Also, someone said something about the second life gambling issue. That ban only applied to games of chance (dice, bingo, casino games, etc) or real life sporting events. Prizes for contests of skill or intellect were NOT banned because they do not fall under the category of gambling. As long as spectators are not allowed to wager on PvP matches then I believe the same would apply for D3.
That being said, the definition of gambling may vary country to country in which case I could see why Blizzard would not include it.
Ok, so to avoid gambling how about instead different levels of pvp, say low, medium high or whatever. Depending on what you're playing, when you die in arena, your body drops a certain amount of gold that can be picked up
Jack in the box nailed it. Said it in a much nicer way then I could of too. Essentially you guys saying it is illegal gambling are saying all of Diablo is illegal.
As for esports...there is no betting in esports. There are the occasional money matches, which are completely legal by the way.
Well... for one, there may be issues with this system in general as we may not even have the ability to challenge another team directly via Arena PvP. That said, being able to specifically put a wager on one side or another may create a grey area in terms of gambling. There aren't many laws that really handle this kind of thing directly, so I'd say its a grey area at the very least.
As for the eSport issue, it is actually a valid issue. A couple of you have mentioned it would make this more 'competitive'. That statement alone screams eSport. Diablo 3 PvP isn't about being extremely competitive, its casual PvP where you kill other players for points in a team death match. They may alter this in the future, but everything we've been told about PvP says they are shooting for a casual PvP experience, not a competitive one.
This would be possible, but would require a gambling license. In fact, due to the fact that it would be essentially gambling across state lines (and even country lines), there could be a lot of legal issues they'd have to get past first.
The eSport issue is also valid. Betting on games without things being balanced will only create a ton of negative feedback from people that lose because class X is overpowered. Blizzard has stated that they do not wish to add features to the game that would point it towards eSports in an official way, purely because it'll create a sense of obligation for them to provide an eSport experience, which they are against doing.
They may just give some gold and some random loot to each person in a winning team. I think it should be good enough and give same incentive to do pvp as pve gives without any gambling involved. Also gambling would make the best fights be based on amount of money you can gather and some fights may start from one million which you could never afford and only rich ppl who buy gold on RAHM. Gambling is a serious business, better forget about it. Wanna see what they can do look WoW but subtract PVP specific items. Regarding character balance there won't be in one on one fights but there will be plenty of balance in three on three mixed character matches.
Actually, those that say there wouldn't be legal issues are wrong. Because of the RMAH, gold actually ends up with a real-world currency value. Second Life had a similar issue with gambling some odd years ago and eventually had to create a global restriction on any gambling due to this exact issue. If there was no RMAH there would be no issues in this regard, but because of it Blizzard would likely require gambling licenses to operate.
As for the eSport issue...it is a valid issue. Blizzard does not want to give any impression that they support eSport PvP in Diablo 3 from what they've stated. This kind of competitive wagering being built into the game would give such an impression. I don't think its a bad idea in itself, but understanding Blizzard's intentions...its not something that would be a good move.
Except that it doesn't give off the impression of an esport what so ever? How does it?
Also, can you even buy gold on the RMAH?
I'm not even gonna touch the 'eSport' issue.
But, VladDracul, once again your zeal for insulting people gets the best of your judgement. Since you can buy and sell gold in the RMAH, gold pretty much equals real money; any gold bets are equivalent to real money bets. So, yes, allowing wagers in the Arena would venture into gambling territory.
This would be true EXCEPT gold has no real value since there is an unlimited supply of it in the game. Sure you could spend real money to buy gold but you could also grind through the game to find gold. An unlimited resource has no real value.
When people buy gold in RMAH they are really buying time. Either they spend the time grinding or someone else does.
Like in live, go dig wholes on a street for $5 per/hour. It's unlimited supply of $$$ w8ing for you there.
They may just give some gold and some random loot to each person in a winning team. I think it should be good enough and give same incentive to do pvp as pve gives without any gambling involved. Also gambling would make the best fights be based on amount of money you can gather and some fights may start from one million which you could never afford and only rich ppl who buy gold on RAHM. Gambling is a serious business, better forget about it. Wanna see what they can do look WoW but subtract PVP specific items. Regarding character balance there won't be in one on one fights but there will be plenty of balance in three on three mixed character matches.
Creating any kind of buy-in mechanic for PvP would be a step towards eSports, breaking Blizzard's vow to not add features along the lines of eSports. As such, we won't likely see something like that.
As for PvP balance...I estimate it'll be so-so at best as Diablo 3 is a game designed around killing large waves of monsters, and doesn't focus much on single targets. I have a feeling that within a month or two of PvP being released, we'll see a class or two just dominate PvP due to some combination of abilities. Blizzard has already stated that they do not intend on balancing the game around PvP...so we aren't likely to see any PvP-based balance changes other then crowd control duration.
They may just give some gold and some random loot to each person in a winning team. I think it should be good enough and give same incentive to do pvp as pve gives without any gambling involved. Also gambling would make the best fights be based on amount of money you can gather and some fights may start from one million which you could never afford and only rich ppl who buy gold on RAHM. Gambling is a serious business, better forget about it. Wanna see what they can do look WoW but subtract PVP specific items. Regarding character balance there won't be in one on one fights but there will be plenty of balance in three on three mixed character matches.
Creating any kind of buy-in mechanic for PvP would be a step towards eSports, breaking Blizzard's vow to not add features along the lines of eSports. As such, we won't likely see something like that.
As for PvP balance...I estimate it'll be so-so at best as Diablo 3 is a game designed around killing large waves of monsters, and doesn't focus much on single targets. I have a feeling that within a month or two of PvP being released, we'll see a class or two just dominate PvP due to some combination of abilities. Blizzard has already stated that they do not intend on balancing the game around PvP...so we aren't likely to see any PvP-based balance changes other then crowd control duration.
Well, they still want they player base to use RAHM and at least reasonably balanced PvP will keep ppl playing and paying for gear. So I believe we will see both gold/random loot after a match and good enough balance for teams. Otherwise PvP won't be played as much and many ppl will lose their interest in it which if can be avoided will be by blizzard no matter what they stated as they also stated that everything may change at any time.
They may just give some gold and some random loot to each person in a winning team. I think it should be good enough and give same incentive to do pvp as pve gives without any gambling involved. Also gambling would make the best fights be based on amount of money you can gather and some fights may start from one million which you could never afford and only rich ppl who buy gold on RAHM. Gambling is a serious business, better forget about it. Wanna see what they can do look WoW but subtract PVP specific items. Regarding character balance there won't be in one on one fights but there will be plenty of balance in three on three mixed character matches.
Creating any kind of buy-in mechanic for PvP would be a step towards eSports, breaking Blizzard's vow to not add features along the lines of eSports. As such, we won't likely see something like that.
As for PvP balance...I estimate it'll be so-so at best as Diablo 3 is a game designed around killing large waves of monsters, and doesn't focus much on single targets. I have a feeling that within a month or two of PvP being released, we'll see a class or two just dominate PvP due to some combination of abilities. Blizzard has already stated that they do not intend on balancing the game around PvP...so we aren't likely to see any PvP-based balance changes other then crowd control duration.
Well, they still want they player base to use RAHM and at least reasonably balanced PvP will keep ppl playing and paying for gear. So I believe we will see both gold/random loot after a match and good enough balance for teams. Otherwise PvP won't be played as much and many ppl will lose their interest in it which if can be avoided will be by blizzard no matter what they stated as they also stated that everything may change at any time.
But we will have to wait and see.
You really overestimate PvP. No offence, but people still play Diablo 2 to this day and don't care about PvP. People will use the RMAH to get perfect gear for their characters just to PvE better. Sure, PvP would help RMAH sales to a small degree...but people will still make use of the RMAH quite heavily purely for PvE.
wagers would be cool, but it wont happen im afraid
something else would be cool is that you aqquire upgrades in arena gear (no like pvp gear), what i mean is that there is a treasure chest and whom ever wins gets the chest, but if you loose you loose an arena item on yourself
but again that is very complicated and easy to exploit
or the winners gain you weapons & titles
winning streaks also, you gain titles but if you loose your title is gone, but again that can exploited,,,,, hmmm
I'm a lil curious as to why all the suggestions for PvP revolve around competitive features when Blizzard has outright stated that PvP in Diablo 3 will be casual? Playing with the chance of losing something is not casual. Playing for money is not casual. These kinds of things are not in line with the design for Diablo 3 PvP, at all.
You really overestimate PvP. No offence, but people still play Diablo 2 to this day and don't care about PvP. People will use the RMAH to get perfect gear for their characters just to PvE better. Sure, PvP would help RMAH sales to a small degree...but people will still make use of the RMAH quite heavily purely for PvE.
PvP will be no more and no less important as it is in WoW.
You really overestimate PvP. No offence, but people still play Diablo 2 to this day and don't care about PvP. People will use the RMAH to get perfect gear for their characters just to PvE better. Sure, PvP would help RMAH sales to a small degree...but people will still make use of the RMAH quite heavily purely for PvE.
PvP will be no more and no less important as it is in WoW.
You're probably right, and from looking at Mysts of Pandaria...Blizzard as chosen to focus more on PvM and less on PvP. Many ability/talent changes in MoP are extremely powerful in PvP (bordering on overpowered, if not just). The same will be the case with Diablo 3...PvP will be a solid part of it, but balance will be focused on PvM and not PvP. There are many people that play the auction house in WoW purely to make them even better at PvM. I'm pretty confident that in WoW even, PvM and casual PvP make up the majority of players...not hardcare PvP.
You really overestimate PvP. No offence, but people still play Diablo 2 to this day and don't care about PvP. People will use the RMAH to get perfect gear for their characters just to PvE better. Sure, PvP would help RMAH sales to a small degree...but people will still make use of the RMAH quite heavily purely for PvE.
PvP will be no more and no less important as it is in WoW.
You're probably right, and from looking at Mysts of Pandaria...Blizzard as chosen to focus more on PvM and less on PvP. Many ability/talent changes in MoP are extremely powerful in PvP (bordering on overpowered, if not just). The same will be the case with Diablo 3...PvP will be a solid part of it, but balance will be focused on PvM and not PvP. There are many people that play the auction house in WoW purely to make them even better at PvM. I'm pretty confident that in WoW even, PvM and casual PvP make up the majority of players...not hardcare PvP.
I believe that PvE will be probably more important than PvP in D3 but I also believe that blizzard won't penalize ppl who enjoy PvP more than PvE. To do so they will probably give some gold and some random items for wining team as it is far from gambling and anything of such. Regarding balance it won't matter as I'm quite sure that most popular matches will revolve around teams of three. With teams so huge and random balancing will be of less issue. Also they will balance ppl not based on their gear but PvP level/skill so if there is somebody with great gear who averagely win 3 matches per 10 and somebody with crap gear who win same amount of matches they may still be matched. So balance will be achieved by looking at general performance of the player. I think it may be even more fun than real balancing based on gear and character lvl (imagine killing some geared noob lvl 60 with your just so so lvl 55 )
Blizzard banned some players a few years ago back in WoW for betting with ingame gold on duels. RMAH or not, i doubt the policy has changed since then.
Lol, Blizzard is funny sometimes. But with all those gold sellers around and blizzard not being able to stop them it might have been required from them to stop any gambling even in WoW.
I believe that PvE will be probably more important than PvP in D3 but I also believe that blizzard won't penalize ppl who enjoy PvP more than PvE. To do so they will probably give some gold and some random items for wining team as it is far from gambling and anything of such. Regarding balance it won't matter as I'm quite sure that most popular matches will revolve around teams of three. With teams so huge and random balancing will be of less issue. Also they will balance ppl not based on their gear but PvP level/skill so if there is somebody with great gear who averagely win 3 matches per 10 and somebody with crap gear who win same amount of matches they may still be matched. So balance will be achieved by looking at general performance of the player. I think it may be even more fun than real balancing based on gear and character lvl (imagine killing some geared noob lvl 60 with your just so so lvl 55 )
Blizzard has already actually stated the rewards for PvP will be achievements primarily with vanity items likely making an appearance later. So, don't expect actual gear from doing PvP. You need to realize that PvP in Diablo is not some competitive eSport. Its a casual thing you do when you don't feel like smashing through more monsters. I don't think they are going to change their view on this at all.
I believe that PvE will be probably more important than PvP in D3 but I also believe that blizzard won't penalize ppl who enjoy PvP more than PvE. To do so they will probably give some gold and some random items for wining team as it is far from gambling and anything of such. Regarding balance it won't matter as I'm quite sure that most popular matches will revolve around teams of three. With teams so huge and random balancing will be of less issue. Also they will balance ppl not based on their gear but PvP level/skill so if there is somebody with great gear who averagely win 3 matches per 10 and somebody with crap gear who win same amount of matches they may still be matched. So balance will be achieved by looking at general performance of the player. I think it may be even more fun than real balancing based on gear and character lvl (imagine killing some geared noob lvl 60 with your just so so lvl 55 )
Blizzard has already actually stated the rewards for PvP will be achievements primarily with vanity items likely making an appearance later. So, don't expect actual gear from doing PvP. You need to realize that PvP in Diablo is not some competitive eSport. Its a casual thing you do when you don't feel like smashing through more monsters. I don't think they are going to change their view on this at all.
