After reading and watching the Jay Wilson interview regarding the proposed Runestone changes, I have to say I'm a little confused and share some of Sixen's concerns.
Let's take the Wizard, for example. In the runestone video, each color rune changes the Ray of Frost skill in slightly different ways. Now, let's say that I've played the game, have experimented with all 5 runes for this skill and decide the best one for my build is the one that changes it to a swirling vortex. So, logically I will now want to find a higher rank of that specific rune so I can put it in that skill. This makes other runes less valuable for that skill, but not necessarily for other skills as I may need a different color for Arcane Missiles, etc.
Now, the proposed system as I'm understanding it (which everybody is more than welcome to correct if I'm way off base), is that runes will no longer drop as a certain color - they drop as grey or whatever. Then you place that rune into a skill and it becomes that skill's rune. Here's where my confusion about everything comes into play. Will you have any idea ahead of time what effect that rune will have on that skill - ie what color that rune will end up being? The way it was described seems like some sort of crazy lottery where you will never know what color rune it will end up as before placing it into a skill. In my above example, it no longer seems like it's possible to pursue a particular color rune for a particular effect because you won't know before you potentially waste it on a skill.
However, if runes do drop as specific colors (crimson, indigo and so on), but become locked once placed into a skill, then that seems like a viable reworking of the rune system as you could still know the effect ahead of time and go for certain rune types based on builds as well as adding weight to your choices of which skills get which runes. Personally, this is one system where knowing and planning ahead of time is worthwhile. The Diablo theory of drops still works as you could go hundreds of runs without getting the specific rune you want. But, with the AH and trading, your unwanted runes aren't ever worthless because there is no doubt someone who will need or want them.
TL;DR: Basically, will runes still drop as a certain color but grey for a skill (meaning they can be placed into ANY skill initially), or do they drop with no color and it becomes a lottery to find out what type it is by placing it into a skill?
i am confused too i must say. The rune system is what make me sooo excited about diablo 3. Perhaps if i can understand correctly the revamp i will be too but for the moment, that killed my excitement.
So they said that they will be gray and when you put them in a slot they will get a color and some random stats.
Now the questions are...
-Once you know the stats , can you get it out to put in another item?
-Does is replace the rune inside? (like a gem in WOW that you socket over it?)
-So if it does, lets keep the wizard exemple. You had a crimson rune, giving you a vortex ability that you looooved and the rune was giving you +15 intelligence. Now you find a rank 2 rune and put it in. You get Lesser cost to sustain with +15 stenght.................................................. what a downgrade! Losing youre intelligence spell bonus and the swirling vortex that you loved for youre build? So now you need to farm runes until you find one that you socket and will be crimson (just saying , dont remember the vortex color) and will have the stats you want... it can take a long time and will NOT be really fun
What would be fun in my opinion
-You got a crimson rune rank1 +15 int and you find a crimson rune rank2 +3 int +3vit.... hmmmm.. do you change?
Now this is fun and actually make me wanna drop more runes to min/max.
Not knowing the color or the bonus before i socket it on another rune (if it doesnt replace/break the other one its fine though), im not sure i like that sort of gamble
I mean I totally understood Jay's points in the interview, when he says that the actual rune system creates so much confusion but I find that solution they're about to try (remember, like he said, it's pure theory they haven't even tested yet and it could totally suck) very... cryptic and too vague, just too shady.
So I dunno, I guess I kind of hope secretly that this new idea of theirs is gonna fail miserably...
The only runes that drop are "gray runes" of one of the X levels. You equip it in a skill, and it becomes one of any 5 types, and also adds a skill specific bonus (depending on the skill you set it into).
The change is permanent and the rune can only be used with the same skill now.
The only runes that drop are "gray runes" of one of the X levels. You equip it in a skill, and it becomes one of any 5 types, and also adds a skill specific bonus (depending on the skill you set it into).
The change is permanent and the rune can only be used with the same skill now.
(but all that was just an idea, right...?)
So, wait... what's the difference compared to the actual system ? In term of being too confusing / lacks visibility as they say ?
