Thanks for the support buddy! You can be my vice pres.
I do not plan on ever becoming or associating more than necessary with someone like that so I will have to decline that offer and no I never gave support to such as you. Such actions and attitudes are what make the internet such a cesspool of hate and ignorance.
Thanks for the support buddy! You can be my vice pres.
I do not plan on ever becoming or associating more than necessary with someone like that so I will have to decline that offer and no I never gave support to such as you. Such actions and attitudes are what make the internet such a cesspool of hate and ignorance.
Ah it is alright, if you wanted a vacation you just had to ask buddy. You're good for the next 2 weeks. Cya then!
Well, you went against any player controlled options in the arena, you went against any dueling in public games, you ignored fact trading and lore stopping takes more time then dueling, you did a lot more. It is ok though, I forgive you. Koda saved the day.
I went against the type of control that was suggested for Arena because of Blizzards desire to stay away from eSport-related features. I explained myself when I posted as such as well, citing reasons behind my argument.
I went against dueling in public games because they create more negatives then positives. I explained why using the information we have to us as well as past experience with similar games.
I didn't actually ignore trading and lore adding downtime. In fact, I actually explained why they are expected parts of the game that Blizzard has intentionally designed around.
So it seems one again you fail to actually READ and post without actually listening to what I've posted. If you did read what I've posted then how did you get this perception of what I have stated?
Love that. Just fly in here and crack that whip "HEY YOU GET BACK TO THE TOPIC!".
Anywho, I believe much of the conflict here is gone and the conversation has drifted to the new thread, can we get this 1 closed? We go through threads like toilet paper in this section.
I went against the type of control that was suggested for Arena because of Blizzards desire to stay away from eSport-related features. I explained myself when I posted as such as well, citing reasons behind my argument.
I went against dueling in public games because they create more negatives then positives. I explained why using the information we have to us as well as past experience with similar games.
I didn't actually ignore trading and lore adding downtime. In fact, I actually explained why they are expected parts of the game that Blizzard has intentionally designed around.
So it seems one again you fail to actually READ and post without actually listening to what I've posted. If you did read what I've posted then how did you get this perception of what I have stated?
Well in the end, I still feel you are wrong or not seeing full picture relating to the arena customization. Not seeing full picture and inevitable addition of public dueling. Also good job on the trading, I must of missed that in your 90 essays you wrote me.
Well in the end, I still feel you are wrong or not seeing full picture relating to the arena customization. Not seeing full picture and inevitable addition of public dueling. Also good job on the trading, I must of missed that in your 90 essays you wrote me.
I think I see the full picture pretty well, people want options to play the game how they want to play. However, I also see that Blizzard has taken a stance on the direction for their PvP and that is of a more casual nature. In all honesty, Diablo 3 has a similar game model to WoW in a lot of ways.
PvM is designed around instancing quests. You join an instance to accomplish a quest with a team of up to three other players and have the option to continue on after the quest is complete. It resembles WoW instances in a lot of ways and as such parallels can be used to explain why some features would be detrimental based on experience with WoW.
PvP is designed around getting casual players to join in on PvP. This means you need to be able to make games quick and easily without fussing with a ton of options. It needs to be easy to be picked up without a lot of pressure put on the player to excel. Again I'm able to make parallels to WoW with their PvP system. All PvP in WoW is very easy to jump right into. You don't set any options, you just choose the PvP type and jump in. This creates an environment where everyone can feel comfortable with participating.
Now, all that said... I've actually made suggestions for a private Arena mode that let you invite players and choose an Arena with a mode that allows players to essentially make up their own rules. This would allow people to setup their own matches and PvP how they wanted without impacting the overall design of the game.
It seems the issues comes down to you saying the features must be Public game features. The game just really isn't designed around these kind of features existing at all, much less as part of the Public game. As a private game feature though, I can hardly argue against them as they add options, and don't create confusion or harm to those that don't want to use them.
So, I really don't have issues with options if said options are left to private games. Public games should be kept how they are for the most part, however.
Many people here might have played diablo2, but I guess not many people really know pvp in D2 and how good the pvp was in D2. That's why people talking no one cares about pvp. A lot of us actually care, but does Blizzard care? Maybe a little bit, but not very much. Blizzard is turning to a company that mainly focus on making money but not making a good game.
Yes, they can still make games that are better than other companies's product. However, anyone who still hope Blizzard can make a game as good as diablo 2 and starcraft 1 should stop the dream.
I'm sorry when I type this, but it is what it is.
Let's get real for a moment. Diablo has never been about pvp, it's always been about dungeon crawling and fighting hordes of enemies. You want pvp then go play shit of legends, wrath of heroes, and tons and tons of countles pvp soley f2p games instead of paying 65 dollars for pvp.
Let's get real for a moment. Diablo has never been about pvp, it's always been about dungeon crawling and fighting hordes of enemies. You want pvp then go play shit of legends, wrath of heroes, and tons and tons of countles pvp soley f2p games instead of paying 65 dollars for pvp.
Diablo hasn't been about pvp for you, but not only carebears like you play this game.
Diablo hasn't been about pvp for you, but not only carebears like you play this game.
Way to use insults to prove a point. Oh wait...
Sorry, you're very wrong. A vast majority of players did play the game purely to smash monsters. In both D1 & D2 the PvP was an afterthought, tacked on to let people goof off fighting. It did become decently popular in some circles, however, generally those matches consisted of one person going out of town hostile and killing everyone else that came out. It basically creates a situation where unless you were a dick, you generally didn't like the PvP (there was exceptions, of course). Blizzard seeks to change that.
By integrating PvP via an Arena system with matchmaking, Blizzard has made PvP appeal to a wider audience then it appealed to before. In addition to this, by not having hostility they have improved the PvM experience as well. This isn't about taking away PvP or not giving it enough love. Blizzard is giving PvP more love then it EVER got in the previous games, its just not being designed around bullies that want to those less skilled as an ego boost. That is a positive thing, not a negative one.
Let's get real for a moment. Diablo has never been about pvp, it's always been about dungeon crawling and fighting hordes of enemies. You want pvp then go play shit of legends, wrath of heroes, and tons and tons of countles pvp soley f2p games instead of paying 65 dollars for pvp.
Diablo hasn't been about pvp for you, but not only carebears like you play this game.
Way to use insults to prove a point. Oh wait...
Sorry, you're very wrong. A vast majority of players did play the game purely to smash monsters. In both D1 & D2 the PvP was an afterthought, tacked on to let people goof off fighting. It did become decently popular in some circles, however, generally those matches consisted of one person going out of town hostile and killing everyone else that came out. It basically creates a situation where unless you were a dick, you generally didn't like the PvP (there was exceptions, of course). Blizzard seeks to change that.
By integrating PvP via an Arena system with matchmaking, Blizzard has made PvP appeal to a wider audience then it appealed to before. In addition to this, by not having hostility they have improved the PvM experience as well. This isn't about taking away PvP or not giving it enough love. Blizzard is giving PvP more love then it EVER got in the previous games, its just not being designed around bullies that want to those less skilled as an ego boost. That is a positive thing, not a negative one.
These. I am giving some credit to the same old people beating the dead horse that is this PvP debate. They either have no lives and just like to argue or they are holding fast in what they believe in and standing strong.
The PvP debate is really moot until we know what they come up with since its obviously not coming with release. Fact is, Ecutrin is right, PvP is getting way more attention than either of the last two games combined. Hostility was a broken mechanic was one used more for griefing than anything constructive so I am glad that was removed.
Dueling absolutely should be in the game, and I am sure it will be put in the arena. Simply would make no sense for them not to put it in, and I am sure it will be there.
Multiple polls have been done to show the vast majority of players that play Diablo are PvM centered. The PvP crowd is obviously vocal and passionate about it and I think everybody just needs to relax until they release what their system will be. If it was going to be as simple as 4v4 matches and thats it, does anybody actually think it wouldnt have been put in release? The fact they are delaying it a couple months only speaks as a positive for what they plan to do with it.
^I hope you are right. Given the fact that we are being promised an arena perhaps adding more arena functionality for those interested in different forms/modes of pvp would be the best way to go, especially since anything else tends to freak a bunch of people out because it breaks the mental bubble of pvp and pvm existing in two different worlds even if the road to doing so leads to the same result.
Funny thread, PvErs are so single minded. PvPers enjoy both parts of the game, getting the best gear in order to be optimal in PvP. PvErs just hates PvP and dsnt see why it should even be in the game. PvP FTW.
mmm, yes. Blanket statements regarding the entirety of either the pvp or the pvm croud sure do make a lot of sense.
Funny thread, PvErs are so single minded. PvPers enjoy both parts of the game, getting the best gear in order to be optimal in PvP. PvErs just hates PvP and dsnt see why it should even be in the game. PvP FTW.
Assuming all PvMrs are the same is being single-minded. Alot of the players are both PvP and PvM, some just don't care as much as others about how blizzard aren't focusing on PvP. I don't hate PvP, I love it infact I only still play WoW to do arena and battlegrounds, but I also absolutely love the PvM in Diablo, what does that make me and all the other people like me?
It's not a safe thing to assume what people are and what they like, that's what's wrong with half the people in the world.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Many people here might have played diablo2, but I guess not many people really know pvp in D2 and how good the pvp was in D2.
My first pvp experience in D2:
My first HC paladin enters a sewers exp game, I join group, go into sewers, I get insta nuked by a lvl 95 sorc that went hostile while I was entering.
My second "pvp" experience:
I lvl my first sorc to lvl 30ish and wanna start joining Baal runs, I start nuking when I see all jump to town or quit the game. ??? Apparently my sorc is a pker it seems as I'm using Hydras to kill monster, and that spell can be used to pk... sigh...
My third, fourth, fifth... eightyninth.. pvp experience:
I'm in a XXXX game, 7 of us are doing what we are supposed to be doing, the 8th starts spamming a skill that can pk, most of us tp to town or leave the game, the 8th goes hostile and sometimes gets someone killed.
Hostile mechanic thrown out of the game = Best decision ever
Do I mind there being an arena = No
Would I like to be able to duel for fun with my HC char 1 on 1 = Yes
Will I spend 95%+ of my time killing monsters = Yes
Do I think that 95%+ of Blizzard focus should be about the PvM aspect of the game = Yes
Is my way to play D3 the right and only true way to play it = No ofc not you silly trolls... play the way you like, if you can't in this game there are MANY others
Well lets start here:
For your first encounter, that happens. If the sorceress killed you by going to town and hostiling and going back down after you, you had plenty of time to react and go to town.
For the rest of your encounters, they were all due to hacks and glitches which is Blizzard's fault. So your experience is not bad because of the mechanic, it is bad because Blizzard failed to make a secure game.
Yes hostility can be used to grief, yes it can ruin your PvM experience, however I rarely see anyone complaining about that. They all bring up TPPK or other hacks and cry about those like it is hostilities problem, it isn't it is Blizzard not caring about Diablo.
This PvP discussion has become boring... let's talk about.... basketball! Yea, basketball
Like, when kids didn't have a basketball court, and they play on the parking lot, with imagined but nonexistant hoops. And boy do those kids have fun, playing together They can even make up their own rules, and cheat a bit if they feel like it.
Then some day the city council decides its a shame these poor kids are forced to play out on the streets. Plus it's kind of a hassle when cars drive through, who the street is meant for. They decide to give them a basketball court, with actual lines, and proper hoops! Hurray! Most of the kids rejoice and flock to the new basketball court. But some stay behind, and say it's really unfair that they're now forced to play with real hoops, because the imagination hoops were so much cooler and more fun.
