-The skill tiers we currently have for Wizard may well be out of date.
-Things can be deceiving, and we don't know how everything will work yet.
However, reading through the skills of the Wizard, I feel like the class is missing the real punch that the Sorceress had in Diablo II. The trend in the skills seems to be summoned Aoe spells (Wave of Force, Explosive Blast, Frost Nova, Blizzard, Meteor), or channeled spells (Ray of Frost, Disintegrate, Electrocute). There are a few other offensive skills that are non-melee oriented, but my real point is that there are not any real heavy-hitting, forward momentum type skills. Chain Lightning and Blizzard Orb were some of the most effective skills in the entire game of Diablo II. They did tons of damage (Assuming no immunes :)) and could clear a damn room.
Channeling is always a risky proposition, especially if you're only realistically allowed to hit one target at a time with it. And any kind of fast moving enemy makes summoned aoe like Meteor and Blizzard hard to use without either A. not doing any damage or B. not getting killed.
So, I'd have to say that of all the classes' currently listed skills, I'm least excited about the Wizard. Which to me is very sad because Sorc was my favorite overall class in Diablo II.
with many skills yet to reveal imo wizard will be one of the most explored(test skill combos) class
you wont stick with 1 or 2 spells like in d2: port and chain light, port and chain light; as it seems u have to use strategic decisions on which spells to cast depending on encounter, and use a 1 2 3 or more combos on group of mobs.
2 major spells seem to reveal wizard out from the crowd seem Slow time and Disintegrate. doesnt look like heavy AOE, but wizard surely will not be another dummy in the party.
-The skill tiers we currently have for Wizard may well be out of date.
-Things can be deceiving, and we don't know how everything will work yet.
However, reading through the skills of the Wizard, I feel like the class is missing the real punch that the Sorceress had in Diablo II. The trend in the skills seems to be summoned Aoe spells (Wave of Force, Explosive Blast, Frost Nova, Blizzard, Meteor), or channeled spells (Ray of Frost, Disintegrate, Electrocute). There are a few other offensive skills that are non-melee oriented, but my real point is that there are not any real heavy-hitting, forward momentum type skills. Chain Lightning and Blizzard Orb were some of the most effective skills in the entire game of Diablo II. They did tons of damage (Assuming no immunes :)) and could clear a damn room.
Channeling is always a risky proposition, especially if you're only realistically allowed to hit one target at a time with it. And any kind of fast moving enemy makes summoned aoe like Meteor and Blizzard hard to use without either A. not doing any damage or B. not getting killed.
So, I'd have to say that of all the classes' currently listed skills, I'm least excited about the Wizard. Which to me is very sad because Sorc was my favorite overall class in Diablo II.
Thoughts?
They have plenty of utility to keep mobs away from them, either by slowing, freezing, or teleporting. Hell, from what O'm seeing you could even build a melee wizard. Skills like meteor need timing to land right, or synergy along with some freezing/slowing spells. Yo ucan do a lot more with the wizard now then you could with the sorc, excluding teleport spam.
I'm not even counting rune effects and I see a lot of viable builds. Ofcourse we haven o idea yet if anything is balanced yet, but I'm fairly positive it'll be allright.
Oh, and before I forget; Electrocute is the new chain lightning, especialy with a rune. And how can you say we don't have any hard hitting spells? That's just nonsense, since you haven't even played the finished game yet, it's like crying for balance by only looking at gameplay vids.
Observation of available information =/= crying. And I already conceded all of the points that you felt the need to insult me on (rather than having an actual conversation), so gj ignoring that.
Electrocute is channeled, so that's a huge difference.
How can you say we DO have hard hitting spells, and how can you say 'we can do a lot more than the sorc' when you haven't played the game yet either? Sounds more like nonsense to me.
Finally, someone who thinks 97 billion skill combinations are not enough. But I expected you to show up at least few days later when the game was released...
Even if it 'doesn't exist,' there are going to be a lot of build possibilities. As I've said in other threads, if 99% of those builds are useless, you're still left with 970 million builds per class. In fact, even if only .01% of the builds are viable, thats still 9.7 million builds per class. Obviously those numbers still seem high, but you get the point. Theres going to be plenty of options.
As for your actual concern, I think the Wizard has plenty of skills. A good build probably wouldn't involve that many channeling skills for the reasons you mentioned, so its not like you'll just be standing still the whole time. And you're not taking runes into account. If you don't like channeling skills, put a rune in them that makes it an instant. Not to mention the Wiz has plenty of armor abilities as well that could help if you're having to stand still a lot.
I would agree that a disproportionate amount of Wiz skills are AoE, but I don't think thats really a problem. Especially considering runes will probably make plenty of them single-target.
@Doomscream: why is it sad that he wants more projectile spells? Because they're not as 'spectacular'? Right....I see. That's why Avatar is such a better film than, say, Dr. Strangelove. Now I see your point. Thanks.
Counting runes will deffinately beat the number presented in D2. And most of the D2 spells across the trees worked with a very similar formula:
Glacial Spike - Fire Ball;
Fire Bolt - Frost Bolt;
Blizzard - Meteor to some degree because Blizzard had some delay too.
Nova - Frost Nova
Of course minus the freezing/slowing effect, but I hope you get the idea.
I mean if so much uniform skills dominate the tree it become monotonous, and it feels like you don't have a lot of variety. Only Hydra, Frozen Orb, Charged Bolt and Chain Lighting break the Ice a little.
(Inferno and Fire Wall are a real pain so I rule those out completely).
I am convinced that runes in spells like Arcane Missle and Arcane Orb there will supply enough mechanic changers to provide a 'real punch'. Skills like Charged Bolt, Electrocute and Energy Twister have a good potential too. And was I thinking lately if a runed Energy Twister will release smaller twister similar to the Barbarians runed Whirlwind and to some degree similar to Frozen Orb from D2?
Channeling is always a risky proposition, especially if you're only realistically allowed to hit one target at a time with it.
Only Ray of Frost (unruned) hits one target. Disintrage pierces through many enemies and Electrecute jump off them. So they are not as harsh as a trade-off as you present it to be.
And I hardly believe that the Wizard is "under-represented" in any way, especially when it comes to different skill mechanics and choices.
I think that some of the spells will have really crazy effects while runed, but I think it's part of their philosophy not to create skills that would completely annihilate everything in the room:)
Well, they want us to be more 'god-like'. So in my book god-like will include fast mopping through monsters, but with actual thought involved in the process and not just a simple single skill spam (new term: ssss). Which will definitely be the case since the monster composition will be more complex and we have to manage resources more careful too.
Hmm. I don't believe I ever said Diablo II had it down pat. However, there are a great deal less projectile-based skills here before runes come into play, and since we don't have a lot of information as to how those will effect every skill, my point is still valid.
But speaking of invalid points, inferno is channeled. And it blew. Doing the math in your head now? There are quite a few channeled skills in this line up, and since we all probably had a negative experience with inferno, I'm not sure how you can discount that.
There is straight up no skill like Blizzard orb in the list so far, insofar as that there is nothing that you can cast as a projectile, but will pierce through targets, have a basically aoe type effect as it moves, and is a really solid OFFENSIVE skill. Blizzard and meteor do a ton of damage, but they take time to form, and don't move, so if you **** up your aim, you're up the creek until the CD is gone. And that pretty much seals them as being defensive in nature, because casting it on a group of enemies moving towards you will miss, so you have to lead them and hope they wander into it.
Electrocute =/= chain lightning. It may hit the same number of targets, it may be powerful, but it is channeled and therefore not in the same basic category, despite some similarities, because the way it is used is completely different.
A few things, I said it would be fine with runes because I like to be positive until the game comes out because, up until that point there's really nothing to rage about.