Im convinced you are just trolling the forums now. You can't honestly be that blind and slow. Wagering in game gold is no way hardcore, no way esports, no way illegal. It is about as hardcore and MFing, it is about as close to esports as a race to level 60, and it is about as illegal as selling any gear you MF. Got it?
Also I am convinced you are trolling because you honestly think people play Diablo 2 to this day to only PvM ha. Look at D2JSP which OWNS and I mean OWNS Diablos economy. What are people trading for? What are people doing? They are PvPing. I cannot make this any easier for you to see beyond this. Face it, your game that you love and think is all PvM is ran by PvP. Your kind of player base has gone and left the series many many years ago, get over it. I like how you try and say people want to get better gear to make PvM easier, dude PvM is stupidly easy in Diablo, no way no how would anyone need to get perfect gear to make that shit easier. My level 9 LLD could clear the whole content.
Blizzard has already actually stated the rewards for PvP will be achievements primarily with vanity items likely making an appearance later. So, don't expect actual gear from doing PvP. You need to realize that PvP in Diablo is not some competitive eSport. Its a casual thing you do when you don't feel like smashing through more monsters. I don't think they are going to change their view on this at all.
We'll see about it. But I don't care as I'm not PvP lover. Just would like PvP players to be able to get smth for their effort. Though as far they get some achievements and vanity items it may just suffice. Still this won't be good enough for me to even approach PvP in this case. No items, no play
I believe that PvE will be probably more important than PvP in D3 but I also believe that blizzard won't penalize ppl who enjoy PvP more than PvE. To do so they will probably give some gold and some random items for wining team as it is far from gambling and anything of such. Regarding balance it won't matter as I'm quite sure that most popular matches will revolve around teams of three. With teams so huge and random balancing will be of less issue. Also they will balance ppl not based on their gear but PvP level/skill so if there is somebody with great gear who averagely win 3 matches per 10 and somebody with crap gear who win same amount of matches they may still be matched. So balance will be achieved by looking at general performance of the player. I think it may be even more fun than real balancing based on gear and character lvl (imagine killing some geared noob lvl 60 with your just so so lvl 55 )
Blizzard has already actually stated the rewards for PvP will be achievements primarily with vanity items likely making an appearance later. So, don't expect actual gear from doing PvP. You need to realize that PvP in Diablo is not some competitive eSport. Its a casual thing you do when you don't feel like smashing through more monsters. I don't think they are going to change their view on this at all.
Im convinced you are just trolling the forums now. You can't honestly be that blind and slow. Wagering in game gold is no way hardcore, no way esports, no way illegal. It is about as hardcore and MFing, it is about as close to esports as a race to level 60, and it is about as illegal as selling any gear you MF. Got it?
Also I am convinced you are trolling because you honestly think people play Diablo 2 to this day to only PvM ha. Look at D2JSP which OWNS and I mean OWNS Diablos economy. What are people trading for? What are people doing? They are PvPing. I cannot make this any easier for you to see beyond this. Face it, your game that you love and think is all PvM is ran by PvP. Your kind of player base has gone and left the series many many years ago, get over it. I like how you try and say people want to get better gear to make PvM easier, dude PvM is stupidly easy in Diablo, no way no how would anyone need to get perfect gear to make that shit easier. My level 9 LLD could clear the whole content.
Man, you make my day bright. Punch him more, buh buh, gong
I think wagers in pvp would be an interesting thing. I doubt they'll be implemented though. It gets kind of slippery since currency is involved in the items, it's something the lawyers would have to do quite a bit of research on. There was a similar thing with website called Skillground. They got around the gambling aspect by saying that the games were skill based, not luck based. But they still had legal trouble in some places. It's probably more hassle than Blizzard wants to deal with unless they're going to get a cut of the action like with the RMAH, they didn't pay their law department a bunch of money to research the legality of it, just so that they could provide the service.
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That being said, the definition of gambling may vary country to country in which case I could see why Blizzard would not include it.
As for esports...there is no betting in esports. There are the occasional money matches, which are completely legal by the way.
As for the eSport issue, it is actually a valid issue. A couple of you have mentioned it would make this more 'competitive'. That statement alone screams eSport. Diablo 3 PvP isn't about being extremely competitive, its casual PvP where you kill other players for points in a team death match. They may alter this in the future, but everything we've been told about PvP says they are shooting for a casual PvP experience, not a competitive one.