It's even worse, if it's just "bland" or "gray" or whatever.... you just won't have any idea what it'll do on any skill. I'm so herpderpin on that system, I'm really trying tho.
Its just kind of saying that.. instead of it being randomized when dropped, its randomized when put in a skill. So it gives you a certain level of control over the randomization, but it limits what one rune can do completely.
But the "base" effect (like just adding more projectiles to say magic missiles) would always be the same ? It's just some random affixes added to the rune ONCE you socket it and it becomes that skill's rune forever then ?
*EDIT* Ok sorry, lemme try to explain myself better : no matter the rank of a gray/blank rune you drop, it'll always do the same base effect on a given skill ?
Like Magic Missile : I drop a rank 1 rune on magic missile, SCHWING (official sound effect as stated) it now adds 1 more projectile AND some random stats / affixes to it, and if I was to drop a rank 7 rune and socket it on that same skill, magic missile, then the bast effect is the same meaning it adds even more projectiles (say 8 total) AND even better random stats / affixes.
No, no, thats randomly decided when you use a gray rune. So randomly it might become a Crimson (one of the 5 type) rune, with a +10 to attack rating. The next gray one you use could be an obsidian rune with +5 damage. The bonus stat is just a bonus, you still get a complete skill change depending on what type of rune it turns out to be.
If 5 types of runes is too much for them to handle, they should remove 2 of them (could be Indigo and Golden, or Crimson and Alabaster, whatever) and keep the system as it is.
I couldn't understand jack about the "rune system" revamp, I couldn't even figure out if the rune "types" are going to stay (Crimson, Alabaster, etc) or they're going to be changed into "Magic Missile rune", "Arcane Orb rune", and those are going to be the rune types. Jay's reasoning for the rework, and explanation into what they want to turn the system are both crappy as hell.
"It becomes too overwhelming for the player to choose because there's too many runes" - ok, by that logic let's reduce the number of possible items to 2 for each class, to make choosing easier. Dozens of items is too much, how am I supposed to know if an Axe is better than a Sword? OMG, less is more!!!
The system was perfect as it was, simple and efficient. Crimson rune, boosts dmg for skills 1 and 2, makes skill 3 deal fire dmg instead, makes skill 4 (say it's Blizzard) turn into a "constant lava rock 'blizzard' around the player for 5 seconds" and adds a 10 second cooldown. HOW in the world is that "overwhelming" information? Their testers are just bad =/
No, no, thats randomly decided when you use a gray rune. So randomly it might become a Crimson (one of the 5 type) rune, with a +10 to attack rating. The next gray one you use could be an obsidian rune with +5 damage. The bonus stat is just a bonus, you still get a complete skill change depending on what type of rune it turns out to be.
Yeah but didn't they say that once you socket it, it becomes say "Magic missile rune of blahblah" ? That would mean the whole indigo / alabastar etc names and colors things would no longer exist ? Because I loved that
lol, I thought I was confused because my poor grasp of english, but since this is the 4th post about runes I've seen today seems the issue is confusing.
I think runes will still be grouped as Crimson, Indigo, Alabaster and so on and also they will work as we have seen so far but for the random stats and the fact that once you put it into a skill it will be "locked", so once you used an indigo on magic missile you can only use it again on magic missile and is no more an Indigo rune (I guess this mean if you use a rank 5 rune you can't unsocket it and use it to obtain a rank 6, that's way Jay was talking about salvaging "locked" runes)
I definetly hope someone will tell us more about this approach even if all of this is still "theoretic" and may not make it in the final release.
like i said, i love the rune system as it is and the way they said they would like to change it doesnt please me and make too much gamble and possible chance of weakening my character. lemme explain
lets take the magic missile spell. Ill put random effect because i dont know how the rune will change it.
Crimson : multi magic missile , one more per rank
Golden : reduce magic resistance of the enemy
Alabaster: make the magic missile pass through the enemy, giving more change to hit.
