I will admit my uncontrollable urge to write a topic like this. Unfortunately, this is a rant. But I'll try my best to spare the emotional language and just make my point. I'll be making two points-
1. Stat points removed, which gives the vibe "no more 'real' control over customizing characters". If you have that vibe, thats cool. Definitely. If you take your initial reaction to that news and amplify it over the forums here then I want you to cool your jets.
- Want to make more of a tank build? What would we do in D2...pump Dex, and Vit for life and block. That's 'down to the bone' micro-fine-tuning customization. In D3, you build a tank by active/passive skills. select the active that boost health by 300% or whatever it is. Choose that passive that increase block chance or block amount. I've never seen a skill like that in gameplay videos, but if Blizzard says there's going to be crazy customization, then there will be. Gems will probably raise your favorite stats too, by the way, to even further develop your tank. Bottom Line: You haven't seen all the skills, much less all the skills combined with 1 of the SEVEN runes. No one has, yet. But YOU think you know that customization won't exist in D3. Did anyone notice on PCGamer what looked like the Zombie Wall but it was cheerleading zombies that climbed on top of each other to fall down on the enemy? Was I the only one to recognize this could mean certain runes don't just amplify damage/cost/cooldown, but can change skills from defensive to offensive ones? Tell me where you could do that in D2. And tell me that total skill-alteration is not customization for a particular build.
2.Lastly, this Bashiok guy, (new here, still unsure of who the Blue poster is :o) is doing a fine job of replying to posts and giving us information. I just read several ridiculous posts from smartasses who don't just dislike the system, its apparent they don't understand the new systems, and they're talking shit about Blizzard and Bashiok. Regardless, what is this? What is with this bashing? And rebellion against Blizzard? There's actually people here who go and bash Bashiok for merely being more or less the middleman? (what I've gathered about him so far)
I'm 'iffy' on some things. Definitely. But calm down. These developers have played D1 and D2. They played Torchlight. They played Divine Divinity. They played Planetscape Torment. They played Sacred. And Risen. They get it. They live it. They build it.
You read it. And puke all over the place.
This is not a respectable way to start out on a forum site, writing a rant I mean. From now on, I'll follow in the steps of some other members and not reply to rants directed towards Blizzard and any other employees/affiliates. But if this crap keeps up, this bashing and smartass aggression about things the public has not even seen, then I'm out man. Acquire the skill necessary to disagree with respect.
There has been given several examples on how runes can affect skills. Such as Arcane Orb, when runed, becoming an Orb that floats around the character and damages anyone getting too close.
So it is known that runes can change offensive to defensive skills and so on
I feel a little bad for Bashiok as well. He's replying to complete retards, but his job dictates he can't call them as he sees them. He has to be all polite and sh!t
I was completely ignorant of that fact. I thought I stumbled onto something! And you take my thunder away.
But there ya go. perfect example bud. Good skill for a....melee mage? Possibly!
I'm not gonna lie at first I read this as you bashing the systems and Bashiok/Blizzard and I was about to reply with a long explanation on how ignorant you were.
But now that I reread it and understand that you are tired of all the haters bashing I 100% agree with you. In Diablo 2 every character (except ES Sorcs) were "Enough STR for Gear Enough Dex for gear/max block Rest Vit" How is that a crazy amount of customization. Just 1 run in 1 skill in diablo 3 amounts to that customization if you ask me.
And you are right Blizzard knows what they are doing they have done this for many years and people just need to have a little faith before they bash, but oh well many people just aren't that bright :/
You would honestly think that people would be appreciative of the work blizzard has done with D3 thus far. But is seems, when one little thing people don't entirely agree with or are unsatisfied with they chuck a massive tantrum and start bashing blizzard on these forums and the official battle net forums. To be honest i find it extremely ridiculous because there is absolutely no need for it.
People trusted Blizzard on SC2 and they delivered a mainstream half-baked online experience. That's what everyone fear. To mention just a few problems SC2 has that weren't addressed are chat channels, massive problems with custom games (who have been "fixed" after 6-8 months, and only partially, you still can't "name" your game to describe game modes, etc.), absolutely no clan functionality, absolutely no weekly/monthly tournaments - and before you even think of saying "they don't have to deliver all those features" well, Warcraft 3 had all these, all they had to do was polish them and it would be fine, and they were all awesome features, and yet they managed to screw up.
I'm not saying SC2 isn't good (like many SC1 fanboys claim). It is in fact imho the best true real time strategy games released until today, but to think that "battle.net features" screwed an otherwise near perfect gameplay experience is saddening.
D3 is walking the same path in some aspects. Instead of going a more "we have better stuff online" approach to incentive people to play online, and still offer lan and offline functionality for those who "need" it (it's not always about wanting this), they're just going the easy way to prevent piracy, and won't even admit that's the real reason for it - they claim it's "to enhance and incentive coop play" - everyone knows that's bullsh*t.
Although I loved the no-stats solution, right now I think the "no skill points" approach is really lazy too. Instead of finding a decent balance for respecs (like 1 skill per act, and a whole respec per difficulty, or something along those lines) they just went the "you can choose whatever, any time you want, maybe even during a dungeon in-between encounters". Skill points being saved or even transfered later to different skills is something you can easily fix by limiting respec, Jay talked about it as if you could just freely respec every skill whenever you wanted, and that "saving skill points" was actually possible. If people can blast through the game without spending skill points, it's probably because something is a little bit too easy don't you think?
People bash them because they want the game to be good, because they love it. While I don't personally like that approach, sometimes mass mob rage is the only way to make the developers see that we're right (just like it worked with SC2 chat channels), while "soft talking" won't take you anywhere, except polite and premade responses, like most ones Bashiok give. And then he'll answer but hardly talk about it or respond to reasonable posts, he will usually just bash a very stupid post with bad arguments (in the post he's bashing, not his post).
Sorry for the text wall =/ I don't like when people go the "u mad bro?" way on people who express themselves, no matter how badly they sound when they do - there's usually some reasoning behind it.
I have the utmost respect for Bashiok and his patience. I work at a crappy retail job doing customer service, so I somewhat know what it's like to have to deal with some of the most moronic people on the planet. However, I absolutely love love love when you can tell that Bash is at the end of his rope and just a hint of sarcasm comes out.
Bashiok is representing Blizzard in the best light he can. He can only say so much before he starts repeating himself, and he's addressed the AH issues A LOT over the last few days.
I must admit when i started reading your post i thought it was just another rant about i hate blizzard/RMAH/Skills debate and was pleasently surprised " Good post ".
With the beta coming soon " i hope " i have been reading a lot of forums and quite frankly got very frustrated myself at the amount of complaints for a product which only a privelidged few have played.
It seem a lot of people are apparently psychic and know these changes to the game have been detrimental without playing it.
I mean why dont they just trust blizzard to give players a great game as they have done in the past.
I just hope dialbo 3 is a very fun and engrossing game like D1 & D2 " which can only be known by playing it ".
Personal Opinions Below ;-)
-----------------------------
As for the RMAH i like the idea and just dont understand the complaints about it.
Eg:Most complaints about it
A player buys all the best gear on the Ah
1/Wont affect me in pve , infact he might be buying gear i put up there " woohoo "
2/Will only affect me if i am miraculously matched against him in pvp and then if he beats me the matchmaking system will adjust it .
3/It has already been stated that blizz havent balanced the characters for pvp
4/He wont be able to wear it till the approprite lvl " no point buying lvl 60 gear at lvl 1 "
And for those that say what if he buys a fully geared character " if they allow character sales " well for one i doubt he will have the skill to play it properly " ala wow "
And finally as been stated by Blizzard its a pve cooperative game with a small element of pvp .
People are just tired of waiting and these changes doesn't help ignorant fans. Give them beta right this moment and they will shut up like giving candy to a baby, lol.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love all loot fest kind of game! I will be playing all of them for the next few years. Loot fest games I'm looking forward to: LotR: War in the North,Torchlight 2,Borderlands 2 and of course Diablo 3.
People are just tired of waiting and these changes doesn't help ignorant fans. Give them beta right this moment and they will shut up like giving candy to a baby, lol.
I think you seriously under-estimate the power of unruly children to whine about literally everything.
These teenagers who played D2 when they were infants pretending to know something about how Diablo should play amuse the hell out of me though. Hope some of them grow into embarassed adult programmers.
Really I agree with you 100% but I want to talk in general.
I just don't get it why nowadays the gaming community is in general so awful. Really...I remember back in the days when there was umm...respect? People respected between themselves and the developers, even if they did something wrong they respectfully complained or actually didn't complained at all.
We all know the internet is such a bad place, etc etc. But the gaming community, really, I played such games like Diablo, Diablo 2, Starcraft, Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3...I left after some time and some years ago when I returned it was left such a mess. Little kids everywhere and flaming and trolling rampant.
Could the community get back to the golden days or enter a new era or tranquility? Or we are just doomed to this ... ignorance?
Really I agree with you 100% but I want to talk in general.
I just don't get it why nowadays the gaming community is in general so awful. Really...I remember back in the days when there was umm...respect? People respected between themselves and the developers, even if they did something wrong they respectfully complained or actually didn't complained at all.
We all know the internet is such a bad place, etc etc. But the gaming community, really, I played such games like Diablo, Diablo 2, Starcraft, Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3...I left after some time and some years ago when I returned it was left such a mess. Little kids everywhere and flaming and trolling rampant.
Could the community get back to the golden days or enter a new era or tranquility? Or we are just doomed to this ... ignorance?
It's a matter of size. When you get a small group of people with a similar interest together, they'll tend to be respectful. Multiply the number by 1000 and all of a sudden your chances of having jerks and such grows to such a level that it's impossible to contain. Multiple it by another thousand and it basically becomes monkeys flinging poo at each other.
That's where the gaming community is right now. We've left the 'small but polite' stage and have recently passed the 'jerks popping up in numbers' stage and entered the 'monkeys flinging poo' stage.
The most annoying thing is that they will flame and bash all this time but when it comes to crunch they will be standing in the lines at 12 midnight buying the game and using the features. If people have that much objection to the features dont buy the game because thats where it will hurt them most. I know everyone has the right to moan but people arent expressing their right in a constructive way mostly crying and spitting their dummys out.
All credit for Bashiok (and the other forum mods) for dealing with the constant stream of idiocy they get. Not just recently with the RMAH and skill debates, but all the time! It gets to the point where you can see a thread title on the blue tracker and know it's going to say "Please read the forum guidelines <link here>. Locked" or "Please don't create more than one thread on the subject" etc. I have complete respect for anyone that deals with moderating the forums on a regular basis, as I know if I tried it, I'd be fired in a week (maximum).
In terms of community, I agree that it's all gone to crap lately. I used to post on the official D2 forums in the first few years of it being out, and it was quite nice. The odd flame post or troll, but they weren't as often or as bad. I've spent a lot of time on MMO Champion and playing WoW the last few years, and frankly, I'm sick to death of the community that goes with both now.
I agree that it is part down to numbers, but I also think 'leet' speak and memes are also to blame. People latch on to memes and phrases and throw them around as insults with no manners or constructive criticism. I cringe every time I see someone say "bro", "u mad", "l2p" and especially "noob". It seems that trolling, using memes and throwing out insults appears 'cool' to some people now.
So far I'm glad that this small community has few antagonists and seem to on the whole respect each other and their opinions, with more debating than raging and arguing. I've noticed a few (newer) posters that have picked on people and been a little abusive, but they are certainly in the minority, and I hope the mods keep up the good job!
That type of speech pattern spawns out of the same thing though - the size of the internet community spawns idiotic things because we have 'monkey-poo syndrome'.
I agree man, 110%. It's nice to see some threads bashing the bashers for how much flames being given to Blizz. They busted their asses for 5 years and are receiving hate for giving everyone a Diablo 3 that has been revolutionary so far. I'm only Sixteen but I agree with the generalization that most Kids/Teens these days don't really know much about games, nor do they have respect. You can just go on any CoD or Halo game and find Fifty million ten year olds playing and calling you "gay", "loser", "fag" , "bitch" and any other type of pathetic insult just for kicking their ass. It amazes me at how bad it is, when i was that young I just shut up and played with friends and din't engage, but now its like a whole other story. Everything has to be Tolled and Flamed because its something "cool" these days. I've followed this game since 06 when I had my original account on this site, and I remember all the hype back then, and finally when it was revealed the Flames started burning about how it looked fruity,bulky and WoWish. That all subsided once the game got further into production, got more polishing to it, and was seen deeper into the game. I have no doubt in my mind once these flamers either play, watch someone play, or buy the game they will forget their shitfits, and love the game just as much as I will.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
I agree man, 110%. It's nice to see some threads bashing the bashers for how much flames being given to Blizz. They busted their asses for 5 years and are receiving hate for giving everyone a Diablo 3 that has been revolutionary so far. I'm only Sixteen but I agree with the generalization that most Kids/Teens these days don't really know much about games, nor do they have respect. You can just go on any CoD or Halo game and find Fifty million ten year olds playing and calling you "gay", "loser", "fag" , "bitch" and any other type of pathetic insult just for kicking their ass. It amazes me at how bad it is, when i was that young I just shut up and played with friends and din't engage, but now its like a whole other story. Everything has to be Tolled and Flamed because its something "cool" these days. I've followed this game since 06 when I had my original account on this site, and I remember all the hype back then, and finally when it was revealed the Flames started burning about how it looked fruity,bulky and WoWish. That all subsided once the game got further into production, got more polishing to it, and was seen deeper into the game. I have no doubt in my mind once these flamers either play, watch someone play, or buy the game they will forget their shitfits, and love the game just as much as I will.
