Phrozen, you probably no more about Diablo's lore than anyone else. Blizzard staff included.
A good compliment, but untrue. I'm quite sure that the individuals that created and wrote the lore know a tad more.
Remember, the Diablo books are an independent writer's take on Blizzard's Lore. The books are not consistent with Diablo lore; they can't be, Knaak needs to create more lore in order to write full-length books. When you're comparing the two, you're going to find discrepancies for the same reason I find differences in comparing an apple and a strawberry.
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The final test of the Serpent's Form takes place in "The Pit of 12 Vipers." The initiates are not told about the 13th.
Remember, the Diablo books are an independent writer's take on Blizzard's Lore. The books are not consistent with Diablo lore; they can't be, Knaak needs to create more lore in order to write full-length books. When you're comparing the two, you're going to find discrepancies for the same reason I find differences in comparing an apple and a strawberry.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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I agree 100% with italofoca. I did not like the sin wars trilogy exactly because of the reason he mentioned. when people and beings have divine unset powers it's just the end of good story telling. all I read in those three novels was the protagonist overcoming obstacles with new found power. it's like anything would happen to him and all we needed to do was wait for his divine powers to bail him out!!! <_<
a good fantasy story involves many parties, with different ideologies and agendas. it involves alliances of regular non divine beings who overcome obstacles not with divined power, but with wit, cooperation, skill and a little luck. and much like italofoca said the more is left a mystery the better.
I also believe going with the idea that humans are angel demon hybrids was bad idea. It added nothing to the story, it just limited it! if they had maintained that humans are just humans a natural native element of sanctuary a world among many more. and that heaven and hell are just the isolated elements of a binary universe, it would have left their hands much more open! just think of it if humans are angel/demon hybrids then what are the critters in the world?
If I were in charge of diablo 3 story I would totally ignore the sin wars. humans are not nephalim descendants, sanctuary existed with with out inarius creating it(just as it was so in the first diablo) and angels while not the salvation of humanity are not a threat to humanity like the demons are (the sin wars trilogy explanation for why heaven isn't good was very weak!"they are strict!! so humans don't like them" I bet humans would rather all the strictness of the angels if it meant they would be saved from demons killing them.
case in point the sin wars trilogy did nothing but make the diablo universe a Saturday morning cartoon.
p.s. about the world stone; It was never said that demons and angels would not be able to enter sanctuary, they could by being anchored to a human or being conjured by some summoning ritual. what the world stone did was it prevented demons and angels from being on sanctuary permanently with out a host, and so prevented large scale invasion.
it's like anything would happen to him and all we needed to do was wait for his divine powers to bail him out!!!
I definitely agree with you there. There's probably ten times in the books where his powers suddenly just save him in the face of the grave ever-present danger. But that's a story-telling issue and doesn't necessarily impact the lore behind it all that much.
I also believe going with the idea that humans are angel demon hybrids was bad idea. It added nothing to the story, it just limited it! if they had maintained that humans are just humans a natural native element of sanctuary a world among many more. and that heaven and hell are just the isolated elements of a binary universe, it would have left their hands much more open! just think of it if humans are angel/demon hybrids then what are the critters in the world?
I would have to disagree. The fact that humans are the descendants of Heaven and Hell fits well into the universe. It explains why Sanctuary is special and why humans are of particular interest. There are hints of other worlds in the books, but this cosmological design seems to define the central point: humanity is at the heart of this conflict.
As for what critters are, that's a good point. I'd advise you to read the first cosmology. I argue that Sanctuary did exist before Inarius came, there just weren't no humans. It's not entirely accurate, as I've found some contradicting points, but I still think it's largely accurate.
(the sin wars trilogy explanation for why heaven isn't good was very weak!"they are strict!! so humans don't like them" I bet humans would rather all the strictness of the angels if it meant they would be saved from demons killing them.
Right... 1984 was such a blast, I'm sure humanity would enjoy strict angelic rule. And like Trag'Oul says in the books, humanity would probably choose order if they were presented with a choice. But the end result would not be much better.
p.s. about the world stone; It was never said that demons and angels would not be able to enter sanctuary, they could by being anchored to a human or being conjured by some summoning ritual. what the world stone did was it prevented demons and angels from being on sanctuary permanently with out a host, and so prevented large scale invasion.
