I think you should be able to buy useful items at least at the beginning (first 3 acts on normal difficulty) but the prices should be so high that you would have to save your gold for that particular item and not be able to buy other useful items for a while.
basically like that is what i meant =3
its just has to be in a middle field and so you dont get a whole lot of gold from drops even in hell difficulty
i think items true usefulness value should be factored into the npc price
instead of getting armor that had this mediocre ability and sold for a ton of money like field plate sold for a lot even with no magical properties lol
But if the gold is worth more, how different do you think it will get?
I understand where you are coming from, but overall the currency system of Diablo hasn't been something that makes it stand out. And even then, Diablo 1 used a method similar to what will happen in D3, and it rocked!
ofc i wasnt but it is widely used in wow which actually is a blizz game...what was the last blizz game that used a gold exchange system?...Thats right WoW
That's like saying "Diablo 3 wants to use weapons to attack with? They totally stole that from WoW!!"
Gold being used as currency wasn't invented in WoW...Nor was it invented in video games for that matter. If gold is going to be there it better be worth something.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
why do you think the d2 system is broken.... minus the dupes the system would work flawlessly
...and the bots and hacks.
I agree with if it aint broke don't fix it, but that puts a certain limitation on innovation. This isn't another D2 expansion, it shouldn't feel like an extension of it. Take D1 for example. A great game, many followers, lots of fun. But when D2 came along, it changed quite a lot. That doesn't mean it was bad. I for one enjoy D2 more than D1, as I'm sure many people do. Just because there are going to be changes doesn't mean it's going to vary from the Diablo experience.
As for people that say D3 is stealing ideas from WoW, just realize this: WoW came out a few years after LoD, with no similar games in between. They had ideas of how to make certain things from D2 better, and so they implemented the changes (tweaked of course) into WoW. I, personally, don't care for WoW, didn't hold my attention for long, but it obviously worked to have drawn so many fans. Now that D3 is coming, they are doing the same thing: taking ideas from their last succesful game and tweaking them slightly for Diablo playstyle. If WoW had never happened, D3 would end up the same way it will be. Maybe not at first since they wouldn't know exactly how ideas would work, but in the end I think it would end up the same way.
As long as the feel of Diablo remains the same, everything will be fine, just fine. (meaning please, please no auto-targeting )
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
Personally i hope they will make a new system based on both WoW and Diablo 2.
Hopefully they will find a way to make gold worth something aswell as not too hard nor too easy to obtain.
Right, that's what I was trying to say. They will take the idea of gold being used as currency, then tweak it to D3. I don't want a "copy / paste" from WoW, that would not work. They need to change it to fit Diablo and I'm sure that Blizzard has a few ideas how they can make it better.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
WoW doesn't have three currencies. 100 copper fit into a single piece of silver and 100 silver fit into one piece of gold. If you have 14 gold and 99 silver and pick up one piece of silver, you have 15 gold sharp.
I'm not going to post anything about the advantages of gold vs barter system but just post some basic concepts for any in game currency-based economy to function. Like a real economy, there is a balance between supply, and demand for that supply. If supply goes down, prices go up, inversely if supply goes up, prices fall. The problem of most online games is that the supply of items does not keep up to the increase in the amount of available currency.
In order for a balanced economy to function it needs built in 'sinks' which remove the currency from circulation. Many games have different methods of creating currency sinks.
Some sinks include: (I don't think that all of these would fit into a diablo game, but they all fulfill the sinks objective, they remove currency from the game)
- Expendable Items (1 time use items, eg. potions, scrolls, temporary stat buffs)
- Item Modifiers (anything that changes an item's properties stats or properties, eg. adding sockets, enchants, color/appearance changes)
- Upkeep/Service Costs (eg. item durability, food, decurse/disenchant negative buffs, Auction costs, death related costs, cohorts)
- Permanent Character Changes (any changes to a character/account eg. Increased bag space, mount, appearance changes, respec, skill training)
- Gambling (gambling for items with a general negative return, like at a casino ;))
- Non-Impact Items (things that cost money yet have no gameplay return)
A example of a D3-unique sink would be a cost for runing your abilities (requires a NPC to use, or a purchased Item). Obviously I missed plenty of possible sinks, many of which have already see play in other games.
Another problem that many games have is that given the upper levels of items are always unlocked by the highest levels of characters, along with less powerful items, while alts and new players are constantly unlocking new lower power items. This means a 'glut' of lower power items develops and these items don't have a comparable return for new players after this glut develops. This is a reverse effect of overabundance of gold. Having items vendored for gold wouldn't fully balance this, and it would counteract the gold sinks.
Two possible methods for creating item sinks include:
- WoW used a bind on equip/pickup property on its items to prevent this. I doubt many people would feel binding items fits in with the diablo franchise way of handling drops. But something needs to be done in order to stop the over accumulation of items from creating a devaluation (from an over-abundance of supply).
