It's a tough call. Arc Lightning will hit ALL targets for 80% weapon damage, probably very similar to "Cone of Cold" from WoW. Chain Lightning will hit six targets, but there's a reduced damage penalty in there for the jumps. You're not hitting all six targets for 80%. The exact mechanics are unknown, except there IS a damage penalty on "jumps" where Arc Lightning will not suffer from this.
I am sort of assuming electrocute doesn't decrease on jump anymore as that part was removed from the tooltip... It seems incredibly unlikely that something that important would have been simplified out of the tooltip. As for Arc Lightning an example would be Cone of Cold in WoW which has a very different range from Shadowflame... The size of the cone is incredibly important, and from the rune videos it didn't seem big enough to hit more than 6 targets on average. (Ofcourse it is likely better in narrow hallway zones)
It's a tough call. Arc Lightning will hit ALL targets for 80% weapon damage, probably very similar to "Cone of Cold" from WoW. Chain Lightning will hit six targets, but there's a reduced damage penalty in there for the jumps. You're not hitting all six targets for 80%. The exact mechanics are unknown, except there IS a damage penalty on "jumps" where Arc Lightning will not suffer from this.
I am sort of assuming electrocute doesn't decrease on jump anymore as that part was removed from the tooltip... It seems incredibly]unlikely that something that important would have been simplified out of the tooltip.
It's too good otherwise. It would be a startling oversight if the jump penalty was removed.
As for Arc Lightning the size of the cone is incredibly important, and from the rune videos it didn't seem big enough to hit more than 6 targets on average. (Of course it is likely better in narrow hallway zones)
I agree, I think Arc Lightning will be best used as a go-to AoE spell for a build that mostly focuses on single target, like perhaps some kind of Ray of Frost build, which lacks AE potential (Only Blizzard, really.)
I don't see why it would be too good.. Good for sure, but other classes have spammable cheap/free aoe that does more damage(for example, bola shot, and cleave) ... The only real advantages electrocute have is that its cast speed is ridiculously fast compared to everything else and that the aoe aspect doesn't require enemies to be super tightly grouped.
If it doesn't diminsh I think chain lightning will almost always be better than arc lightning.
If it doesn't diminsh I think chain lightning will almost always be better than arc lightning.
Probably. But it will diminish. Electrocute hitting six times for 80% weapon damage is a spammable, zero-cost ability that hits for 480% weapon damage. That sounds a little too good to me.
But hey, I haven't looked closely at the other classes. Last I saw, the tooltip read jumps reduced damage. Could have been changed. Maybe it was removed altogether.
That is with the rune, not the base version, which is just 240%, when Bola shot hits 3 targets it is 350%, when cleave hits 3 targets it is 360%. Just looking at percentages electrocute seems like garbage, but anyone that used it in beta or watched a video knows how fast it is compared to other cast times.
I think it is more an issue of magic missile, and spectral blades runes sucking(though I am not sure maybe the spectral blades 20 yard rune could be good) and electrocute looking good in comparison.
I think it is more an issue of magic missile, and spectral blades runes sucking(though I am not sure maybe the spectral blades 20 yard rune could be good) and electrocute looking good in comparison.
I have no idea why you'd never use Electrocute. It's simply far and away the best signature spell.
If it doesn't diminsh I think chain lightning will almost always be better than arc lightning.
Probably. But it will diminish. Electrocute hitting six times for 80% weapon damage is a spammable, zero-cost ability that hits for 480% weapon damage. That sounds a little too good to me.
But hey, I haven't looked closely at the other classes. Last I saw, the tooltip read jumps reduced damage. Could have been changed. Maybe it was removed altogether.
I think it only does 80% per target it hits; I doubt it would do 480% to one target if thats all it hit; because that would make it the best single target dps the wiz has - and have a free cast.
Never indicated that it would hit the same target six times for 480% only that I think it would do 480% if 6 targets are in range... other aoes such as 20 yard arcane orb have the potential to easily do 2000 or 3000% damage or more, as far as aoes go, it isn't strong, but it is free and fast and has a lot of passives that could make it better... If it does diminish on chains I don't think it compares very well to bola shot for example..