As to the actual point of the thread, from what I understand the higher level skills are meant to be more strategic in their utility so the projectile spells (a super basic mechanic) will only turn up in the first few tiers of skills since nearly all the tier 2 skills are defensive in nature that leaves us with tier 1. Here we find Magic missile and charged bolt on being straight up point an shoot, the other being a cone like AoE (correct me if I'm wrong).
Ok, but what does that mean? Does the Wizard have few basic projectile skills? well, yes, but they are going to be your primary skills throughout the game. how many point and shoot skills do you really need? (I would say no more than 2, One for pure damage and the other to add status ailments. Feel free to disagree)
As for the lack of a Frozen Orb, I look at Arcane orb and think "I bet an indigo rune will turn that into Frozen Orb, and and an alabaster will do the same without changing the element." That was the thought that popped into my head when I first understood how it works/will look.
Bash recently stated that nearly all of the shouts for the Barb in D2 show up in the 2-3 shouts in D3. This tells me that they want to keep the cool stuff they had in D2 and take it into D3, so if your thinking 'man I wish they had something like Lightning storm...' (or whatever skill you happened to love with a cool mechanic) then peruse the skill lists with an active mind and maybe you can conceive a skill that runed could simulate the effect. Does this mean that It will show up? No, but that's why we rage after we have played the game and awesome ideas don't turn up.
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
-The skill tiers we currently have for Wizard may well be out of date.
-Things can be deceiving, and we don't know how everything will work yet.
However, reading through the skills of the Wizard, I feel like the class is missing the real punch that the Sorceress had in Diablo II. The trend in the skills seems to be summoned Aoe spells (Wave of Force, Explosive Blast, Frost Nova, Blizzard, Meteor), or channeled spells (Ray of Frost, Disintegrate, Electrocute). There are a few other offensive skills that are non-melee oriented, but my real point is that there are not any real heavy-hitting, forward momentum type skills. Chain Lightning and Blizzard Orb were some of the most effective skills in the entire game of Diablo II. They did tons of damage (Assuming no immunes :)) and could clear a damn room.
Channeling is always a risky proposition, especially if you're only realistically allowed to hit one target at a time with it. And any kind of fast moving enemy makes summoned aoe like Meteor and Blizzard hard to use without either A. not doing any damage or B. not getting killed.
So, I'd have to say that of all the classes' currently listed skills, I'm least excited about the Wizard. Which to me is very sad because Sorc was my favorite overall class in Diablo II.
Thoughts?
I love the fact now that it seems the wizrd class will take some skill to play, without the use of followers of course. I didnt enjoy sorcs in d2 or any other character that could clear screens in seconds. It took away the fun and strategy out of it for me. But I suppose blizzard will have a overpowered class to satisfy some players.
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-The skill tiers we currently have for Wizard may well be out of date.
-Things can be deceiving, and we don't know how everything will work yet.
However, reading through the skills of the Wizard, I feel like the class is missing the real punch that the Sorceress had in Diablo II. The trend in the skills seems to be summoned Aoe spells (Wave of Force, Explosive Blast, Frost Nova, Blizzard, Meteor), or channeled spells (Ray of Frost, Disintegrate, Electrocute). There are a few other offensive skills that are non-melee oriented, but my real point is that there are not any real heavy-hitting, forward momentum type skills. Chain Lightning and Blizzard Orb were some of the most effective skills in the entire game of Diablo II. They did tons of damage (Assuming no immunes :)) and could clear a damn room.
Channeling is always a risky proposition, especially if you're only realistically allowed to hit one target at a time with it. And any kind of fast moving enemy makes summoned aoe like Meteor and Blizzard hard to use without either A. not doing any damage or B. not getting killed.
So, I'd have to say that of all the classes' currently listed skills, I'm least excited about the Wizard. Which to me is very sad because Sorc was my favorite overall class in Diablo II.
Thoughts?
you wont stick with 1 or 2 spells like in d2: port and chain light, port and chain light; as it seems u have to use strategic decisions on which spells to cast depending on encounter, and use a 1 2 3 or more combos on group of mobs.
2 major spells seem to reveal wizard out from the crowd seem Slow time and Disintegrate. doesnt look like heavy AOE, but wizard surely will not be another dummy in the party.
Observation of available information =/= crying. And I already conceded all of the points that you felt the need to insult me on (rather than having an actual conversation), so gj ignoring that.
Electrocute is channeled, so that's a huge difference.
How can you say we DO have hard hitting spells, and how can you say 'we can do a lot more than the sorc' when you haven't played the game yet either? Sounds more like nonsense to me.
I already proved that number doesn't exist.
Thinly veiled insults ftl.
As for your actual concern, I think the Wizard has plenty of skills. A good build probably wouldn't involve that many channeling skills for the reasons you mentioned, so its not like you'll just be standing still the whole time. And you're not taking runes into account. If you don't like channeling skills, put a rune in them that makes it an instant. Not to mention the Wiz has plenty of armor abilities as well that could help if you're having to stand still a lot.
I would agree that a disproportionate amount of Wiz skills are AoE, but I don't think thats really a problem. Especially considering runes will probably make plenty of them single-target.
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Hmm. I don't believe I ever said Diablo II had it down pat. However, there are a great deal less projectile-based skills here before runes come into play, and since we don't have a lot of information as to how those will effect every skill, my point is still valid.
But speaking of invalid points, inferno is channeled. And it blew. Doing the math in your head now? There are quite a few channeled skills in this line up, and since we all probably had a negative experience with inferno, I'm not sure how you can discount that.
There is straight up no skill like Blizzard orb in the list so far, insofar as that there is nothing that you can cast as a projectile, but will pierce through targets, have a basically aoe type effect as it moves, and is a really solid OFFENSIVE skill. Blizzard and meteor do a ton of damage, but they take time to form, and don't move, so if you **** up your aim, you're up the creek until the CD is gone. And that pretty much seals them as being defensive in nature, because casting it on a group of enemies moving towards you will miss, so you have to lead them and hope they wander into it.
Electrocute =/= chain lightning. It may hit the same number of targets, it may be powerful, but it is channeled and therefore not in the same basic category, despite some similarities, because the way it is used is completely different.
As to the actual point of the thread, from what I understand the higher level skills are meant to be more strategic in their utility so the projectile spells (a super basic mechanic) will only turn up in the first few tiers of skills since nearly all the tier 2 skills are defensive in nature that leaves us with tier 1. Here we find Magic missile and charged bolt on being straight up point an shoot, the other being a cone like AoE (correct me if I'm wrong).
Ok, but what does that mean? Does the Wizard have few basic projectile skills? well, yes, but they are going to be your primary skills throughout the game. how many point and shoot skills do you really need? (I would say no more than 2, One for pure damage and the other to add status ailments. Feel free to disagree)
As for the lack of a Frozen Orb, I look at Arcane orb and think "I bet an indigo rune will turn that into Frozen Orb, and and an alabaster will do the same without changing the element." That was the thought that popped into my head when I first understood how it works/will look.
Bash recently stated that nearly all of the shouts for the Barb in D2 show up in the 2-3 shouts in D3. This tells me that they want to keep the cool stuff they had in D2 and take it into D3, so if your thinking 'man I wish they had something like Lightning storm...' (or whatever skill you happened to love with a cool mechanic) then peruse the skill lists with an active mind and maybe you can conceive a skill that runed could simulate the effect. Does this mean that It will show up? No, but that's why we rage after we have played the game and awesome ideas don't turn up.
I love the fact now that it seems the wizrd class will take some skill to play, without the use of followers of course. I didnt enjoy sorcs in d2 or any other character that could clear screens in seconds. It took away the fun and strategy out of it for me. But I suppose blizzard will have a overpowered class to satisfy some players.