Deadly Reach – Scattered Blows (Spirit Generator) DR still is, unless proven otherwise, the SG with the highest On-Crit-Proc coefficient, hence the SG that will generate the most cyclones from SW. The changes made to Scattered Blows (all hits are now lightning) makes it even more valuable than before.
Mantra of Conviction – Intimidation (Mantra) MoC works well with Mythic Rhythm and I find Intimidation (-15% damage dealt by monsters) to be invaluable at my gear level, running mainly solo T4.
Dashing Strike – Way of the Falling Star (Mobility) Nothing special to say that hasn’t been said already. Just a very good skill to get out of trouble, or to run faster in empty corridors.
Wave of Light – Pillar of the Ancients (Spirit Spender) WoL costs a lot more spirit than Lashing Tail Kick, but since I’m using MoC and MR, I see this as an advantage. Damage wise, it out-performs LTK in AoE situations and performs similarly in single-target situations. It is also a lot easier to use as hits will rarely miss, if this is something you find important.
Epiphany – Desert Shroud (Offensive/Defensive) I’m not using cooldown reduction gear, so I’m not using it often. I save it for when I run into a particularly challenging elite pack to take less damage and kill it faster. Allows me to use WoL 2 times before recasting MoC.
Sweeping Wind – Cyclone (AoE) Not much to say here, I guess. A good skill I’ve always loved, and the best door opening spell in the game.
Passives
Transcendence, Seize the Initiative and One With Everything are all strong defensive skills. STI and OWE are mandatory in my opinion, while Transcendence works well when your Spirit goes into constant yo-yo mode.
Transcendence could be swapped for Exalted Soul. I’m not sure which is best yet, depends on your gear and other sources of healing.
Play-style
One of the reason I love the WoL + MoC + MR combination is that I feel like I’m fully taking advantage of MR. When I was using LTK, there were times when I could spam it, hence not every LTK hit was being buffed by MR. With this build every WoL used benefits of the bonus damage from MR.
The sequence is basically:
Activate Mythic Rhythm through 3 hits from Deadly Reach
Activate Sweeping Wind (so it benefits from MR)
Fully replenish spirit
Activate Mantra of Conviction
Drop Wave of Light
You now have approximately 0 spirit
Replenish spirit
Repeat steps 4 through 7
When Epiphany is activated, you can use 2 WoL during the time MoC is active. This makes it so only 1 in 2 WoL benefits from MR, but it’s still more damage.
Gear
I must specify that I use Band of the Rue Chambers which boosts my spirit generation. The build works well without it, but best with it. Everything falls in place more smoothly with the bonus spirit generation.
All-in-all, I’m rather new to using this build so feel free to comment and elaborate on it.
This is kind of the problem Monks face, by the time you get to your first WoL, other classes have already killed the same pack of mobs you are engaging. Also while activating MR first before SW boosts its damage, starting with generators also mean you're likely to be using generators when already at full spirit. I don't know which way would be more efficient, perhaps pop a MoC first before activating MR. I tried WoL for a bit but found it to cost too much resource for not enough damage in return. I was running with a Barbarian and a Crusader on T4 and was only able to cast one WoL on each pack of mobs. Most packs are dead before the pillar does its full 3s duration. Fire WoL with Cindercoat may be better, but fire builds also favor LTK more.
I think Monks can use a mantra where, on activation, your resource costs are lowered, sort of like Crusader's Laws.
I have a Fire Monk and a Lightning Monk. While the Lightning Monk has higher dps stats (1.551M elemental dps vs 1.242M elemental dps), the Fire Monk plays a lot more fluid and kills faster b/c he's able to spam spirit spenders more often (Cindercoat + CDR gear with Epiphany) whereas the Lightning Monk spends most of her time generating spirit. Sweeping Wind really needs to either stay up for much longer (at least have the first tier last 30s to a min perhaps) or have its cost reduced.
I'm trying to up CDR on the Lightning Monk a bit so I can use Epiphany more often to deal with the spirit starvation. This brings up another issue of us having to use OWE + STI to not die too fast in higher Torment levels. With only two slots left I can't use the combo I really want in Beacon, MR, and Transcendence.
Sorry, but why the hell would you want sweeping wind in this build. Imo replace it with Inner Sanctuary with Forgotten Palace for 30%+ damage and toughness, so you can get dps rune on Epiphany.
Also pick +100 spirit passive and +spirit items, maybe paragons. If you have around 300 spirit you dash into the pack, pop Epiphany and Inner Sanctuary than you make a prison for pack (5 pilars one by one). It kills T4/T5 pack almost instantly with good gear. Mythic Rhytm is nono sorry
If i count properly that is around 7500% weapon damage.
why do you use mantra activation effect? why it is worth to spend 50 spirit to buff pillar for 10 aditional % instead of using another pillar after 2-3 hits?
right now i can turn epiphany, do 3 hits with WitHF and then cast pillar. and thats going on the whole epiphany, without activating my mantra.
edit: right now tried activating mantra while defeating butcher, seems slower than without activating
This is kind of the problem Monks face, by the time you get to your first WoL, other classes have already killed the same pack of mobs you are engaging. Also while activating MR first before SW boosts its damage, starting with generators also mean you're likely to be using generators when already at full spirit. I don't know which way would be more efficient, perhaps pop a MoC first before activating MR. I tried WoL for a bit but found it to cost too much resource for not enough damage in return. I was running with a Barbarian and a Crusader on T4 and was only able to cast one WoL on each pack of mobs. Most packs are dead before the pillar does its full 3s duration. Fire WoL with Cindercoat may be better, but fire builds also favor LTK more.
I think Monks can use a mantra where, on activation, your resource costs are lowered, sort of like Crusader's Laws.
You can skip MoC and go straight for WoL after a dash in the middle of a pack. Works wonder too. I don't feel like I'm running low on spirit, ever. The Band of the Rue Chamber works wonder in this regard.As for Sweeping Wind, I can keep it up for a very long time without having to refresh. In fact, I quite rarely have to refresh it. There's plenty of things to dash into and destroy here and there.
Sorry, but why the hell would you want sweeping wind in this build. Imo replace it with Inner Sanctuary with Forgotten Palace for 30%+ damage and toughness, so you can get dps rune on Epiphany.
Also pick +100 spirit passive and +spirit items, maybe paragons. If you have around 300 spirit you dash into the pack, pop Epiphany and Inner Sanctuary than you make a prison for pack (5 pilars one by one). It kills T4/T5 pack almost instantly with good gear. Mythic Rhytm is nono sorry
If i count properly that is around 7500% weapon damage.
Sweeping is good passive damage. Always up, rarely have to refresh it. Destroys mobs even far away. Not that useful on elites, but then again, they die pretty fast.
Your suggestion of boosting spirit to cast more pillars is interesting. It's one of the reason why I hadn't decided on Transcendence over Exalted Soul yet. I'd be tempted to use Forgotten Palace though as keeping elites together is not that much of an issue. They die pretty fast, and if one gets aways, Epiphany can easily deal with it. But that might be a downside of using WoL over LTK, LTK stuns, WoL doesn't.
why do you use mantra activation effect? why it is worth to spend 50 spirit to buff pillar for 10 aditional % instead of using another pillar after 2-3 hits?
right now i can turn epiphany, do 3 hits with WitHF and then cast pillar. and thats going on the whole epiphany, without activating my mantra.
Good question. My initial thought was that I wanted to pick Transcendence over Exalted Soul, hence I had limited spirit. Casting 2 pillars with limited spirit is impossible, where it's possible to cast MoC + WoL and get back to full spirit before MoC runs out. SW and DR also both benefit from MoC, as do the procs from Thunderfury and Odyn Son. Not to mention everyone else in the party when playing in a group.
Good question. My initial thought was that I wanted to pick Transcendence over Exalted Soul, hence I had limited spirit. Casting 2 pillars with limited spirit is impossible, where it's possible to cast MoC + WoL and get back to full spirit before MoC runs out. SW and DR also both benefit from MoC, as do the procs from Thunderfury and Odyn Son. Not to mention everyone else in the party when playing in a group.
ok, while playing in group spending 50 spirit for MoC before pillar is worth it ofc, but in solo dont think it would be good.
