I hadn't known Bashiok's statement was misleading, my mistake.
Haste bonuses are not multiplicative. Don't believe me? Find a Frenzy shrine and try it out.
Misread; thought the 5%'s were on the weapons for some reason.
It's still not 15% increased damage either. It's the benefit of 15% IAS, which will vary by build and execution. I should have explained myself better in that this comparison is meaningless until the actual value of the shield is quantified. We've known the benefit of DW for some time, it's nothing new. While it's not possible to quantify what it *is*, we can approximate what it needs to be in order to be comparable to the current DW benefit.
Whatever the benefit, the shield should be able to provide (1 - (1 / (1 + DPS Benefit))) benefit in survivability. Level 60 shields provide a base of 391 top armor, which is 11.5% against level 60 (10.7% against 65), in addition to the undefinable benefit of blocking. Without knowing the mods, the benefit appears to be merely comparable, not insurmountable.
It's still not 15% increased damage either. It's the benefit of 15% IAS, which will vary by build and execution. I should have explained myself better in that this comparison is meaningless until the actual value of the shield is quantified. We've known the benefit of DW for some time, it's nothing new. While it's not possible to quantify what it *is*, we can approximate what it needs to be in order to be comparable to the current DW benefit.
You're right, my point is just that the DW benefit seems very low. The 15% over S/S are a theoretical maximum, requiring multiple conditions(offhand = mainhand, no other haste bonuses and using no situational/cooldown abilities).
Sure, we have to compare this small gain to the gain from a shield to see if it's as small, but I can't imagine this based on beta play. Didn't do any math on this, though.
edit for clarification:
I think, we all agree that the bonus for wielding an additional weapon is pretty small. We don't know yet if the bonus for using a shield will be as small, but even if that was the case, I'd consider that bad design, because it would make the decision between s/s and dw rather unimportant. In D2 for example it was a major decision. Currently it seems more like switching a small charm between +resist and +max dam
[off topic]
This reminds me of the situation in Baldur's Gate II, where you -in a min/max scenario- could equip an offhand weapon that would swing once per round, while your mainhand would swing 4 times per round, so approximately a 25% dps gain(discussing Belm, Crom Faeyr etc would take this too far ). A shield on the other hand could get you an armor rating of -8 or so, which meant, that enemies who would previously need to roll x on a 20-sided dice would have to roll x+8 to hit you. So unless they were much higher or lower in lvl, this was a tremendous difference, well worth the sacrifice.
[/off topic]
You will deal more damage with 2 weapons, or a 2h, in comparison to 1h+shield. The shield is for defensive purposes.
Yeah, we won't really know till later difficulties how much the shields are needed. Probably won't need them in normal, but, it looks like it works fine if you want to play that way there, too.
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Misread; thought the 5%'s were on the weapons for some reason.
It's still not 15% increased damage either. It's the benefit of 15% IAS, which will vary by build and execution. I should have explained myself better in that this comparison is meaningless until the actual value of the shield is quantified. We've known the benefit of DW for some time, it's nothing new. While it's not possible to quantify what it *is*, we can approximate what it needs to be in order to be comparable to the current DW benefit.
Whatever the benefit, the shield should be able to provide (1 - (1 / (1 + DPS Benefit))) benefit in survivability. Level 60 shields provide a base of 391 top armor, which is 11.5% against level 60 (10.7% against 65), in addition to the undefinable benefit of blocking. Without knowing the mods, the benefit appears to be merely comparable, not insurmountable.
You're right, my point is just that the DW benefit seems very low. The 15% over S/S are a theoretical maximum, requiring multiple conditions(offhand = mainhand, no other haste bonuses and using no situational/cooldown abilities).
Sure, we have to compare this small gain to the gain from a shield to see if it's as small, but I can't imagine this based on beta play. Didn't do any math on this, though.
edit for clarification:
I think, we all agree that the bonus for wielding an additional weapon is pretty small. We don't know yet if the bonus for using a shield will be as small, but even if that was the case, I'd consider that bad design, because it would make the decision between s/s and dw rather unimportant. In D2 for example it was a major decision. Currently it seems more like switching a small charm between +resist and +max dam
[off topic]
This reminds me of the situation in Baldur's Gate II, where you -in a min/max scenario- could equip an offhand weapon that would swing once per round, while your mainhand would swing 4 times per round, so approximately a 25% dps gain(discussing Belm, Crom Faeyr etc would take this too far ). A shield on the other hand could get you an armor rating of -8 or so, which meant, that enemies who would previously need to roll x on a 20-sided dice would have to roll x+8 to hit you. So unless they were much higher or lower in lvl, this was a tremendous difference, well worth the sacrifice.
[/off topic]
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Yeah, we won't really know till later difficulties how much the shields are needed. Probably won't need them in normal, but, it looks like it works fine if you want to play that way there, too.