I feel this build has a good mix of AoE, single target, and defense. The goal for the gear set is to get as much crit chance as possible (cap is 75%) to take advantage of the Critical Mass passive, which in turn would allow be to turn into an Archon more often.
Electrocute//Lightning Blast -- Main generator ability, plus what ill be using for AoE damage. I'm open to suggestions on the rune. Disintegrate//Intensify -- Main spender ability, while a channel. Does high single target damage. Teleport//Wormhole -- Defensive ability. I choose Wormhole rune so that I can tele toward melee, drop slow time, then tele outwards to safety. Slow Time//Stretch Time -- group buff + enemy debuff. Energy Armor//Energy Tap -- offers resistances, plus more AP for a longer Disintegrate channel. Archon//Pure Power -- major DPS cooldown. with Evocation passive, Pure Power rune, and Critical Mass passive, this should be up fairly often. Assuming no critical hits, Archon will be available every ~1:25 minutes.
With regards to passives, I have Critical Mass, Evocation, and Prodigy. Prodigy is the only one I'm unsure about, since 4AP seems less substantial considering a 120AP pool. Perhaps Astral Presence would be better? It would allow for a longer disintegrate channel.
I've been toying around with a build that uses Electrocute as a signature spell.
http://d3db.com/tool...or/wizard/16031 Electrocute//Lightning Blast -- Main generator ability, plus what ill be using for AoE damage. I'm open to suggestions on the rune.
Good post, good build. Couple things. Lightning Blast may be better then Chain Lightning if all the enemies are close together; otherwise you'd be wise to go with Chain Lightning.
Disintegrate//Intensify -- Main spender ability, while a channel. Does high single target damage.
I debated going with Intensify myself, but I figured I wouldn't be needing much specific single target in co-op play. Wizards are designed, really, to be mostly the glass Canon AE type. I figured I'd play to our strengths.
Teleport//Wormhole -- Defensive ability. I choose Wormhole rune so that I can tele toward melee, drop slow time, then tele outwards to safety.
Teleport/Wormhole seems to be "bugged" at the moment, in a double-edged way. It allows you to teleport endlessly, as long as you keep doing it within the 1 second animation, before it starts the cooldown. That's really useful, but not really fun for Sorcs and other classes. "Hey Sorc, go tele and find the next champion/named/boss"
Energy Armor//Energy Tap -- offers resistances, plus more AP for a longer Disintegrate channel.
If my resistances are good, I'll be using Shocking Aspect. If they suck, I'll be using this and Glass Cannon, which goes hand in hand with Energy/Arcane Tap.
Archon//Pure Power -- major DPS cooldown. with Evocation passive, Pure Power rune, and Critical Mass passive, this should be up fairly often. Assuming no critical hits, Archon will be available every ~1:25 minutes.
I thought long and hard about Archon. It's a good ability, no question. I decided to change it for Magic Weapon/Electrify, which has passive 10% more damage and the proc to deal 10% more lightning damage to 3 enemies, which should work on Disintegrate.
With regards to passives, I have Critical Mass, Evocation, and Prodigy. Prodigy is the only one I'm unsure about, since 4AP seems less substantial considering a 120AP pool. Perhaps Astral Presence would be better? It would allow for a longer disintegrate channel.
Passives are really hard right now. If you don't need AP, you don't need Prodigy. If you have Energy Armor, you should have Glass Cannon. Paralysis Sucks. that's all we know ;-)
Thank you for the suggestions. I went ahead with (some) of your suggestions and swapped the runes on Slow Time (not sure why I didn't pick Time Warp rune, it's obviously better for the purposes of my set up) and Electrocute.
I originally had Magic Weapon//Electrify instead of Energy Armor//Energy Tap, but ultimately swapped because I felt (within my group) we'd have enough AoE for trash mobs, and I'd end up mainly using Disintegrate for rares/elites/bosses. It will end up coming down to my resistances at the end of Hell/start of Inferno as to which will end up better for me based on the gear and attributes I have available.
