Q: Did the attitude kind of change then since Blizzcon? Because when I played at Blizzcon, it seemed like it was definitely some PvP arena-style focus…
A: Well, we definitely want a PvP mode, we want people to be able to play against and kill one another and that’s a big part of the game, it’s just how e-sport-oriented we want it to be. When people ask me “how balanced is this going to be? Is it going to be balanced for…is it going to be SC-level balanced and perfect?” No, it’s going to be horrifically imbalanced, and that’s part of the fun, to find crazy builds that are all over the place. So we have changed the arena mode a bit to feel more casual than the mode that was at Blizzcon, which was very last man standing, high-pressure, because if you died, you were done for that round. Now, granted, the rounds were fast, but still…we’ve actually switched to more of a team deathmatch. Still same arena environment, still kind of feels the same, but when you die, you stay out for a few seconds and then you come back. It bases more on time limit and kill count, which we actually found was a lot more approachable and a lot more fun.
I understand that Blizzard does not intend this game to be an e-sport and that the balancing of the game is focused around PVE, but seriously who thinks that going from an arena based last man standing to team deathmatch is a better idea?
From my perspective they really have killed pvp. No world pvp, no duels, and the arena they give us will encourage us to spawn camp in order to win? I guess if I want to test my build against other players in a "casual environment" then job well done. But coming from someone who was excited about pvp, however imbalanced it will be, I'm disappointed and just hope they have someone good in store for end game because it wont be pvp.
Q: Did the attitude kind of change then since Blizzcon? Because when I played at Blizzcon, it seemed like it was definitely some PvP arena-style focus…
A: Well, we definitely want a PvP mode, we want people to be able to play against and kill one another and that’s a big part of the game, it’s just how e-sport-oriented we want it to be. When people ask me “how balanced is this going to be? Is it going to be balanced for…is it going to be SC-level balanced and perfect?” No, it’s going to be horrifically imbalanced, and that’s part of the fun, to find crazy builds that are all over the place. So we have changed the arena mode a bit to feel more casual than the mode that was at Blizzcon, which was very last man standing, high-pressure, because if you died, you were done for that round. Now, granted, the rounds were fast, but still…we’ve actually switched to more of a team deathmatch. Still same arena environment, still kind of feels the same, but when you die, you stay out for a few seconds and then you come back. It bases more on time limit and kill count, which we actually found was a lot more approachable and a lot more fun.
I understand that Blizzard does not intend this game to be an e-sport and that the balancing of the game is focused around PVE, but seriously who thinks that going from an arena based last man standing to team deathmatch is a better idea?
From my perspective they really have killed pvp. No world pvp, no duels, and the arena they give us will encourage us to spawn camp in order to win? I guess if I want to test my build against other players in a "casual environment" then job well done. But coming from someone who was excited about pvp, however imbalanced it will be, I'm disappointed and just hope they have someone good in store for end game because it wont be pvp.
Thoughts? Flames?
I was okay with no world pvp (as I prefer a more formal pvp (4v4GM if you are familiar with d2))
Duels would be nice, but given the circumstances (skill changes(difference in pvp/pve, environment differences), I could see why they aren't implementing duels.
As more and more people get 5 level 60s, hopefully we will see a greater shift towards PvP. I am sure there are a few devs willing to devote some time into PvP.
I am not liking the team deathmatch idea, and I don't think it will work. It works in say FPS games because realistically nobody has a significant chance to kill one another because the game is 100% based on skill.
I don't think this same idea works in MMOs or RPGs because these usually take a bit more strategy and thinking.
I like it as an alternative to arena pvp. I thj k there should be an semi competitive element to the pv and that's what there changes lack. There's no point. Need ladders and tiles Nd that will make it engaging and fun. On the otherhand not everyone is into that and I understand that. This system should be included to so that you can play a more relaxed style of pvp also. Kind of like competition and non competition and let there systems and win loss/ladder systems be completely seperate.
I can't believe we even have to complain about this it angers me that they have such a shithouse view of pvp. This we be what makes or breaks the game for men and I hate to say It but under the current system I can't see myself enjoying the game. For more than a month or 2.
I'm sure they will find ways to include several game types. Who said that the game had to be one way and one way only? For all we know, they will be including game types we have yet to even hear of, so its too far fetched to assume the game will forever work in one single way.
As for ass camping someone, I'm sure there is a room you will spawn in that others cannot walk into, such as a team room. This team room wouldn't be abused because you wouldn't be able to cast or re-equip inside or stay in for very long before it forced you out. It's either that or after the game starts, its random as to your spawn location.
I'm sure they will find ways to include several game types. Who said that the game had to be one way and one way only? For all we know, they will be including game types we have yet to even hear of, so its too far fetched to assume the game will forever work in one single way.
I don't know, but looking at how Blizzard looks at PvP, I don't expect it. It would be quite easy, but they won't bother. Heck, you could also have other interesting stuff like Capture the Flag or other unique gametypes. But who cares about PvP, right?
I think Team Deathmatch works better for pvp in a game like Diablo where your basically playing a Instagib FPS map.
Who here really thinks diablo pvp is some skill driven monster? Its gear driven, and its fun cause its fast.
I personally would hate to load up into an arena match to be 1 shot in 2 seconds and have to sit out while some other guy runs away for 20 seconds before he gets 1 shot. I think tdm is a much better mode since kills will rack up extremely fast.
I do however hate the fact they removed the ladders and your win/loss ratio and basically any competitiveness from it. I dont care that its imbalanced, it comes with the territory. I do want some recognition and something to shoot for besides just random pug kill spamming. Hopefully they implement some sort of ladder or stats screen or something to give us some progression and goals.
Well I mean TDM is basically the same as Diablo 2's random battles outside of town. You die, you get your body, you jump back in. The only thing keeping you from getting back into the fight fast was how long it took to get your body.
Bad decision, but after this week, I'm not surprised at all.
I'm not even expecting then to add different pvp modes, back in the days i would say ''well, i don't agree with that, but surely blizz will add different modes and such'', but anything is possible now.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
SFJake : you do need to remember that diablo was always PVE game, not a pvp one. Even diablo 2 was ALL about pve, with the option to be attackable. Its the players who made d2 dueling so popular, Blizzard never encouraged it or never balanced it and it seem everyone enjoyed their time no? Even diablo 1 with all the pk there was pvp where blizzard didnt really think of or balanced it.
I dont fear D3 pvp for that reason, they put an arena where i can bash on people, not making overrated duel with fake social conditions to it just outside the rogue camp, getting insulted by 9 years old who lost. I think it will be enjoyable and well perhaps even make friends since its group pvp ... or youll be stuck with a retard versus a premade where you get pwned badly. But anyway, this time blizzard took some time to make it, to please us, even giving vanity reward for it. It is a huge step up from D2. Perhaps some wont agree but at this moment, D3 look phenomenal. Some changes to runes/skills that i thought was bad, when i understood their changes and why was brilliant. Just give it time , lets get more information on it.
I think in one of the answer to pvp on diablofans, Jay said that PERHAPS! there will be a special zone where you enter it and turn pvp, where you can duel. It is not implemented but perhaps, wait and see.
@everyone mostly : Most of you are displeased about the pvp and they say they dont care about it blabla... Of course they dont!! they told it , they wrote it, they said it in public at blizzcon, its everywhere. Its a pve game, pvp is like a small added bonus, like a bonus game when you wait for load time. People on different diablo board are all mad/qq/cry about it. They say it everytime someone bring pvp. Dont be mad that they dont add different stuff for pvp, its not the purpose of the game, they said it at the start and they keep saying it, its not a pvp game. Its like wishing for pvp in mario galaxy 2, it wont happen. Here it does happen, they gave some attention too it but so many people want it turned into a e-sport, the game is not about it. Dont come crying if the barbarian is overpowered, they dont care and its fine like that because they said it. Its not like aion where the ranger was OP and nobody did a single thing about it when its supposed to be balanced or even warhammer online. Here they dont care and its ok because we are supposed to get it, they - dont - care. Not in a bad way, i really dont mind but dont get all worked out when you KNEW FROM the start that there wouldnt be great pvp in it
Also I do with they left world pvp in. I personally enjoyed Pking, especially in hardcore. I even got a rush out of getting pk'd in hardcore. Or even in softcore. It didnt bother me and was a welcome change to a mundane lvling run.
The first guy I pk'd in hardcore was my very first adrenaline rush i ever got in a game. I only got that feeling playing online poker since. I pk'd some lvl 8 sorceress with my lvl 14 bowazon. Running him down after giving him the waypoint was a thrill. Sorry if i seem like a douche it just was.
I also remember a light hearted guy me and a buddy killed. His name was "NumbaOne". We ganked him and he came back into the game as a lvl 1 with the name, "StillNumbaOne"
But I personally dont think arena style works with Instagib diablo pvp. Tdm will though.
Also I do with they left world pvp in. I personally enjoyed Pking, especially in hardcore. I even got a rush out of getting pk'd in hardcore. Or even in softcore. It didnt bother me and was a welcome change to a mundane lvling run.
The first guy I pk'd in hardcore was my very first adrenaline rush i ever got in a game. I only got that feeling playing online poker since. I pk'd some lvl 8 sorceress with my lvl 14 bowazon. Running him down after giving him the waypoint was a thrill. Sorry if i seem like a douche it just was.
I also remember a light hearted guy me and a buddy killed. His name was "NumbaOne". We ganked him and he came back into the game as a lvl 1 with the name, "StillNumbaOne"
But I personally dont think arena style works with Instagib diablo pvp. Tdm will though.
People tend to get a rush when they completely screw someone of what they worked for. I have a friend that ask "can you kill someone and take their stuff", every time we ask him to try a game. If the game doesn't have it, he won't play it.
But anyway, I believe they will have different game modes to try and keep things from getting repetitive.
Also I do with they left world pvp in. I personally enjoyed Pking, especially in hardcore. I even got a rush out of getting pk'd in hardcore. Or even in softcore. It didnt bother me and was a welcome change to a mundane lvling run.
The first guy I pk'd in hardcore was my very first adrenaline rush i ever got in a game. I only got that feeling playing online poker since. I pk'd some lvl 8 sorceress with my lvl 14 bowazon. Running him down after giving him the waypoint was a thrill. Sorry if i seem like a douche it just was.
I also remember a light hearted guy me and a buddy killed. His name was "NumbaOne". We ganked him and he came back into the game as a lvl 1 with the name, "StillNumbaOne"
But I personally dont think arena style works with Instagib diablo pvp. Tdm will though.
but what you enjoyed perhaps the other one didnt. Its what people call griefing i guess. Its the kind of pvp that blizzard dont want and i can understand. Often its only one sided fun, where in arena, you chose to be there, not being tricked in clicking the swords. Its like many mmo where you go there, find someone tagged and attack him, often they dont even defend themself. They werent prepared? they were afk? They dislike pvp? there is so many reasons. This is called griefing because its one sided fun, you and youre epeen.
I sound in this post like a pve-carebear but i do love pvp alot but i hate when it turn into bullshit. I love having competition, win or lose i dont care, i want to have a nice fight and an adrenaline rush. I dont want pointless spawn camping, i dont want to fight noob that dont know what they do or people that didnt even want to pvp and let themself die, this is children pvp. I want real action, where i need to work, min/max , find strategy, this is pvp. D2 pvp i tought was the most sucky of em all (gonna get flammed) There was non-written rules but hey, lot of people didnt care. Sometime it was a potion fest, running around all the frickin plain, playing hide and seek for youre target because they are drinking potion to survive, town portal, insults etc. What is the fun? i did find some people who were really interesting to fight but was mostly boring and lacking in fun.
that is why im at least please of the effort shown in D3, there will be a ground with other people THAT WANT TO PVP.
I wish it would go back to last man standing. Jay Wilson's outlook on the PvP scene is very disappointing. It's a very viable option to with in Diablo 3 in terms of endgame, and I think disregarding it almost completely like he is currently is the wrong way to go. It would be acceptable even if he gave the arena something for people to strive for besides achievement points, like a simple ladder ranking system, or Titles based on how many games you've won. He misses the point that a game can be competitive but still avoid being an E-Sport.
he said in an interview (dont remember the exact word) that for NOW they are concentrating polishing and finishing up the game, the PVE portion. PVP is a side game. So they disregard it for now, but perhaps later they will add more stuff, the game is not even out yet, not even in open beta and alot of players who never did play the game (including me) are on the forum defending/flamming/whinning/cheering for aspect of the game, some of it not even finished and saying "blizzard this..." "blizzard that.." "oh they lost my trust with that change!" and everything like that.
Just wait and see, i think the game will be kick ass
Jay Wilson's outlook on the PvP scene is very disappointing.
Not sure if we're saying the same thing here, but after reading Jay Wilson's comments, it's like he is disappointed with the PvP development. He may be the lead designer, but he still has to work with the design team's opinions too. I'm glad he tends to be a supporter of more cutthroat and hardcore play because someone needs to be rooting for those crazy guys.
Personally, I'm sad the pressure has been diminished since it's no longer "last man standing". Making a comeback when you're outnumbered makes for a very satisfying win. But at the same time, learning your opponents strategy and being able to adapt to that and become successful over the course of a match is also great. I think fluidity of the "Team Deathmatch" style will facilitate that more than a reset every round.