The kids having fun playing real games on the real basketball court don't get the guys and girls that stayed behind...
So myeh... I'm kinda in the camp that thinks basketball with real hoops and non self made up rules is more fun then a mcguyvered street game =/
To be honest I don't understand why people hate on pvp so much. Too hard to play against players as opposed to AI? I've heard countless arguments from both sides and to be honest I believe that in the end competitive PvP (esports) is what's going to allow a game to thrive.
For example. When The Burning Crusade for WoW came out, the arena following was HUGE. A lot of general pvp demographic knew the top players and the top teams by name. In the Blizzcon 2008 tournaments there was just as many people watching the 3v3 arena matches as there are people watching the Starcraft/WC3 matches. So what about Blizzcon 2011? You guessed it, small turn-out indeed. WoW still has a tremendous amount of players. But the players are just zombies in that game now. Sure there are die hard PvE guilds with die hard PvE players who only log on during raid hours, but come on, there's a reason why the game is slowly dying despite the creative innovations implemented in the PvE encounters.... BECAUSE THERE IS NO HYPE. There is no venue platform where die hard fans are screaming at the top of their lungs, chanting for their team. PvE brings excitement to an individual, not as a group.
So I ask, please don't turn D3 into a game that's only surviving because of numerous expansions. And please let it survive because of the passion that the players have for the game.
TL;DR: PvP eSports is the way to go; just as watching an NFL game is better than watching people playing Madden against AI's.
I with you on that, I simply don't like the one on one competitive pvp that gets out of hand and ruins it for those who are seriously playing. Team pvp is where it's at.
Whatever you like to think. I'm sure you'll be taking your own little 'vacation' soon enough as well.
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Wise ElderI went against the type of control that was suggested for Arena because of Blizzards desire to stay away from eSport-related features. I explained myself when I posted as such as well, citing reasons behind my argument.
I went against dueling in public games because they create more negatives then positives. I explained why using the information we have to us as well as past experience with similar games.
I didn't actually ignore trading and lore adding downtime. In fact, I actually explained why they are expected parts of the game that Blizzard has intentionally designed around.
So it seems one again you fail to actually READ and post without actually listening to what I've posted. If you did read what I've posted then how did you get this perception of what I have stated?
Anywho, I believe much of the conflict here is gone and the conversation has drifted to the new thread, can we get this 1 closed? We go through threads like toilet paper in this section.
Well in the end, I still feel you are wrong or not seeing full picture relating to the arena customization. Not seeing full picture and inevitable addition of public dueling. Also good job on the trading, I must of missed that in your 90 essays you wrote me.
I think I see the full picture pretty well, people want options to play the game how they want to play. However, I also see that Blizzard has taken a stance on the direction for their PvP and that is of a more casual nature. In all honesty, Diablo 3 has a similar game model to WoW in a lot of ways.
PvM is designed around instancing quests. You join an instance to accomplish a quest with a team of up to three other players and have the option to continue on after the quest is complete. It resembles WoW instances in a lot of ways and as such parallels can be used to explain why some features would be detrimental based on experience with WoW.
PvP is designed around getting casual players to join in on PvP. This means you need to be able to make games quick and easily without fussing with a ton of options. It needs to be easy to be picked up without a lot of pressure put on the player to excel. Again I'm able to make parallels to WoW with their PvP system. All PvP in WoW is very easy to jump right into. You don't set any options, you just choose the PvP type and jump in. This creates an environment where everyone can feel comfortable with participating.
Now, all that said... I've actually made suggestions for a private Arena mode that let you invite players and choose an Arena with a mode that allows players to essentially make up their own rules. This would allow people to setup their own matches and PvP how they wanted without impacting the overall design of the game.
It seems the issues comes down to you saying the features must be Public game features. The game just really isn't designed around these kind of features existing at all, much less as part of the Public game. As a private game feature though, I can hardly argue against them as they add options, and don't create confusion or harm to those that don't want to use them.
So, I really don't have issues with options if said options are left to private games. Public games should be kept how they are for the most part, however.
Yes, they can still make games that are better than other companies's product. However, anyone who still hope Blizzard can make a game as good as diablo 2 and starcraft 1 should stop the dream.
I'm sorry when I type this, but it is what it is.
Way to use insults to prove a point. Oh wait...
Sorry, you're very wrong. A vast majority of players did play the game purely to smash monsters. In both D1 & D2 the PvP was an afterthought, tacked on to let people goof off fighting. It did become decently popular in some circles, however, generally those matches consisted of one person going out of town hostile and killing everyone else that came out. It basically creates a situation where unless you were a dick, you generally didn't like the PvP (there was exceptions, of course). Blizzard seeks to change that.
By integrating PvP via an Arena system with matchmaking, Blizzard has made PvP appeal to a wider audience then it appealed to before. In addition to this, by not having hostility they have improved the PvM experience as well. This isn't about taking away PvP or not giving it enough love. Blizzard is giving PvP more love then it EVER got in the previous games, its just not being designed around bullies that want to those less skilled as an ego boost. That is a positive thing, not a negative one.
These. I am giving some credit to the same old people beating the dead horse that is this PvP debate. They either have no lives and just like to argue or they are holding fast in what they believe in and standing strong.
The PvP debate is really moot until we know what they come up with since its obviously not coming with release. Fact is, Ecutrin is right, PvP is getting way more attention than either of the last two games combined. Hostility was a broken mechanic was one used more for griefing than anything constructive so I am glad that was removed.
Dueling absolutely should be in the game, and I am sure it will be put in the arena. Simply would make no sense for them not to put it in, and I am sure it will be there.
Multiple polls have been done to show the vast majority of players that play Diablo are PvM centered. The PvP crowd is obviously vocal and passionate about it and I think everybody just needs to relax until they release what their system will be. If it was going to be as simple as 4v4 matches and thats it, does anybody actually think it wouldnt have been put in release? The fact they are delaying it a couple months only speaks as a positive for what they plan to do with it.
mmm, yes. Blanket statements regarding the entirety of either the pvp or the pvm croud sure do make a lot of sense.
It's not a safe thing to assume what people are and what they like, that's what's wrong with half the people in the world.
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
For your first encounter, that happens. If the sorceress killed you by going to town and hostiling and going back down after you, you had plenty of time to react and go to town.
For the rest of your encounters, they were all due to hacks and glitches which is Blizzard's fault. So your experience is not bad because of the mechanic, it is bad because Blizzard failed to make a secure game.
Yes hostility can be used to grief, yes it can ruin your PvM experience, however I rarely see anyone complaining about that. They all bring up TPPK or other hacks and cry about those like it is hostilities problem, it isn't it is Blizzard not caring about Diablo.
Like, when kids didn't have a basketball court, and they play on the parking lot, with imagined but nonexistant hoops. And boy do those kids have fun, playing together
Then some day the city council decides its a shame these poor kids are forced to play out on the streets. Plus it's kind of a hassle when cars drive through, who the street is meant for. They decide to give them a basketball court, with actual lines, and proper hoops! Hurray! Most of the kids rejoice and flock to the new basketball court. But some stay behind, and say it's really unfair that they're now forced to play with real hoops, because the imagination hoops were so much cooler and more fun.
The kids having fun playing real games on the real basketball court don't get the guys and girls that stayed behind...
So myeh... I'm kinda in the camp that thinks basketball with real hoops and non self made up rules is more fun then a mcguyvered street game =/
I with you on that, I simply don't like the one on one competitive pvp that gets out of hand and ruins it for those who are seriously playing. Team pvp is where it's at.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ndstad?feature=mhee
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