Can't we just say she shoots Shadow Bolts and then we can all live in peaz n' quiat.
I seriously believe she shoots Shadow Bolts because in the inventory there is no where to put "Bolts" if you're dual-wielding xbows... therefore she is using her demonic magic to create ammo in any form that she requires?
And why are we complaining about dual-wielding xbow reloading and not D2 xbow reloading? No one ever worried about how they reloaded xbows in d2 at all. So why d3? Is it because it's a newer game and therefore should be perfect? Because it's 3D/D3? I mean, no one ever complained about how there was no ammo system in D1. So why D3?
Don't expect more realism just because it's a newer game. I like unrealistic things in my game because is that not the reason we play games? To have fun and escape reality? So what's the use of making a realistic game for people who want to escape that realism? THAT is fail logic right there.
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It's all been said. The pun, the not so funny joke, the phrase, something about oneself, the not so random picture.
@maka
Yeah but if they're dual wield cross bows they wont really need the reload animation because mauling down walls of demons running at you with em is cool enough. For those who dont like the idea of dualing xbows use a regular bow and 2h xbow, then youll get your reload animation (im assuming).
Idk, for me I just assume she has the ability to reload insanely fast, I don't really need the lore to tell me that. I do think that they should mention her ability to reload or whatever, but I will play the DH either way and I will like it just as much with or without an explanation.
I mean if you don't like this, the whole idea of being able to gain a non-class skill in D2 from an item is far worse.
I dont know I cant justify what Blizzard does in their games besides say that ..it doesent matter cause dual crossbows are gonna be the shit, so it doesent matter. Or..it's a game and for Blizzard had to sacrifice reload animation for dw crossbows...cause its kind of impossible to do. IMO idc that there isn't reload animation because the idea of firing two 1h crossbows is worth it.
Edit: And like I said if you care that much about reload animation just dont play the class or stick to 2h bows
Repeating crossbows still needs to reload once in a while. With that said; something like the reloading animation is something that's been taking for granted. For example; the inventory system shows an unrealistic display for the sake of gameplay. We have to suspend the belief that we can hold 3 full plate 3 great axe in our backpack. Amazon bows/crossbows implied that she reload when used. Quivers and bolts containers are there to implied that.
Also have you look at the demon hunter opening video? You will notice that she took the teeth from a slain demon and physical put in the crossbows. OK!!!
I think it makes a hell lot more sense if shes shooting shadow bolts or something that can be easily created using mana/energy/"magic".
This is why we are upset. They gone too far with nothing to back them up. Please don't try and blame "its a fairytale game" arguemnt; it makes your comment so baseless and ignorant.
Also have you look at the demon hunter opening video? You will notice that she took the teeth from a slain demon and physical put in the crossbows. OK!!!
She stuck the tooth on the tip of a bolt...
Believe me, I want the best quality Diablo game that Blizzard can come up with. But the beta hasn't even been announced so there is still so much we dont know. As for shadow bolts and using magic, you most likely just guessed a skill that hasnt been announced. So Ryu quit freaking out until at least the Beta Skill Trees have come out for the class. Im sure Blizzard has noticed the complaints about DW crossbows on all the forums and will come up with something
Finally, the "it's a game" argument is not ignorant at all..dude it's a game which means the creators can follow their own rules and decide what they want implemented. You are complaining about the lack of realism in a fantasy game. Come on man, really?
The "shadow bolt" was a reference to the post before mines. It was to point out for the sake of argument that something like a magic spells are better explained then the current mechanics crossbows.
come on maka we all know invisible weapons wouldnt make for a good game, lol. Thats just silly..and i dont think we would be playing d3 if that were the case.
You guys missed my point. What I'm saying here is that I'm sure they'll fix the crossbow mechanics because of the large number of complaints, who know maybe not it is Blizzard. Idk maybe they will use "magic bolts" as a mechanic instead of physical ones...guess we'll wait and see.
Repeating crossbows still needs to reload once in a while. With that said; something like the reloading animation is something that's been taking for granted. For example; the inventory system shows an unrealistic display for the sake of gameplay. We have to suspend the belief that we can hold 3 full plate 3 great axe in our backpack. Amazon bows/crossbows implied that she reload when used. Quivers and bolts containers are there to implied that.
Also have you look at the demon hunter opening video? You will notice that she took the teeth from a slain demon and physical put in the crossbows. OK!!!
