FPS was so terrible throughout the entire Rift that it was almost unbearable to play. Single digit frame rate all the way!
Yes, I know the video isn't from the POV of a wizard, but that's not the point. You just need to focus on the amount of damage being dished out (yes, even with the horrible lag).
I just put out a video showing the GR59 clear I ran in a group consisting of 1x WD, 1x crusader, 2x Tal Rasha wizards. Basically, it's the same composition we normally see on live, except with the 2x wizards replacing the 2x DHs.
The GR59 Rift Guardian was killed in ~52 seconds (starting around the 13:00 mark). And at a little over 1.8 trillion HP, that equates to the two wizards combining for about 34.6 billion eDPS. This was done with Focus and Restraint.
Going into 2.2, we know the benchmark for DPS is whatever M6 DHs can put out when they're ramped up (which doesn't take long).
If that's to stay, I think it's in the best interest of every class to have at least one type of setup that can be around the max damage output of a geared out M6 DH.
Granted, I don't know exactly on average how much damage a buffed up DH can do in a group setting. Since we're talking about high group GR clears, various videos and stream recordings I've watched put individual DHs around the 10-15 billion eDPS range. Some push out a little higher damage, some a little lower.
Here's what I would like to know. Before 2.2, there is no 150% multiplicative damage boosting Focus and Restraint. If a currently well-geared DH drops both RoRG and SOJ and replaces them with Focus/Restraint, thereby dropping Cindercoat for Marauder's chest, is there an effective damage increase or is it a wash?
Dolynick posted the following numbers regarding DHs and the new Focus and Restraint:
With optimal rolls in both situations, F&R = RRoG+SoJ (vs elites) @ +35.6%. You lose 40% fire, 30% elite but gain 12 CC and 650 Dex (Let's say 12000 vs 12650) for base sheet damage.
Using the above numbers:
If you calculate at +150%, it's x1.843734 damage vs elites (x2.396854 non-elite).
If you calculate at +100% (66.67% resources), it's x1.474987 damage vs elites (x1.917583 non-elite).
If you calculate at +75% (50% resources), it's x1.290614 damage vs elites (x1.677789 non-elite).
125 Hatred -36 for a cast of Cluster Arrow (10% RCR) = 71.2% max resources.
@71.2% Resources, F&R = +106.8% for x1.525137 damage vs elites (x1.982678 non-elite).
125 Hatred -32.4 for a cast of Cluster Arrow (19% RCR) = 74.08% max resources.
@74.08% Resources, F&R = +111.12% for x1.556996 damage vs elites (x2.024095 non-elite).
These multipliers will go up if the DH had less than 12k Dex with RRoG+SoJ.
The "1 Cluster Arrow down" multipliers will go up if they have any +Hatred bonuses or if he has any additional RCR (must be in non-ring/amulet slots).
I'm still going to state again that even if this works out to roughly equal in this specific 4-man, infinite resource for wizards (Power Hungry fed by globe doc) scenario, it's still an awful way of calling it "balanced". Take away the infinite globes (for solo for example) and a DH will hold a much larger percentage of his damage output than a Tal wizard will. It won't even be close. We gain a lot more from a team like this than they do.
And I agree that for solo, DHs will likely do a better job sustaining the damage than a wizard, so we'll have to see how it plays out as the PTR goes along.
But for groups, if M6 DHs in 2.2 are running damage within that range, then it's great. The Tal set's damage is good enough to be competitive. That's the goal. What's left really is some quality of life adjustments to make cycling elements not as clunky and messy.
Power Hungry was the method used to maintain 100% uptime on the focus+restraint buffs on single target. Though even with that, on single target, we sometimes still drop below max arcane power, and since that is a huge dmg loss I used reaper's wraps to speed up our slow passive regen to overcome bad RNG in globe spawns and our power hungry stacks being used up.
Prodigy is useless in the RG fight, but critical when things get hairy while moving through the rift, cleaning up whites chasing you that got missed by the zDPS. Each individual meteor shower ball would crit for ~4.5 billion on the RG for me. Molten impacts around 33bil, star pacts around 45 bil.