Hmm....a thoughtful teen? You are an endangered species. Nice post.
People are just tired of waiting and these changes doesn't help ignorant fans. Give them beta right this moment and they will shut up like giving candy to a baby, lol.
I think you seriously under-estimate the power of unruly children to whine about literally everything.
These teenagers who played D2 when they were infants pretending to know something about how Diablo should play amuse the hell out of me though. Hope some of them grow into embarassed adult programmers.
That's is true, giving them candy means more sugar and will make them more hyper, lol. Anyway for those of us that's reasonable for these recent changes, let's help them understand. For some reason I can't log in to the D3 official forum so it's gonna have to be up to you guys.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love all loot fest kind of game! I will be playing all of them for the next few years. Loot fest games I'm looking forward to: LotR: War in the North,Torchlight 2,Borderlands 2 and of course Diablo 3.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1. Stat points removed, which gives the vibe "no more 'real' control over customizing characters". If you have that vibe, thats cool. Definitely. If you take your initial reaction to that news and amplify it over the forums here then I want you to cool your jets.
- Want to make more of a tank build? What would we do in D2...pump Dex, and Vit for life and block. That's 'down to the bone' micro-fine-tuning customization. In D3, you build a tank by active/passive skills. select the active that boost health by 300% or whatever it is. Choose that passive that increase block chance or block amount. I've never seen a skill like that in gameplay videos, but if Blizzard says there's going to be crazy customization, then there will be. Gems will probably raise your favorite stats too, by the way, to even further develop your tank. Bottom Line: You haven't seen all the skills, much less all the skills combined with 1 of the SEVEN runes. No one has, yet. But YOU think you know that customization won't exist in D3. Did anyone notice on PCGamer what looked like the Zombie Wall but it was cheerleading zombies that climbed on top of each other to fall down on the enemy? Was I the only one to recognize this could mean certain runes don't just amplify damage/cost/cooldown, but can change skills from defensive to offensive ones? Tell me where you could do that in D2. And tell me that total skill-alteration is not customization for a particular build.
2.Lastly, this Bashiok guy, (new here, still unsure of who the Blue poster is :o) is doing a fine job of replying to posts and giving us information. I just read several ridiculous posts from smartasses who don't just dislike the system, its apparent they don't understand the new systems, and they're talking shit about Blizzard and Bashiok. Regardless, what is this? What is with this bashing? And rebellion against Blizzard? There's actually people here who go and bash Bashiok for merely being more or less the middleman? (what I've gathered about him so far)
I'm 'iffy' on some things. Definitely. But calm down. These developers have played D1 and D2. They played Torchlight. They played Divine Divinity. They played Planetscape Torment. They played Sacred. And Risen. They get it. They live it. They build it.
You read it. And puke all over the place.
This is not a respectable way to start out on a forum site, writing a rant I mean. From now on, I'll follow in the steps of some other members and not reply to rants directed towards Blizzard and any other employees/affiliates. But if this crap keeps up, this bashing and smartass aggression about things the public has not even seen, then I'm out man. Acquire the skill necessary to disagree with respect.
DKR
I was completely ignorant of that fact. I thought I stumbled onto something! And you take my thunder away.
But there ya go. perfect example bud. Good skill for a....melee mage? Possibly!
But now that I reread it and understand that you are tired of all the haters bashing I 100% agree with you. In Diablo 2 every character (except ES Sorcs) were "Enough STR for Gear Enough Dex for gear/max block Rest Vit" How is that a crazy amount of customization. Just 1 run in 1 skill in diablo 3 amounts to that customization if you ask me.
And you are right Blizzard knows what they are doing they have done this for many years and people just need to have a little faith before they bash, but oh well many people just aren't that bright :/
Best blue poster they've had.
Lines like "Absolutely not. I can barely count to 12" just crack me up.