People tend to get a rush when they completely screw someone of what they worked for. I have a friend that ask "can you kill someone and take their stuff", every time we ask him to try a game. If the game doesn't have it, he won't play it.
But anyway, I believe they will have different game modes to try and keep things from getting repetitive.
Actually it was more the rush of all or nothing. There were many times where you just died to another pker. It was in effect, an all-in gamble. There were times you killed someone who didnt want killed, but eh it happens. I got pk'd and was like, I wanna try that. I guess others would be pissed.
I do hope they at least have a duel section so you can duel someone in the normal game without having to do a tdm.
My last complaint would be that they at least explore and develop further pvp options, regardless of if its balanced or not, or will be an e-sport or not. Why not diversify the pvp landscape, it would provide for a more entertaining end game for sure.
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A: Well, we definitely want a PvP mode, we want people to be able to play against and kill one another and that’s a big part of the game, it’s just how e-sport-oriented we want it to be. When people ask me “how balanced is this going to be? Is it going to be balanced for…is it going to be SC-level balanced and perfect?” No, it’s going to be horrifically imbalanced, and that’s part of the fun, to find crazy builds that are all over the place. So we have changed the arena mode a bit to feel more casual than the mode that was at Blizzcon, which was very last man standing, high-pressure, because if you died, you were done for that round. Now, granted, the rounds were fast, but still…we’ve actually switched to more of a team deathmatch. Still same arena environment, still kind of feels the same, but when you die, you stay out for a few seconds and then you come back. It bases more on time limit and kill count, which we actually found was a lot more approachable and a lot more fun.
I understand that Blizzard does not intend this game to be an e-sport and that the balancing of the game is focused around PVE, but seriously who thinks that going from an arena based last man standing to team deathmatch is a better idea?
From my perspective they really have killed pvp. No world pvp, no duels, and the arena they give us will encourage us to spawn camp in order to win? I guess if I want to test my build against other players in a "casual environment" then job well done. But coming from someone who was excited about pvp, however imbalanced it will be, I'm disappointed and just hope they have someone good in store for end game because it wont be pvp.
Thoughts? Flames?
I was okay with no world pvp (as I prefer a more formal pvp (4v4GM if you are familiar with d2))
Duels would be nice, but given the circumstances (skill changes(difference in pvp/pve, environment differences), I could see why they aren't implementing duels.
As more and more people get 5 level 60s, hopefully we will see a greater shift towards PvP. I am sure there are a few devs willing to devote some time into PvP.
I am not liking the team deathmatch idea, and I don't think it will work. It works in say FPS games because realistically nobody has a significant chance to kill one another because the game is 100% based on skill.
I don't think this same idea works in MMOs or RPGs because these usually take a bit more strategy and thinking.
I can't believe we even have to complain about this it angers me that they have such a shithouse view of pvp. This we be what makes or breaks the game for men and I hate to say It but under the current system I can't see myself enjoying the game. For more than a month or 2.
Thanks Caniroth for the awesome sig!
As for ass camping someone, I'm sure there is a room you will spawn in that others cannot walk into, such as a team room. This team room wouldn't be abused because you wouldn't be able to cast or re-equip inside or stay in for very long before it forced you out. It's either that or after the game starts, its random as to your spawn location.
Who here really thinks diablo pvp is some skill driven monster? Its gear driven, and its fun cause its fast.
I personally would hate to load up into an arena match to be 1 shot in 2 seconds and have to sit out while some other guy runs away for 20 seconds before he gets 1 shot. I think tdm is a much better mode since kills will rack up extremely fast.
I do however hate the fact they removed the ladders and your win/loss ratio and basically any competitiveness from it. I dont care that its imbalanced, it comes with the territory. I do want some recognition and something to shoot for besides just random pug kill spamming. Hopefully they implement some sort of ladder or stats screen or something to give us some progression and goals.
I'm not even expecting then to add different pvp modes, back in the days i would say ''well, i don't agree with that, but surely blizz will add different modes and such'', but anything is possible now.
I dont fear D3 pvp for that reason, they put an arena where i can bash on people, not making overrated duel with fake social conditions to it just outside the rogue camp, getting insulted by 9 years old who lost. I think it will be enjoyable and well perhaps even make friends since its group pvp ... or youll be stuck with a retard versus a premade where you get pwned badly. But anyway, this time blizzard took some time to make it, to please us, even giving vanity reward for it. It is a huge step up from D2. Perhaps some wont agree but at this moment, D3 look phenomenal. Some changes to runes/skills that i thought was bad, when i understood their changes and why was brilliant. Just give it time , lets get more information on it.