I think it makes a hell lot more sense if shes shooting shadow bolts or something that can be easily created using mana/energy/"magic".
This is why we are upset. They gone too far with nothing to back them up. Please don't try and blame "its a fairytale game" arguemnt; it makes your comment so baseless and ignorant.
On the contrary, arguing over magic/realism in a game is baseless.. Neither ignorant though.
Either way, in this post you point out something decent, they can't just change the mechanic to shadow bolts or anything of the sort because they already aired her trailer. They could.. It just would be very judged very hard by a lot of people, all over thinking this whole deal because we have no other news to debate about..
So lets look at it as the D3 team would, with problems and solutions.
-So, we know she uses "real" bolts from her trailer.
-A reloading animation holding two crossbows is 100% impossible to fit into the pace of battle. Unlike the bow zon who only had to reach to her back.
-She has magic abilities.
These are the problems.. The only solution I see is to make an excuse of why she doesn't need to reload.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
-So, we know she uses "real" bolts from her trailer.
Well not necessarily. Not only does she seem to use a demon tooth as an arrowhead (pointing to shadow magic), but theres also a flash when she fires, which could further hint at some sort of magic. I for one have no problem with the DH having more options for her weapons, even if there are some gaps in the logic behind it, and especially considering these gaps can pretty easily be explained by the same forces that allow her to get a bola to attach to a creature even when one of the heavy ends hits it first, when in reality you would have to hit the creature with the middle of the rope first.
And the way I see it, there will be plenty of bows and crossbows that are just as viable, if not more viable for certain builds. If you need a slower firing, harder hitting weapon for your build, get an xbow, if you need a balance of power and firing speed, get a bow, and if you need a fast firing, low damage weapon, get dual xbows. Again, the gaps in logic behind dual xbows are compensated for (in my opinion) by the fact that it adds that extra option for the DH.
She doesn't need to reload, she only needs a free hand to do so. Throw repeating crossbows instead of those pistol ones all the bad visual impact of pistol crossbows is gone.
I think some people didn't like pistol crossbows because it doesn't look alot medieval. I've drop it though. Diablo doen't look madieval since D2 so w/e.
Again, the gaps in logic behind dual xbows are compensated for (in my opinion) by the fact that it adds that extra option for the DH.
That can be used to justify anything. Why not double javelins, then? double spears? double staves? double wands? double throwing knives/axes/etc? Heck, why not just bend over and fire volleys of arrows from a backpack? The point is, the usage and the behaviour of dual crossbows looks bad and very unrealistic, and, as far as I can remember, no other weapon looks unrealistic. So it's not a matter of saying "shut up, it's a game, deal with it", no. If all the other weapons look and work realistically, why should the dual crossbows and the idiotic DH be any different? she's a crap class, anyway.
Why not fire magical claymores out my ass in a jet of assfire!!!
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Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
That can be used to justify anything. Why not double javelins, then? double spears? double staves? double wands? double throwing knives/axes/etc? Heck, why not just bend over and fire volleys of arrows from a backpack? The point is, the usage and the behaviour of dual crossbows looks bad and very unrealistic, and, as far as I can remember, no other weapon looks unrealistic. So it's not a matter of saying "shut up, it's a game, deal with it", no. If all the other weapons look and work realistically, why should the dual crossbows and the idiotic DH be any different? she's a crap class, anyway.
Well if you just have a problem with the DH then I guess theres no convincing you, but you're completely disregarding the fact that its not at all like double javs/etc like you listed. Its not like they're just throwing in an option when the DH has plenty of options. They're increasing the weapon options for the DH from 2 to 3. The Barbarian and Monk have a huge amount of options (axes, swords, fist weapons, shields, mauls, maces, flails, most of them with two handed variants as well), the Wizard and WD have a slightly smaller amount, but can still use daggers, swords and shields along with standard magic weapons. The DH, on the other hand, only has the bow and crossbow. She's not like the Amazon where you also had access to a wide range of throwing weapons. Clearly having two options for weapons compared to all the weapons other classes have access to is something of a slap in the face, and even with three its pretty much the same, but better by a bit.
The DH is a master of new technologies and innovation. She was described as dreaming of new ways to kill demons. If there was some combination of mechanics and magic that allows her to dual wield pistol crossbows, which really isn't nearly as hard to believe as you're making it seem, she would pounce on the opportunity. She's shown to use that combination in other skills (namely Spike Trap), so I don't see why she wouldn't use magic to generate small bolts, with some kind of mechanical innovation that re-cocks the crossbow after it fires. Thats really not terribly far fetched compared to other stuff that exists in Sanctuary.
Again, the gaps in logic behind dual xbows are compensated for (in my opinion) by the fact that it adds that extra option for the DH.
That can be used to justify anything. Why not double javelins, then? double spears? double staves? double wands? double throwing knives/axes/etc? Heck, why not just bend over and fire volleys of arrows from a backpack? The point is, the usage and the behaviour of dual crossbows looks bad and very unrealistic, and, as far as I can remember, no other weapon looks unrealistic. So it's not a matter of saying "shut up, it's a game, deal with it", no. If all the other weapons look and work realistically, why should the dual crossbows and the idiotic DH be any different? she's a crap class, anyway.
Maka that is what makes classes in Diablo unique from each other. Barbs have dual wield 2h weapons because they are powerful(and im pretty sure they would have no problems DWing spears). Dual javelins would work pretty realistically...as they are thrown alone with the rest of the throwing weapons. Monks would have no problem dual-wielding staves...I mean they are a martial arts based class. So every example you stated to be so unrealistic there was just proved logically by the diversity of talents that come along with different classes.
Demon Hunters can DW small crossbows, only problem is an explanation from Blizzard as to why its possible as Bash said. Really if you think its a crap class..don't play it, if you have such a huge problem with a small question of weapon logistics then dont play D3. Really you're just whining now as before where you were making decent arguments. And..really I didnt know that elemental enchanted axes were realistic, must be out of the loop.
We're arguing opinions, and negatives. The two debates that have no right or wrong answer. Also the two things that thrive on the internet.. -sigh- ..
As far as game play goes it's undeniable that the capability to use two crossbows adds an extra option for the DH, as stated about. This is fact. Blizzard isn't going to remove is, not only did they say they love it, blizzcon roared in agreement that it was awesome after a guy from the Q/A accused the idea of being "uncreative". It's staying, sorry.
I don't like that she's in stilettos, it's unrealistic, how can she possible fight in high heals, all the other classes where normal shoes, I'm going to go make a thread about it.. -sarcasm- <_<
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
The problem with these fast paced discussions is that everyone on each side of the argument gets lumped into one. It's nobody's fault, it just happens.
So, i'll say it again: my problem with it is not that the reloading is unrealistic or anything like that. But seriously, can you point out any other weapon system that looks and behaves as ludicrously as these dual crossbows? all the other weapons look smooth, with decent animations, fairly realistic (some realism in weapons is important), while firing the dual xbows just looks like you're playing metal slug. they just feel too arcade!!
I just don't agree. Sorry. I think the animation and look of it is fine. Especially considering how much of the time she's just casting spells like Bola Shot or that fire arrow, which looks the same regardless of the weapon.
And it's blizz's fault that they came up with a class that's (partly) weapon-based, but then made it ranged only! The wiz is ranged only, but he doesn't rely on weapons; the 'zon relied on weapons, but she was ranged AND melee; then they came up with a class with lots of skills that rely on weapons, and they make it ranged only!! of course you're gonna be limited in weapon choices!! Using that as a justification to have dual xbows, just to increase the choice from 2 to 3...I don't buy it.
Its an archetype that is used a lot, and it was missing from D3 before the DH, and imo the DH fills it very well. If you don't like her, don't use her, and if you just don't like dual xbows, then make a DH with a bow or xbow.
But now that I think about it, they keep hammering the idea of "we want to you be killing monsters ALL THE TIME!", so I guess an arcade feel is not entirely unexpected.
I think arcade is the wrong word. Action packed sounds more like it. I really don't see any legitimate complaint against killing more monsters.
An archetype? what archetype is that? i'm sorry, i really don't see it. It would've been SOOOO much cooler if she had one xbow in one hand and one dagger in the other. you could keep the fast pace, but it would be much more varied. the vids just seem like too much of "entangling shot, bola bola bola, trap, multiple shot, rinse, repeat".
As in the physical ranged archetype. The bow class. And that repetitiveness is because in the demo you only had three skills, and got a 4th when you got a level.