So lets say you are a fan of having more magic missiles, so you have a rank 1 crimson rune in youre missile with a +15 intelligence bonus (since they want to add stats to them). You find a rank 2 rune that is gray. You say "hmmmm might be a potential upgrade!" So you socket it in youre magic missile , thus losing youre +15 int and crimson multi missile perk. Now instead it is a gamble , you receive for exemple a rank 2 golden with +15 strenght on it. So now you lost youre ability to cast more missiles per cast for a magic resistance reduction and you lost youre +15 int for a +15 strenght that you dont need, basically downgrading you really bad.
I am really not against rune with stats on it so it would make me search for more and doing runs for them to try to maximise that particular spell with that particular color, wich would already take alot of time. If they put the color and the stats unknown until you equip it... it will be really bad... really really bad. Because the goal is to make youre character progress, this system have alot of possibility to make the character take a step backward ... for how much time? How much will it take me to find the rune that i want? It is not enjoyable by any means.
What I'd like to see is it would drop as a rune with a stat.
Then you socket it into a skill and it locks into that skill. So say you put a crimson in magic missile it a "Crimson magic missile rune" or whatever. So you can't move it around.
So if you find a Indigo rune with +20 Attack you'll know basically what it'll do and if it'll be good for what you want.
They should just have runes show a small video when moused over a skill so the people know if they make like the effect. Makes it more accessible and when people find stuff, it would be nearly as confusing as to whether it will suck.
like i said, i love the rune system as it is and the way they said they would like to change it doesnt please me and make too much gamble and possible chance of weakening my character. lemme explain
lets take the magic missile spell. Ill put random effect because i dont know how the rune will change it.
Crimson : multi magic missile , one more per rank
Golden : reduce magic resistance of the enemy
Alabaster: make the magic missile pass through the enemy, giving more change to hit.
So lets say you are a fan of having more magic missiles, so you have a rank 1 crimson rune in youre missile with a +15 intelligence bonus (since they want to add stats to them). You find a rank 2 rune that is gray. You say "hmmmm might be a potential upgrade!" So you socket it in youre magic missile , thus losing youre +15 int and crimson multi missile perk. Now instead it is a gamble , you receive for exemple a rank 2 golden with +15 strenght on it. So now you lost youre ability to cast more missiles per cast for a magic resistance reduction and you lost youre +15 int for a +15 strenght that you dont need, basically downgrading you really bad.
I am really not against rune with stats on it so it would make me search for more and doing runs for them to try to maximise that particular spell with that particular color, wich would already take alot of time. If they put the color and the stats unknown until you equip it... it will be really bad... really really bad. Because the goal is to make youre character progress, this system have alot of possibility to make the character take a step backward ... for how much time? How much will it take me to find the rune that i want? It is not enjoyable by any means.
This is why auction house/trading and crafting/gamble exists in the game.
You are never gonna get all the runes you want, or all legendary. It takes a long long tim eto get it. That is the fun of the game. You have to work and earn you're good runes, so u trade or find them, or get lucky... then u can sell or trade nad get new ones.
Maybe that lvl 5 rune u find, alabaster magic missle, some other guy wants it, and he will give u magic missle shots lvl 5 for it ?
Don't be negative and whine... system is perfect.. cos it's random.. and it's hard to get items.. it's good.
I suppose that would be nice but I and perhaps many other players still have a fear. Since RMT is now a factor, it seems that greed might play a part in the community. There will be many people with the mindset "why sell this good item for gold when I can get real money for it? If the guy wants it bad enough, he will pay." With that money you earn, you will be able to buy the item you probably wanted from him, if not a better one.
If enough people act in this way with this mindset, gold and will be a useless factor when it comes to the use of AH unless your playing Hardcore (whom have their very own, gold only, AH)
As for the rune system they are talking about doing, I'm happy with it and I don't mind it too much. The Gray runes you pick up will adjust to the skill you put them in automatically. When you remove the rune, it will still be a rune designated to those effects, so you can't exactly remove and place that rune in a different skill. This will mean runes will be all the more expensive, however.
There are Five RUNESTONE TYPES AND EACH RUNETYPE GIVES A UNIQUE AND SPECIFIC EFFECT TO EACH OF THE 24 SKILLS.
In this case, RAY OF FROST:
Crimson - Beam increases in damage the longer it remains in use, to a cap.
Indigo - Wizard is surrounded by a swirling vortex of sleet, damaging any foes that come into contact.
Obsidian - Decreases beam damage, but increases reduction in target movement and attack speed.
Golden - Arcane Power cost reduced.
Alabaster - Enemies slain by Ray of Frost have a chance to leave an area of ice on the ground where they die, damaging other enemies if they move through it.
Now. If you find a lvl 1 rune, you socket it into your ray of frost skill. What happens?
The rune might become 1-5 of the runestone types, along with a RANDOM modifier to the attribute.
In this case, lvl 1 rune might be Crimson lvl 1 rune + 10 attack +5 vitality socketed in ray of frost.
Let's say you find a lvl 5 rune. You socket it into ray of frost skill.
In this case, the lvl 5 tune might become an alabaster rune, with + 5 attack + 15 vitality.
If you prefer the lvl 1 crimson rune, then stick with that, if u want the alabasdter effect along with the random attribute.. u keep that.
You auction the other lvl 1 off into other players who might want it, OR you salvage it to crafting and gamble, so u can use the materials to get the rune u want.
i wasnt that negative about it but i had some fears. Some people wrote something that i didnt catch
it will turn in a rune of the specific spell that you can swap in an out but not putting it in another spell. I feared of having a rune i liked and replace it to try to get an improvement and get it destroyed in the process, replacing it with a bad rune. If i keep the one i had in it first, im happy with the system, i dont mind.
For the RMT im all against it. People will farm and try to sell all the epic stuff for cash to make real money, thus turning D3 in a poker online for farmer . Im not a fan of auction house either but hey, thats my point of view, im perhaps sado but i was sooo proud when i farmed my full set of trang-oul for my necro. Took me a month or so. With the AH and enough cash/gold, i will have it with no effort.
but like many said , dont like it? dont use it! , but it will be hard to be impressed when someone will say "look at ma armor! im godly" and i will answer "you must a bought it noob.."
@master: i understand youre point but i still hate to trade. I hated putting stuff on AH or dealing with people, its always an hassle, often not really pleasant. Its always sad to lose an evening trying to sell an item and not play instead or worrying that it wont sell or whatever. i just hate the concept of "oh! nice! that will sell for alot!" instead of trading it to friends or whatever, we will see alot of greediness growing.
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Let's take the Wizard, for example. In the runestone video, each color rune changes the Ray of Frost skill in slightly different ways. Now, let's say that I've played the game, have experimented with all 5 runes for this skill and decide the best one for my build is the one that changes it to a swirling vortex. So, logically I will now want to find a higher rank of that specific rune so I can put it in that skill. This makes other runes less valuable for that skill, but not necessarily for other skills as I may need a different color for Arcane Missiles, etc.
Now, the proposed system as I'm understanding it (which everybody is more than welcome to correct if I'm way off base), is that runes will no longer drop as a certain color - they drop as grey or whatever. Then you place that rune into a skill and it becomes that skill's rune. Here's where my confusion about everything comes into play. Will you have any idea ahead of time what effect that rune will have on that skill - ie what color that rune will end up being? The way it was described seems like some sort of crazy lottery where you will never know what color rune it will end up as before placing it into a skill. In my above example, it no longer seems like it's possible to pursue a particular color rune for a particular effect because you won't know before you potentially waste it on a skill.
However, if runes do drop as specific colors (crimson, indigo and so on), but become locked once placed into a skill, then that seems like a viable reworking of the rune system as you could still know the effect ahead of time and go for certain rune types based on builds as well as adding weight to your choices of which skills get which runes. Personally, this is one system where knowing and planning ahead of time is worthwhile. The Diablo theory of drops still works as you could go hundreds of runs without getting the specific rune you want. But, with the AH and trading, your unwanted runes aren't ever worthless because there is no doubt someone who will need or want them.
TL;DR: Basically, will runes still drop as a certain color but grey for a skill (meaning they can be placed into ANY skill initially), or do they drop with no color and it becomes a lottery to find out what type it is by placing it into a skill?
So they said that they will be gray and when you put them in a slot they will get a color and some random stats.
Now the questions are...
-Once you know the stats , can you get it out to put in another item?
-Does is replace the rune inside? (like a gem in WOW that you socket over it?)
-So if it does, lets keep the wizard exemple. You had a crimson rune, giving you a vortex ability that you looooved and the rune was giving you +15 intelligence. Now you find a rank 2 rune and put it in. You get Lesser cost to sustain with +15 stenght.................................................. what a downgrade! Losing youre intelligence spell bonus and the swirling vortex that you loved for youre build? So now you need to farm runes until you find one that you socket and will be crimson (just saying , dont remember the vortex color) and will have the stats you want... it can take a long time and will NOT be really fun
What would be fun in my opinion
-You got a crimson rune rank1 +15 int and you find a crimson rune rank2 +3 int +3vit.... hmmmm.. do you change?
Now this is fun and actually make me wanna drop more runes to min/max.
Not knowing the color or the bonus before i socket it on another rune (if it doesnt replace/break the other one its fine though), im not sure i like that sort of gamble
I mean I totally understood Jay's points in the interview, when he says that the actual rune system creates so much confusion but I find that solution they're about to try (remember, like he said, it's pure theory they haven't even tested yet and it could totally suck) very... cryptic and too vague, just too shady.
So I dunno, I guess I kind of hope secretly that this new idea of theirs is gonna fail miserably...
The only runes that drop are "gray runes" of one of the X levels. You equip it in a skill, and it becomes one of any 5 types, and also adds a skill specific bonus (depending on the skill you set it into).
The change is permanent and the rune can only be used with the same skill now.
(but all that was just an idea, right...?)
So, wait... what's the difference compared to the actual system ? In term of being too confusing / lacks visibility as they say ?
It's even worse, if it's just "bland" or "gray" or whatever.... you just won't have any idea what it'll do on any skill. I'm so herpderpin on that system, I'm really trying tho.
*EDIT* Ok sorry, lemme try to explain myself better : no matter the rank of a gray/blank rune you drop, it'll always do the same base effect on a given skill ?
Like Magic Missile : I drop a rank 1 rune on magic missile, SCHWING (official sound effect as stated) it now adds 1 more projectile AND some random stats / affixes to it, and if I was to drop a rank 7 rune and socket it on that same skill, magic missile, then the bast effect is the same meaning it adds even more projectiles (say 8 total) AND even better random stats / affixes.
Am I correct here ?
I couldn't understand jack about the "rune system" revamp, I couldn't even figure out if the rune "types" are going to stay (Crimson, Alabaster, etc) or they're going to be changed into "Magic Missile rune", "Arcane Orb rune", and those are going to be the rune types. Jay's reasoning for the rework, and explanation into what they want to turn the system are both crappy as hell.
"It becomes too overwhelming for the player to choose because there's too many runes" - ok, by that logic let's reduce the number of possible items to 2 for each class, to make choosing easier. Dozens of items is too much, how am I supposed to know if an Axe is better than a Sword? OMG, less is more!!!
The system was perfect as it was, simple and efficient. Crimson rune, boosts dmg for skills 1 and 2, makes skill 3 deal fire dmg instead, makes skill 4 (say it's Blizzard) turn into a "constant lava rock 'blizzard' around the player for 5 seconds" and adds a 10 second cooldown. HOW in the world is that "overwhelming" information? Their testers are just bad =/
Yeah but didn't they say that once you socket it, it becomes say "Magic missile rune of blahblah" ? That would mean the whole indigo / alabastar etc names and colors things would no longer exist ? Because I loved that
I think runes will still be grouped as Crimson, Indigo, Alabaster and so on and also they will work as we have seen so far but for the random stats and the fact that once you put it into a skill it will be "locked", so once you used an indigo on magic missile you can only use it again on magic missile and is no more an Indigo rune (I guess this mean if you use a rank 5 rune you can't unsocket it and use it to obtain a rank 6, that's way Jay was talking about salvaging "locked" runes)
I definetly hope someone will tell us more about this approach even if all of this is still "theoretic" and may not make it in the final release.
lets take the magic missile spell. Ill put random effect because i dont know how the rune will change it.