Demons do not need a host to enter Sanctuary. There is not a single point in the books where a demon or angel ever take a host other than purely for subterfuge (and that's only Lilith). And you can cry foul at crappy book lore here, but even if we disregard the books there's little evidence to support that the Three needed hosts to remain on Sanctuary.
They needed hosts because they were trapped inside of stones, and moving or doing just about anything is quite hard when you're inside of a stone.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
On the point about Baal "searching for the Worldstone".
I think the most probable reason for writing that line is that it was a story element thought up during early development of LoD, and so they had not decided all the fine details back then, particularly Mephisto's pack with the Angiris Council, and what they did to the Worldstone, which were only developed for the Sin War books.
However, I really don't feel it's an issue. It's best explained by assuming that Tyrael was implying that Baal is going to Mount Arreat to look for the Worldstone because he knew it was there, as that was what Mephisto had relayed to him. Therefore, Baal didn't know the exact specific location of the Worldstone.
I also believe going with the idea that humans are angel demon hybrids was bad idea. It added nothing to the story, it just limited it! if they had maintained that humans are just humans a natural native element of sanctuary a world among many more. and that heaven and hell are just the isolated elements of a binary universe, it would have left their hands much more open! just think of it if humans are angel/demon hybrids then what are the critters in the world?
I disagree.
I feel that making humans the offsprings of angels and demons is one of the most amazing plot details of the Diablo universe.
It felt rather revelatory to read about this idea in the Sin War books, and it brings a sense of grandeur to the whole story.
More importantly, it neatly explains how humans are able to be powerful enough to kill the Prime Evils, which before this, was thought to be simply a "game mechanic".
Lastly, positioning humans as descended from the union of angels and demons is new and unique. It's not something I have ever heard rehashed in any other medieval, heaven/hell fiction.
However, I really don't feel it's an issue. It's best explained by assuming that Tyrael was implying that Baal is going to Mount Arreat to look for the Worldstone because he knew it was there, as that was what Mephisto had relayed to him. Therefore, Baal didn't know the exact specific location of the Worldstone.
That's a good point, and I agree with you: I doubt there was even an Angiris Council at the time LoD aws created. And in truth, even if Mephisto did know where the soulstone was it still works with the lore from both the novels and the games.
The one problem that I see arising from this is that if the Three knew of the Worldstone, why didn't they run straight to it when they were first banished? But it might well have been that they did but were continually stopped by the Horadrim and other orders. And there's still the issue of Talic, Korlic and Madawc. Whether the Three knew of them specifically, they knew Arreat was guarded, and Baal appears very determined to avoid contact with them during LoD. Perhaps they needed to build up strength after being banished, or perhaps they needed an army to decimate any form of resistance.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
You've missed the central problem. The barrier that Tyrael talks about in LoD isn't there in the books, Heaven and Hell already know that Sanctuary exist. So destroying the stone won't make Sanctuary visible, that effect doesn't seem to matter anymore.
If my theory is correct, or if D2 lore is true, then Tyrael shatters the stone to prevent a situation where only Hell can invade Sanctuary while Heaven can't do anything about it.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
You've missed the central problem. The barrier that Tyrael talks about in LoD isn't there in the books, Heaven and Hell already know that Sanctuary exist. So destroying the stone won't make Sanctuary visible, that effect doesn't seem to matter anymore.
If my theory is correct, or if D2 lore is true, then Tyrael shatters the stone to prevent a situation where only Hell can invade Sanctuary while Heaven can't do anything about it.
I agree, that is probably the reason tyrael destroyed it. If hell could invade and heaven could do nothing about it, then heaven would be completely screwed.
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If you want to arrange it
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If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
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A good compliment, but untrue. I'm quite sure that the individuals that created and wrote the lore know a tad more.
Remember, the Diablo books are an independent writer's take on Blizzard's Lore. The books are not consistent with Diablo lore; they can't be, Knaak needs to create more lore in order to write full-length books. When you're comparing the two, you're going to find discrepancies for the same reason I find differences in comparing an apple and a strawberry.