I was using ancient devastator, meteor boots, magefists, focus+restraint, and tal's in other slots. Shoulders could be anything.
I've got a working prototype spreadsheet for calculating this builds dps w/infinite power hungry stacks and so far it is looking like it will be improved by an ancient furnace once we get a 7th tal piece. That might be enough to keep up with the power increases that M6 also saw, but as others have said, outside of an infinite health globe situation I don't see us being quite as close to DH in dps as that video would suggest.
I could see room for improvement by adding a mammoth hydra to the build, but honestly with the PTR as it was (or maybe just because of all the meteor spam) that would lag the framerate too much and kill us. We actually dropped hydras for this clear for that very reason.
If it weren't for the lag, and Nyan needing to go, we could've definately cleared much higher.
Looking at this makes me really excited. I love playing my wizard, and this seems like they might finally get a spot in GR grps that takes it just a little bit seriously (not talking about ranking). Would have loved to see this from a wiz perspective just to get a slightly better look at how the dmg looks like waves of dmg. =)
Well, actually I didn't get to see most of my damage, too much lag.
But the rift guardian was pretty clear. I describe the size of the crits in my post above.
Good to see, thanks for sharing Jaetch. Hopefully Wiz's will have a place in higher GRs come next patch. It's been a while since I enjoyed playing wiz (firebird's is the most boring build to me in the game).
That was an entertaining video, I laughed most of the way through. It's great to see people testing alternate group compositions on the PTR and I really hope that when all the changes are finalized we will see some new class combinations in high Grift groups. At the same time I hope Blizz can do something to calm down that lag, holy crap your run made ball lightning look smooth. Good job guys, thanks for the vid, hope you guys had as much fun running that as I had watching it.
At the same time I hope Blizz can do something to calm down that lag, holy crap your run made ball lightning look smooth.
The lag was just because of the 2000% MF buff which led to lots of people playing PTR "just for fun" because it was raining legendaries - not really testing anything at all. The very second the MF buff got deactivated PTR became playable - no queue, no lag anymore.
i'm curious how high this setup could go now after the last wizard nurfs on the PTR? are there still wizards on the PTR testing, or did everyone stop out of frustration?
We might be able to clear that rift seen in the video again, if we had zero lag, but we wouldn't do it was quickly, wouldn't have room for error, and likely couldn't go much higher.
So, its not that strong as dhs, thats okay! Because no one cant EVER EVER balance any class to the same point. But if , lets say, 2x dh wd crus can get grift 62 , and 2x wiz wd crus are able to get 60, its okay!
Im thinking about rolling an season 3 wizard with the new set, so its pretty okay for grouping and solo?
Wizards are far weaker now(3rd PTR patch) than they were in that video(1rst PTR patch).
Cut at the very least in half, if not more.
Meanwhile DHs are stronger than they already are on live.
Blizzard isn't the first developer company to do this, but why does it seem in most online RPGs and MMOs the developers always are out of touch with one or more classes.
FPS was so terrible throughout the entire Rift that it was almost unbearable to play. Single digit frame rate all the way!
Yes, I know the video isn't from the POV of a wizard, but that's not the point. You just need to focus on the amount of damage being dished out (yes, even with the horrible lag).
Copying and pasting most from the official forum.
I just put out a video showing the GR59 clear I ran in a group consisting of 1x WD, 1x crusader, 2x Tal Rasha wizards. Basically, it's the same composition we normally see on live, except with the 2x wizards replacing the 2x DHs.
The GR59 Rift Guardian was killed in ~52 seconds (starting around the 13:00 mark). And at a little over 1.8 trillion HP, that equates to the two wizards combining for about 34.6 billion eDPS. This was done with Focus and Restraint.
Going into 2.2, we know the benchmark for DPS is whatever M6 DHs can put out when they're ramped up (which doesn't take long).
If that's to stay, I think it's in the best interest of every class to have at least one type of setup that can be around the max damage output of a geared out M6 DH.
Granted, I don't know exactly on average how much damage a buffed up DH can do in a group setting. Since we're talking about high group GR clears, various videos and stream recordings I've watched put individual DHs around the 10-15 billion eDPS range. Some push out a little higher damage, some a little lower.
