I may be wrong, but blizzard hasn't given nearly good enough a reason for completely taking out world pvp and the hostile system. Last I read, some blizzard rep stated "There are many reasons why..."in reference to why they won't be implementing it.
Here's how I see things. When you have a stomach ache, you don't go to the doctor and get your stomach removed. Instead, you find the issue and take whatever actions are necessary. Clearly PvP doesn't function like a stomach (but I hope you get the point). The stomach is essential to our survival, as is PvP is essential to a diversified gaming experience. You may disagree with me, but PvE in Diablo 2 was simply a means to and end (PvP). You played through the story, farmed your items, and then dueled. There wasn't another route. It's not interesting to keep replaying the same content and getting the same story over again. Most Diabloers didn't farm mindlessly for no purpose but to look pretty; PvP was the incentive. It was highly fun and addictive, and to be honest the only reason why myself and many invested so many years into Diablo 2. Clearly the world PvP aspect of Diablo 2 was a success. When a system works well and is SUCCESSFUL, there has to be a damn good reason why you would COMPLETELY remove it.
What issues does this successful system have that deems it beyond repair? I'll list all the issues I can think of.
Problem: A player can sabotage another's PvE experience by attacking them in the middle of a quest.
Solution: Make the hostile feature a request. if the other player doesn't want to duel, he should have the option to decline. BOOM, solved.
Off the top of my head, that's the only real issue I can think of. Please enlighten me.
Now to Diablo 3. The PvE will be more meaningful. It won't be easy to clear all the content. Gear now has PvE incentive because of Inferno. That's cool and all, but why can't you let their be more than one incentive? Well, there will be, I suppose. But the arena system is like a prison compared to world PvP. Blizzard is concerned with how different features in the game feel to the user. The feeling of a confined PvP area that functions under a confined set of rules is suffocating compared to free dueling anywhere you want. The whole point of random item prefixes, skill customization, and different map set ups is to create a feeling of limitless possibility. World PvP would only assist in promoting that feeling, whereas arena seems too structured.
I don't see how joining a game with a cap of 4 players and requesting to duel someone is much different from joining an arena and dueling someone? If your goal is to beat someone 1v1 with both players aware. Then I think you'll accomplish that.
If the PvP arenas utilized the same random set up as the world would you be happy?
I may be wrong, but blizzard hasn't given nearly good enough a reason for completely taking out world pvp and the hostile system. Last I read, some blizzard rep stated "There are many reasons why..."in reference to why they won't be implementing it.
Here's how I see things. When you have a stomach ache, you don't go to the doctor and get your stomach removed. Instead, you find the issue and take whatever actions are necessary. Clearly PvP doesn't function like a stomach (but I hope you get the point). The stomach is essential to our survival, as is PvP is essential to a diversified gaming experience. You may disagree with me, but PvE in Diablo 2 was simply a means to and end (PvP). You played through the story, farmed your items, and then dueled. There wasn't another route. It's not interesting to keep replaying the same content and getting the same story over again. Most Diabloers didn't farm mindlessly for no purpose but to look pretty; PvP was the incentive. It was highly fun and addictive, and to be honest the only reason why myself and many invested so many years into Diablo 2. Clearly the world PvP aspect of Diablo 2 was a success. When a system works well and is SUCCESSFUL, there has to be a damn good reason why you would COMPLETELY remove it.
What issues does this successful system have that deems it beyond repair? I'll list all the issues I can think of.
Problem: A player can sabotage another's PvE experience by attacking them in the middle of a quest.
Solution: Make the hostile feature a request. if the other player doesn't want to duel, he should have the option to decline. BOOM, solved.
Off the top of my head, that's the only real issue I can think of. Please enlighten me.
Now to Diablo 3. The PvE will be more meaningful. It won't be easy to clear all the content. Gear now has PvE incentive because of Inferno. That's cool and all, but why can't you let their be more than one incentive? Well, there will be, I suppose. But the arena system is like a prison compared to world PvP. Blizzard is concerned with how different features in the game feel to the user. The feeling of a confined PvP area that functions under a confined set of rules is suffocating compared to free dueling anywhere you want. The whole point of random item prefixes, skill customization, and different map set ups is to create a feeling of limitless possibility. World PvP would only assist in promoting that feeling, whereas arena seems too structured.
Please share if you know why.
if you are only referring to a dueling feature, then it's because it doesnt offer enough relative to just having arenas to go to for it to make up for the development time for that feature. It would mostly be redundant.
If you are referring in general to like flagging and world pvp, then there are a ton of reasons, both rooted in the philosophy they have for diablo 3, and in the logistics of making that possible, that have caused them to go with an arena system.
I'm sorry you disagree with their perspective, and thats valid. Personally, I think it's fine as it is.
I'd be happy if the PvP wasn't so limiting and if you can do it in more than just the arena.
karsen88: What is the philosophy of Diablo 3 that excludes world PvP? What logistics? You've given me no specifics, that general stuff doesn't mean anything to me.
I would of preferred if Blizzard added in the incomplete (but still functional) PvP system in at launch. Then within the next 2 months or so, extend the content and quality of the PvP system to where they wanted it to be.
Instead of just cut it out altogether and promise the polished version in a single update.
I don't miss world PvP. Now, I'm not sure how arena PvP will work, but having a way to duel 1v1 would be nice to add, if you feel like smashing a friend. Maybe you'll be able to do that anyway, or maybe you can challenge a friend to a 1v1 arena match. I dunno.
I don't see the difference between DII's system of joining a game as hostile and having an organized PvP match with someone and DIII's system of doing it in the arena. Unless of course you just wanna go out and gank someone unexpectedly? I don't like that at all. Some people just wanna play the game without watching their back for other players. In WoW we had PvE servers for this. We don't have that in DIII.
There was no damn world pvp. Stop saying there was, it was going hostile right outside of town and dueling. It wasn't vital to the games success either. PvP wasn't even a major part of the game, for some misguided souls it apparently was, not to Blizzard.
This subject has been absolutely destroyed over the two weeks if not longer... let it go.
This. It's a new game and this time your PVP will be organized and set up to the way Blizzard wants it to be set up. Also, the difference in releasing the game with PVP or without PVP is a couple months. I would rather have D3 sooner than later in that case. While you wait on the PVP to be implemented, go farm some gear and test out builds so when it does come you'll be ready.
I would of preferred if Blizzard added in the incomplete (but still functional) PvP system in at launch. Then within the next 2 months or so, extend the content and quality of the PvP system to where they wanted it to be.
Instead of just cut it out altogether and promise the polished version in a single update.
Why would you want to PVP on launch? What weapons would you use? What characters? Would you have enough of an understanding of the skills of ALL the classes by then?
The reason they left the pvp out on launch for a later update is that even HARDCORE MEAN NASTY MOFO pvp'ers will be playing the story, learning classes and collecting loots for the first month or so.
Why hold back the launch for a feature that wont be utilised much for several months?
And as for world pvp vs arena, arena is what will keep pvp going, not pvp on pve maps with max 4 players.
Even in wow i did more arena/battlegrounds pvp than in the world map, and that was with a lot more people available, and i did not focus on PVP at all (even though it was a pvp server, only coz my mates were pvp guys)
In the words of the immortal Governator "Stop wining, you lack substance to your arguement!)
Why would you want to PVP on launch? What weapons would you use? What characters? Would you have enough of an understanding of the skills of ALL the classes by then?
I'll be a high enough level to enjoy PvP with friends long before they release the PvP content months later. I was looking forward to PvP with friends at early levels too tbh.
Why hold back the launch for a feature that wont be utilised much for several months?
I never suggested that they hold back launch. I suggested that they should of released basic PvP functionality (Which they already have running) at the normal launch date and then upgrade and polish it later - with the achievements, ranking systems, matching system etc.
Apparently, having any opinion about this game whatsoever, and expressing that opinion on a website designed for that exact purpose is WHINING?
Genesis:
I'd like to know where you got information that they had basic PvP functionality working currently? They had a previous Arena system that they showcased back at Blizzcon, but they don't have some kind of world-PvP system from what I understand. The Arena system has changed quite a bit from its previous incarnation from what I understand (point-based team deathmatch instead of elimination), and I'm sure the matchmaking system wasn't complete back at Blizzcon either.
The problem with arena (as of its last appearance) is that you can't choose who to fight with or agains, and under what rules. You always fight against strangers. *yawn*
Agreed and I hope that gets implemented when they bring PvP back. I probably wont do it for a while but fighting against friends is one thing I enjoyed about D2.
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In my mind. Basic PvP would just be a 1v1 duel scenario in an arena server with a friend. Something akin to that.
You might have a point though. I did assume they had a basic system on circumstantial evidence (videos of players running around in arenas killing each other will do this) - and that it was Blizzards policy of 100% polished mechanics that stopped even the basics being added to the game.
Yeah... I really don't see how they wouldn't have a basic system operational.
In my mind. Basic PvP would just be a 1v1 duel scenario in an arena server with a friend. Something akin to that.
You might have a point though. I did assume they had a basic system on circumstantial evidence (videos of players running around in arenas killing each other will do this) - and that it was Blizzards policy of 100% polished mechanics that stopped even the basics being added to the game.
Yeah... I really don't see how they wouldn't have a basic system operational.
Sorry, but you're making assumptions again. PvP has yet to be fully part of Diablo 3 yet at all from what I understand. They had an experimental version of PvP that was team elimination that they showcased at Blizzcon. Since then though, they've announced a change towards a point-based team deathmatch style play.
That system is still being designed from what I understand, as they focused their development team on getting the release ready. So, they had no system to just plug into the game. PvP has been last on the to-do list for Diablo 3 from all evidence I can find, so it makes sense that they don't have it ready.
As far as a Friend vs Friend, I assume that'll actually be part of the PvP patch. Seems quite silly to not let you duel your friends, and they've said they want to have a means to duel as well.
Sigh, the post got deleted from the official forums, I was going to paste my lengthy reply about this topic here and save myself some trouble.
Simply put the design of PvE doesn't support a hostile mechanic, auto partying, banners porting you right to people, putting groups on the same quests with the same waypoints and difficulty balanced for a full party = no hostile option. You're right about the stomach analogy, but the thing is Blizzard doesn't care about your stomach, they just care about curing the ache. In fact they care so much about making your stomach feel so good for as long as possible they really have no problem just taking the whole damn thing out because that's their primary focus. Sure, they could have designed the game around having a hostile system integrated with the PvE system, but it would have meant a worse PvE system. that's like them being able to cure the tummy ache without taking the stomach out, but it wouldn't cure the stomach ache nearly as fast or as well.
In the immortal words of Jay Wilson... "Shut up PvP guy!"
I don't know about PoE - but there's a pretty big gap in the market for an arpg with a strong pvp element. Kind of strange how those players are totally abandoned.
I don't know about PoE - but there's a pretty big gap in the market for an arpg with a strong pvp element. Kind of strange how those players are totally abandoned.
They aren't 'totally abandoned'. In fact, Blizzard is giving PvP more development in Diablo 3 then it has in any of the previous Diablo games. Arena allows for multiple types of structured PvP. Now that Blizzard has pushed it till after launch, they can give it a good amount of focus on it's own and make sure that its very fun. It's not going to be some super balanced, hardcore PvP. Its going to be casual, fun, fast paces, hack and slash PvP.
Honestly, I have no idea how you could say that Blizzard has abandoned PvP. This is a PvM focused game, that they will be devoting months of time integrating a full PvP system into. How is that abandoning?
Here's how I see things. When you have a stomach ache, you don't go to the doctor and get your stomach removed. Instead, you find the issue and take whatever actions are necessary. Clearly PvP doesn't function like a stomach (but I hope you get the point). The stomach is essential to our survival, as is PvP is essential to a diversified gaming experience. You may disagree with me, but PvE in Diablo 2 was simply a means to and end (PvP). You played through the story, farmed your items, and then dueled. There wasn't another route. It's not interesting to keep replaying the same content and getting the same story over again. Most Diabloers didn't farm mindlessly for no purpose but to look pretty; PvP was the incentive. It was highly fun and addictive, and to be honest the only reason why myself and many invested so many years into Diablo 2. Clearly the world PvP aspect of Diablo 2 was a success. When a system works well and is SUCCESSFUL, there has to be a damn good reason why you would COMPLETELY remove it.
What issues does this successful system have that deems it beyond repair? I'll list all the issues I can think of.
Problem: A player can sabotage another's PvE experience by attacking them in the middle of a quest.
Solution: Make the hostile feature a request. if the other player doesn't want to duel, he should have the option to decline. BOOM, solved.
Off the top of my head, that's the only real issue I can think of. Please enlighten me.
Now to Diablo 3. The PvE will be more meaningful. It won't be easy to clear all the content. Gear now has PvE incentive because of Inferno. That's cool and all, but why can't you let their be more than one incentive? Well, there will be, I suppose. But the arena system is like a prison compared to world PvP. Blizzard is concerned with how different features in the game feel to the user. The feeling of a confined PvP area that functions under a confined set of rules is suffocating compared to free dueling anywhere you want. The whole point of random item prefixes, skill customization, and different map set ups is to create a feeling of limitless possibility. World PvP would only assist in promoting that feeling, whereas arena seems too structured.
Please share if you know why.
If the PvP arenas utilized the same random set up as the world would you be happy?
if you are only referring to a dueling feature, then it's because it doesnt offer enough relative to just having arenas to go to for it to make up for the development time for that feature. It would mostly be redundant.
If you are referring in general to like flagging and world pvp, then there are a ton of reasons, both rooted in the philosophy they have for diablo 3, and in the logistics of making that possible, that have caused them to go with an arena system.
I'm sorry you disagree with their perspective, and thats valid. Personally, I think it's fine as it is.
karsen88: What is the philosophy of Diablo 3 that excludes world PvP? What logistics? You've given me no specifics, that general stuff doesn't mean anything to me.
Instead of just cut it out altogether and promise the polished version in a single update.
I don't see the difference between DII's system of joining a game as hostile and having an organized PvP match with someone and DIII's system of doing it in the arena. Unless of course you just wanna go out and gank someone unexpectedly? I don't like that at all. Some people just wanna play the game without watching their back for other players. In WoW we had PvE servers for this. We don't have that in DIII.
This. It's a new game and this time your PVP will be organized and set up to the way Blizzard wants it to be set up. Also, the difference in releasing the game with PVP or without PVP is a couple months. I would rather have D3 sooner than later in that case. While you wait on the PVP to be implemented, go farm some gear and test out builds so when it does come you'll be ready.
Why would you want to PVP on launch? What weapons would you use? What characters? Would you have enough of an understanding of the skills of ALL the classes by then?
The reason they left the pvp out on launch for a later update is that even HARDCORE MEAN NASTY MOFO pvp'ers will be playing the story, learning classes and collecting loots for the first month or so.
Why hold back the launch for a feature that wont be utilised much for several months?
And as for world pvp vs arena, arena is what will keep pvp going, not pvp on pve maps with max 4 players.
Even in wow i did more arena/battlegrounds pvp than in the world map, and that was with a lot more people available, and i did not focus on PVP at all (even though it was a pvp server, only coz my mates were pvp guys)
In the words of the immortal Governator "Stop wining, you lack substance to your arguement!)
I'll be a high enough level to enjoy PvP with friends long before they release the PvP content months later. I was looking forward to PvP with friends at early levels too tbh.
I never suggested that they hold back launch. I suggested that they should of released basic PvP functionality (Which they already have running) at the normal launch date and then upgrade and polish it later - with the achievements, ranking systems, matching system etc.
Apparently, having any opinion about this game whatsoever, and expressing that opinion on a website designed for that exact purpose is WHINING?
I'd like to know where you got information that they had basic PvP functionality working currently? They had a previous Arena system that they showcased back at Blizzcon, but they don't have some kind of world-PvP system from what I understand. The Arena system has changed quite a bit from its previous incarnation from what I understand (point-based team deathmatch instead of elimination), and I'm sure the matchmaking system wasn't complete back at Blizzcon either.
So...how what PvP system are you speaking of?
You might have a point though. I did assume they had a basic system on circumstantial evidence (videos of players running around in arenas killing each other will do this) - and that it was Blizzards policy of 100% polished mechanics that stopped even the basics being added to the game.
Yeah... I really don't see how they wouldn't have a basic system operational.
Sorry, but you're making assumptions again. PvP has yet to be fully part of Diablo 3 yet at all from what I understand. They had an experimental version of PvP that was team elimination that they showcased at Blizzcon. Since then though, they've announced a change towards a point-based team deathmatch style play.
That system is still being designed from what I understand, as they focused their development team on getting the release ready. So, they had no system to just plug into the game. PvP has been last on the to-do list for Diablo 3 from all evidence I can find, so it makes sense that they don't have it ready.
As far as a Friend vs Friend, I assume that'll actually be part of the PvP patch. Seems quite silly to not let you duel your friends, and they've said they want to have a means to duel as well.
Simply put the design of PvE doesn't support a hostile mechanic, auto partying, banners porting you right to people, putting groups on the same quests with the same waypoints and difficulty balanced for a full party = no hostile option. You're right about the stomach analogy, but the thing is Blizzard doesn't care about your stomach, they just care about curing the ache. In fact they care so much about making your stomach feel so good for as long as possible they really have no problem just taking the whole damn thing out because that's their primary focus. Sure, they could have designed the game around having a hostile system integrated with the PvE system, but it would have meant a worse PvE system. that's like them being able to cure the tummy ache without taking the stomach out, but it wouldn't cure the stomach ache nearly as fast or as well.
In the immortal words of Jay Wilson... "Shut up PvP guy!"
They aren't 'totally abandoned'. In fact, Blizzard is giving PvP more development in Diablo 3 then it has in any of the previous Diablo games. Arena allows for multiple types of structured PvP. Now that Blizzard has pushed it till after launch, they can give it a good amount of focus on it's own and make sure that its very fun. It's not going to be some super balanced, hardcore PvP. Its going to be casual, fun, fast paces, hack and slash PvP.
Honestly, I have no idea how you could say that Blizzard has abandoned PvP. This is a PvM focused game, that they will be devoting months of time integrating a full PvP system into. How is that abandoning?
They also allow you to set up ANY LEAGUE type you want (any game mode) for a price. And you invite people to this league.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."