Thats exactly the point (which you missed aparantly). You have a point of reference that its normal to have eyes. If you didnt know about the elite add-ons, you wouldnt know what you're missing, thus you wouldnt feel short changed, or disadvantaged.
Yeah, I guess my posts didnt make much sense. The point I was trying to convey is that you need to look at the glass as being half full! You can look at it as the normal game being crippled, and elite mode being the norm, and let it ruin the game for you, or you can look at it as the normal game will still kick ass, and elite will be even better. A ferrari's faster than a corvette, but that doesnt mean a corvette sucks....
All a matter of perspective, and how optimistic of a person you are I guess. I know I'll give the game a chance. I'll buy it for sure, then decide if its worthy of 10$ a month. I wont boycott a wicked ass game over something so trivial as point of view.
NoExplanation gave an example of a game with an expansion 2 weeks after its release making the arguement it isn't really an expansion anymore (you can't expand a game in 2 weeks)
This will be ON its release, so there goes the "expansion arguement".
No I didn't. My example was a "Starter Pack" (Included SWG, Expansion Pack 1, Expansion Pack 2, Expansion Pack 3 and Expansion Pack 4) 2 weeks after expansion pack 4 came out.
Expansion Pack 4 by its self was sold for $30. Two weeks later the starter pack that included all and the 4th was only $19.99.
They did not add any information other then the access of 1 shuttle system item that was only available if you purchased the cheaper "Starter Pack."
Hellgate is a complete game singleplayer. If you purchased it and played it you would get the full satisfaction of completing the storyline. Which in essence is a full game. To access the extra bonus features, Multiplayer and extended levels and difficulites is obsolutely normal and totally fine with me and a large population.
You feel like you are being cheated just because the information is on the same CD?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
Expansion Pack 4 by its self was sold for $30. Two weeks later the starter pack that included all and the 4th was only $19.99.
They did not add any information other then the access of 1 shuttle system item that was only available if you purchased the cheaper "Starter Pack."
I think the main reason Sony did that was when they released the Expansion along with the NGE they found that their player base and sales were shrinking.
So they made the "Starter Pack" just to rake in the rest of the cash and let it die.
But, what does this example have to do with the Hellgate situation?
But, what does this example have to do with the Hellgate situation?
It was to prove a point of ethics. Read my post from the previous page.
Quote from "Equinox" »
No, it's not complete, that is the problem.
Are you completing a main story line content? Yes. Its complete. Is there more? Yes, but you pay for it. That is not unheard of and you know about it up front. So its a matter of if you feel its worth paying the money to you.
Its not the smartest buisness tactic but doesn't make it unethical. They are not attempting to trick you. Up front people that are not willing to pay will be turned away from the game. People that don't want to invest further into it can purchase it play the single player and then evaluate if they want to invest further.
You few are acting so suprised by this. /shrug
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
from what i read the restrictions are supposed to be applied for the Multiplayer content only. I would guess that on game launch the singleplayer content will be the same with the paid multiplayer content. Problem will be after the first paid content patches. I'm thinking they'll most likely sell those (locations, quests, items, new skills etc) all together as a full price expansion for the singleplayer for which i cant say i agree with. Besides, they're supposed to develop that stuff with the money people are paying them with in the multiplayer version and theres no server and hacks to ruin the game in singleplayer anyway.
I still don't see how it is right to let people pay extra for singleplayer content already created.
That is holding back and i do not agree with it.
Coming from someone who downloads games illegally, your statement doesn't surprise me.
Here's my 2 cents: I have worked in the field now for a little over 3 years and from someone who works in the field, everygame has items and characters that have been created for the original game that have been cut by quality assurance or by Lead. A lot of these extra creations generally find themselves in later patches expansions or other things.
What you are paying for in a game is the story. You play a character through to the content of a story. They have chosen how much of that story you get to play.
These developers do not have money tree's where they have endless resources to make games and content for you at will. By purchasing a game you are helping them pay for what they have already created or what they hope is enough to secure them to move onto a new title.
This is a buisness risk they assume the role of taking. So either support them cause you enjoy their concepts, design or vision (Hellgate) or stop crying over the fact that you feel you are owed something for nothing because they don't owe you shit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
Nah, it's a marketing act. You buy the game for the full price, and then you get the feeling of playing the cut game, so you want to get the rest of the game, but it's pay2play. I think it's a lousy marketing act.
If you can, can you link us to info where it is explained better please
i got it from a gaming magazine. It didnt tell how it goes on singleplayer but that the difference is on the multiplayer versions. Normal and Elite. Not sure if they have it online tho. But when you offer a game that supposedly gives "free multiplayer" its not nice to have a cut version as an offer. If its a trial give a free multiplayer trial for 2 weeks that gives what the normal version gives.