Here's what I would like to know. Before 2.2, there is no 150% multiplicative damage boosting Focus and Restraint. If a currently well-geared DH drops both RoRG and SOJ and replaces them with Focus/Restraint, thereby dropping Cindercoat for Marauder's chest, is there an effective damage increase or is it a wash?
Dolynick posted the following numbers regarding DHs and the new Focus and Restraint:
And I agree that for solo, DHs will likely do a better job sustaining the damage than a wizard, so we'll have to see how it plays out as the PTR goes along.
But for groups, if M6 DHs in 2.2 are running damage within that range, then it's great. The Tal set's damage is good enough to be competitive. That's the goal. What's left really is some quality of life adjustments to make cycling elements not as clunky and messy.
For those curious, this is the build that BDF was running: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UPQabO!aceY!YYZaaZ
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That lag!!!!
We took more than one dirt nap because of that.
It was worse than that when we had mammoth hydra in our builds, we were force to drop it.
Nice Job,
I'm stuck at work so I can't watch the Vid. @BDF2000 what was your gear set up for pieces? Thanks.
RAWGaming.com
I'll just copy/paste my post in the official forum thread:
Well since the video is live....
Build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UPQabO!aceY!YYZaaZ
Power Hungry was the method used to maintain 100% uptime on the focus+restraint buffs on single target. Though even with that, on single target, we sometimes still drop below max arcane power, and since that is a huge dmg loss I used reaper's wraps to speed up our slow passive regen to overcome bad RNG in globe spawns and our power hungry stacks being used up.
Prodigy is useless in the RG fight, but critical when things get hairy while moving through the rift, cleaning up whites chasing you that got missed by the zDPS. Each individual meteor shower ball would crit for ~4.5 billion on the RG for me. Molten impacts around 33bil, star pacts around 45 bil.
I was using ancient devastator, meteor boots, magefists, focus+restraint, and tal's in other slots. Shoulders could be anything.
I've got a working prototype spreadsheet for calculating this builds dps w/infinite power hungry stacks and so far it is looking like it will be improved by an ancient furnace once we get a 7th tal piece. That might be enough to keep up with the power increases that M6 also saw, but as others have said, outside of an infinite health globe situation I don't see us being quite as close to DH in dps as that video would suggest.
I could see room for improvement by adding a mammoth hydra to the build, but honestly with the PTR as it was (or maybe just because of all the meteor spam) that would lag the framerate too much and kill us. We actually dropped hydras for this clear for that very reason.
If it weren't for the lag, and Nyan needing to go, we could've definately cleared much higher.
Well, actually I didn't get to see most of my damage, too much lag.
But the rift guardian was pretty clear. I describe the size of the crits in my post above.
Good to see, thanks for sharing Jaetch. Hopefully Wiz's will have a place in higher GRs come next patch. It's been a while since I enjoyed playing wiz (firebird's is the most boring build to me in the game).
That was an entertaining video, I laughed most of the way through. It's great to see people testing alternate group compositions on the PTR and I really hope that when all the changes are finalized we will see some new class combinations in high Grift groups. At the same time I hope Blizz can do something to calm down that lag, holy crap your run made ball lightning look smooth. Good job guys, thanks for the vid, hope you guys had as much fun running that as I had watching it.
The lag was just because of the 2000% MF buff which led to lots of people playing PTR "just for fun" because it was raining legendaries - not really testing anything at all. The very second the MF buff got deactivated PTR became playable - no queue, no lag anymore.
We might be able to clear that rift seen in the video again, if we had zero lag, but we wouldn't do it was quickly, wouldn't have room for error, and likely couldn't go much higher.
Wizards are far weaker now(3rd PTR patch) than they were in that video(1rst PTR patch).
Cut at the very least in half, if not more.
Meanwhile DHs are stronger than they already are on live.
Blizzard isn't the first developer company to do this, but why does it seem in most online RPGs and MMOs the developers always are out of touch with one or more classes.
Nice post too bad with the awful lag, couldn't stand watching it all.