They may just give some gold and some random loot to each person in a winning team. I think it should be good enough and give same incentive to do pvp as pve gives without any gambling involved. Also gambling would make the best fights be based on amount of money you can gather and some fights may start from one million which you could never afford and only rich ppl who buy gold on RAHM. Gambling is a serious business, better forget about it. Wanna see what they can do look WoW but subtract PVP specific items. Regarding character balance there won't be in one on one fights but there will be plenty of balance in three on three mixed character matches.
Like in live, go dig wholes on a street for $5 per/hour. It's unlimited supply of $$$ w8ing for you there.
Creating any kind of buy-in mechanic for PvP would be a step towards eSports, breaking Blizzard's vow to not add features along the lines of eSports. As such, we won't likely see something like that.
As for PvP balance...I estimate it'll be so-so at best as Diablo 3 is a game designed around killing large waves of monsters, and doesn't focus much on single targets. I have a feeling that within a month or two of PvP being released, we'll see a class or two just dominate PvP due to some combination of abilities. Blizzard has already stated that they do not intend on balancing the game around PvP...so we aren't likely to see any PvP-based balance changes other then crowd control duration.
Well, they still want they player base to use RAHM and at least reasonably balanced PvP will keep ppl playing and paying for gear. So I believe we will see both gold/random loot after a match and good enough balance for teams. Otherwise PvP won't be played as much and many ppl will lose their interest in it which if can be avoided will be by blizzard no matter what they stated as they also stated that everything may change at any time.
But we will have to wait and see.
You really overestimate PvP. No offence, but people still play Diablo 2 to this day and don't care about PvP. People will use the RMAH to get perfect gear for their characters just to PvE better. Sure, PvP would help RMAH sales to a small degree...but people will still make use of the RMAH quite heavily purely for PvE.
I'm a lil curious as to why all the suggestions for PvP revolve around competitive features when Blizzard has outright stated that PvP in Diablo 3 will be casual? Playing with the chance of losing something is not casual. Playing for money is not casual. These kinds of things are not in line with the design for Diablo 3 PvP, at all.
PvP will be no more and no less important as it is in WoW.
You're probably right, and from looking at Mysts of Pandaria...Blizzard as chosen to focus more on PvM and less on PvP. Many ability/talent changes in MoP are extremely powerful in PvP (bordering on overpowered, if not just). The same will be the case with Diablo 3...PvP will be a solid part of it, but balance will be focused on PvM and not PvP. There are many people that play the auction house in WoW purely to make them even better at PvM. I'm pretty confident that in WoW even, PvM and casual PvP make up the majority of players...not hardcare PvP.
I believe that PvE will be probably more important than PvP in D3 but I also believe that blizzard won't penalize ppl who enjoy PvP more than PvE. To do so they will probably give some gold and some random items for wining team as it is far from gambling and anything of such. Regarding balance it won't matter as I'm quite sure that most popular matches will revolve around teams of three. With teams so huge and random balancing will be of less issue. Also they will balance ppl not based on their gear but PvP level/skill so if there is somebody with great gear who averagely win 3 matches per 10 and somebody with crap gear who win same amount of matches they may still be matched. So balance will be achieved by looking at general performance of the player. I think it may be even more fun than real balancing based on gear and character lvl (imagine killing some geared noob lvl 60 with your just so so lvl 55
Lol, Blizzard is funny sometimes. But with all those gold sellers around and blizzard not being able to stop them it might have been required from them to stop any gambling even in WoW.
Blizzard has already actually stated the rewards for PvP will be achievements primarily with vanity items likely making an appearance later. So, don't expect actual gear from doing PvP. You need to realize that PvP in Diablo is not some competitive eSport. Its a casual thing you do when you don't feel like smashing through more monsters. I don't think they are going to change their view on this at all.
Also I am convinced you are trolling because you honestly think people play Diablo 2 to this day to only PvM ha. Look at D2JSP which OWNS and I mean OWNS Diablos economy. What are people trading for? What are people doing? They are PvPing. I cannot make this any easier for you to see beyond this. Face it, your game that you love and think is all PvM is ran by PvP. Your kind of player base has gone and left the series many many years ago, get over it. I like how you try and say people want to get better gear to make PvM easier, dude PvM is stupidly easy in Diablo, no way no how would anyone need to get perfect gear to make that shit easier. My level 9 LLD could clear the whole content.
We'll see about it. But I don't care as I'm not PvP lover. Just would like PvP players to be able to get smth for their effort. Though as far they get some achievements and vanity items it may just suffice. Still this won't be good enough for me to even approach PvP in this case. No items, no play
Man, you make my day bright. Punch him more, buh buh, gong