I'm not saying SC2 isn't good (like many SC1 fanboys claim). It is in fact imho the best true real time strategy games released until today, but to think that "battle.net features" screwed an otherwise near perfect gameplay experience is saddening.
D3 is walking the same path in some aspects. Instead of going a more "we have better stuff online" approach to incentive people to play online, and still offer lan and offline functionality for those who "need" it (it's not always about wanting this), they're just going the easy way to prevent piracy, and won't even admit that's the real reason for it - they claim it's "to enhance and incentive coop play" - everyone knows that's bullsh*t.
Although I loved the no-stats solution, right now I think the "no skill points" approach is really lazy too. Instead of finding a decent balance for respecs (like 1 skill per act, and a whole respec per difficulty, or something along those lines) they just went the "you can choose whatever, any time you want, maybe even during a dungeon in-between encounters". Skill points being saved or even transfered later to different skills is something you can easily fix by limiting respec, Jay talked about it as if you could just freely respec every skill whenever you wanted, and that "saving skill points" was actually possible. If people can blast through the game without spending skill points, it's probably because something is a little bit too easy don't you think?
People bash them because they want the game to be good, because they love it. While I don't personally like that approach, sometimes mass mob rage is the only way to make the developers see that we're right (just like it worked with SC2 chat channels), while "soft talking" won't take you anywhere, except polite and premade responses, like most ones Bashiok give. And then he'll answer but hardly talk about it or respond to reasonable posts, he will usually just bash a very stupid post with bad arguments (in the post he's bashing, not his post).
Sorry for the text wall =/ I don't like when people go the "u mad bro?" way on people who express themselves, no matter how badly they sound when they do - there's usually some reasoning behind it.
With the beta coming soon " i hope " i have been reading a lot of forums and quite frankly got very frustrated myself at the amount of complaints for a product which only a privelidged few have played.
It seem a lot of people are apparently psychic and know these changes to the game have been detrimental without playing it.
I mean why dont they just trust blizzard to give players a great game as they have done in the past.
I just hope dialbo 3 is a very fun and engrossing game like D1 & D2 " which can only be known by playing it ".
Personal Opinions Below ;-)
-----------------------------
As for the RMAH i like the idea and just dont understand the complaints about it.
Eg:Most complaints about it
A player buys all the best gear on the Ah
1/Wont affect me in pve , infact he might be buying gear i put up there " woohoo "
2/Will only affect me if i am miraculously matched against him in pvp and then if he beats me the matchmaking system will adjust it .
3/It has already been stated that blizz havent balanced the characters for pvp
4/He wont be able to wear it till the approprite lvl " no point buying lvl 60 gear at lvl 1 "
And for those that say what if he buys a fully geared character " if they allow character sales " well for one i doubt he will have the skill to play it properly " ala wow "
And finally as been stated by Blizzard its a pve cooperative game with a small element of pvp .
I think you seriously under-estimate the power of unruly children to whine about literally everything.
These teenagers who played D2 when they were infants pretending to know something about how Diablo should play amuse the hell out of me though. Hope some of them grow into embarassed adult programmers.
I mean dang. This is a hobby. If hobbies cause such negative vibes in a person maybe they are in the wrong line of interests.
I just don't get it why nowadays the gaming community is in general so awful. Really...I remember back in the days when there was umm...respect? People respected between themselves and the developers, even if they did something wrong they respectfully complained or actually didn't complained at all.
We all know the internet is such a bad place, etc etc. But the gaming community, really, I played such games like Diablo, Diablo 2, Starcraft, Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3...I left after some time and some years ago when I returned it was left such a mess. Little kids everywhere and flaming and trolling rampant.
Could the community get back to the golden days or enter a new era or tranquility? Or we are just doomed to this ... ignorance?
It's a matter of size. When you get a small group of people with a similar interest together, they'll tend to be respectful. Multiply the number by 1000 and all of a sudden your chances of having jerks and such grows to such a level that it's impossible to contain. Multiple it by another thousand and it basically becomes monkeys flinging poo at each other.
That's where the gaming community is right now. We've left the 'small but polite' stage and have recently passed the 'jerks popping up in numbers' stage and entered the 'monkeys flinging poo' stage.
That type of speech pattern spawns out of the same thing though - the size of the internet community spawns idiotic things because we have 'monkey-poo syndrome'.
That's is true, giving them candy means more sugar and will make them more hyper, lol. Anyway for those of us that's reasonable for these recent changes, let's help them understand. For some reason I can't log in to the D3 official forum so it's gonna have to be up to you guys.