I think in one of the answer to pvp on diablofans, Jay said that PERHAPS! there will be a special zone where you enter it and turn pvp, where you can duel. It is not implemented but perhaps, wait and see.
@everyone mostly : Most of you are displeased about the pvp and they say they dont care about it blabla... Of course they dont!! they told it , they wrote it, they said it in public at blizzcon, its everywhere. Its a pve game, pvp is like a small added bonus, like a bonus game when you wait for load time. People on different diablo board are all mad/qq/cry about it. They say it everytime someone bring pvp. Dont be mad that they dont add different stuff for pvp, its not the purpose of the game, they said it at the start and they keep saying it, its not a pvp game. Its like wishing for pvp in mario galaxy 2, it wont happen. Here it does happen, they gave some attention too it but so many people want it turned into a e-sport, the game is not about it. Dont come crying if the barbarian is overpowered, they dont care and its fine like that because they said it. Its not like aion where the ranger was OP and nobody did a single thing about it when its supposed to be balanced or even warhammer online. Here they dont care and its ok because we are supposed to get it, they - dont - care. Not in a bad way, i really dont mind but dont get all worked out when you KNEW FROM the start that there wouldnt be great pvp in it
The first guy I pk'd in hardcore was my very first adrenaline rush i ever got in a game. I only got that feeling playing online poker since. I pk'd some lvl 8 sorceress with my lvl 14 bowazon. Running him down after giving him the waypoint was a thrill. Sorry if i seem like a douche it just was.
I also remember a light hearted guy me and a buddy killed. His name was "NumbaOne". We ganked him and he came back into the game as a lvl 1 with the name, "StillNumbaOne"
But I personally dont think arena style works with Instagib diablo pvp. Tdm will though.
People tend to get a rush when they completely screw someone of what they worked for. I have a friend that ask "can you kill someone and take their stuff", every time we ask him to try a game. If the game doesn't have it, he won't play it.
But anyway, I believe they will have different game modes to try and keep things from getting repetitive.
but what you enjoyed perhaps the other one didnt. Its what people call griefing i guess. Its the kind of pvp that blizzard dont want and i can understand. Often its only one sided fun, where in arena, you chose to be there, not being tricked in clicking the swords. Its like many mmo where you go there, find someone tagged and attack him, often they dont even defend themself. They werent prepared? they were afk? They dislike pvp? there is so many reasons. This is called griefing because its one sided fun, you and youre epeen.
I sound in this post like a pve-carebear but i do love pvp alot but i hate when it turn into bullshit. I love having competition, win or lose i dont care, i want to have a nice fight and an adrenaline rush. I dont want pointless spawn camping, i dont want to fight noob that dont know what they do or people that didnt even want to pvp and let themself die, this is children pvp. I want real action, where i need to work, min/max , find strategy, this is pvp. D2 pvp i tought was the most sucky of em all (gonna get flammed) There was non-written rules but hey, lot of people didnt care. Sometime it was a potion fest, running around all the frickin plain, playing hide and seek for youre target because they are drinking potion to survive, town portal, insults etc. What is the fun? i did find some people who were really interesting to fight but was mostly boring and lacking in fun.
that is why im at least please of the effort shown in D3, there will be a ground with other people THAT WANT TO PVP.
Just wait and see, i think the game will be kick ass
Not sure if we're saying the same thing here, but after reading Jay Wilson's comments, it's like he is disappointed with the PvP development. He may be the lead designer, but he still has to work with the design team's opinions too. I'm glad he tends to be a supporter of more cutthroat and hardcore play because someone needs to be rooting for those crazy guys.
Personally, I'm sad the pressure has been diminished since it's no longer "last man standing". Making a comeback when you're outnumbered makes for a very satisfying win. But at the same time, learning your opponents strategy and being able to adapt to that and become successful over the course of a match is also great. I think fluidity of the "Team Deathmatch" style will facilitate that more than a reset every round.
Actually it was more the rush of all or nothing. There were many times where you just died to another pker. It was in effect, an all-in gamble. There were times you killed someone who didnt want killed, but eh it happens. I got pk'd and was like, I wanna try that. I guess others would be pissed.
I do hope they at least have a duel section so you can duel someone in the normal game without having to do a tdm.