Crimson : multi magic missile , one more per rank
Golden : reduce magic resistance of the enemy
Alabaster: make the magic missile pass through the enemy, giving more change to hit.
So lets say you are a fan of having more magic missiles, so you have a rank 1 crimson rune in youre missile with a +15 intelligence bonus (since they want to add stats to them). You find a rank 2 rune that is gray. You say "hmmmm might be a potential upgrade!" So you socket it in youre magic missile , thus losing youre +15 int and crimson multi missile perk. Now instead it is a gamble , you receive for exemple a rank 2 golden with +15 strenght on it. So now you lost youre ability to cast more missiles per cast for a magic resistance reduction and you lost youre +15 int for a +15 strenght that you dont need, basically downgrading you really bad.
I am really not against rune with stats on it so it would make me search for more and doing runs for them to try to maximise that particular spell with that particular color, wich would already take alot of time. If they put the color and the stats unknown until you equip it... it will be really bad... really really bad. Because the goal is to make youre character progress, this system have alot of possibility to make the character take a step backward ... for how much time? How much will it take me to find the rune that i want? It is not enjoyable by any means.
What I'd like to see is it would drop as a rune with a stat.
Then you socket it into a skill and it locks into that skill. So say you put a crimson in magic missile it a "Crimson magic missile rune" or whatever. So you can't move it around.
So if you find a Indigo rune with +20 Attack you'll know basically what it'll do and if it'll be good for what you want.
They should just have runes show a small video when moused over a skill so the people know if they make like the effect. Makes it more accessible and when people find stuff, it would be nearly as confusing as to whether it will suck.
I suppose that would be nice but I and perhaps many other players still have a fear. Since RMT is now a factor, it seems that greed might play a part in the community. There will be many people with the mindset "why sell this good item for gold when I can get real money for it? If the guy wants it bad enough, he will pay." With that money you earn, you will be able to buy the item you probably wanted from him, if not a better one.
If enough people act in this way with this mindset, gold and will be a useless factor when it comes to the use of AH unless your playing Hardcore (whom have their very own, gold only, AH)
As for the rune system they are talking about doing, I'm happy with it and I don't mind it too much. The Gray runes you pick up will adjust to the skill you put them in automatically. When you remove the rune, it will still be a rune designated to those effects, so you can't exactly remove and place that rune in a different skill. This will mean runes will be all the more expensive, however.
it will turn in a rune of the specific spell that you can swap in an out but not putting it in another spell. I feared of having a rune i liked and replace it to try to get an improvement and get it destroyed in the process, replacing it with a bad rune. If i keep the one i had in it first, im happy with the system, i dont mind.
For the RMT im all against it. People will farm and try to sell all the epic stuff for cash to make real money, thus turning D3 in a poker online for farmer . Im not a fan of auction house either but hey, thats my point of view, im perhaps sado but i was sooo proud when i farmed my full set of trang-oul for my necro. Took me a month or so. With the AH and enough cash/gold, i will have it with no effort.
but like many said , dont like it? dont use it! , but it will be hard to be impressed when someone will say "look at ma armor! im godly" and i will answer "you must a bought it noob.."
@master: i understand youre point but i still hate to trade. I hated putting stuff on AH or dealing with people, its always an hassle, often not really pleasant. Its always sad to lose an evening trying to sell an item and not play instead or worrying that it wont sell or whatever. i just hate the concept of "oh! nice! that will sell for alot!" instead of trading it to friends or whatever, we will see alot of greediness growing.