situation where each class may compliment other classes with their abilities.
* It isn't friendly to social gamers who just want to have a good time with random parties without being griefed.
* It isn't friendly to casual gamers who have long work hours and just want to enjoy the game.
* It isn't friendly to achievers who look for levels, items, not grief. They don't want to lose all their stuff in HC mode to some random douchebag.
* The only people enjoying it are the PK'ers, which are the minority of players.
* It's Blizzard's game, not yours or Max Schaefer's (a man whom I totally respect), who no longer works at Blizzard. His vision worked for Diablo 2, but it isn't what we want in Diablo 3.
Hellforge: Forging a passion for video games.
I honestly hope you're kidding. I enjoy PvP, but random PKing just doesn't serve a purpose.
What about them? They can't join a clan. There's only 1000 of them out there,
Oh wait, add that to the list:
Join a Clan.
This is D3 we're talking about not D2. D3 is meant to be more cooperative. This is also 8 years later since D2 was released, a lot of things have changed.
It creates a more open ended gaming experience. I hate to use WoW as an example but playing on a PvP server leveling from 1-60 was one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I've had.
So in order to play without being PKd I should, set a level limit, make it a private game, join a clan, only play with friends, and go to town or leave the game if a PK comes.
That's a lot of work for many players when on the other hand, PKing can be disabled, problem solved for many people.
Let's be serious here... how often was this really ever a problem? 1 out of 20 games? 50 games?
Unless you're soloing all the time in public games? I fail to understand how anyone could possibly have a problem avoiding someone trying to kill them in D2. You quite possible would have to be brain dead.
In D2 it wasn't a absurdly critical problem for me. In D3, I'd much rather focus on cooperative play than have this problem at all.
It's not like me saying no to PKing is what is deciding it all, Bashiok has stated PKing isn't a popular feature in the game to the majority so that might not stay, but PvP will still be there.
Except that the other 2 games promoted PK and yet here they are.
Those 2 games were as popular as they were because of that aspect of the game, to ignore it is to be a fool or a ignorant BEAR SAVER.
When you are doing meph runs, the last thing you want is to run into a PKer. It's just no fun, man.
Hellforge: Forging a passion for video games.