This really boils down to a simple truth; There are two very different ways of approaching the game, and the community is pretty split on this point.
- One side only views the game as PvE only, with very limited, casual, pvp. And it seems directly opposed to anything that even resembles an attempt to understand the PvP community's wishes.
- And obviously the other side feels that the game needs to have a very deep and fundamental PvP focus, and most likely comes from a rich tradition in many many games (including both Diablo I and Diablo II) that allowed open world PvP, and a PvP focused end game.
Not trying to instigate another argument, but for a great many of us, in Diablo I and II, PvP was our main and only focus, PvE was simply a means to an end (as the OP eloquently stated) and we farmed our items through simply to improve our success in PvP.
This was an amazing feature of diablo and we only wish it to be expanded upon and adopted lovingly by blizzard. And I feel like the removal of open world PvP, and the refusal to seperately balance PvP from PvE is an attack on our Diablo culture as a whole.
Please try and understand, we know you don't want PvE messed up, but don't use that as an excuse to attack our interests as well
This really boils down to a simple truth; There are two very different ways of approaching the game, and the community is pretty split on this point.
- One side only views the game as PvE only, with very limited, casual, pvp. And it seems directly opposed to anything that even resembles an attempt to understand the PvP community's wishes.
- And obviously the other side feels that the game needs to have a very deep and fundamental PvP focus, and most likely comes from a rich tradition in many many games (including both Diablo I and Diablo II) that allowed open world PvP, and a PvP focused end game.
Not trying to instigate another argument, but for a great many of us, in Diablo I and II, PvP was our main and only focus, PvE was simply a means to an end (as the OP eloquently stated) and we farmed our items through simply to improve our success in PvP.
This was an amazing feature of diablo and we only wish it to be expanded upon and adopted lovingly by blizzard. And I feel like the removal of open world PvP, and the refusal to seperately balance PvP from PvE is an attack on our Diablo culture as a whole.
Please try and understand, we know you don't want PvE messed up, but don't use that as an excuse to attack our interests as well
Ya these PvE only kids are really starting to get on my nerves, they somehow forget that PvP existed in d1 and d2, just because they didnt participate doesnt mean that it did not exist. it also does not mean because you never did it, that it's a minority voice.
The balance will be fine, it wont affect their gameplay at all, Wilson has stated that this game is balanced for the PvE, not for the PvP, and the PvP community accepts this. What they dont accept is no pvp at launch. That's a fucking disgrace.
if all these PvE kids, are not going to participate in pvp, and by participate i guess i should say... 100 matches in the first year of d3, that would be a very casual participation in pvp, why are they all screaming about shit that does not involve them?
games balanced for PvE? We want our pvp features which dont harm their gameplay at all?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
This really boils down to a simple truth; There are two very different ways of approaching the game, and the community is pretty split on this point.
- One side only views the game as PvE only, with very limited, casual, pvp. And it seems directly opposed to anything that even resembles an attempt to understand the PvP community's wishes.
- And obviously the other side feels that the game needs to have a very deep and fundamental PvP focus, and most likely comes from a rich tradition in many many games (including both Diablo I and Diablo II) that allowed open world PvP, and a PvP focused end game.
Not trying to instigate another argument, but for a great many of us, in Diablo I and II, PvP was our main and only focus, PvE was simply a means to an end (as the OP eloquently stated) and we farmed our items through simply to improve our success in PvP.
This was an amazing feature of diablo and we only wish it to be expanded upon and adopted lovingly by blizzard. And I feel like the removal of open world PvP, and the refusal to seperately balance PvP from PvE is an attack on our Diablo culture as a whole.
Please try and understand, we know you don't want PvE messed up, but don't use that as an excuse to attack our interests as well
Ya these PvE only kids are really starting to get on my nerves, they somehow forget that PvP existed in d1 and d2, just because they didnt participate doesnt mean that it did not exist. it also does not mean because you never did it, that it's a minority voice.
The balance will be fine, it wont affect their gameplay at all, Wilson has stated that this game is balanced for the PvE, not for the PvP, and the PvP community accepts this. What they dont accept is no pvp at launch. That's a fucking disgrace.
if all these PvE kids, are not going to participate in pvp, and by participate i guess i should say... 100 matches in the first year of d3, that would be a very casual participation in pvp, why are they all screaming about shit that does not involve them?
games balanced for PvE? We want our pvp features which dont harm their gameplay at all?
