im pretty sure we are centuries away from using stem cells to 'enhance' the human body. they are being used for treating diseases such as graft vs. host and ALS as well as for brain and spinal cord damage.
and its not the destroying of embryos that is causing all the pro-lifers (aka idiots) to cry, its the destroying of a blastocyte, a ball of cells. lame.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
This is all pointless without a single argument of what's so bad about the stemcells, exactly.
I am currently compiling a list, as I mentioned in an earlier post... I am hoping to be finished tomorrow... the arguments are definitely existent... It is just a matter of deciphering the mumbo-jumbo that these scientist type's expect normal people to understand. I am currently in the process of trying to do that...
Anyway, I'm really anticipating your consequences. I wish thee the best of luck.
[Off Topic]
I also want to say that it's really hard to write stuff normal people are supposed to read when you now a huge amount of little scientific details.
Or it's a conspiracy. It's SO bad, that they don't want the people to know about it
I am currently compiling a list, as I mentioned in an earlier post... I am hoping to be finished tomorrow... the arguments are definitely existent... It is just a matter of deciphering the mumbo-jumbo that these scientist type's expect normal people to understand. I am currently in the process of trying to do that...
you can just copy and paste them in for me, i can understand most of it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
You keep calling it a pandora's box... many things had worse labels when they came out... such as chain stores, franchises, and large corporations... all these were considered the anti-christ. Now its kinda hard to imagine a world without Mc Donalds or Bank of America. The main thing is that inteligent people have the equal power to do good or bad. Thats the thing about inteligence its the most powerful tool, thus comes the saying knowledge is power. I learned that from one of the smartest people i know. See human nature is very neutral to begin with... we are not considered good or bad, most humans just do whats in their best interest regardless of it being good or bad. Almost all other countries say Americans are greedy... yet in America we are trained to think we are not greedy, we call it rational human behavior... if someone is starving, and beging for food they will probably take any job giving them any money. Which comes to make you think why exactly is it written Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
at the base of the statue of liberty??? Obviously you can create a pretty cheap workforce with these kind of people... in the end you are taking advantage of these people... but thats the way the world works and has always worked.. you have a few very rich people and everyone else is usually very poor. Thats the way most economys work just because those with money usually have the power and want alot of it. Buissness people are heartless, you cant have emotion as a buissness person, for a buissness person's job is to make the most money possible and your not going to give away your "hard earned" money to just anyone for any reason.
So anyways back to the topic, this could actually be quite postive for an American economy. If we become the leaders in stem cell research we have created an industry which is what this country is lacking. We dont produce anything... and if we do we produce inferior products and sell them at the same price as the better ones. This bill that is being passed is crap most of the jobs being created are construction jobs... so the gov is hiering constr. comp. to fix/build roads and what not... who do you think is getting the jobs, ill tell you its once again the tired, the poor, the huddled masses and usually these are illegals that the boss says hey you want some money.. ok do this all day and youll get 50 bucks... and they will do a good job so they can get another 50 tomorrow. With an industry like stem cell research and other inovative technologies we can lead the world to a new age... but rebuilding what we have is just like hmmm i only have 500 bucks and i have two options... i can invest it and make it grow, or i can paint my house.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
"we are not considered good or bad, most humans just do whats in their best interest regardless of it being good or bad." Too bad most people have no idea what's really in their best interest. Why do you think everyone is so miserable? This is something the world fails to teach anybody, something you will have to discover for yourself...
And, believe it or not, there are people with brains in businesses (a heartless person has no brains, they're as stupid and miserable as everyone else, contrary to popular belief). Don't categorize, that's a secure way to failure.
If stem cell is launched, I doubt it will stay American for a very long time. Considering the low quality of American produce, I'd rather give it to Germans...
When you have the luxury of looking at someones life from the outside and also in the future... it can be said most people are not making the decisions that are in their best interest... but the truth most people at the time they make their desicions are infact thinking they are making the best desicion...
I never said business people are stupid, they are some of the smartest people... But usually making the most money means someone else is losing out... and there is such thing as legaly stealing... such as a company that lets say builds an oil well... the owners are investors, the project is run by a board... the board then starts using the well to produce oil... and the investors are getting a return on their investment, and they decide to create more oil wells... then a few years go by and the board starts selling all the equipment... so what happened was that investors gave this board money, they took it bought all this oil well equipment, and then sold it and put the money in some secret bank acount... its alot more complicated in court though usually it is about how the oil well doesnet fuction properly and its just not going to work... but wheres the money... no one knows... this is a true story btw
And i must agree with you that possibly another country will become the leaders of this project, using americans money lol.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
****************** LONG POST WARNING, BUT INSIGHTFUL ********************
I am going to attempt to explain the ins and outs of the stem cell research debate, as thereis alot of mis-information and rhetoric surrounding this issue.
First of all....Stem Cell research was never "banned" in the US.
The US Government since 2001 has given $100m to embryonic stem cell research (for embryos already slated for harvest up to that point) and $250m for adult stem cell research.
The "ban" in this bill was only restricted to FEDERAL FUNDS for research.
The research done on embryonic stem cells has been less than promising, in numbers of cases, researchers have found that embryonic stem cell therapy has had tumorous results. Yes, you read that right....embryonic stem cell therapy has consistently produced tumorous growths.
A number of countries (Spain in particular) has mostly abandoned embryonic stem cell therapy research in humans and is focusing on adult stem cell research in humans as it doesn't have the high tumor rate found in embryonic stem cell therapy.
If you have seen a few of the articles where researchers are able to regenerate an organ for someone, like the lady (in France iirc) where they regrew her an esophagus, you need to realize these were done with ADULT STEM CELLS from the SAME PATIENT.
Furthermore, researches can now harvest embryonic stem cells from amniotic fluid, baby teeth and now it seems.....even from a single human hair.
So, if all of this is true....if embryonic stem cell therapy has been a failure....and adult stem cell therapy has produced nearly all of the positive results....why are we still arguing?
Be assured, adult stem cell research still goes on to this day in the US.
The battle that is being waged over the stem cells isn't really about stem cells.
The far left needs embryos to remain non-life, a non-entity to keep it's arguments for abortion viable. So if an embryo is nothing and can be destroyed for human gain, then an embryo in a woman can be destroyed for her gain.
The far right is desperately looking to make embryos life so they can combat the abortion debate, because one of the mandates of the US constitution is to preserve life.
So why, if researchers can do their research, and the adult stem cell therapy trials look so promising, and we can now get embryonic stem cells without destroying an embryo, are we still arguing this point!!??
Certain researchers are actually fanning this argument, enlisting the far left to help them to their ends, and they have won it seems, because after all of this, there is one thing you CANNOT DO with adult stem cells that you CAN DO with embryonic stem cells.
Clone another embryo.
All of this fighting after all of this time isn't really about getting a "ban" overturned that never really was a "ban" to begin with, it is about getting the non-cloning clause removed.
Only time will tell if they succeed that far, but they have already won a first step victory.
I haven't had time to look through Obama's resolution to discern what all it entails, hell, they might have already won.
I don't see what the big deal about it was. It's not like they were going around impregnating people, killing their babies to gather fetuses. There were MANY MANY ways to get stem cells WITHOUT killing anything.
People fucking piss me off sometimes. Especially ones that were devoutly against this citing aborition. You know what? Those people need to take their religious fantacism and shove it. This is the United States of America, not the United Christian States of America.
This research will do FAR more good than it ever will harm.
Comment of 2009 so far. Lol.
I agree completely with you and Goodguy. Can't wait where this leads us.
@ Betterthanyou: Wow, that was a very informative post. I have to honestly say I didn't know most of that. It was also very neutral politically, which is where I believe science should stay. I'm sick of liberals and conservatives making these things so political, because it often does more harm to the science's visage than it does help. In any case, I'm probably going to look more in to what you've said via the marvelous, all-knowing Google, but thanks for that. It sparked my curiosity in many ways.
If stem cell is launched, I doubt it will stay American for a very long time. Considering the low quality of American produce, I'd rather give it to Germans...
Yeah, because Germany has such a nice track record with any sort of power.
Thank you Magistrate for your kind words. What you said here, really made my day.
Quote from "Magistrate" »
I'm probably going to look more in to what you've said via the marvelous, all-knowing Google, but thanks for that. It sparked my curiosity in many ways.
Here is a website you may wish to consider showing pro/cons of both types of therapy........and the successes of stem cell therapy.
http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/ If the site looks one sided.....it is......but the truth in the evidence speaks for itself. How many people in this thread would actually believe that there are 72 treatments or cures out today using stem cells.
Yet, the average person on the street (or even the OP here) seem totally oblivious to what is actually happening in our world today.
"Eh, what? I thought Bush banned stem cells." <------this is not an uncommon response
Or even better.....are the people on here that are actually expressing adulation over what they do not understand, and worse yet....will undoubtedly give credit to any further stem cell research break throughs to Obama, when all he did was come in at the tail end of it. Now THATS a politician.
The extent of the peoples ignorance greatly depresses me.
Only when you constantly seek the truth are you your own person, once you stop seeking the truth do you belong to them.
and its not the destroying of embryos that is causing all the pro-lifers (aka idiots) to cry, its the destroying of a blastocyte, a ball of cells. lame.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I am currently compiling a list, as I mentioned in an earlier post... I am hoping to be finished tomorrow... the arguments are definitely existent... It is just a matter of deciphering the mumbo-jumbo that these scientist type's expect normal people to understand. I am currently in the process of trying to do that...
Anyway, I'm really anticipating your consequences. I wish thee the best of luck.
[Off Topic]
I also want to say that it's really hard to write stuff normal people are supposed to read when you now a huge amount of little scientific details.
Or it's a conspiracy. It's SO bad, that they don't want the people to know about it
Join the chat!
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
This is certainly harder than I thought... I am still struggling to understand many things.
Pandora's box is open.. I accept that... now we must attempt to begin to analyze the beast that crept out.
Bare with me.. I have almost completed it.:)
at the base of the statue of liberty??? Obviously you can create a pretty cheap workforce with these kind of people... in the end you are taking advantage of these people... but thats the way the world works and has always worked.. you have a few very rich people and everyone else is usually very poor. Thats the way most economys work just because those with money usually have the power and want alot of it. Buissness people are heartless, you cant have emotion as a buissness person, for a buissness person's job is to make the most money possible and your not going to give away your "hard earned" money to just anyone for any reason.
So anyways back to the topic, this could actually be quite postive for an American economy. If we become the leaders in stem cell research we have created an industry which is what this country is lacking. We dont produce anything... and if we do we produce inferior products and sell them at the same price as the better ones. This bill that is being passed is crap most of the jobs being created are construction jobs... so the gov is hiering constr. comp. to fix/build roads and what not... who do you think is getting the jobs, ill tell you its once again the tired, the poor, the huddled masses and usually these are illegals that the boss says hey you want some money.. ok do this all day and youll get 50 bucks... and they will do a good job so they can get another 50 tomorrow. With an industry like stem cell research and other inovative technologies we can lead the world to a new age... but rebuilding what we have is just like hmmm i only have 500 bucks and i have two options... i can invest it and make it grow, or i can paint my house.
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
And, believe it or not, there are people with brains in businesses (a heartless person has no brains, they're as stupid and miserable as everyone else, contrary to popular belief). Don't categorize, that's a secure way to failure.
If stem cell is launched, I doubt it will stay American for a very long time. Considering the low quality of American produce, I'd rather give it to Germans...
I never said business people are stupid, they are some of the smartest people... But usually making the most money means someone else is losing out... and there is such thing as legaly stealing... such as a company that lets say builds an oil well... the owners are investors, the project is run by a board... the board then starts using the well to produce oil... and the investors are getting a return on their investment, and they decide to create more oil wells... then a few years go by and the board starts selling all the equipment... so what happened was that investors gave this board money, they took it bought all this oil well equipment, and then sold it and put the money in some secret bank acount... its alot more complicated in court though usually it is about how the oil well doesnet fuction properly and its just not going to work... but wheres the money... no one knows... this is a true story btw
And i must agree with you that possibly another country will become the leaders of this project, using americans money lol.
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
First of all....Stem Cell research was never "banned" in the US.
The US Government since 2001 has given $100m to embryonic stem cell research (for embryos already slated for harvest up to that point) and $250m for adult stem cell research.
The "ban" in this bill was only restricted to FEDERAL FUNDS for research.
The research done on embryonic stem cells has been less than promising, in numbers of cases, researchers have found that embryonic stem cell therapy has had tumorous results. Yes, you read that right....embryonic stem cell therapy has consistently produced tumorous growths.
A number of countries (Spain in particular) has mostly abandoned embryonic stem cell therapy research in humans and is focusing on adult stem cell research in humans as it doesn't have the high tumor rate found in embryonic stem cell therapy.
If you have seen a few of the articles where researchers are able to regenerate an organ for someone, like the lady (in France iirc) where they regrew her an esophagus, you need to realize these were done with ADULT STEM CELLS from the SAME PATIENT.
Furthermore, researches can now harvest embryonic stem cells from amniotic fluid, baby teeth and now it seems.....even from a single human hair.
So, if all of this is true....if embryonic stem cell therapy has been a failure....and adult stem cell therapy has produced nearly all of the positive results....why are we still arguing?
Be assured, adult stem cell research still goes on to this day in the US.
The battle that is being waged over the stem cells isn't really about stem cells.
The far left needs embryos to remain non-life, a non-entity to keep it's arguments for abortion viable. So if an embryo is nothing and can be destroyed for human gain, then an embryo in a woman can be destroyed for her gain.
The far right is desperately looking to make embryos life so they can combat the abortion debate, because one of the mandates of the US constitution is to preserve life.
So why, if researchers can do their research, and the adult stem cell therapy trials look so promising, and we can now get embryonic stem cells without destroying an embryo, are we still arguing this point!!??
Certain researchers are actually fanning this argument, enlisting the far left to help them to their ends, and they have won it seems, because after all of this, there is one thing you CANNOT DO with adult stem cells that you CAN DO with embryonic stem cells.
Clone another embryo.
All of this fighting after all of this time isn't really about getting a "ban" overturned that never really was a "ban" to begin with, it is about getting the non-cloning clause removed.
Only time will tell if they succeed that far, but they have already won a first step victory.
I haven't had time to look through Obama's resolution to discern what all it entails, hell, they might have already won.
Comment of 2009 so far. Lol.
I agree completely with you and Goodguy. Can't wait where this leads us.
Yeah, because Germany has such a nice track record with any sort of power.
CyberPunk RP Nexus
Here is a website you may wish to consider showing pro/cons of both types of therapy........and the successes of stem cell therapy.
http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/ If the site looks one sided.....it is......but the truth in the evidence speaks for itself. How many people in this thread would actually believe that there are 72 treatments or cures out today using stem cells.
Yet, the average person on the street (or even the OP here) seem totally oblivious to what is actually happening in our world today.
"Eh, what? I thought Bush banned stem cells." <------this is not an uncommon response
Or even better.....are the people on here that are actually expressing adulation over what they do not understand, and worse yet....will undoubtedly give credit to any further stem cell research break throughs to Obama, when all he did was come in at the tail end of it. Now THATS a politician.
The extent of the peoples ignorance greatly depresses me.
Only when you constantly seek the truth are you your own person, once you stop seeking the truth do you belong to them.