I think I'll be keeping the Teleport//Wormhole rune; as much as it would suck to be the "finder" for elites, I rather like the idea of having a GTFO ability. If it becomes a serious concern, Reversal rune seems fine for my purposes. As for Archon, I'll have to see for myself how it plays out in practice.. it seems like a really strong cooldown.
What ability would you suggest in place of Disintegrate?
My biggest problem with disintegrate is that it doesn't really accomplish anything special. As far as piercing line aoes I don't think it is much better than lightning blast electrocute, it doesn't have the massive aoe potential as 20 yard arcane orb, or 22 yard blizzard, doesn't do top of line single target damage, not to mention arcane has the worst of passives.
I think it is actually best in a build that uses shock pulse as its signature ability or tries to go no signature with lots of regen. The one patch it had a 0 cost rune I was kind of excited.
My biggest problem with disintegrate is that it doesn't really accomplish anything special.
It's a key spell, punching through mobs to get to the mob behind that's summoning stuff. Honestly, it's the runes that are really outstanding. It becomes guaranteed hit on the correct mob for good damage, or a wicked AE.
My biggest problem with disintegrate is that it doesn't really accomplish anything special.
It's a key spell, punching through mobs to get to the mob behind that's summoning stuff. Honestly, it's the runes that are really outstanding. It becomes guaranteed hit on the correct mob for good damage, or a wicked AE.
I guess I just feel the circle based aoes hit a lot more targets, and have a much higher damage per cast potential, not to mention you can be more mobile and don't need to be standing still. You can teleport to get to a back summoner if you need, or just electrocute them from anywhere anytime (either the line based one or the 6 target one) I'd really like to see attack speeds listed by blizzard or a fansite somewhere to fairly compare various abilities as electrocute is probably twice as fast or more than most other abilities. I really doubt disintegrate out damages electrocute by very much in the average monster scenario, and is probably a downgrade after you factor in the ap consumption.
As far as line based aoes go.. The WD's giant fire bat is a 220% line based aoe, the DH's piercing impale is 250%, the Barb's line seismic slam is 255%, so really disintegrate doesn't compare favorably with anything.
A low cost turret not being 'good enough' for Inferno? Doubt it.
Hydras are obviously good.. it is more damage in a single cast, or for 15 ap than you could accomplish to a single target any other way[except the reflecting armors].. The question is, is it really worth one of your 6 skill slots.
As far as line based aoes go.. The WD's giant fire bat is a 220% line based aoe, the DH's piercing impale is 250%, the Barb's line seismic slam is 255%, so really disintegrate doesn't compare favorably with anything.
I don't think looking at the pure numbers for weapon damage % would be an accurate method of measuring how favorable a skill is seeing how the damage % on the talent calculator sometimes seem to imply that class damage is not balanced at all.
Besides, there are also other factors to consider, namely range and maneuverability.
A low cost turret not being 'good enough' for Inferno? Doubt it.
Hydras are obviously good.. it is more damage in a single cast, or for 15 ap than you could accomplish to a single target any other way[except the reflecting armors].. The question is, is it really worth one of your 6 skill slots.
I would say it would depend on your build.
But if you were saying it in terms of 'is it ever worth giving it a skill slot' then I would answer yes. If it is a good skill then it merits a skill slot. If it doesn't merit a skill slot then it's simply bad, there's no in-between.
If it is a good skill then it merits a skill slot. If it doesn't merit a skill slot then it's simply bad, there's no in-between.
After level 60 you can't change your skills without losing your buff... If you could, then you would just add hydra to your build just before every boss.. Also It is perfectly acceptable for one person in the group to choose 6 skills with no aoe abilities while others focus on more on aoe. Not to mention the power of hydra is greatly dependent on how fast enemies die, if it is too fast the skill is bad, but every pack takes 15 seconds the skill is universally great.
If the question was, is hydra a skill that is universally good in all types of builds (like say electrocute, frost nova, and teleport) then the answer is no. Does it have a place in some builds, in some group compositions? I think so.