During CES 2007, it was announced that the game will support a single player mode as well as some form of free online gaming, but also a paid online mode, where it is still to be decided exactly which method of payment that will be used. [2] Bill Roper, founder and CEO of Flagship Studios, confirmed this in later interviews.[3]
The pricing model for Hellgate London was initially discussed as being extremely similar to both Diablo II (because of the Blizzard North connection) and Guild Wars, another of Diablo's spiritual descendants. This was especially thought to be true of the expansion based pricing model that involved no monthly fees. When Flagship hinted at monthly fees in January, 2007[4], many fans expressed their shock and discontent, with some who planned to pre-order the game claiming they would no longer purchase it at all. [5] Because the game is instanced like Guild Wars and Diablo — not truly massive — some gamers believe that monthly fees are especially unfair[citation needed] because instanced games generate far less server load, with users' computers doing much of the work. This would make the pricing structure similar to the Phantasy Star Online games.
Finally, this pricing decision moves the game into more direct competition with the popular World of Warcraft, which dominates the monthly fee massively multiplayer online role-playing game genre. A subscription plan costing 10 dollars a month has been announced in Games for Windows magazine.[citation needed] Shacknews reported a price of $9.95 per month. Those players who pay the fee will be allowed twelve character slots instead of 3, access to a Hardcore mode similar to Diablo II, the ability to bypass server queues, storage of 40 items instead of 20, the ability to create guilds, the ability to achieve officer status, Elite-only equiment, access to VIP shuttles, and 24-hour customer support. Elite and non-Elite players will be able to interact in all ways in the game. Non-Elite players can join guilds.[6]
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
Okay, there not making you pay for the single player.
The single-player IS JUST THE SINGLE PLAYER.
I'm pretty sure the Elite wont effect the Singleplayers at all.
So All you people who dont feel like paying little money, just to play online can just go pirate the fucking game.
The "ELITE" Option is to pay 10$ a month.
And it just adds extra content for MULTIPLAYER ONLY. Because the extra ELITE options wouldnt really work for SinglePlayer would they?
THE FREE VERSION INCLUDES: MULTI-PLAYER (FREE)-3 character slots
Access to everything included with the Single-player package
Customer Service during regular business hours(presumed)
Can Join Guilds, but can not create them or use advanced officer functions
Can play along-side Subscribers on SECURE SERVERS
Patching/Balance fixes
Can not use Subscriber only items
20 item universal storage
THE ELITE VERSION INCLUDES:
12 character slots
Access to everything included with the Single-player package
Customer Service 24/7 support
Can Join and Create guilds, as well as use advanced officer functions
Can play with the Free accounts on SECURE SERVERS
Patching/Balance fixes
Additional Content added regularly, with large quarterly upgrades.
High quality, speciality skins for dropped items (Elite players will have unique looks)
Ability to trade 'elite' items among other elite players
Additional gameplay modes (hardcore, various types of pvp, etc)
40 item universal storage
VIP shuttles, unknown as to what these are for
No wait-time to join specific areas
Lvl-cap of 50
Can buy and use Guild Housing ---------
All I have to say is: If your going to play this Online, You might as well pay for it.
NONE OF THIS would benefit your single player experience, because the Singleplayer is a Package that is totally unrelated to the multiplayer.
And if you read the above, you can see that almost ALL of those extras wouldnt really effect your singleplayer experience. I know theres stuff like "Reguraly Added Content" and *Special Elite Items" well thats just the benefit for playing multiplayer.
The game was meant for Multiplayer.
I hope all of you can Understand this. Its Simple.
Play the single player if thats what you want to do.
If you want to take it to the next level.
Then you play the game, and pay online to Experience Hellgate even further with PEOPLE.
different difficulty (nightmare/hell) which was supposed to be offered in the elite version is easily applicable on singleplayer to. Same goes with the universal stash (one huge for all characters). Also the elite items should be important in singleplayer too and they havent said anything about it yet. Without all these things the game wont be able to keep us at all.
Single player games dont usually keep people hooked that long.
They play through it once, then they quit.
And who would play this single player if you can see how much fun it would be to play online with your friends.
I can see all of you are whining about the singleplayer.
Why???
This game is absolutley a multiplayer game just like diablo.
And fingle your a WoW player, whats with this.
Like I just said, its not gonna keep you hooked that long if your JUST in it for the singleplayer
Seems like the argument is somewhat dead now; it does seem as if Singleplayer will be unaltered. And if that's the case, then I must agree that Flagship has communicated poorly here, I never caught on to this once.
Yes, extra stash, elite items and nightmare etc. would be applicable in SP, but that doesn't mean SP will enable it.Though I'm sure someone will mod it in there.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
Nono, you knew that "cutting in half" doesn't mean litterally cutting it in half, the argument was lame and you know it, but you still desided too use it so don't "whine" about that when i pointed that out.