I like to tinker with gear and equipment and gems and jewels and stuff, talk to the NPCs in town, see what they have for sale, reflect on whether I should go with more enhanced damage or more attack speed on my weapon, etc. I think they're trying too hard to push us into the action all the time.
That will still take place, but its more that once you're out of town, you're out in the wilderness and its hard to get back.
The problem with these fast paced discussions is that everyone on each side of the argument gets lumped into one. It's nobody's fault, it just happens.
So, i'll say it again: my problem with it is not that the reloading is unrealistic or anything like that. But seriously, can you point out any other weapon system that looks and behaves as ludicrously as these dual crossbows? all the other weapons look smooth, with decent animations, fairly realistic (some realism in weapons is important), while firing the dual xbows just looks like you're playing metal slug. they just feel too arcade!!
I also have to disagree, with all the skills youll be using playing DH, Vault to get at range, laying traps, and all the tools to snare and slow enemies, you're going to be doing so much that I seriously doubt youll notice the DW xbow animation (if of course you choose to use dual xbows). The Demon Hunter's skills complement the class being a range only class perfectly, even with the small number of skills we know about. Youre going to be constantly Vaulting away from groups and snaring/slowing them, I really dont think it will be as big of a deal that people are making that.
I seriously believe she shoots Shadow Bolts because in the inventory there is no where to put "Bolts" if you're dual-wielding xbows... therefore she is using her demonic magic to create ammo in any form that she requires?
And why are we complaining about dual-wielding xbow reloading and not D2 xbow reloading? No one ever worried about how they reloaded xbows in d2 at all. So why d3? Is it because it's a newer game and therefore should be perfect? Because it's 3D/D3? I mean, no one ever complained about how there was no ammo system in D1. So why D3?
Don't expect more realism just because it's a newer game. I like unrealistic things in my game because is that not the reason we play games? To have fun and escape reality? So what's the use of making a realistic game for people who want to escape that realism? THAT is fail logic right there.
Yeah but if they're dual wield cross bows they wont really need the reload animation because mauling down walls of demons running at you with em is cool enough. For those who dont like the idea of dualing xbows use a regular bow and 2h xbow, then youll get your reload animation (im assuming).
I mean if you don't like this, the whole idea of being able to gain a non-class skill in D2 from an item is far worse.
Edit: And like I said if you care that much about reload animation just dont play the class or stick to 2h bows
Also have you look at the demon hunter opening video? You will notice that she took the teeth from a slain demon and physical put in the crossbows. OK!!!
I think it makes a hell lot more sense if shes shooting shadow bolts or something that can be easily created using mana/energy/"magic".
This is why we are upset. They gone too far with nothing to back them up. Please don't try and blame "its a fairytale game" arguemnt; it makes your comment so baseless and ignorant.
It has already been confirmed that Diablo 3 will not have ammo.
She stuck the tooth on the tip of a bolt...
Believe me, I want the best quality Diablo game that Blizzard can come up with. But the beta hasn't even been announced so there is still so much we dont know. As for shadow bolts and using magic, you most likely just guessed a skill that hasnt been announced. So Ryu quit freaking out until at least the Beta Skill Trees have come out for the class. Im sure Blizzard has noticed the complaints about DW crossbows on all the forums and will come up with something
Finally, the "it's a game" argument is not ignorant at all..dude it's a game which means the creators can follow their own rules and decide what they want implemented. You are complaining about the lack of realism in a fantasy game. Come on man, really?
@maka
You guys missed my point. What I'm saying here is that I'm sure they'll fix the crossbow mechanics because of the large number of complaints, who know maybe not it is Blizzard. Idk maybe they will use "magic bolts" as a mechanic instead of physical ones...guess we'll wait and see.
On the contrary, arguing over magic/realism in a game is baseless.. Neither ignorant though.
Either way, in this post you point out something decent, they can't just change the mechanic to shadow bolts or anything of the sort because they already aired her trailer. They could.. It just would be very judged very hard by a lot of people, all over thinking this whole deal because we have no other news to debate about..
So lets look at it as the D3 team would, with problems and solutions.
-So, we know she uses "real" bolts from her trailer.
-A reloading animation holding two crossbows is 100% impossible to fit into the pace of battle. Unlike the bow zon who only had to reach to her back.
-She has magic abilities.
These are the problems.. The only solution I see is to make an excuse of why she doesn't need to reload.
Well not necessarily. Not only does she seem to use a demon tooth as an arrowhead (pointing to shadow magic), but theres also a flash when she fires, which could further hint at some sort of magic. I for one have no problem with the DH having more options for her weapons, even if there are some gaps in the logic behind it, and especially considering these gaps can pretty easily be explained by the same forces that allow her to get a bola to attach to a creature even when one of the heavy ends hits it first, when in reality you would have to hit the creature with the middle of the rope first.
And the way I see it, there will be plenty of bows and crossbows that are just as viable, if not more viable for certain builds. If you need a slower firing, harder hitting weapon for your build, get an xbow, if you need a balance of power and firing speed, get a bow, and if you need a fast firing, low damage weapon, get dual xbows. Again, the gaps in logic behind dual xbows are compensated for (in my opinion) by the fact that it adds that extra option for the DH.
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I think some people didn't like pistol crossbows because it doesn't look alot medieval. I've drop it though. Diablo doen't look madieval since D2 so w/e.
Why not fire magical claymores out my ass in a jet of assfire!!!
Well if you just have a problem with the DH then I guess theres no convincing you, but you're completely disregarding the fact that its not at all like double javs/etc like you listed. Its not like they're just throwing in an option when the DH has plenty of options. They're increasing the weapon options for the DH from 2 to 3. The Barbarian and Monk have a huge amount of options (axes, swords, fist weapons, shields, mauls, maces, flails, most of them with two handed variants as well), the Wizard and WD have a slightly smaller amount, but can still use daggers, swords and shields along with standard magic weapons. The DH, on the other hand, only has the bow and crossbow. She's not like the Amazon where you also had access to a wide range of throwing weapons. Clearly having two options for weapons compared to all the weapons other classes have access to is something of a slap in the face, and even with three its pretty much the same, but better by a bit.
The DH is a master of new technologies and innovation. She was described as dreaming of new ways to kill demons. If there was some combination of mechanics and magic that allows her to dual wield pistol crossbows, which really isn't nearly as hard to believe as you're making it seem, she would pounce on the opportunity. She's shown to use that combination in other skills (namely Spike Trap), so I don't see why she wouldn't use magic to generate small bolts, with some kind of mechanical innovation that re-cocks the crossbow after it fires. Thats really not terribly far fetched compared to other stuff that exists in Sanctuary.
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Maka that is what makes classes in Diablo unique from each other. Barbs have dual wield 2h weapons because they are powerful(and im pretty sure they would have no problems DWing spears). Dual javelins would work pretty realistically...as they are thrown alone with the rest of the throwing weapons. Monks would have no problem dual-wielding staves...I mean they are a martial arts based class. So every example you stated to be so unrealistic there was just proved logically by the diversity of talents that come along with different classes.
Demon Hunters can DW small crossbows, only problem is an explanation from Blizzard as to why its possible as Bash said. Really if you think its a crap class..don't play it, if you have such a huge problem with a small question of weapon logistics then dont play D3. Really you're just whining now as before where you were making decent arguments. And..really I didnt know that elemental enchanted axes were realistic, must be out of the loop.
:thanks:
As far as game play goes it's undeniable that the capability to use two crossbows adds an extra option for the DH, as stated about. This is fact. Blizzard isn't going to remove is, not only did they say they love it, blizzcon roared in agreement that it was awesome after a guy from the Q/A accused the idea of being "uncreative". It's staying, sorry.
I don't like that she's in stilettos, it's unrealistic, how can she possible fight in high heals, all the other classes where normal shoes, I'm going to go make a thread about it.. -sarcasm- <_<
Its an archetype that is used a lot, and it was missing from D3 before the DH, and imo the DH fills it very well. If you don't like her, don't use her, and if you just don't like dual xbows, then make a DH with a bow or xbow.
I think arcade is the wrong word. Action packed sounds more like it. I really don't see any legitimate complaint against killing more monsters.
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That will still take place, but its more that once you're out of town, you're out in the wilderness and its hard to get back.
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I also have to disagree, with all the skills youll be using playing DH, Vault to get at range, laying traps, and all the tools to snare and slow enemies, you're going to be doing so much that I seriously doubt youll notice the DW xbow animation (if of course you choose to use dual xbows). The Demon Hunter's skills complement the class being a range only class perfectly, even with the small number of skills we know about. Youre going to be constantly Vaulting away from groups and snaring/slowing them, I really dont think it will be as big of a deal that people are making that.