- The disenchant skill was another item-sink WoW employed, and many adaptions of a similar system could be developed. They could include creation of temporary buffs, item enchants, or be the method of obtaining items like town portals.
Again, there are many other methods available; reducing total item durability, like the warriors repair ability in d1 would be one of them.
On top of balancing the item and gold sinks, the drop quantities also needs to be balanced, which way blizzard worked from doesn't really matter they could set the drops and then balance the sinks or vise-versa, or ease both sinks and their sources simultaneously.
Other methods of balancing the economy could include relative costs related to the general state of the economy. Such as item repairs are relative to the amount of gold in circulation and the average level of character. Though such an option would be complex and confusing. This sort of system would also likely come coupled with diminishing returns coding to prevent power-gaming from greatly derailing the economy (diminishing returns could even be implemented without this sort of setup. Don't forget blizzard makes money off of games sold/subscriptions, hardcore gamers aren't any better of customers once the games sold or as long as you have a subscription)
But without balancing the in-game economy, players will decide on a different working currency (like gems or runes), and something such as d2jsp will form (likely quicker then it did with d2). Overall Blizz has a lot of work cut out for them and I'm not envious
Well it could work actually. Imagine if random mobs drop only a few copper and some silver later in the game, and bosses drop a few gold. Would work perfectly imo. Although they would have to make bosses harder to prevent easy gold farming (considering that gold is going to be worth something)
But im not saying that this is the way they should go..
I'm not saying it wouldn't work, I'm just saying imagine the forums' reaction. They would Fuh-REAK.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
Personally, I am all for a system that allows players to buy items from other players using gold. There are plenty of items that just have little or no value on the current D2 market, that are great for low level characters.
An example of this would be low level uniques and rares. You just can't trade for them because there is little or no benefit to keeping them.
Even though for those who don't or can't get runeword items, they are very viable alternatives.
As for the economy itself....Bots or no bots, duping or no duping, the economy in D2 is and has been more or less broken for a very extended period of time.
The advantage presented by making gold have a true value in the game would be that it would be a bit of an equalizer between those who play 10 hours a day and those who do not. Plus, I think it would by its very nature make bottin and duping less viable.
When you get right down to it, having an in game economy that is not dependant on found items would be significantly more stable and manageable then what currently exists.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Fool! You have just ensured the doom of this world. You cannot even begin to imagine what you've set in motion this day. Go to the Temple of Light, in the eastern ciry of Kurast. There you will find the gate to Hell opened before you. You must find the courage to step through that gate Marius. Take the stone you hold to the Hellforge, where it will be destroyed. Now run! Take the stone and run!"
I don't see a problem with items, rings, runes, or anything besides gold being used as currency. The problem is when your currency becomes items that have been duplicated and can disappear on you.
I do agree with angelmaz that it is enjoyable to increase your "wealth" through skillful trading. There is some sense of accomplishment that comes from bartering with other players and sometimes getting your way. Like many of you, I do not have a plethora of time to devote to picking up gold here and there to make my character a worthy and wealthy opponent.
Like many of you, I do not have a plethora of time to devote to picking up gold here and there to make my character a worthy and wealthy opponent.
Iirc, in D3 you just have to run over gold to pick it up. And if they make it valuable, there won't be lots and lots of gold everywhere. It will become rarer, so there won't be piles of it littering the screen.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
I did read one of the previous blizzcasts where they said that they really want to make gold meaning full... and even not have to spend it on point less things like armor and stuff... I dont know i was even under the impression that they wanted you to be able to purchase from npcs actual useful items and not just pot refill and repair/rez merc
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
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basically like that is what i meant =3
its just has to be in a middle field and so you dont get a whole lot of gold from drops even in hell difficulty
i think items true usefulness value should be factored into the npc price
instead of getting armor that had this mediocre ability and sold for a ton of money like field plate sold for a lot even with no magical properties lol
Be my Buddy =^.^=
I understand where you are coming from, but overall the currency system of Diablo hasn't been something that makes it stand out. And even then, Diablo 1 used a method similar to what will happen in D3, and it rocked!
Gold exchange wasn't invented by WoW.
That's like saying "Diablo 3 wants to use weapons to attack with? They totally stole that from WoW!!"
Gold being used as currency wasn't invented in WoW...Nor was it invented in video games for that matter. If gold is going to be there it better be worth something.
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
...and the bots and hacks.
I agree with if it aint broke don't fix it, but that puts a certain limitation on innovation. This isn't another D2 expansion, it shouldn't feel like an extension of it. Take D1 for example. A great game, many followers, lots of fun. But when D2 came along, it changed quite a lot. That doesn't mean it was bad. I for one enjoy D2 more than D1, as I'm sure many people do. Just because there are going to be changes doesn't mean it's going to vary from the Diablo experience.
As for people that say D3 is stealing ideas from WoW, just realize this: WoW came out a few years after LoD, with no similar games in between. They had ideas of how to make certain things from D2 better, and so they implemented the changes (tweaked of course) into WoW. I, personally, don't care for WoW, didn't hold my attention for long, but it obviously worked to have drawn so many fans. Now that D3 is coming, they are doing the same thing: taking ideas from their last succesful game and tweaking them slightly for Diablo playstyle. If WoW had never happened, D3 would end up the same way it will be. Maybe not at first since they wouldn't know exactly how ideas would work, but in the end I think it would end up the same way.
As long as the feel of Diablo remains the same, everything will be fine, just fine. (meaning please, please no auto-targeting
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
Right, that's what I was trying to say. They will take the idea of gold being used as currency, then tweak it to D3. I don't want a "copy / paste" from WoW, that would not work. They need to change it to fit Diablo and I'm sure that Blizzard has a few ideas how they can make it better.
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
In order for a balanced economy to function it needs built in 'sinks' which remove the currency from circulation. Many games have different methods of creating currency sinks.
Some sinks include: (I don't think that all of these would fit into a diablo game, but they all fulfill the sinks objective, they remove currency from the game)
- Expendable Items (1 time use items, eg. potions, scrolls, temporary stat buffs)
- Item Modifiers (anything that changes an item's properties stats or properties, eg. adding sockets, enchants, color/appearance changes)
- Upkeep/Service Costs (eg. item durability, food, decurse/disenchant negative buffs, Auction costs, death related costs, cohorts)
- Permanent Character Changes (any changes to a character/account eg. Increased bag space, mount, appearance changes, respec, skill training)
- Gambling (gambling for items with a general negative return, like at a casino ;))
- Non-Impact Items (things that cost money yet have no gameplay return)
A example of a D3-unique sink would be a cost for runing your abilities (requires a NPC to use, or a purchased Item). Obviously I missed plenty of possible sinks, many of which have already see play in other games.
Another problem that many games have is that given the upper levels of items are always unlocked by the highest levels of characters, along with less powerful items, while alts and new players are constantly unlocking new lower power items. This means a 'glut' of lower power items develops and these items don't have a comparable return for new players after this glut develops. This is a reverse effect of overabundance of gold. Having items vendored for gold wouldn't fully balance this, and it would counteract the gold sinks.
Two possible methods for creating item sinks include:
- WoW used a bind on equip/pickup property on its items to prevent this. I doubt many people would feel binding items fits in with the diablo franchise way of handling drops. But something needs to be done in order to stop the over accumulation of items from creating a devaluation (from an over-abundance of supply).
- The disenchant skill was another item-sink WoW employed, and many adaptions of a similar system could be developed. They could include creation of temporary buffs, item enchants, or be the method of obtaining items like town portals.
Again, there are many other methods available; reducing total item durability, like the warriors repair ability in d1 would be one of them.
On top of balancing the item and gold sinks, the drop quantities also needs to be balanced, which way blizzard worked from doesn't really matter they could set the drops and then balance the sinks or vise-versa, or ease both sinks and their sources simultaneously.
Other methods of balancing the economy could include relative costs related to the general state of the economy. Such as item repairs are relative to the amount of gold in circulation and the average level of character. Though such an option would be complex and confusing. This sort of system would also likely come coupled with diminishing returns coding to prevent power-gaming from greatly derailing the economy (diminishing returns could even be implemented without this sort of setup. Don't forget blizzard makes money off of games sold/subscriptions, hardcore gamers aren't any better of customers once the games sold or as long as you have a subscription)
But without balancing the in-game economy, players will decide on a different working currency (like gems or runes), and something such as d2jsp will form (likely quicker then it did with d2). Overall Blizz has a lot of work cut out for them and I'm not envious
I'm not saying it wouldn't work, I'm just saying imagine the forums' reaction. They would Fuh-REAK.
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
An example of this would be low level uniques and rares. You just can't trade for them because there is little or no benefit to keeping them.
Even though for those who don't or can't get runeword items, they are very viable alternatives.
As for the economy itself....Bots or no bots, duping or no duping, the economy in D2 is and has been more or less broken for a very extended period of time.
The advantage presented by making gold have a true value in the game would be that it would be a bit of an equalizer between those who play 10 hours a day and those who do not. Plus, I think it would by its very nature make bottin and duping less viable.
When you get right down to it, having an in game economy that is not dependant on found items would be significantly more stable and manageable then what currently exists.
I do agree with angelmaz that it is enjoyable to increase your "wealth" through skillful trading. There is some sense of accomplishment that comes from bartering with other players and sometimes getting your way. Like many of you, I do not have a plethora of time to devote to picking up gold here and there to make my character a worthy and wealthy opponent.
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Iirc, in D3 you just have to run over gold to pick it up. And if they make it valuable, there won't be lots and lots of gold everywhere. It will become rarer, so there won't be piles of it littering the screen.
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War