Regardless of what my intentions with the argument were, they don't change the argument itself in any way. The argument was applied wrongly, and so all that should be done is to point that out.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
I hope you are right, but i don't like too count on for example mods or patches to "fix" a game.
I was more talking about downloading the official patches somewhere else while not paying the game, thus enabling all extra content in SP. Though this seems to be needles now that I think Flagship never meant for this to be available in SP.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Nah, it's a marketing act. You buy the game for the full price, and then you get the feeling of playing the cut game, so you want to get the rest of the game, but it's pay2play. I think it's a lousy marketing act.
Call it lousy if you wish, they still need to make money. And it's not much different from playing a game after it's first expansion has come out.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Call it lousy if you wish, they still need to make money. And it's not much different from playing a game after it's first expansion has come out.
Don't give me that shit, Phrozen. We don't have the game. Everyone has to make money, but marketing is a way to get more money than your game deserves. Good games sell, period. Look at blizzard. They had any of that crap? No. And what are they now, richest company. Because they had great games and great support of their games.
Expansions are not p2p, that's the problem. So if a part of singleplayer is cut off and it is passed on with multiplayer (which i don't give a damn about), that's kind of ridiculous.
From what i hear its going to be split form p2p and free play if u p2p u get more content and better items and quests. im talking about online play ATM because well it just more fun. i hope they eather keep it split/ all free or maby $5 per month they'll get alot more players and buyers if its not like WoW (cause WoW is gay) some of u may be rich idk idc but all i know is im buying it as soon as its out all i need is the game requirements -.-
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Three Tenants of The Hashshashin Brotherhood
Tenant 1: Stay your blade from the flesh of the innocent
Tenant 2: Hide in plain sight. Let the people mask you that you become one with the crowd
All a matter of perspective, and how optimistic of a person you are I guess. I know I'll give the game a chance. I'll buy it for sure, then decide if its worthy of 10$ a month. I wont boycott a wicked ass game over something so trivial as point of view.
No I didn't. My example was a "Starter Pack" (Included SWG, Expansion Pack 1, Expansion Pack 2, Expansion Pack 3 and Expansion Pack 4) 2 weeks after expansion pack 4 came out.
Expansion Pack 4 by its self was sold for $30. Two weeks later the starter pack that included all and the 4th was only $19.99.
They did not add any information other then the access of 1 shuttle system item that was only available if you purchased the cheaper "Starter Pack."
Hellgate is a complete game singleplayer. If you purchased it and played it you would get the full satisfaction of completing the storyline. Which in essence is a full game. To access the extra bonus features, Multiplayer and extended levels and difficulites is obsolutely normal and totally fine with me and a large population.
You feel like you are being cheated just because the information is on the same CD?
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
So they made the "Starter Pack" just to rake in the rest of the cash and let it die.
But, what does this example have to do with the Hellgate situation?
It was to prove a point of ethics. Read my post from the previous page.
Are you completing a main story line content? Yes. Its complete. Is there more? Yes, but you pay for it. That is not unheard of and you know about it up front. So its a matter of if you feel its worth paying the money to you.
Its not the smartest buisness tactic but doesn't make it unethical. They are not attempting to trick you. Up front people that are not willing to pay will be turned away from the game. People that don't want to invest further into it can purchase it play the single player and then evaluate if they want to invest further.
You few are acting so suprised by this. /shrug
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
Coming from someone who downloads games illegally, your statement doesn't surprise me.
Here's my 2 cents: I have worked in the field now for a little over 3 years and from someone who works in the field, everygame has items and characters that have been created for the original game that have been cut by quality assurance or by Lead. A lot of these extra creations generally find themselves in later patches expansions or other things.
What you are paying for in a game is the story. You play a character through to the content of a story. They have chosen how much of that story you get to play.
These developers do not have money tree's where they have endless resources to make games and content for you at will. By purchasing a game you are helping them pay for what they have already created or what they hope is enough to secure them to move onto a new title.
This is a buisness risk they assume the role of taking. So either support them cause you enjoy their concepts, design or vision (Hellgate) or stop crying over the fact that you feel you are owed something for nothing because they don't owe you shit.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
i got it from a gaming magazine. It didnt tell how it goes on singleplayer but that the difference is on the multiplayer versions. Normal and Elite. Not sure if they have it online tho. But when you offer a game that supposedly gives "free multiplayer" its not nice to have a cut version as an offer. If its a trial give a free multiplayer trial for 2 weeks that gives what the normal version gives.
http://www.answers.com/topic/hellgate-london?cat=entertainment
Pricing
During CES 2007, it was announced that the game will support a single player mode as well as some form of free online gaming, but also a paid online mode, where it is still to be decided exactly which method of payment that will be used. [2] Bill Roper, founder and CEO of Flagship Studios, confirmed this in later interviews.[3]
The pricing model for Hellgate London was initially discussed as being extremely similar to both Diablo II (because of the Blizzard North connection) and Guild Wars, another of Diablo's spiritual descendants. This was especially thought to be true of the expansion based pricing model that involved no monthly fees. When Flagship hinted at monthly fees in January, 2007[4], many fans expressed their shock and discontent, with some who planned to pre-order the game claiming they would no longer purchase it at all. [5] Because the game is instanced like Guild Wars and Diablo — not truly massive — some gamers believe that monthly fees are especially unfair[citation needed] because instanced games generate far less server load, with users' computers doing much of the work. This would make the pricing structure similar to the Phantasy Star Online games.