All things considered (and all skill runes) I think it is one of the worst wizard abilities, but it is not nearly as bad as arcane twister, or magic missile
If the question was, is hydra a skill that is universally good in all types of builds (like say electrocute, frost nova, and teleport) then the answer is no. Does it have a place in some builds, in some group compositions? Really you would only add hydra to your build just before every boss. (but you can't do this at 60, because it resets neph valor)
This, pretty much. Wizard single target seems to be low, and Hydra would be a good help to that. But 90% of the time, you'd probably want extra survivability here, or something generally more useful.
I am sort of assuming electrocute doesn't decrease on jump anymore as that part was removed from the tooltip... It seems incredibly unlikely that something that important would have been simplified out of the tooltip. As for Arc Lightning an example would be Cone of Cold in WoW which has a very different range from Shadowflame... The size of the cone is incredibly important, and from the rune videos it didn't seem big enough to hit more than 6 targets on average. (Ofcourse it is likely better in narrow hallway zones)
It's too good otherwise. It would be a startling oversight if the jump penalty was removed.
I agree, I think Arc Lightning will be best used as a go-to AoE spell for a build that mostly focuses on single target, like perhaps some kind of Ray of Frost build, which lacks AE potential (Only Blizzard, really.)
If it doesn't diminsh I think chain lightning will almost always be better than arc lightning.
Probably. But it will diminish. Electrocute hitting six times for 80% weapon damage is a spammable, zero-cost ability that hits for 480% weapon damage. That sounds a little too good to me.
But hey, I haven't looked closely at the other classes. Last I saw, the tooltip read jumps reduced damage. Could have been changed. Maybe it was removed altogether.
I think it is more an issue of magic missile, and spectral blades runes sucking(though I am not sure maybe the spectral blades 20 yard rune could be good) and electrocute looking good in comparison.
I have no idea why you'd never use Electrocute. It's simply far and away the best signature spell.
Never indicated that it would hit the same target six times for 480% only that I think it would do 480% if 6 targets are in range... other aoes such as 20 yard arcane orb have the potential to easily do 2000 or 3000% damage or more, as far as aoes go, it isn't strong, but it is free and fast and has a lot of passives that could make it better... If it does diminish on chains I don't think it compares very well to bola shot for example..
Here is the Wizard build I've been considering for Inferno mode, 4-person Co-op.
http://d3db.com/tool...or/wizard/16031
I feel this build has a good mix of AoE, single target, and defense. The goal for the gear set is to get as much crit chance as possible (cap is 75%) to take advantage of the Critical Mass passive, which in turn would allow be to turn into an Archon more often.
Electrocute//Lightning Blast -- Main generator ability, plus what ill be using for AoE damage. I'm open to suggestions on the rune.
Disintegrate//Intensify -- Main spender ability, while a channel. Does high single target damage.
Teleport//Wormhole -- Defensive ability. I choose Wormhole rune so that I can tele toward melee, drop slow time, then tele outwards to safety.
Slow Time//Stretch Time -- group buff + enemy debuff.
Energy Armor//Energy Tap -- offers resistances, plus more AP for a longer Disintegrate channel.
Archon//Pure Power -- major DPS cooldown. with Evocation passive, Pure Power rune, and Critical Mass passive, this should be up fairly often. Assuming no critical hits, Archon will be available every ~1:25 minutes.
With regards to passives, I have Critical Mass, Evocation, and Prodigy. Prodigy is the only one I'm unsure about, since 4AP seems less substantial considering a 120AP pool. Perhaps Astral Presence would be better? It would allow for a longer disintegrate channel.
I debated going with Intensify myself, but I figured I wouldn't be needing much specific single target in co-op play. Wizards are designed, really, to be mostly the glass Canon AE type. I figured I'd play to our strengths.
Teleport/Wormhole seems to be "bugged" at the moment, in a double-edged way. It allows you to teleport endlessly, as long as you keep doing it within the 1 second animation, before it starts the cooldown. That's really useful, but not really fun for Sorcs and other classes. "Hey Sorc, go tele and find the next champion/named/boss"
Slow Time/Time warp is strictly superior to Stretch time. Need to change your rune on this.
If my resistances are good, I'll be using Shocking Aspect. If they suck, I'll be using this and Glass Cannon, which goes hand in hand with Energy/Arcane Tap.
I thought long and hard about Archon. It's a good ability, no question. I decided to change it for Magic Weapon/Electrify, which has passive 10% more damage and the proc to deal 10% more lightning damage to 3 enemies, which should work on Disintegrate.
Passives are really hard right now. If you don't need AP, you don't need Prodigy. If you have Energy Armor, you should have Glass Cannon. Paralysis Sucks. that's all we know ;-)
I originally had Magic Weapon//Electrify instead of Energy Armor//Energy Tap, but ultimately swapped because I felt (within my group) we'd have enough AoE for trash mobs, and I'd end up mainly using Disintegrate for rares/elites/bosses. It will end up coming down to my resistances at the end of Hell/start of Inferno as to which will end up better for me based on the gear and attributes I have available.
I think I'll be keeping the Teleport//Wormhole rune; as much as it would suck to be the "finder" for elites, I rather like the idea of having a GTFO ability. If it becomes a serious concern, Reversal rune seems fine for my purposes. As for Archon, I'll have to see for myself how it plays out in practice.. it seems like a really strong cooldown.
What ability would you suggest in place of Disintegrate?
None. It's probably the best attack a Wizard has. You need this.
I think it is actually best in a build that uses shock pulse as its signature ability or tries to go no signature with lots of regen. The one patch it had a 0 cost rune I was kind of excited.
It's a key spell, punching through mobs to get to the mob behind that's summoning stuff. Honestly, it's the runes that are really outstanding. It becomes guaranteed hit on the correct mob for good damage, or a wicked AE.
A low cost turret not being 'good enough' for Inferno? Doubt it.
I guess I just feel the circle based aoes hit a lot more targets, and have a much higher damage per cast potential, not to mention you can be more mobile and don't need to be standing still. You can teleport to get to a back summoner if you need, or just electrocute them from anywhere anytime (either the line based one or the 6 target one) I'd really like to see attack speeds listed by blizzard or a fansite somewhere to fairly compare various abilities as electrocute is probably twice as fast or more than most other abilities. I really doubt disintegrate out damages electrocute by very much in the average monster scenario, and is probably a downgrade after you factor in the ap consumption.
As far as line based aoes go.. The WD's giant fire bat is a 220% line based aoe, the DH's piercing impale is 250%, the Barb's line seismic slam is 255%, so really disintegrate doesn't compare favorably with anything.
Hydras are obviously good.. it is more damage in a single cast, or for 15 ap than you could accomplish to a single target any other way[except the reflecting armors].. The question is, is it really worth one of your 6 skill slots.
Besides, there are also other factors to consider, namely range and maneuverability.
I would say it would depend on your build.
But if you were saying it in terms of 'is it ever worth giving it a skill slot' then I would answer yes. If it is a good skill then it merits a skill slot. If it doesn't merit a skill slot then it's simply bad, there's no in-between.
After level 60 you can't change your skills without losing your buff... If you could, then you would just add hydra to your build just before every boss.. Also It is perfectly acceptable for one person in the group to choose 6 skills with no aoe abilities while others focus on more on aoe. Not to mention the power of hydra is greatly dependent on how fast enemies die, if it is too fast the skill is bad, but every pack takes 15 seconds the skill is universally great.
If the question was, is hydra a skill that is universally good in all types of builds (like say electrocute, frost nova, and teleport) then the answer is no. Does it have a place in some builds, in some group compositions? I think so.
All things considered (and all skill runes) I think it is one of the worst wizard abilities, but it is not nearly as bad as arcane twister, or magic missile
This, pretty much. Wizard single target seems to be low, and Hydra would be a good help to that. But 90% of the time, you'd probably want extra survivability here, or something generally more useful.
And may the odds be ever in your favour.
Emmo#2406