I bet it makes you feel awfully special to call everyone who supports PvE a kid. Because everyone is so inferior to Mac_an_tSaoir if they have different game play tastes.
This really boils down to a simple truth; There are two very different ways of approaching the game, and the community is pretty split on this point.
- One side only views the game as PvE only, with very limited, casual, pvp. And it seems directly opposed to anything that even resembles an attempt to understand the PvP community's wishes.
- And obviously the other side feels that the game needs to have a very deep and fundamental PvP focus, and most likely comes from a rich tradition in many many games (including both Diablo I and Diablo II) that allowed open world PvP, and a PvP focused end game.
Not trying to instigate another argument, but for a great many of us, in Diablo I and II, PvP was our main and only focus, PvE was simply a means to an end (as the OP eloquently stated) and we farmed our items through simply to improve our success in PvP.
This was an amazing feature of diablo and we only wish it to be expanded upon and adopted lovingly by blizzard. And I feel like the removal of open world PvP, and the refusal to seperately balance PvP from PvE is an attack on our Diablo culture as a whole.
Please try and understand, we know you don't want PvE messed up, but don't use that as an excuse to attack our interests as well
Ya these PvE only kids are really starting to get on my nerves, they somehow forget that PvP existed in d1 and d2, just because they didnt participate doesnt mean that it did not exist. it also does not mean because you never did it, that it's a minority voice.
The balance will be fine, it wont affect their gameplay at all, Wilson has stated that this game is balanced for the PvE, not for the PvP, and the PvP community accepts this. What they dont accept is no pvp at launch. That's a fucking disgrace.
if all these PvE kids, are not going to participate in pvp, and by participate i guess i should say... 100 matches in the first year of d3, that would be a very casual participation in pvp, why are they all screaming about shit that does not involve them?
games balanced for PvE? We want our pvp features which dont harm their gameplay at all?
Because most of us "PvE kids" as you call us want PvP. But we want the PvP Blizzard promised, not hardcore stat tracking Epeen boosting PvP that creates a hostile community.
The thing that excited a lot of PvE players to Diablo's PvP was it's emphasis on CASUAL and the fact that stats are hidden. You are right in saying life is a competition; but this is a game.
Go get your Epeen fix in the 100's of other games that offer those features (as most of us do, aka LoL, SC2).
Things would never change if you did not try new things and new philosophies of thinking. The idea of casual PvP is exciting because it hasn't really been done in a strongly supported game. If it's terrible then sure; I'd hang my point on a hook and say bring on stats; but it would be nice to TRY the concept first, before writing it off.
As I have explained in many other posts; try to forget that stats have some bearing on your significance as a human being, your E-peen isn't your real penis. You aren't going to shrivel up and die just because you don't know if you are 200 places higher on the leader boards than someone else.
Now I agree more options would be nice (maybe world PvP for those that really want it, joining with mates etc).
So then have an option to hide it for those who are afraid to have a bad rating shown? You dont have to feel embarrassed, those who hit the 2000's of MMR/PSR can have what they want, since casuals wont get there anyways. Both sides win.
Will you ever fight someone of that high rank, assuming the blizz MMR/PSR system they implement works, no. Will you ever talk to that person, outside of trading, or asking for advice? no.
The only way you would meet them to get flamed for being bad, is if you joined a team that has a higher MMR, or they joined a low MMR team, and you have a midball ranking (1400-1600 ish). Thats the only time you would have to deal with us "epeen warriors".
Also teams are balanced around a collective rating, if someone lies about their rating, you can join a team with a lower rating, play against lower ranked players, and if you lose, dear god the rating drop.
in order to have group PvP, you need to know the stats of others. Basics here...
And that is 100% fine.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
bet it makes you feel awfully special to call everyone who supports PvE a kid. Because everyone is so inferior to Mac_an_tSaoir if they have different game play tastes.
Everyone supports PvE, because you need to pve to level, the ones that dont support pvp, are the kids.
you either support both, or you're a kid. I support both. I would never wish one to harm the other, and there are dozens of ways for that to never happen. I support anyones right to play, as I have in any game. You want to pve, do it. You want to pvp, do it. Want to sit in town and play a casino game on your character, do it.
idgaf. I give a fuck when people suggest things to harm one environment or the other. Displayed rating has never hurt anyone. Stat tracking has always existed, and is used, as well as replays, as a form of improvement. If you get flamed by some one who has double your rating? Ignore and report?
Taking away stats is NOT going to prevent this "epeen rage" people refer to, it will not prevent or deter it. Removing it will harm people who actually give a shit about PvP and want to track their rating, their position, their gameplay.
are pvp players asking much for having a rating displayed, which exists already? nope. Not like were asking for replays, a pause system, in game voip, or things like dotatv. We dont want esports support, we want the basics.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
The main difference I see between world PvP and arena is that world PvP can happen spontaneously, without planning, in the middle of your PvE session. Assuming consent from both parties of course, this spontaneity can be convenient and fun, like it was in D2.
Not sure how exactly arena will work, but the fact that you have to exit your current game, and "queue up" for arena kind of takes you out of the rhythm. It kind of separates PvE and PvP into two different games.
Look at other games as evidence, as soon as any kind of global public rankings are involved, people instantly become more hostile. LoL and other games are prime examples.
People become hostile based on competition, immaturity, and hiding behind a computer screen (anonymity). find me one psychological study that shows that stat tracking increases hostility amongst gamers, over those that dont. Go ahead, try to find one. Ill wait here till then. You can inbox me it when you find it.
I don't mind a PRIVATE ranking, but why do you need it to be public; if you are looking for a team and someone says *I have 2200 ranking* and you want proof, either play a match with them or ask them to screen shot it for you or whatever. If everyone is forced private, then you remove the stigma of those that want to hide it.
an amateur with under an 1 experience using photoshop can fake this. It has happened before. Stigma? REPORT THEM. THEY GO BYEBYE. YOU CAN NOT FLAME. Blizz does not give a fuck who you are, they will swing the ban hammer at you with force.
You won't admit it, but you know as well as I do that people will use anything to be hostile. Say I beat someone who thinks they are good, but I have my ranking hidden, they will inspect me, then start typing crap like *F'K'N CHEAP NEWB, L2P, HIDING STATS? DATS CUZ U SCRUB PRICK*...
makes no sense? If they want to be hostile, they will just say you're bad based on your performance, which you cant hide.
I honestly sincerely do not see how this kind of attitude which is proven to be a driection relation to stat-tracking based games does anyone any good for something that is supposed to be played for recreation purposes?
because anyone who wants to excel at what they find fun, will use these tools? If playing the game for fun, is fun for you? go for it. Realize there are hundreds of thousands of serious pvp gamers out there. Every game is for recreational purposes.
I don't mind private rankings as you said, they keep you playing against people you should be. I just don't understand why you need to know where you are. If your matches are fair why does it matter? My reason for not wanting it is stated above, it creates a negative environment and I'd like ONE.. (AS IN 1... JUST ONE!!!) game to try NOT showing stats. Is that really too much to ask?
Real PvP players like to track their shit.. sorryy... it helps to know where they can improve. I track my dota stats, look back at my replays, etc. It's what i do for fun. To dominate harder you need to learn and evolve. Stat tracking and replays help this. I can look at where i missed last hits, why I did, what I fucked up in team fights, ganking, warding and counter warding etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
And that's why this game won't be for you. Get your competitive PvP fix somewhere else (as you apparently already do, so I don't see the problem).
Maka, see this is something that many of us are very angry about. THIS casual only mentality is different from what diablo is supposed to be.
Competitiveness is very important, I don't care if you have casual options to, that's all well and great, you should have the ability to PvP casually if you want to, but that doens't mean you need to FORCE players not to compete with each other and be able to monitor it with a ranking system.
It really is a fundamental part of what drives PvP and gives it that passion to improve, and creates that depth that is so badly needed. Casual is all fine and well, but for lots of players, we need that competitiveness, and you shouldn't be on the side of denying them that.
I played a lot of duel games in D2, and it was all on the blood moor. And it was annoying - people would use potions, run back to town to avoid dying, kill each other before they retrieved their corpse, spam firewalls right in front of the town gate, and the list goes on. It was fun, too, but unless everyone followed the same unspoken rules, it was pretty easy for a few people to ruin the whole game.
I can understand that with the arenas you lose a little freedom, like wagering items or gold, or playing 3v1, or playing with level 80s when you're a level 50. I think that part of what made PvP (and I'm just talking about the duel games, here) in Diablo 2 a lot of fun was that it was just totally unpredictable. Some people made teams, some didn't. People came in with characters with all different levels. Ears were all over the place.
With the competitiveness that people are talking about, I think I get it, but I don't think that a ladder ranking system would really do the same thing. What I remember is that in each duel game, everyone was trying to rule the game, and there was usually one person or a few people who came out on top over everyone else. It felt cool to be in a game and feel like no one could touch you, but it definitely wasn't challenging all the time. I think that the arena matchmaking system will definitely allow for more casual play for those who aren't super-invested in PvP, while also lumping together all the people who are.
It's pretty clear at this point that Blizzard is not going to include hostility in the PvM mode of the game. I think that if you like the PvP in D2, you really just have to stick with D2. It's either that or accept that PvP in D3 will be a little different - it might not necessarily be a bad thing.
So, I've still not seen ANYONE post a reason why statistics need to be public. Those that want statistics keep saying they want them to track their own progress. Personal stats are something that I and others like me are perfectly fine with. If any of you PvP focused players (note, I'm not using insults) can explain WHY public stats are needed for you to enjoy the game, I'd love to hear it.
Just because the game has more of a focus to casual gaming does not mean you cannot compete. You'll race friends and strangers to get to lvl 60 first, have more PvP wins, get better gear, do MF runs faster, etc. There will be competition, to say otherwise is just silly.
However, Blizzard has stated quite specifically that they are not looking at a highly competitive environment for PvP. This has been stated and the topic beaten to death. World PvP doesn't foster anything beneficial over arena really (other then benefiting griefers). I could see them adding an in-world arena where players could go and be flagged for PvP. This would allow them to duel with their own rules, while keeping it separate.
Team vs Team will likely be added to Arena. Duels will likely be added to Arena. What else do you need for it to be 'fun'?
Blizzard isn't neglecting PvP, they are just not copying Diablo 2 and calling it a new game. Instead, they are taking the time to implement an integrated system for PvP that separates it from the core design of the game...PvM.
It's not like it'd take that many resources to add a "duel" or "spar" feature, where there is a mutual agreement between players and a countdown. I've already accepted that diablo 3 isn't a pvp focused game. I've already experienced what *most* people can, and can not tolerate in terms of pvp in an RPG and it's quite sad, so I've given up on it despite my heart of hearts wishing we still could *organize* group pvp vs specific teams/players. I doubt you'll be able to 1v1 in an arena, for instance. I wonder if there will even be a 2v2.
I mean people couldn't even hack having their win/lose rate shown in sc2. Only a few % of all players get to see it in masters and in GM, because it scares them too much to have a precise record. Personally I would have preferred individual match records vs each race and league etc.
Then there's the fact that itemized pvp, especially with each new skill/level cap/item will chance the balance, even if they were to manage balancing it after launch, with future patches it'd change each time just like it has in wow, and people would roll the Flavor of the Month class/team comps with the cookie cutter items and lololol to victory.
I really have given up on the idea of competitive or even grief-like pvp in d3, because of my experience in wow, despite having trod all over gladiator and duelist every season I cared to try, despite the 2-3 years of world pvp and early on battlegrounds I wreaked havoc in, because I've seen what it turns into when you throw 5 million crybabies and the above points into the mix.
It's not like it'd take that many resources to add a "duel" or "spar" feature, where there is a mutual agreement between players and a countdown. I've already accepted that diablo 3 isn't a pvp focused game. I've already experienced what *most* people can, and can not tolerate in terms of pvp in an RPG and it's quite sad, so I've given up on it despite my heart of hearts wishing we still could *organize* group pvp vs specific teams/players. I doubt you'll be able to 1v1 in an arena, for instance. I wonder if there will even be a 2v2.
I mean people couldn't even hack having their win/lose rate shown in sc2. Only a few % of all players get to see it in masters and in GM, because it scares them too much to have a precise record. Personally I would have preferred individual match records vs each race and league etc.
Then there's the fact that itemized pvp, especially with each new skill/level cap/item will chance the balance, even if they were to manage balancing it after launch, with future patches it'd change each time just like it has in wow, and people would roll the Flavor of the Month class/team comps with the cookie cutter items and lololol to victory.
I really have given up on the idea of competitive or even grief-like pvp in d3, because of my experience in wow, despite having trod all over gladiator and duelist every season I cared to try, despite the 2-3 years of world pvp and early on battlegrounds I wreaked havoc in, because I've seen what it turns into when you throw 5 million crybabies and the above points into the mix.
A mid-game duel option would be ruining the fun of the other two people in the game while they wait for the duel to finish. Not a wise option to be honest. The game is designed in such a way that you need 3-4 players to beat some of the monster pulls if you have 4 people in the game. This means that if you want to duel me in a public game, we hold up everyone else in order to kill each other.
No, Arena is the best place for PvP in Diablo 3. The game was tuned around PvM and the only place for PvP to fit in at this point is a separate Arena. I don't really see how you could possibly think otherwise, either.
I love how you insult those that don't want gief-PvP by calling them crybabies. Yet, it seems like the PvP crowd are the ones complaining. The PvM crowd here seems to only attempt to explain WHY your desires for PvP would be BAD for the game. This isn't a game that is designed around PvP. Its not supposed to have competitively balanced PvP with a ton of statistics and PvP features. This is a single player online game that gives you the option to play through or trade with other players. As an added BONUS they are adding a integrated Arena system that will offer matchmaking and tweaks to balance some abilities towards PvP. Despite getting a full PvP system in a PvM focused game, we still see a ton of complaints from PvP people...but us PvM players are the crybabies?
I haven't posted insults, used derogatory terms, etc...why must the other side use them? Could you perhaps try to give a good reason why your desired PvP features would be good for a PvM focused game and it's community?
Except at this point I really couldn't care about pvp in diablo 3. I have other games that make more sense to play for those times I would like to go all out. You can't be serious when you talk about dueling distracting from monster slaying in public games. First off it takes two, second if you're going to bother joining a quest/public game you probably won't stand around town spamming duels, and even if you do feel like a douche and want to waste a spot in other peoples game, they should (eventually) add a way to kick useless players by vote from games. I thought I read somewhere that kicking players is in the works. So assuming the "community" has power what kind of person they do or do not play with, I really don't understand how it could possibly be an issue.
The only thing I really want in the game that we aren't being given now, in terms of pvp, is consensual /duel so that I have a way to dick around with my friends/family when we are bored.
And please don't take my calling out a generous fraction of wow players crybabies as a personal attack against anyone in this thread lol. Common now >:]
A mid-game duel option would be ruining the fun of the other two people in the game while they wait for the duel to finish. Not a wise option to be honest. The game is designed in such a way that you need 3-4 players to beat some of the monster pulls if you have 4 people in the game. This means that if you want to duel me in a public game, we hold up everyone else in order to kill each other.
No, Arena is the best place for PvP in Diablo 3. The game was tuned around PvM and the only place for PvP to fit in at this point is a separate Arena. I don't really see how you could possibly think otherwise, either.
I love how you insult those that don't want gief-PvP by calling them crybabies. Yet, it seems like the PvP crowd are the ones complaining. The PvM crowd here seems to only attempt to explain WHY your desires for PvP would be BAD for the game. This isn't a game that is designed around PvP. Its not supposed to have competitively balanced PvP with a ton of statistics and PvP features. This is a single player online game that gives you the option to play through or trade with other players. As an added BONUS they are adding a integrated Arena system that will offer matchmaking and tweaks to balance some abilities towards PvP. Despite getting a full PvP system in a PvM focused game, we still see a ton of complaints from PvP people...but us PvM players are the crybabies?
I haven't posted insults, used derogatory terms, etc...why must the other side use them? Could you perhaps try to give a good reason why your desired PvP features would be good for a PvM focused game and it's community?
I love those threads that tells me what I was enjoying in Diablo 2, and how I felt about the PvE in that game. I would never know before reading those topics.
It's like playing League of Legends and CoD:MW3. I never know my sexual preference before I join those games and get told that I am gay. I am so happy that they can inform me of that.
Those threads that tells you indeed. You're not the only one who can trololol.
Except at this point I really couldn't care about pvp in diablo 3. I have other games that make more sense to play for those times I would like to go all out. You can't be serious when you talk about dueling distracting from monster slaying in public games. First off it takes two, second if you're going to bother joining a quest/public game you probably won't stand around town spamming duels, and even if you do feel like a douche and want to waste a spot in other peoples game, they should (eventually) add a way to kick useless players by vote from games. I thought I read somewhere that kicking players is in the works. So assuming the "community" has power what kind of person they do or do not play with, I really don't understand how it could possibly be an issue.
The only thing I really want in the game that we aren't being given now, in terms of pvp, is consensual /duel so that I have a way to dick around with my friends/family when we are bored.
And please don't take my calling out a generous fraction of wow players crybabies as a personal attack against anyone in this thread lol. Common now >:]
If you're not going to join public games to duel. Then why do you need in-world duels at all? Its very likely that Arena will have team vs team and duels. This means you could very easily duel your friends. Why do you need it in-world? What benefit does it offer overall? I'm curious as many people have said to bring hostility back, in various ways....or complained that without hostility PvP would suck...but none of them have really explained WHY. They also haven't explained WHY it'd benefit the community as a whole, making it a good idea for Blizzard to actually do.
This may be confusing to those people how they think about world pvp stuff in Diablo 2 and how it will be alike in Diablo 3.. Ok, let's think about it.. When you are playing D2 and someone came by and hostile everyone... Now what happen? Pretty much that everyone S&E to create password game so the idiots cant come hostile cuz its annoying. Very disturbing to continue their progression. Even asking for duel is annoying too! If you want to fight, arena it is then! I like to pvp but I don't like when an ass**** comes hostle and destroys my progression or asking for duel all the time!
I like how this is set up in Diablo 3, better than Diablo 2 world-gayness pvp.
Then there is arena.
This...is Diablo 3 a game primarily focused on PvM. This isn't PoE...so...what relevance does PoE have here?
- One side only views the game as PvE only, with very limited, casual, pvp. And it seems directly opposed to anything that even resembles an attempt to understand the PvP community's wishes.
- And obviously the other side feels that the game needs to have a very deep and fundamental PvP focus, and most likely comes from a rich tradition in many many games (including both Diablo I and Diablo II) that allowed open world PvP, and a PvP focused end game.
Not trying to instigate another argument, but for a great many of us, in Diablo I and II, PvP was our main and only focus, PvE was simply a means to an end (as the OP eloquently stated) and we farmed our items through simply to improve our success in PvP.
This was an amazing feature of diablo and we only wish it to be expanded upon and adopted lovingly by blizzard. And I feel like the removal of open world PvP, and the refusal to seperately balance PvP from PvE is an attack on our Diablo culture as a whole.
Please try and understand, we know you don't want PvE messed up, but don't use that as an excuse to attack our interests as well
Ya these PvE only kids are really starting to get on my nerves, they somehow forget that PvP existed in d1 and d2, just because they didnt participate doesnt mean that it did not exist. it also does not mean because you never did it, that it's a minority voice.
The balance will be fine, it wont affect their gameplay at all, Wilson has stated that this game is balanced for the PvE, not for the PvP, and the PvP community accepts this. What they dont accept is no pvp at launch. That's a fucking disgrace.
if all these PvE kids, are not going to participate in pvp, and by participate i guess i should say... 100 matches in the first year of d3, that would be a very casual participation in pvp, why are they all screaming about shit that does not involve them?
games balanced for PvE? We want our pvp features which dont harm their gameplay at all?
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
I bet it makes you feel awfully special to call everyone who supports PvE a kid. Because everyone is so inferior to Mac_an_tSaoir if they have different game play tastes.
So then have an option to hide it for those who are afraid to have a bad rating shown? You dont have to feel embarrassed, those who hit the 2000's of MMR/PSR can have what they want, since casuals wont get there anyways. Both sides win.
Will you ever fight someone of that high rank, assuming the blizz MMR/PSR system they implement works, no. Will you ever talk to that person, outside of trading, or asking for advice? no.
The only way you would meet them to get flamed for being bad, is if you joined a team that has a higher MMR, or they joined a low MMR team, and you have a midball ranking (1400-1600 ish). Thats the only time you would have to deal with us "epeen warriors".
Also teams are balanced around a collective rating, if someone lies about their rating, you can join a team with a lower rating, play against lower ranked players, and if you lose, dear god the rating drop.
in order to have group PvP, you need to know the stats of others. Basics here...
And that is 100% fine.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Everyone supports PvE, because you need to pve to level, the ones that dont support pvp, are the kids.
you either support both, or you're a kid. I support both. I would never wish one to harm the other, and there are dozens of ways for that to never happen. I support anyones right to play, as I have in any game. You want to pve, do it. You want to pvp, do it. Want to sit in town and play a casino game on your character, do it.
idgaf. I give a fuck when people suggest things to harm one environment or the other. Displayed rating has never hurt anyone. Stat tracking has always existed, and is used, as well as replays, as a form of improvement. If you get flamed by some one who has double your rating? Ignore and report?
Taking away stats is NOT going to prevent this "epeen rage" people refer to, it will not prevent or deter it. Removing it will harm people who actually give a shit about PvP and want to track their rating, their position, their gameplay.
are pvp players asking much for having a rating displayed, which exists already? nope. Not like were asking for replays, a pause system, in game voip, or things like dotatv. We dont want esports support, we want the basics.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
The main difference I see between world PvP and arena is that world PvP can happen spontaneously, without planning, in the middle of your PvE session. Assuming consent from both parties of course, this spontaneity can be convenient and fun, like it was in D2.
Not sure how exactly arena will work, but the fact that you have to exit your current game, and "queue up" for arena kind of takes you out of the rhythm. It kind of separates PvE and PvP into two different games.
People become hostile based on competition, immaturity, and hiding behind a computer screen (anonymity). find me one psychological study that shows that stat tracking increases hostility amongst gamers, over those that dont. Go ahead, try to find one. Ill wait here till then. You can inbox me it when you find it.
an amateur with under an 1 experience using photoshop can fake this. It has happened before. Stigma? REPORT THEM. THEY GO BYEBYE. YOU CAN NOT FLAME. Blizz does not give a fuck who you are, they will swing the ban hammer at you with force.
makes no sense? If they want to be hostile, they will just say you're bad based on your performance, which you cant hide.
because anyone who wants to excel at what they find fun, will use these tools? If playing the game for fun, is fun for you? go for it. Realize there are hundreds of thousands of serious pvp gamers out there. Every game is for recreational purposes.
Real PvP players like to track their shit.. sorryy... it helps to know where they can improve. I track my dota stats, look back at my replays, etc. It's what i do for fun. To dominate harder you need to learn and evolve. Stat tracking and replays help this. I can look at where i missed last hits, why I did, what I fucked up in team fights, ganking, warding and counter warding etc.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Maka, see this is something that many of us are very angry about. THIS casual only mentality is different from what diablo is supposed to be.
Competitiveness is very important, I don't care if you have casual options to, that's all well and great, you should have the ability to PvP casually if you want to, but that doens't mean you need to FORCE players not to compete with each other and be able to monitor it with a ranking system.
It really is a fundamental part of what drives PvP and gives it that passion to improve, and creates that depth that is so badly needed. Casual is all fine and well, but for lots of players, we need that competitiveness, and you shouldn't be on the side of denying them that.
I can understand that with the arenas you lose a little freedom, like wagering items or gold, or playing 3v1, or playing with level 80s when you're a level 50. I think that part of what made PvP (and I'm just talking about the duel games, here) in Diablo 2 a lot of fun was that it was just totally unpredictable. Some people made teams, some didn't. People came in with characters with all different levels. Ears were all over the place.
With the competitiveness that people are talking about, I think I get it, but I don't think that a ladder ranking system would really do the same thing. What I remember is that in each duel game, everyone was trying to rule the game, and there was usually one person or a few people who came out on top over everyone else. It felt cool to be in a game and feel like no one could touch you, but it definitely wasn't challenging all the time. I think that the arena matchmaking system will definitely allow for more casual play for those who aren't super-invested in PvP, while also lumping together all the people who are.
It's pretty clear at this point that Blizzard is not going to include hostility in the PvM mode of the game. I think that if you like the PvP in D2, you really just have to stick with D2. It's either that or accept that PvP in D3 will be a little different - it might not necessarily be a bad thing.
Just because the game has more of a focus to casual gaming does not mean you cannot compete. You'll race friends and strangers to get to lvl 60 first, have more PvP wins, get better gear, do MF runs faster, etc. There will be competition, to say otherwise is just silly.
However, Blizzard has stated quite specifically that they are not looking at a highly competitive environment for PvP. This has been stated and the topic beaten to death. World PvP doesn't foster anything beneficial over arena really (other then benefiting griefers). I could see them adding an in-world arena where players could go and be flagged for PvP. This would allow them to duel with their own rules, while keeping it separate.
Team vs Team will likely be added to Arena. Duels will likely be added to Arena. What else do you need for it to be 'fun'?
Blizzard isn't neglecting PvP, they are just not copying Diablo 2 and calling it a new game. Instead, they are taking the time to implement an integrated system for PvP that separates it from the core design of the game...PvM.
I mean people couldn't even hack having their win/lose rate shown in sc2. Only a few % of all players get to see it in masters and in GM, because it scares them too much to have a precise record. Personally I would have preferred individual match records vs each race and league etc.
Then there's the fact that itemized pvp, especially with each new skill/level cap/item will chance the balance, even if they were to manage balancing it after launch, with future patches it'd change each time just like it has in wow, and people would roll the Flavor of the Month class/team comps with the cookie cutter items and lololol to victory.
I really have given up on the idea of competitive or even grief-like pvp in d3, because of my experience in wow, despite having trod all over gladiator and duelist every season I cared to try, despite the 2-3 years of world pvp and early on battlegrounds I wreaked havoc in, because I've seen what it turns into when you throw 5 million crybabies and the above points into the mix.
A mid-game duel option would be ruining the fun of the other two people in the game while they wait for the duel to finish. Not a wise option to be honest. The game is designed in such a way that you need 3-4 players to beat some of the monster pulls if you have 4 people in the game. This means that if you want to duel me in a public game, we hold up everyone else in order to kill each other.
No, Arena is the best place for PvP in Diablo 3. The game was tuned around PvM and the only place for PvP to fit in at this point is a separate Arena. I don't really see how you could possibly think otherwise, either.
I love how you insult those that don't want gief-PvP by calling them crybabies. Yet, it seems like the PvP crowd are the ones complaining. The PvM crowd here seems to only attempt to explain WHY your desires for PvP would be BAD for the game. This isn't a game that is designed around PvP. Its not supposed to have competitively balanced PvP with a ton of statistics and PvP features. This is a single player online game that gives you the option to play through or trade with other players. As an added BONUS they are adding a integrated Arena system that will offer matchmaking and tweaks to balance some abilities towards PvP. Despite getting a full PvP system in a PvM focused game, we still see a ton of complaints from PvP people...but us PvM players are the crybabies?
I haven't posted insults, used derogatory terms, etc...why must the other side use them? Could you perhaps try to give a good reason why your desired PvP features would be good for a PvM focused game and it's community?
The only thing I really want in the game that we aren't being given now, in terms of pvp, is consensual /duel so that I have a way to dick around with my friends/family when we are bored.
And please don't take my calling out a generous fraction of wow players crybabies as a personal attack against anyone in this thread
Those threads that tells you indeed. You're not the only one who can trololol.
If you're not going to join public games to duel. Then why do you need in-world duels at all? Its very likely that Arena will have team vs team and duels. This means you could very easily duel your friends. Why do you need it in-world? What benefit does it offer overall? I'm curious as many people have said to bring hostility back, in various ways....or complained that without hostility PvP would suck...but none of them have really explained WHY. They also haven't explained WHY it'd benefit the community as a whole, making it a good idea for Blizzard to actually do.
I asked for a source of information that states otherwise somewhere and did not get a response.
I like how this is set up in Diablo 3, better than Diablo 2 world-gayness pvp.
my 5 cent
Seriously guys, who is afraid of /duel. That's beyond sad, I'm sorry.