Finally, this pricing decision moves the game into more direct competition with the popular World of Warcraft, which dominates the monthly fee massively multiplayer online role-playing game genre. A subscription plan costing 10 dollars a month has been announced in Games for Windows magazine.[citation needed] Shacknews reported a price of $9.95 per month. Those players who pay the fee will be allowed twelve character slots instead of 3, access to a Hardcore mode similar to Diablo II, the ability to bypass server queues, storage of 40 items instead of 20, the ability to create guilds, the ability to achieve officer status, Elite-only equiment, access to VIP shuttles, and 24-hour customer support. Elite and non-Elite players will be able to interact in all ways in the game. Non-Elite players can join guilds.[6]
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
The single-player IS JUST THE SINGLE PLAYER.
I'm pretty sure the Elite wont effect the Singleplayers at all.
So All you people who dont feel like paying little money, just to play online can just go pirate the fucking game.
The "ELITE" Option is to pay 10$ a month.
And it just adds extra content for MULTIPLAYER ONLY.
Because the extra ELITE options wouldnt really work for SinglePlayer would they?
THE FREE VERSION INCLUDES:
MULTI-PLAYER (FREE)-3 character slots
Access to everything included with the Single-player package
Customer Service during regular business hours(presumed)
Can Join Guilds, but can not create them or use advanced officer functions
Can play along-side Subscribers on SECURE SERVERS
Patching/Balance fixes
Can not use Subscriber only items
20 item universal storage
THE ELITE VERSION INCLUDES:
12 character slots
Access to everything included with the Single-player package
Customer Service 24/7 support
Can Join and Create guilds, as well as use advanced officer functions
Can play with the Free accounts on SECURE SERVERS
Patching/Balance fixes
Additional Content added regularly, with large quarterly upgrades.
High quality, speciality skins for dropped items (Elite players will have unique looks)
Ability to trade 'elite' items among other elite players
Additional gameplay modes (hardcore, various types of pvp, etc)
40 item universal storage
VIP shuttles, unknown as to what these are for
No wait-time to join specific areas
Lvl-cap of 50
Can buy and use Guild Housing
---------
All I have to say is: If your going to play this Online, You might as well pay for it.
NONE OF THIS would benefit your single player experience, because the Singleplayer is a Package that is totally unrelated to the multiplayer.
And if you read the above, you can see that almost ALL of those extras wouldnt really effect your singleplayer experience.
I know theres stuff like "Reguraly Added Content" and *Special Elite Items" well thats just the benefit for playing multiplayer.
The game was meant for Multiplayer.
I hope all of you can Understand this. Its Simple.
Play the single player if thats what you want to do.
If you want to take it to the next level.
Then you play the game, and pay online to Experience Hellgate even further with PEOPLE.
Single player games dont usually keep people hooked that long.
They play through it once, then they quit.
And who would play this single player if you can see how much fun it would be to play online with your friends.
I can see all of you are whining about the singleplayer.
Why???
This game is absolutley a multiplayer game just like diablo.
And fingle your a WoW player, whats with this.
Like I just said, its not gonna keep you hooked that long if your JUST in it for the singleplayer
Yes, extra stash, elite items and nightmare etc. would be applicable in SP, but that doesn't mean SP will enable it.Though I'm sure someone will mod it in there.
Regardless of what my intentions with the argument were, they don't change the argument itself in any way. The argument was applied wrongly, and so all that should be done is to point that out.
I was more talking about downloading the official patches somewhere else while not paying the game, thus enabling all extra content in SP. Though this seems to be needles now that I think Flagship never meant for this to be available in SP.
Call it lousy if you wish, they still need to make money. And it's not much different from playing a game after it's first expansion has come out.
Have you seen the gameplay videos lol.
Expansions are not p2p, that's the problem. So if a part of singleplayer is cut off and it is passed on with multiplayer (which i don't give a damn about), that's kind of ridiculous.
Tenant 1: Stay your blade from the flesh of the innocent
Tenant 2: Hide in plain sight. Let the people mask you that you become one with the crowd
Tenant 3: Never compromise the brotherhood