Blizzard knows what Knaak wrote and checked it. It's certainly not independent.
a good fantasy story involves many parties, with different ideologies and agendas. it involves alliances of regular non divine beings who overcome obstacles not with divined power, but with wit, cooperation, skill and a little luck. and much like italofoca said the more is left a mystery the better.
I also believe going with the idea that humans are angel demon hybrids was bad idea. It added nothing to the story, it just limited it! if they had maintained that humans are just humans a natural native element of sanctuary a world among many more. and that heaven and hell are just the isolated elements of a binary universe, it would have left their hands much more open! just think of it if humans are angel/demon hybrids then what are the critters in the world?
If I were in charge of diablo 3 story I would totally ignore the sin wars. humans are not nephalim descendants, sanctuary existed with with out inarius creating it(just as it was so in the first diablo) and angels while not the salvation of humanity are not a threat to humanity like the demons are (the sin wars trilogy explanation for why heaven isn't good was very weak!"they are strict!! so humans don't like them" I bet humans would rather all the strictness of the angels if it meant they would be saved from demons killing them.
case in point the sin wars trilogy did nothing but make the diablo universe a Saturday morning cartoon.
p.s. about the world stone; It was never said that demons and angels would not be able to enter sanctuary, they could by being anchored to a human or being conjured by some summoning ritual. what the world stone did was it prevented demons and angels from being on sanctuary permanently with out a host, and so prevented large scale invasion.
I would have to disagree. The fact that humans are the descendants of Heaven and Hell fits well into the universe. It explains why Sanctuary is special and why humans are of particular interest. There are hints of other worlds in the books, but this cosmological design seems to define the central point: humanity is at the heart of this conflict.
As for what critters are, that's a good point. I'd advise you to read the first cosmology. I argue that Sanctuary did exist before Inarius came, there just weren't no humans. It's not entirely accurate, as I've found some contradicting points, but I still think it's largely accurate.
Right... 1984 was such a blast, I'm sure humanity would enjoy strict angelic rule. And like Trag'Oul says in the books, humanity would probably choose order if they were presented with a choice. But the end result would not be much better.
Demons do not need a host to enter Sanctuary. There is not a single point in the books where a demon or angel ever take a host other than purely for subterfuge (and that's only Lilith). And you can cry foul at crappy book lore here, but even if we disregard the books there's little evidence to support that the Three needed hosts to remain on Sanctuary.
They needed hosts because they were trapped inside of stones, and moving or doing just about anything is quite hard when you're inside of a stone.
I think the most probable reason for writing that line is that it was a story element thought up during early development of LoD, and so they had not decided all the fine details back then, particularly Mephisto's pack with the Angiris Council, and what they did to the Worldstone, which were only developed for the Sin War books.
However, I really don't feel it's an issue. It's best explained by assuming that Tyrael was implying that Baal is going to Mount Arreat to look for the Worldstone because he knew it was there, as that was what Mephisto had relayed to him. Therefore, Baal didn't know the exact specific location of the Worldstone.
I feel that making humans the offsprings of angels and demons is one of the most amazing plot details of the Diablo universe.
It felt rather revelatory to read about this idea in the Sin War books, and it brings a sense of grandeur to the whole story.
More importantly, it neatly explains how humans are able to be powerful enough to kill the Prime Evils, which before this, was thought to be simply a "game mechanic".
Lastly, positioning humans as descended from the union of angels and demons is new and unique. It's not something I have ever heard rehashed in any other medieval, heaven/hell fiction.
The one problem that I see arising from this is that if the Three knew of the Worldstone, why didn't they run straight to it when they were first banished? But it might well have been that they did but were continually stopped by the Horadrim and other orders. And there's still the issue of Talic, Korlic and Madawc. Whether the Three knew of them specifically, they knew Arreat was guarded, and Baal appears very determined to avoid contact with them during LoD. Perhaps they needed to build up strength after being banished, or perhaps they needed an army to decimate any form of resistance.
If my theory is correct, or if D2 lore is true, then Tyrael shatters the stone to prevent a situation where only Hell can invade Sanctuary while Heaven can't do anything about it.
I agree, that is probably the reason tyrael destroyed it. If hell could invade and heaven could do nothing about it, then heaven would be completely screwed.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask