well it should be stated that these cells have no human qualities yet. which makes that argument the most pathetic because its operating under false premises.
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
This guy from my town is going to be my hero if he ends up walking again. (right now he is paralyzed from waist down)
A lot of people think it's going to be BAM injected, two weeks later you are walking.....No..... it takes years of physical recovery.... I think these ten people will bring new breakthroughs to the field of stem cell research, and knowledge of ourselves, our anatomy, and the possibilities in our universe alike. With great knowledge and power, also, unfortunately comes the abuse of it.
That being said, I still do not know where I stand on the position of "do I think this is a wise path to travel ?" for the good of our species in general...right now... I am leading towards (no it is in fact not right) and we should abandon our efforts immediately. But I will elaborate on that more, when I have a better understanding of the consequences stem cell research poses, consequences such as: immortality for one... overpopulation ... playing god.
All I know is, if I became paralyzed, came down is Alzheimer, Parkinson's, or one of those diseases, then I'd sure as hell want stem cell research to help me.
That being said, I still do not know where I stand on the position of "do I think this is a wise path to travel ?" for the good of our species in general...right now... I am leading towards (no it is in fact not right) and we should abandon our efforts immediately. But I will elaborate on that more, when I have a better understanding of the consequences stem cell research poses, consequences such as: immortality for one... overpopulation ... playing god.
Yeah, those are all issues we're gonna get down to along the road. It'll probably be a few years though. I definately think we should pursue it however, there's a lot of potential in stem cell research.
On the bright side however, it seems stem cells will not always need human embryos to be produced. There's been some testing on creating stem cells rom human skin, essentially reprogramming a cell into retract into a stem cell once again. Now where did I read that...
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I wonder If the Lot of people actually realize the consequences of opening this (Pandora's) box?
Probably, not.
And Equinox, If you read the first page, I provided a link explaining the policy on stem cell research in the world. I think it only goes up to 2007 though, I kind of want to see the newly revised one (if it exists yet)
I wonder If the Lot of people actually realize the consequences of opening this (Pandora's) box?
Well I look at it this way:
One of the defining factors of humanity is our strive towards knowledge. Thus, someone is going to figure out how to use stemcells for all sorts of things eventually, with good intentions or bad. Best way to control that, and to use it for good things at the same time, is to udnerstand it. Thus research and develop it.
Secondly, there is so much that is possible in our Unvierse. It'd be a shame to waste it all.
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Im glad this is the case... as far as surprised, im not so surprised. Right now Obama has over an 80% approval rating... now would be the time to push some of those more controvercial issues
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
I dont really see how curing illnesses whatever it may be with stem cells is by any means playing less of a god than curing it by any other means... we can cure some forms of cancer now which years ago was impossible.. we can bring babies into this world that many years ago was also impossible (me being one of them) through cecarian. So by your term "playing god", which must be defined... i think it would be safe to say that whenever you change the natural course of life your are "playing god". Yet if God truly is all powerful he would not give us the insight in the first place or even allow this whole science to even exist...
If you are a beliver in God... Gods will IS. Its not really questionable... Because for someone who is all knowing and creator at the same time could not possibly create something without knowing its capabilities. In fact if you are all knowing you knowingly give the power to the creation to do your will... See which brings me to this point... all God creates is good.. so if he created humans knowingly giving us the insight to perform stem cell research... which is wholely out of curiosity.. (has that not been the case throughout humanity all the way back to adam and eve???) how could it be considered bad???
Infact i couldent have put it more perfectly than Al Pachino in "The Devil's Advocate" when he says god is a hypocryte that says "look but dont touch, touch but dont taste, taste but dont swallow" So in one hand God knowingly and willingly gives us the knowlege to to bring about medical wonders such as stem cell research... yet in the other hand he just wants us to be dumb, blind and happy with this knowledge?? I really dont understand that... And to confuse me even more in the gosples Jesus raises the dead, gives sight to the blind, makes the dumb speak and the deaf hear... and yet says "this and much more will you do" so really the pandora's box is not really in stem cell research... its in what bill mahr once put it... that jewish book of fairy tales.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
One of the defining factors of humanity is our strive towards knowledge. Thus, someone is going to figure out how to use stemcells for all sorts of things eventually, with good intentions or bad. Best way to control that, and to use it for good things at the same time, is to udnerstand it. Thus research and develop it.
I agree completely, the acquiring of this knowledge is inevitable, but there are always going to be people (powerful people) out there who use this knowledge for bad, because sadly, with great knowledge and power, also comes the abuse of it"
I know it would be impossible to regulate anything, and I fear (right now anyway) that these negative effects of this knowledge far outweigh the positive ones.