Sorry, but why the hell would you want sweeping wind in this build. Imo replace it with Inner Sanctuary with Forgotten Palace for 30%+ damage and toughness, so you can get dps rune on Epiphany.
Also pick +100 spirit passive and +spirit items, maybe paragons. If you have around 300 spirit you dash into the pack, pop Epiphany and Inner Sanctuary than you make a prison for pack (5 pilars one by one). It kills T4/T5 pack almost instantly with good gear. Mythic Rhytm is nono sorry
If i count properly that is around 7500% weapon damage.
Sweeping is good passive damage. Always up, rarely have to refresh it. Destroys mobs even far away. Not that useful on elites, but then again, they die pretty fast.
Your suggestion of boosting spirit to cast more pillars is interesting. It's one of the reason why I hadn't decided on Transcendence over Exalted Soul yet. I'd be tempted to use Forgotten Palace though as keeping elites together is not that much of an issue. They die pretty fast, and if one gets aways, Epiphany can easily deal with it. But that might be a downside of using WoL over LTK, LTK stuns, WoL doesn't.
No need to stun, you surround them with pillars, which kinda works like croud control. Sweeping Wind only if you have inna 3 piece, otherwise no point.
You can test both setups to see what works best, my setup is for group play.
guys, what do you think of bracers? is it worth to use reapers one instead of strongarms for more pillars, or it would be better to have +30% dmg on the pillar after knockback?
guys, what do you think of bracers? is it worth to use reapers one instead of strongarms for more pillars, or it would be better to have +30% dmg on the pillar after knockback?
I'm not a huge fan of Strongarms, mainly because most yellow elite and bosses are immune to knockbacks, and champion packs usually die quite fast anyway. I'd rather use Reaper's Wraps for more spirit generation or Aughild's for the set bonus. Depends on the rest of your gear though.
guys, what do you think of bracers? is it worth to use reapers one instead of strongarms for more pillars, or it would be better to have +30% dmg on the pillar after knockback?
I'm not a huge fan of Strongarms, mainly because most yellow elite and bosses are immune to knockbacks, and champion packs usually die quite fast anyway. I'd rather use Reaper's Wraps for more spirit generation or Aughild's for the set bonus. Depends on the rest of your gear though.
True, with ~300 spirit pool Reapers should be nice especially if you have WD in group with green frog offhand picking globes with huge range.
WoL is already a lot of spirit, having enough to also benefit from a Mantra activation requires either strong spirit regen (via the mentioned ring or just raw spirit/sec), and/or Chant of Resonance instead of Transcendence in the linked build. I run the latter myself sometimes if the group will greatly benefit from Overawe.However normally I'd recommend taking Mantra of Retribution with Transgression, and picking up the Unity passive - you gain 20% damage for yourself, and 5% damage and 10% attack speed for everybody in your group, without any reliance on the active effect of it (plus the Thorns damage will actually generate some DPS too, just that we can't quantify it).
I've been messing around with the Pillar of the Ancients and I found that Tzo Krin's Gaze makes a huge difference with this skill. It allows the pillar to be dropped anywhere on screen. When combined with items like Shard of Hate and The Fulminator, you can clear some packs before they ever reach you if running the movement slowing rune for MoC.
Very good points and ideas from a lot of folks here. Thanks for the feedback. I'll edit the original post eventually with a better build based upon the provided feedback and further testing of some mechanics.
I'm still unsure as to how Sweeping Wind + Mythic Rhythm snapshotting works in the long run. I'm finding contradictory information as to if it loses the increased damage when another ability benefiting from MR is cast, or when it is refreshed via recasting it. If it loses the increased damage when casting WoL, this is bad as one of the main point of the build is to benefit as much as possible from MR.
I'm also not sure if pillars can be stacked for increased damage. My initial feeling is no, but this is based purely on feel and not in-depth analysis.
One would think that Mythic Rhythm is great for this skill but since you have to use 2 spirit generator rotations to generate enough spirit to use a pillar you actually miss out on 50% of MR's effectiveness (MR buff is applied every 3rd attack from a generator and you need 6 attacks to get the spirit for 1 use of a pillar.
You make a very valid point that to be effective, this build needs to generate enough spirit in 3 hits to recoup the cost of WoL. High spirit regen from skills, items orBand of the Rue Chambersappears to be a must.
