Oh well see, ill run my stuff to gather the data don't worry!
Your stuff?! So, you'll somehow hack Blizzard and get the exact numbers for number of players playing in private games versus public games eh? Because unless you can do that, you'll be waiting on Blizzard to actually announce something...which they might not do.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter.. if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. In all honestly, it means that dueling/hostility is a WORSE idea as players would be using private games even more and as such more exposure to the negatives. So, if you're right... the result stays the same.
I gots stuff, good stuff. Itll prove my dominance.
I still got my hopes that the big changes blizz is still implementing and considering on thier pvp mechanics may involve the inclusion of hostility. I think enough people liked the idea that there is a chance some 'form' of hostility might comeback. This might explain the shear magnitude of the changes, they have to be doing something big with PvP for the things to still be in construction because PvP was showcased in some of the early diablo 3 demos at the blizzcons.
I still got my hopes that the big changes blizz is still implementing and considering on thier pvp mechanics may involve the inclusion of hostility. I think enough people liked the idea that there is a chance some 'form' of hostility might comeback. This might explain the shear magnitude of the changes, they have to be doing something big with PvP for the things to still be in construction because PvP was showcased in some of the early diablo 3 demos at the blizzcons.
Doubt it, will most likely never happen. Jay Wilson is an avid caped crusader against hostility, he was obviously attacked and killed many times to give him such trauma. It allows to much "griefing" opportunity, and they don't care enough about the "little people" who liked the features it offered beyond griefing. We will most likely get a boring ass team arena where you will be forced to team duel or join randoms and get stomped by an organized group, and have to make 3 games just to duel once and continue where you left off.
$10 says Ecutruin comes in here and writes 3 essays explaining how hostility is bad and PvP and PvM don't mix or whatever he rants about.
A system that can easily be abused is not a good system. Hostility easy to abuse. Are you saying that that abuse is okay then? To which I personally can't agree. That's the fault in that system, it's not about the little people that didn't grief it is about the many that did. Apparently the many should suffer for the enjoyment of the few.
I still got my hopes that the big changes blizz is still implementing and considering on thier pvp mechanics may involve the inclusion of hostility. I think enough people liked the idea that there is a chance some 'form' of hostility might comeback. This might explain the shear magnitude of the changes, they have to be doing something big with PvP for the things to still be in construction because PvP was showcased in some of the early diablo 3 demos at the blizzcons.
Nope. Wrong. Explained multiple times and you didn't read. See previous topics/posts.
Doubt it, will most likely never happen. Jay Wilson is an avid caped crusader against hostility, he was obviously attacked and killed many times to give him such trauma. It allows to much "griefing" opportunity, and they don't care enough about the "little people" who liked the features it offered beyond griefing. We will most likely get a boring ass team arena where you will be forced to team duel or join randoms and get stomped by an organized group, and have to make 3 games just to duel once and continue where you left off.
$10 says Ecutruin comes in here and writes 3 essays explaining how hostility is bad and PvP and PvM don't mix or whatever he rants about.
Can I get that $10 now? or does it go to him? Cause I sure didn't post 3 essays.
A system that can easily be abused is not a good system. Hostility easy to abuse. Are you saying that that abuse is okay then? To which I personally can't agree. That's the fault in that system, it's not about the little people that didn't grief it is about the many that did. Apparently the many should suffer for the enjoyment of the few.
It is about a system that has been intact in Diablo since it was created. It is also about the people who enjoyed the feature of the random dynamic emotions it brought to the game. Now you join a game and thats it, you know exactly what is going to happen and how, it is very static.
It is about a system that has been intact in Diablo since it was created. It is also about the people who enjoyed the feature of the random dynamic emotions it brought to the game. Now you join a game and thats it, you know exactly what is going to happen and how, it is very static.
Damn im out $10.
So the desires of the few should override the desires of the many, eh? I mean...most every poll here on the issue has been against it. This is coming from the PvP forum, where you'd kind of expect that the majority of posters would be FOR the feature...
It is about a system that has been intact in Diablo since it was created. It is also about the people who enjoyed the feature of the random dynamic emotions it brought to the game. Now you join a game and thats it, you know exactly what is going to happen and how, it is very static.
Damn im out $10.
So the desires of the few should override the desires of the many, eh? I mean...most every poll here on the issue has been against it. This is coming from the PvP forum, where you'd kind of expect that the majority of posters would be FOR the feature...
Well the website I directed you to before in D2JSP is FOR it and they control the whole Diablo economy ATM ha. The people voting in this sub forum are the PvM people, this website is mainly PvM oriented and team play coop, not to many PvP in this website. It doesn't matter, I am not saying it will be in the game, I am saying I would enjoy it, even it was only in private whatever. Kills a part of the game for me but whatever well see what they do with the arena.
Well the website I directed you to before in D2JSP is FOR it and they control the whole Diablo economy ATM ha. The people voting in this sub forum are the PvM people, this website is mainly PvM oriented and team play coop, not to many PvP in this website. It doesn't matter, I am not saying it will be in the game, I am saying I would enjoy it, even it was only in private whatever. Kills a part of the game for me but whatever well see what they do with the arena.
From everything I've seen, Diablofans is one of if not the most popular fan sites for Diablo 3. In fact D2JSP doesn't actually come up at all in a search for "Diablo 3 fansite". So, I'm not sure how much an opinion on D2JSP actually represents the majority of players that will be playing Diablo 3.
In addition to that, D2JSP only corners the Diablo 2 economy because there is no auction system in Diablo 2. With the RMAH and GAH in Diablo 3, you won't see the majority of players use any site like D2JSP at all. Why subject yourself to scams and shady deals when you can just sell them easily using a built-in system?
Oh, and I looked at the D2JSP forum...the only poll related to PvP in the first 10 pages was asking if people actually planned on PVPing at all. I had nothing to do with hostility or dueling. So am I missing something?...
Well first off, pretty simple. No it would act much like D2 hostility probably with a few tweaks if needed so no dueling in town. If they gain your trust and grief you then that is on you, should be better at reading people. If they don't want pvp then stay out of private games with randoms?
Yea the arena fixes everything!! Team battles which EVERYONE wants. Health globes which EVERYONE wants. 3 games to duel once which EVERYONE wants. Man...blizzard rocks!
You are the exact person I was talking about, no idea about PvP at all, just a PvM'er who comes in this sub forum to try and say everything is alright when clearly you are just going to go die to Leoric at level 60 in normal ha.
I've pvp'd in D2 since it first came out son. And guess what? PVP in D2 was fun, but I'll be the first person to admit the mechanics suck compared to an arena system with D3.
There has been ZERO good reasons to bring back hostility. It's been proven the overwhelming majority of players didn't care for it / like it from D2, and you using personal attacks doesn't help your case at all, it just makes you seem like you don't know what you're talking about.
Besides 'I want it' can you give just ONE reason on why bringing back hostility will benefit the community in any way? You say you want to implement it in private games with friends, did you know that you can just queue up for pvp with your friends when PVP for D3 is launched? It's literally the same thing, and without trying for a personal attack myself, it sounds like you are just nostalgic about D2 and you don't like change.
Not sure why some people are still talking about hostility = griefing, seeing as how I have specifically said it'd be for private, passworded games *only* in just about every single post, the title, the poll, op, etc.
Besides 'I want it' can you give just ONE reason on why bringing back hostility will benefit the community in any way? You say you want to implement it in private games with friends, did you know that you can just queue up for pvp with your friends when PVP for D3 is launched? It's literally the same thing, and without trying for a personal attack myself, it sounds like you are just nostalgic about D2 and you don't like change.
It's not even close to being the same thing. First off hostility doesn't promote esports, unlike a (hidden) ranked arena with pre-compositioned teams and gear. Second it's a way to goof off and play against your friends, so to speak, during existing games for fun. It's a completely laid back environment whereas arena stresses people out. Even with their records barely shown in sc2, people are afraid to queue up because they know they're being ranked in the end. The vast majority of people will be playing solo or in private games with friends and family, especially over time, despite what people may think (the beta is an extremely small world without public features).
As of right now there is no way and no promise that the arena will be customizable in so that you can play against who you want and how you want to. It will always be you and your friends vs 3 randoms in a tdm setting. That's fine and all, but it's not quite enough for the people here who actually should be posting in the pvp forums about pvp not about pvm and how we want to control the way people think and the amount of complaints blizzard might potentially get.
Resources 2 years into retail =/= good argument for making the game better with features that have existed and should continue to exist in one form or another for over a decade.
Besides 'I want it' can you give just ONE reason on why bringing back hostility will benefit the community in any way? You say you want to implement it in private games with friends, did you know that you can just queue up for pvp with your friends when PVP for D3 is launched? It's literally the same thing, and without trying for a personal attack myself, it sounds like you are just nostalgic about D2 and you don't like change.
It's not even close to being the same thing. First off hostility doesn't promote esports, unlike a (hidden) ranked arena with pre-compositioned teams and gear. Second it's a way to goof off and play against your friends, so to speak, during existing games for fun. It's a completely laid back environment whereas arena stresses people out. Even with their records barely shown in sc2, people are afraid to queue up because they know they're being ranked in the end. The vast majority of people will be playing solo or in private games with friends and family, especially over time, despite what people may think (the beta is an extremely small world without public features).
As of right now there is no way and no promise that the arena will be customizable in so that you can play against who you want and how you want to. It will always be you and your friends vs 3 randoms in a tdm setting. That's fine and all, but it's not quite enough for the people here who actually should be posting in the pvp forums about pvp not about pvm and how we want to control the way people think and the amount of complaints blizzard might potentially get.
Resources 2 years into retail =/= good argument for making the game better with features that have existed and should continue to exist in one form or another for over a decade.
So after all that, the argument is that people will be stressed out if they play in arena? It's also nothing like SC2, since SC2 is actually ranked and it SHOWS your rank. It doesn't show in D3, there's no way to know.
All in all I wouldn't care if they put in some type of duel system in and would probably use. BUT, I could also care less if they don't put one in, considering there's arena.
It's not even close to being the same thing. First off hostility doesn't promote esports, unlike a (hidden) ranked arena with pre-compositioned teams and gear. Second it's a way to goof off and play against your friends, so to speak, during existing games for fun. It's a completely laid back environment whereas arena stresses people out. Even with their records barely shown in sc2, people are afraid to queue up because they know they're being ranked in the end. The vast majority of people will be playing solo or in private games with friends and family, especially over time, despite what people may think (the beta is an extremely small world without public features).
As of right now there is no way and no promise that the arena will be customizable in so that you can play against who you want and how you want to. It will always be you and your friends vs 3 randoms in a tdm setting. That's fine and all, but it's not quite enough for the people here who actually should be posting in the pvp forums about pvp not about pvm and how we want to control the way people think and the amount of complaints blizzard might potentially get.
Resources 2 years into retail =/= good argument for making the game better with features that have existed and should continue to exist in one form or another for over a decade.
You didn't really give a reason they SHOULD bring back hostility/dueling really. Diablo 3 PvP isn't actually ranked in that you cannot see your rank at all. In addition, the Arena system is a much easier way to get decent PvP when you want it as it has a matchmaking system that takes gear into account. Why would the average player prefer hostility/duels in private games over an integrated system that levels the playing field?
The beta is just that, the beta. It doesn't have the population to sustain consistent questing over all levels and as such you end up with wait times occasionally. This can drive people towards private games as they don't want to wait. Especially when there are only 13 levels that are playable. However, once the game goes live that will no longer be an issue as the population goes from a few hundred thousand playing at once to millions. So don't think that beta is any indication of public / private usage.
You seem fixated on my comment about resources, be failed to recognize WHY I said it wouldn't be worth the resources. I specifically said that the reason it wouldn't be worth doing is because it'd be a NEGATIVE impact on the community. As others have stated here it is still likely it would be used for griefing despite it being private games. It would also give rise to more complaints about such features not being in public games.
Tell me this, what benefit does dueling/hostility offer that an Arena mode for dueling/FFA wouldn't offer?
This solution would please more people than not, grow the in game economy and retail economy by keeping people who like to pvp around playing the game and buying new content, and allow people to kick back and have fun with their friends to test out new skills, items and strategies. The question stands.
It would keep more people around playing for longer in the long run (more box sales, more dlc purchase, more auction house transaction fees) and keep some of the flavor people loved about the old diablo games but in a more controlled non-grief environment hurting no one.
The only issue I have with adding dueling or hostility for private games is that it would take development time away from other things. It's probably something that a comparitively small percentage of users would use, whereas something like better AH integration, API's for fan sites, a cosmetic item system, etc. would see far more use for the development time spent on them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
It would keep more people around playing for longer in the long run (more box sales, more dlc purchase, more auction house transaction fees) and keep some of the flavor people loved about the old diablo games but in a more controlled non-grief environment hurting no one.
I think devoting the time instead to adding a more Arena features, more PvM content, etc would do a lot more towards keeping people play the game then a feature that the majority of players wouldn't use. There is little desire for these features from the overall community and I'd rather see the time spent elsewhere.
I think devoting the time instead to adding a more Arena features, more PvM content, etc would do a lot more towards keeping people play the game then a feature that the majority of players wouldn't use. There is little desire for these features from the overall community and I'd rather see the time spent elsewhere.
How can you say that (time and time again) with the way the votes are stacked up here alone. It's almost two to one. I understand resources, but also understand that a good many people see this as worth the (limited amount of) resources it'd take to implement in a patch or expansion down the road. I mean to be honest a lot of people who care about pvp have all but given up discussing it here because everytime they come post a handfull of people who want little to nothing to do with pvp in general come and smack them upside the head with pvm, which is cool and all, but this is the pvp forum after all as well. I didn't come into the pvp forum to talk about how we should save more resources for pvm The argument started out as "one player should not be able to ruin another player's gaming experience" to "blizzard doesn't have time to cater to both parties, my party wins, stop posting beating dead horse".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The strong must rule if we are to survive.
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Welp, I suppose that's the end of this discussion. Hey mods, can we get a close here?
$10 says Ecutruin comes in here and writes 3 essays explaining how hostility is bad and PvP and PvM don't mix or whatever he rants about.
Nope. Wrong. Explained multiple times and you didn't read. See previous topics/posts.
Can I get that $10 now? or does it go to him? Cause I sure didn't post 3 essays.
Damn im out $10.
So the desires of the few should override the desires of the many, eh? I mean...most every poll here on the issue has been against it. This is coming from the PvP forum, where you'd kind of expect that the majority of posters would be FOR the feature...
From everything I've seen, Diablofans is one of if not the most popular fan sites for Diablo 3. In fact D2JSP doesn't actually come up at all in a search for "Diablo 3 fansite". So, I'm not sure how much an opinion on D2JSP actually represents the majority of players that will be playing Diablo 3.
In addition to that, D2JSP only corners the Diablo 2 economy because there is no auction system in Diablo 2. With the RMAH and GAH in Diablo 3, you won't see the majority of players use any site like D2JSP at all. Why subject yourself to scams and shady deals when you can just sell them easily using a built-in system?
Oh, and I looked at the D2JSP forum...the only poll related to PvP in the first 10 pages was asking if people actually planned on PVPing at all. I had nothing to do with hostility or dueling. So am I missing something?...
I've pvp'd in D2 since it first came out son. And guess what? PVP in D2 was fun, but I'll be the first person to admit the mechanics suck compared to an arena system with D3.
There has been ZERO good reasons to bring back hostility. It's been proven the overwhelming majority of players didn't care for it / like it from D2, and you using personal attacks doesn't help your case at all, it just makes you seem like you don't know what you're talking about.
Besides 'I want it' can you give just ONE reason on why bringing back hostility will benefit the community in any way? You say you want to implement it in private games with friends, did you know that you can just queue up for pvp with your friends when PVP for D3 is launched? It's literally the same thing, and without trying for a personal attack myself, it sounds like you are just nostalgic about D2 and you don't like change.
It's not even close to being the same thing. First off hostility doesn't promote esports, unlike a (hidden) ranked arena with pre-compositioned teams and gear. Second it's a way to goof off and play against your friends, so to speak, during existing games for fun. It's a completely laid back environment whereas arena stresses people out. Even with their records barely shown in sc2, people are afraid to queue up because they know they're being ranked in the end. The vast majority of people will be playing solo or in private games with friends and family, especially over time, despite what people may think (the beta is an extremely small world without public features).
As of right now there is no way and no promise that the arena will be customizable in so that you can play against who you want and how you want to. It will always be you and your friends vs 3 randoms in a tdm setting. That's fine and all, but it's not quite enough for the people here who actually should be posting in the pvp forums about pvp not about pvm and how we want to control the way people think and the amount of complaints blizzard might potentially get.
Resources 2 years into retail =/= good argument for making the game better with features that have existed and should continue to exist in one form or another for over a decade.
So after all that, the argument is that people will be stressed out if they play in arena? It's also nothing like SC2, since SC2 is actually ranked and it SHOWS your rank. It doesn't show in D3, there's no way to know.
All in all I wouldn't care if they put in some type of duel system in and would probably use. BUT, I could also care less if they don't put one in, considering there's arena.
You didn't really give a reason they SHOULD bring back hostility/dueling really. Diablo 3 PvP isn't actually ranked in that you cannot see your rank at all. In addition, the Arena system is a much easier way to get decent PvP when you want it as it has a matchmaking system that takes gear into account. Why would the average player prefer hostility/duels in private games over an integrated system that levels the playing field?
The beta is just that, the beta. It doesn't have the population to sustain consistent questing over all levels and as such you end up with wait times occasionally. This can drive people towards private games as they don't want to wait. Especially when there are only 13 levels that are playable. However, once the game goes live that will no longer be an issue as the population goes from a few hundred thousand playing at once to millions. So don't think that beta is any indication of public / private usage.
You seem fixated on my comment about resources, be failed to recognize WHY I said it wouldn't be worth the resources. I specifically said that the reason it wouldn't be worth doing is because it'd be a NEGATIVE impact on the community. As others have stated here it is still likely it would be used for griefing despite it being private games. It would also give rise to more complaints about such features not being in public games.
Tell me this, what benefit does dueling/hostility offer that an Arena mode for dueling/FFA wouldn't offer?
It would keep more people around playing for longer in the long run (more box sales, more dlc purchase, more auction house transaction fees) and keep some of the flavor people loved about the old diablo games but in a more controlled non-grief environment hurting no one.
I think devoting the time instead to adding a more Arena features, more PvM content, etc would do a lot more towards keeping people play the game then a feature that the majority of players wouldn't use. There is little desire for these features from the overall community and I'd rather see the time spent elsewhere.
If there is really a significant downside to this design, I'd love to hear it.
How can you say that (time and time again) with the way the votes are stacked up here alone. It's almost two to one. I understand resources, but also understand that a good many people see this as worth the (limited amount of) resources it'd take to implement in a patch or expansion down the road. I mean to be honest a lot of people who care about pvp have all but given up discussing it here because everytime they come post a handfull of people who want little to nothing to do with pvp in general come and smack them upside the head with pvm, which is cool and all, but this is the pvp forum after all as well. I didn't come into the pvp forum to talk about how we should save more resources for pvm