I kind of hope that all ten people, die, shorty after they are injected, I know it may seem cruel, (and it in fact is) but I think/hope FEAR will end up keeping this tomb of knowledge sealed.
After all, there are things in our universe that should not be trifled with and right now, I think Stem cell research is one of them. I may still change my opinion on that too, ironically enough, that depends on the nature of the results of these clinical tests....
I agree completely, the acquiring of this knowledge is inevitable, but there are always going to be people (powerful people) out there who use this knowledge for bad, because sadly, with great knowledge and power, also comes the abuse of it"
Well if acquiring it is inevitable, and we can acquire it now, why should we wait?
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I see no reason, nor point, to wait. Everything, everywhere, in any situation, will be abused, until we change society, and so far I do not see that happening. So if stem cells cure diseases, do it.
And, as always, dub lucifer, you have nothing to back your opinion with.
You remind me of religious fanatics. They keep saying something is impossible or that something should not be done but can't explain why.
Playing god? I see no such thing here. The purpose of humanity is progress and creation. Medicine is part of our progress. If anything, we are fulfilling our destiny, or we wouldn't be here.
I still do not think you realize the consequences behind this (Pandora's box) that we are attempting to open.
It may in fact be the destruction of our species in the long run... or it very well may be the knowledge that saves us from destroying ourselves. Right now it is impossible to say for sure which, but my speculation right now tells me it will be the first one... which is why I think we should wait until an appropriate time to pursue this research.
I still do not think you realize the consequences behind this (Pandora's box) that we are attempting to open.
Stop calling something you know little about a Pandora's Box.
Quote from name="dub Lucifer" »
It may in fact be the destruction of our species in the long run...
Then that is our fate. In any case, if it will destroy us, it WILL happen, so, instead of being afraid that it will destroy us, we need to "open" it in case it won't to save human lives.
Quote from name="dub Lucifer" »
but my speculation right now tells me it will be the first one...
Your speculation? What speculation. I see no speculation. I see "I think", and that's a faulty way to make conclusions.
Interesting Equinox, While my opinion and views tend to change as I understand these things better, can you say the same?? I think saying that anyone understands these things on a level that is required to fully comprehend these "consequences" is very naive. So at this point, it is all speculation.... I just always like to think "what if" respectably, both negatively and positively....
At this point all we can do is speculate, because we in fact do not have the evidence required to do anything but that at this point, I think that attempting to say we do,(when obviously we don't) is in fact wrong, and a poor judgment call , by anyone.
I can/will always admit that I may in fact be wrong, and WILL change my viewpoint if sufficient evidence exists/arises to make me do so... can you say the same? I hope so....^_^
Seriously, research of stem cell or whatever the hell won't be our destruction, believe me.
Ignorance, senseless hate, war, religious fanatics, politics, extreme nationalism, etc,... that will be human's self destruction. That or simply environment screwed over by human doing.
But it could be another tool to add to that list.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
And it also won't be "the thing that will prevent us from destroying ourselves" either. No "thing" will prevent us from destroying ourselves. Also, who will tell the world when it is an appropriate time to research something? And why wouldn't it be an appropriate time to research anything? The fear that the result and knowledge of the research could be used to create tools capable of self destructing the world? Haven't we already been there and done that?
Exacly. Even if a lot of people agree we shouldn't research it and develop it, there are six billion people in over hundreds of different nations. Someone will research this, and the best way to control something and prevent it from being misused is to understand it, which will require researching it.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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Yeah, that was a really great way of thinking of it. Plus, wouldn't it be awesome for the US to be recognized for having the scientist(s) who discovered the cure to some major disease or some such? I mean, since most of the world seems to hate us, I'm sure that would help boost our own morale and global standing.
And at Doppelganger: Isn't it hilarious that normal people like us on an online forum board can rationalize things logically like that, but, for some reason, government can't? Oh well, maybe it'll be better this time around, lol :rolleyes:
well it should be stated that these cells have no human qualities yet. which makes that argument the most pathetic because its operating under false premises.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
A lot of people think it's going to be BAM injected, two weeks later you are walking.....No..... it takes years of physical recovery.... I think these ten people will bring new breakthroughs to the field of stem cell research, and knowledge of ourselves, our anatomy, and the possibilities in our universe alike.
With great knowledge and power, also, unfortunately comes the abuse of it.
That being said, I still do not know where I stand on the position of "do I think this is a wise path to travel ?" for the good of our species in general...right now... I am leading towards (no it is in fact not right) and we should abandon our efforts immediately. But I will elaborate on that more, when I have a better understanding of the consequences stem cell research poses, consequences such as: immortality for one... overpopulation ... playing god.