I'm also a bit puzzled by the overall execution of the build. Using MoC active is probably good in groups, but solo a second pillar would be more efficient, or not?
My idea behind this build is to try and maximize the use of Mythic Rhythm to make it a viable option, hence cast WoL not as frequently as you'd cast LTK. I saw MoC as a way to boost the damage from all sources: Deadly Reach, Sweeping Wind and Wave of Light. With my gear setup, I have 100% uptime on MoC and 100% uptime on WoL. Pillars don't seem to stack, so more damage from all pillars cast. You're right when you say it's probably better in a group setting, but don't forget the Intimidation rune which reduces damage taken by 15%. There's a survival aspect to this choice, it's not all about damage.
There is a bit of a design problem between Mystic Rhythm and Epiphany. The nice thing with Epiphany is that you can spam spenders (to some extent) while it is up, but then most spenders don't benefit from MR.
You are right on this, these 2 skills don't seem to fit well together. The way I see it though that Epiphany with the Desert Shroud rune is an incredibly survival skill, and as stated in the original post, the main reason why I'm using it. Also, even if the second pillar does not benefit from MR, it's still more damage in the same amount of time. The idea behind using Epiphany is surviving, not dealing more damage. Dealing more damage is just icing on the cake.
However normally I'd recommend taking Mantra of Retribution with Transgression, and picking up the Unity passive - you gain 20% damage for yourself, and 5% damage and 10% attack speed for everybody in your group, without any reliance on the active effect of it (plus the Thorns damage will actually generate some DPS too, just that we can't quantify it).
Part of this build is centered around using MoC for the Intimidation rune. Although your proposition is good, I'd argue it makes for a different build altogether. The idea is to see if I can have 100% uptime on MoC and cast WoL after 3 hits, hence 100% uptime on MoC + WoL AoE. It might not work, maybe it's a bad idea, but I'm trying to find out if it works. Like I said, your proposition is interesting, but it's going in another direction.
I've been messing around with the Pillar of the Ancients and I found that Tzo Krin's Gaze makes a huge difference with this skill.
I had forgotten about this Spirit Stone.. Awesome proposition! I haven't gotten one to drop yet though, so testing from me will have to wait.
It is kind of cool. I went ahead and put together a quick video of it in action. It works better in higher density areas. That and I need either Reaper Wraps or something else to help with spirit generation.
It is kind of cool. I went ahead and put together a quick video of it in action. It works better in higher density areas. That and I need either Reaper Wraps or something else to help with spirit generation.
Nice, but I don't see it really being useful... it seems right now that you can get a bit of damage out before taking any yourself. Do you really feel that it gives you a benefit compared to the usual gameplay, or is it more a fun alternative?
If one gears for it things would be different of course. Since it seems that Pillars don't stack, getting one every 3 seconds would be enough. So consider having something like 15 spirit/second, resource cost reduction to bring it down to 50 spirit, and MoC-slow rune. Then one could really play a ranged monk. Add SSS for some burst on elites, and off we go. 2h weapons might also help here.
Another option would be to use Exploding Palm:Strong Spirit to recover spirit - run in, EP, Pillar, run away
RCR would go a long way, as would more than 39% lightning damage (Wyrmward & THundergod's Vigor would help), its also better in caves/tunnels/buildings (wide open plains like Weeping Hollow are not the best) where the Enchantress's knockback doesn't scatter the champions/elites and they are alreayd grouped closerish.. I'll try recording some indoor footage tonight. Also, the damage ticks from Pillar refresh Sweeping winds, so dropping it on a small group can keep it up while you get to them or beat up another group.
Since ranged monk was mentioned I'll add this: I think LTK - Hands of Ytar is a better choice compared to Pillar since it frees up an item choice, has a lower spirit cost and it already slows by 80% not requiring the slowing Rune from MoC. It has a lower AE range. Cold monk might be a nice change of pace for some people in 2.0.5
The issue with HoY (Assuming 2.0.5 didn't change it) is that it can't go around corners, over floor gaps, or over short walls. Its line of sight only. WoL with Tzo Krin's can for the most part do these. That said, a ranged monk build would probably work as a combination of Holy and Cold. Use Air Ally & SW:Inner Storm for spirit regen and then WotHF: FoF. Use the numbing light rune on WoL along side Rimeheart & Frostburn to make a nice smack build.
Quote fromrathgood
I've been messing around with the Pillar of the Ancients and I found that Tzo Krin's Gaze makes a huge difference with this skill. It allows the pillar to be dropped anywhere on screen. When combined with items like Shard of Hate and The Fulminator, you can clear some packs before they ever reach you if running the movement slowing rune for MoC.
Now that I think about it, this item choice actually seems very nice since pillars do not seem to stack. Makes it so you can place them (almost) wherever you want without having to run around or overlapping 2 pillars. Combined with the Incense Torch of the Grand Temple mentionned below, that would make for one freakishly awesome AoE build.
Here’s the build I’m currently using:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#bkdePS!YXUi!bZacac
Skills
Deadly Reach – Scattered Blows (Spirit Generator)
DR still is, unless proven otherwise, the SG with the highest On-Crit-Proc coefficient, hence the SG that will generate the most cyclones from SW. The changes made to Scattered Blows (all hits are now lightning) makes it even more valuable than before.
Mantra of Conviction – Intimidation (Mantra)
MoC works well with Mythic Rhythm and I find Intimidation (-15% damage dealt by monsters) to be invaluable at my gear level, running mainly solo T4.
Dashing Strike – Way of the Falling Star (Mobility)
Nothing special to say that hasn’t been said already. Just a very good skill to get out of trouble, or to run faster in empty corridors.
Wave of Light – Pillar of the Ancients (Spirit Spender)
WoL costs a lot more spirit than Lashing Tail Kick, but since I’m using MoC and MR, I see this as an advantage. Damage wise, it out-performs LTK in AoE situations and performs similarly in single-target situations. It is also a lot easier to use as hits will rarely miss, if this is something you find important.
Epiphany – Desert Shroud (Offensive/Defensive)
I’m not using cooldown reduction gear, so I’m not using it often. I save it for when I run into a particularly challenging elite pack to take less damage and kill it faster. Allows me to use WoL 2 times before recasting MoC.
Sweeping Wind – Cyclone (AoE)
Not much to say here, I guess. A good skill I’ve always loved, and the best door opening spell in the game.
Passives
Transcendence, Seize the Initiative and One With Everything are all strong defensive skills. STI and OWE are mandatory in my opinion, while Transcendence works well when your Spirit goes into constant yo-yo mode.
Transcendence could be swapped for Exalted Soul. I’m not sure which is best yet, depends on your gear and other sources of healing.
Play-style
One of the reason I love the WoL + MoC + MR combination is that I feel like I’m fully taking advantage of MR. When I was using LTK, there were times when I could spam it, hence not every LTK hit was being buffed by MR. With this build every WoL used benefits of the bonus damage from MR.
The sequence is basically:
Gear
I must specify that I use Band of the Rue Chambers which boosts my spirit generation. The build works well without it, but best with it. Everything falls in place more smoothly with the bonus spirit generation.
All-in-all, I’m rather new to using this build so feel free to comment and elaborate on it.
I think Monks can use a mantra where, on activation, your resource costs are lowered, sort of like Crusader's Laws.
I have a Fire Monk and a Lightning Monk. While the Lightning Monk has higher dps stats (1.551M elemental dps vs 1.242M elemental dps), the Fire Monk plays a lot more fluid and kills faster b/c he's able to spam spirit spenders more often (Cindercoat + CDR gear with Epiphany) whereas the Lightning Monk spends most of her time generating spirit. Sweeping Wind really needs to either stay up for much longer (at least have the first tier last 30s to a min perhaps) or have its cost reduced.
I'm trying to up CDR on the Lightning Monk a bit so I can use Epiphany more often to deal with the spirit starvation. This brings up another issue of us having to use OWE + STI to not die too fast in higher Torment levels. With only two slots left I can't use the combo I really want in Beacon, MR, and Transcendence.
Also pick +100 spirit passive and +spirit items, maybe paragons. If you have around 300 spirit you dash into the pack, pop Epiphany and Inner Sanctuary than you make a prison for pack (5 pilars one by one). It kills T4/T5 pack almost instantly with good gear. Mythic Rhytm is nono sorry
If i count properly that is around 7500% weapon damage.
right now i can turn epiphany, do 3 hits with WitHF and then cast pillar. and thats going on the whole epiphany, without activating my mantra.
edit: right now tried activating mantra while defeating butcher, seems slower than without activating
Sweeping is good passive damage. Always up, rarely have to refresh it. Destroys mobs even far away. Not that useful on elites, but then again, they die pretty fast.
Your suggestion of boosting spirit to cast more pillars is interesting. It's one of the reason why I hadn't decided on Transcendence over Exalted Soul yet. I'd be tempted to use Forgotten Palace though as keeping elites together is not that much of an issue. They die pretty fast, and if one gets aways, Epiphany can easily deal with it. But that might be a downside of using WoL over LTK, LTK stuns, WoL doesn't.
Good question. My initial thought was that I wanted to pick Transcendence over Exalted Soul, hence I had limited spirit. Casting 2 pillars with limited spirit is impossible, where it's possible to cast MoC + WoL and get back to full spirit before MoC runs out. SW and DR also both benefit from MoC, as do the procs from Thunderfury and Odyn Son. Not to mention everyone else in the party when playing in a group.
You can test both setups to see what works best, my setup is for group play.
first mob pack - 500k cyclone crit, after ~20seconds (third pack i guess) 350k crits.
monk so broken = /
I'm still unsure as to how Sweeping Wind + Mythic Rhythm snapshotting works in the long run. I'm finding contradictory information as to if it loses the increased damage when another ability benefiting from MR is cast, or when it is refreshed via recasting it. If it loses the increased damage when casting WoL, this is bad as one of the main point of the build is to benefit as much as possible from MR.
I'm also not sure if pillars can be stacked for increased damage. My initial feeling is no, but this is based purely on feel and not in-depth analysis.
You make a very valid point that to be effective, this build needs to generate enough spirit in 3 hits to recoup the cost of WoL. High spirit regen from skills, items orBand of the Rue Chambersappears to be a must.
My idea behind this build is to try and maximize the use of Mythic Rhythm to make it a viable option, hence cast WoL not as frequently as you'd cast LTK. I saw MoC as a way to boost the damage from all sources: Deadly Reach, Sweeping Wind and Wave of Light. With my gear setup, I have 100% uptime on MoC and 100% uptime on WoL. Pillars don't seem to stack, so more damage from all pillars cast. You're right when you say it's probably better in a group setting, but don't forget the Intimidation rune which reduces damage taken by 15%. There's a survival aspect to this choice, it's not all about damage.
You are right on this, these 2 skills don't seem to fit well together. The way I see it though that Epiphany with the Desert Shroud rune is an incredibly survival skill, and as stated in the original post, the main reason why I'm using it. Also, even if the second pillar does not benefit from MR, it's still more damage in the same amount of time. The idea behind using Epiphany is surviving, not dealing more damage. Dealing more damage is just icing on the cake.
Part of this build is centered around using MoC for the Intimidation rune. Although your proposition is good, I'd argue it makes for a different build altogether. The idea is to see if I can have 100% uptime on MoC and cast WoL after 3 hits, hence 100% uptime on MoC + WoL AoE. It might not work, maybe it's a bad idea, but I'm trying to find out if it works. Like I said, your proposition is interesting, but it's going in another direction.
I had forgotten about this Spirit Stone.. Awesome proposition! I haven't gotten one to drop yet though, so testing from me will have to wait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX80VMUUxUo&feature=youtu.be
The issue with HoY (Assuming 2.0.5 didn't change it) is that it can't go around corners, over floor gaps, or over short walls. Its line of sight only. WoL with Tzo Krin's can for the most part do these. That said, a ranged monk build would probably work as a combination of Holy and Cold. Use Air Ally & SW:Inner Storm for spirit regen and then WotHF: FoF. Use the numbing light rune on WoL along side Rimeheart & Frostburn to make a nice smack build.
Man, I'd like to get my hands on one of these to try it out.
I haven't played much lately, I'll have to test everything that's been discussed eventually.