CyberPunk RP Nexus
On the bright side however, it seems stem cells will not always need human embryos to be produced. There's been some testing on creating stem cells rom human skin, essentially reprogramming a cell into retract into a stem cell once again. Now where did I read that...
I support stem cells entirely.
I wonder If the Lot of people actually realize the consequences of opening this (Pandora's) box?
Probably, not.
And Equinox, If you read the first page, I provided a link explaining the policy on stem cell research in the world. I think it only goes up to 2007 though, I kind of want to see the newly revised one (if it exists yet)
One of the defining factors of humanity is our strive towards knowledge. Thus, someone is going to figure out how to use stemcells for all sorts of things eventually, with good intentions or bad. Best way to control that, and to use it for good things at the same time, is to udnerstand it. Thus research and develop it.
Secondly, there is so much that is possible in our Unvierse. It'd be a shame to waste it all.
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
I dont really see how curing illnesses whatever it may be with stem cells is by any means playing less of a god than curing it by any other means... we can cure some forms of cancer now which years ago was impossible.. we can bring babies into this world that many years ago was also impossible (me being one of them) through cecarian. So by your term "playing god", which must be defined... i think it would be safe to say that whenever you change the natural course of life your are "playing god". Yet if God truly is all powerful he would not give us the insight in the first place or even allow this whole science to even exist...
If you are a beliver in God... Gods will IS. Its not really questionable... Because for someone who is all knowing and creator at the same time could not possibly create something without knowing its capabilities. In fact if you are all knowing you knowingly give the power to the creation to do your will... See which brings me to this point... all God creates is good.. so if he created humans knowingly giving us the insight to perform stem cell research... which is wholely out of curiosity.. (has that not been the case throughout humanity all the way back to adam and eve???) how could it be considered bad???
Infact i couldent have put it more perfectly than Al Pachino in "The Devil's Advocate" when he says god is a hypocryte that says "look but dont touch, touch but dont taste, taste but dont swallow" So in one hand God knowingly and willingly gives us the knowlege to to bring about medical wonders such as stem cell research... yet in the other hand he just wants us to be dumb, blind and happy with this knowledge?? I really dont understand that... And to confuse me even more in the gosples Jesus raises the dead, gives sight to the blind, makes the dumb speak and the deaf hear... and yet says "this and much more will you do" so really the pandora's box is not really in stem cell research... its in what bill mahr once put it... that jewish book of fairy tales.
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
I agree completely, the acquiring of this knowledge is inevitable, but there are always going to be people (powerful people) out there who use this knowledge for bad, because sadly, with great knowledge and power, also comes the abuse of it"
I know it would be impossible to regulate anything, and I fear (right now anyway) that these negative effects of this knowledge far outweigh the positive ones.
I kind of hope that all ten people, die, shorty after they are injected, I know it may seem cruel, (and it in fact is) but I think/hope FEAR will end up keeping this tomb of knowledge sealed.
After all, there are things in our universe that should not be trifled with and right now, I think Stem cell research is one of them. I may still change my opinion on that too, ironically enough, that depends on the nature of the results of these clinical tests....
In the future though, there may very well be.
Sometimes it is better to wait, until you are ready/able to deal with the consequences of having such knowledge. I feel this is one of those cases.
And, as always, dub lucifer, you have nothing to back your opinion with.
You remind me of religious fanatics. They keep saying something is impossible or that something should not be done but can't explain why.
Playing god? I see no such thing here. The purpose of humanity is progress and creation. Medicine is part of our progress. If anything, we are fulfilling our destiny, or we wouldn't be here.
It may in fact be the destruction of our species in the long run... or it very well may be the knowledge that saves us from destroying ourselves. Right now it is impossible to say for sure which, but my speculation right now tells me it will be the first one... which is why I think we should wait until an appropriate time to pursue this research.
Then that is our fate. In any case, if it will destroy us, it WILL happen, so, instead of being afraid that it will destroy us, we need to "open" it in case it won't to save human lives.
Your speculation? What speculation. I see no speculation. I see "I think", and that's a faulty way to make conclusions.
At this point all we can do is speculate, because we in fact do not have the evidence required to do anything but that at this point, I think that attempting to say we do,(when obviously we don't) is in fact wrong, and a poor judgment call , by anyone.
I can/will always admit that I may in fact be wrong, and WILL change my viewpoint if sufficient evidence exists/arises to make me do so... can you say the same? I hope so....^_^
Exacly. Even if a lot of people agree we shouldn't research it and develop it, there are six billion people in over hundreds of different nations. Someone will research this, and the best way to control something and prevent it from being misused is to understand it, which will require researching it.
And at Doppelganger: Isn't it hilarious that normal people like us on an online forum board can rationalize things logically like that, but, for some reason, government can't? Oh well, maybe it'll be better this time around, lol :rolleyes: