shoulder pads that are so big tha protect your nipples are definetly not cartoony
I sense the sarcasm. Cartoon graphics are not defined by shoulder pad to nipple contact. Cel-shading is the epitome of cartoon graphics in games. Diablo 3 is on the realistic side of the spectrum. The characters are realistically proportioned, no bold black outlines, physical details such as veins, wrinkles, etc.
why MTV and not some good site like gamespot?!?!
i mean.... MUSIC TV, what the hell.
Because GameSpot isn't really good anymore. They've lost a good chunk of their writing staff and they aren't very consistent. MTV's got connections and quality and they just so happened to focus on what we all want the most.
I'm not being sarcastic, really, I don't like games where you can't see anything except your char. DII was really overdone in this respect.
For its time, the darkness doesn't really convey the proper dramatic effect. I'm trying to hold back my suggestions. Shoot, if I wasn't already studying to be an engineer and the games industry wasn't already saturated with candidates, I would take that route. I would take the audio to a whole new level though. I think I might create a new thread for arm chair game designers.
Judging from Equinox's screenshot, it looks like there is that darkness radius. However, I think Blizzard really wants to show off the environments. And they are definitely worth showing, especially things like the destructible walls and the vastness of the dungeons. But you need to be able to see silhouettes at the very least. Similar to how the Siege Breaker can be seen in the dungeon of the gameplay trailer.
Well, I don't exactly agree with this... putting enemies into black patches around my character when it's totally unrealistic makes me think "stupid game design I can't see shit so where am I supposed to throw this fireball".
He meant a dark room, which means shorter range of visibility. Not floating clouds of darkness.
I do kind of miss the light radius design that D2 had. I will say that much. And the torch thing was a good idea. What would be interesting to see is a light radius that is normal at the center, but gets darker towards the edges of the screen. And in order to accentuate this fear of the unknown, the visibility of enemies would be relative to that. Let's say they are on the end of your screen, they're at 100% opacity. You can't see them. But if they move in, the opacity gradually decreases, making them more and more visible.
However, this design would only work in dungeons and not outdoors. Unless it's either midnight or in the middle of the jungle, such as Kurast.
But that's just how I would do it. Not how it would end up. I'm still happy with the product thus far.
dude, you Cant compare an RTS unit with a main character of a RPG
one is abut 30 polygons, the other is about 3000...
also, warcraft is 5-6 years old
I just did. Besides, I'm not even the one who initially started this. I'm simply finishing it by disproving it. Would you rather I compare it to WoW? Besides, one of the selling points of WC3 was that it was an RTS with RPG elements. The question of body proportions lies in artistic style.
im not a fan of it, but in RTS games the units can be bulky and disproprortionated becouse thay are small. RPG is a completely different story. The character is always on the center fo your screen so it has to be detailed and much more cooler becouse you are going to see it for the rest of the game
Oh? What's that? Properly proportioned RTS units?! Say it isn't so!
in warcraft, no one get close like tht to a character for more than 30 seconds, becouse it enough to see if you like it or not...
It's an RTS, not a beauty pageant. I hardly see what this has to do with anything. Also, some people enjoy playing fully zoomed in. I've done it once in a while. Makes everything seem more epic.
Guess what, Jay cant comment on Shit anymore, cuz guess what folks? 2 days ago blizzard posted this job up http://www.blizzard.com/us/jobopp/ Art director LOL.
And guess what folks? Thats pretty much when that article came out as well am i right? PFFFFT!!111 PPffffhhhttt!!
BHAHAHAAA HAHAHA!!! seriously though... :cool: nice try to get a last word in jay before you got fired. Now go work on a hello kitty island expansion pack, thanks. Yeah that's right, I'm that insensitive when someone almost destroys a franchise that I love to play.
Uh, Jay Wilson isn't the art director, tard. Yeah, don't you feel dumb now. The realy art director was Brian Morrisroe. Even so, Blizzard's been extremely staunch about proclaiming that the aren't going to appease you. Jay Wilson is the lead director and he says no.
Quote from "Abaddon" »
I said he was full of it, which he is, his arguments are total shit, your problem if you want to accept anything he tells you. I just said I would respect him more if he just said he likes the Warcraft art style over the "dull" style of the original games which I believe is closer to the truth. All the things he said are perfectly achievable without placing one bright color on another bright color, as I said before his attitude towards contrast seems to be as abysmal as those people who place red writing on a blue background to get attention on websites, yeah they may be two different bright colors but it just makes it harder to read, not easier.
It's not the Warcraft style in the slightest. And last I checked, you haven't stated any criteria that would give us reason to believe you know better than Jay Wilson.
Notice how the body parts are not properly proportioned. The lower halves of his legs and his forearms are humongous. Now explain to me how that is similar to Diablo 3. Oh, also note the grittier and higher detail in the character model of the barbarian and witch doctor, especially in the face.
Look at the detail in the barbarian's arms. Extremely photorealistic. Arthas, on the other hard, looks like a friggin' gundam with a cartoon character's facial details. The motherfucker looks like Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty. By the way, the D3 characters don't seem too colorful either. But I'm going to entertain your ideas. Please tell me what you would recommend to make the game better. After all, you are the one with a degree in art and game design, right?
Quote from "Doppel" »
I have to agree with =Abaddon= above me, i would've disliked Wilson less if he would've actually been honest instead of trying to sell us crap excuses.
I find Jay's explanations to be very legitimate and logical. He hasn't lied to you. So he's not being dishonest.
Quote from SpecialK xm107 »
Didn't read all of this thread... well I read the first couple of pages of people attacking each other... but Wilson did say that they are going to have Acts in the game right? When he was talking about the rainbows...
Is that a confirmation on how the game is gonna be played (instead of open world)? Sorry if this has been discussed/posted before - I missed it if it was. I figured they were gonna do this anyway... I mean it IS Diablo
That has nothing to do with art direction, but yes there will be acts.
Holy shit, 9 pages in 8 hours? Damn, I go to work and you guys go to town on this thread.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
So you accept that shouder pads are too big and unrealistic and the colors in the dungeon arent good?
Way to put words in my mouth. Honestly and with all due respect, I think you're full of....doody. I'm fairly satisfied with the game. There's always room for improvement, but I don't think something as small as torch lighting or...floating pauldrons (I'm sorry, but really? That's such a lame reason) is not going to hurt the quality of the game as much as you're implying.
Those arent really problems as minor as you think. Small changes can affect the game drastically.
Shoulder pads...right. I don't think they're gonna do much for you, buddy. But good luck with that :rolleyes:
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
LOL? It fucking literally applies to a FPS, the rest are anologies, you do understand anologies, right?
I don't think I do either. But if you were talking about analogies, I would totally understand. Just busting your chops.
To address Doppel v. Creeps: Slightly hindering the player's ability to succeed is part of the game design philosophy. Giving players a challenge is what makes a game feel worthwhile. It's human to feel more satisfied after overcoming a greater challenge. It's why many game designers offer different difficulties for those who want a tougher time. That being said, completely depriving them of their ability to act effectively is not logical. I don't think anyone was advocating putting proverbial blindfolds on players.
Quote from "ExGhoul" »
Green is naturally a eerie color. Pink is not. It's why hospitals and other places such as morgues in movies enhance the florescent lights on set. You have to be dumb not to realize the aesthetic difference that green gives compared to pink from an audiences perspective LOL :rolleyes:
It's all relative. In the context of Diablo, green may be more readily associated with poison as it is a common gameplay element. For reference, green connotes nature or jealousy in general psychology. However, pink is generally associated with love and romance. This has been brought to you by about.com, in the article about color psychology.
Quote from "LarryNC" »
I agree 110% with Blizzard on this, and I believe they will deliver a game that will satisfy everyone!
You're a tool.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
Then you are delusional.
You're a crybaby.
There, you both can see the errors of your ways. Blizzard's always got room for improvement on the game. Problem is, who is to say that they've got the better idea? In all honesty, I think the torch lighting's a fairly decent idea. But I don't think it's anything to start a petition over. But that doesn't mean we should just bend over and take it from Blizzard willingly.
Yeahyeah, everytime you fail you fall back to what Jay says, smart. Lets all trust what Jay says, he is god.
Well, he's got you by the metaphorical nuts. Also, he knows more about what it takes to design a Diablo game than anyone here. But that's no excuse to simply parrot what someone else says. Not gonna take sides on that argument.
And to those two posters, I think they were like...Abadon and avavent or something like that. You know, the ones that called Jay Wilson pathetic and acted completely outraged at "what he's done to Diablo." I have one thing to say to you. Go fuck yourselves, seriously. You act like he just poisoned your dog or some shit. Or like one of those mothers who blame their kids problems on video games, acting all outraged and shit. And God forbid Blizzard put your cone cells to some fuckin' use! How dare Wilson condone the use of lighting other than torches. Boo-fucking-hoo. Let's delay the game just because you two have your heads up your asses. Jesus tap dancing Christ! Okay, I'm done with that.
I'm not saying they'll look the same. That obviously can't be the case since D3 is 3D. Besides I never said turning down the brightness would result in a downgrade to D2 graphics, or even D1. Then it wouldn't be a logical progression.
Simply put, the main thing I've gotten from this guy is that the shoulder pads are too big and they float and it's too colorful.
The great light from the torches plus the red blood is generally enaugh light and color for a dungeon. Spells and magical beings add to the interest (Or is it interestingness?) and light if there arent enaugh torches etc..
The previous games had light radius, more light sources would disable the need of that and monsters would be easy to detect without the green background.
I'm assuming you prefer the lighting effects of the one photoshopped image where the range of visibility is limited to the open pathways and visibility is blocked by objects. Jay Wilson said they could not duplicate this in their engine. I'd assume that to mean that light does not interface with objects in the same way as characters do. In other words, lighting is not locked into the character, but it is just a circle of light placed on the center of the screen. That's just my speculation though. I could be wrong. All I do know is that he said they could not duplicate the D2 lighting in D3.
Regardless, we know that it is an engine issue, not an art direction issue. That's much more difficult to fix.
\How in the hells are monsters hard to see in dungeons like in the previous games?
They aren't. They contrast starkly against the environment.
And also the dungeons in the previous Diablo games werent boring at all. Even in the first game, the environment changed once you passed a few levels even though it never got colorful. Except the fire/lava in some levels of course.
Turn down the brightness settings. Problem solved.
With changes in the architecture, monsters and decoration (blood and corpses), the dungeons always stay interesting.
If you can't see the shit in the darkness, how the hell does that make it enjoyable? That's what Blizzard is trying to tell all of us.
And with a quality lighting, you can easily see all the different monsters without having to make the background green and the monsters in some different colors.
What are you talking about? You're basically saying we can see while still being deprived of decent lighting. If everything is dark, nothing contrasts. Nothing stands out. It's confusing. And it's not enjoyable. And the Blizzard team has testified to that.
My assistant manager has told people to "Get the hell out of my store, Sir." all the time. It's really quite funny.
Oh, and we are making twice as much as we used to three months ago.
EDIT!!! My manager called my assistant a "BASTARD" before in the middle of the store. And we make 2 grand a day. For a small store, thats pretty good....
Edit again. No, I'm not telling anyone where I work. You fuckers would end up breaking in and stealing shit...
I make a hundred a night as a food runner at some Japanese restaurant. But after football season, I'll be a waiter and I'll make 200. Rolling in the dough son. Honda 600 CBR here I come.
By the way, are you saying that the profits you reel in a day are $2000 or are you saying that you, personally, make $2000 a day?
Quote from "Veritech" »
He also likes to quote wikipedia in an attempt to prove his point, but if he had actually gone to college he would understand that wikipedia is a bad source for ANYTHING because if so many people agree the moon is made of cheese, the entry says the moon is made of cheese. If he spent actually two minutes in google instead of quoting a wikipedia entry, he may actually have something intelligent to post one day.
Correction, if he had actually gone to any form of school in which classes might assign research papers. I'd say around a middle school education is what he/she might be lacking.
You are blindly trusting Blizzard and taking everything they are offering to you.
Gamers gotta fight to get the best of games, not accept everything that game devs throw in front of them.
I don't see how graphics break the game. Especially this game. Blizzard made a good case to justify their decision. Monotony is boring. And those photoshopped images are a testament to that. Besides, I don't see a reason not to trust Blizzard. All the games of their three franchises are best-sellers and have earned numerous awards and praise from the masses. Not only that, but I have personally played each one and I have been thoroughly satisfied with each. You're just knit-picking where no knits need to be picked.
Quote from "WhirlWindBaba" »
wind waker used cell shading... diablo 3 looks like it uses cell shading.. dont know what is look it up. thats what gives the cartoony appearance.
No, this is cell shading.
Watch a D3 video. No bold outlines on the models. They don't resemble cartoon characters in the slightest. In fact, watch the developer walkthrough and when he zooms in on the barbarian, it's extremely photorealistic. You could not be more wrong.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I sense the sarcasm. Cartoon graphics are not defined by shoulder pad to nipple contact. Cel-shading is the epitome of cartoon graphics in games. Diablo 3 is on the realistic side of the spectrum. The characters are realistically proportioned, no bold black outlines, physical details such as veins, wrinkles, etc.
Because GameSpot isn't really good anymore. They've lost a good chunk of their writing staff and they aren't very consistent. MTV's got connections and quality and they just so happened to focus on what we all want the most.
For its time, the darkness doesn't really convey the proper dramatic effect. I'm trying to hold back my suggestions. Shoot, if I wasn't already studying to be an engineer and the games industry wasn't already saturated with candidates, I would take that route. I would take the audio to a whole new level though. I think I might create a new thread for arm chair game designers.
Judging from Equinox's screenshot, it looks like there is that darkness radius. However, I think Blizzard really wants to show off the environments. And they are definitely worth showing, especially things like the destructible walls and the vastness of the dungeons. But you need to be able to see silhouettes at the very least. Similar to how the Siege Breaker can be seen in the dungeon of the gameplay trailer.
He meant a dark room, which means shorter range of visibility. Not floating clouds of darkness.
I do kind of miss the light radius design that D2 had. I will say that much. And the torch thing was a good idea. What would be interesting to see is a light radius that is normal at the center, but gets darker towards the edges of the screen. And in order to accentuate this fear of the unknown, the visibility of enemies would be relative to that. Let's say they are on the end of your screen, they're at 100% opacity. You can't see them. But if they move in, the opacity gradually decreases, making them more and more visible.
However, this design would only work in dungeons and not outdoors. Unless it's either midnight or in the middle of the jungle, such as Kurast.
But that's just how I would do it. Not how it would end up. I'm still happy with the product thus far.
I just did. Besides, I'm not even the one who initially started this. I'm simply finishing it by disproving it. Would you rather I compare it to WoW? Besides, one of the selling points of WC3 was that it was an RTS with RPG elements. The question of body proportions lies in artistic style.
http://se.game-shots.com/images/screenshots/age-of-mythology/age-of-mythology-pc-004.jpg
Oh? What's that? Properly proportioned RTS units?! Say it isn't so!
It's an RTS, not a beauty pageant. I hardly see what this has to do with anything. Also, some people enjoy playing fully zoomed in. I've done it once in a while. Makes everything seem more epic.
Uh, Jay Wilson isn't the art director, tard. Yeah, don't you feel dumb now. The realy art director was Brian Morrisroe. Even so, Blizzard's been extremely staunch about proclaiming that the aren't going to appease you. Jay Wilson is the lead director and he says no.
It's not the Warcraft style in the slightest. And last I checked, you haven't stated any criteria that would give us reason to believe you know better than Jay Wilson.
http://cobweb.ecn.purdue.edu/~theller/eric/images/Arthas.gif
Notice how the body parts are not properly proportioned. The lower halves of his legs and his forearms are humongous. Now explain to me how that is similar to Diablo 3. Oh, also note the grittier and higher detail in the character model of the barbarian and witch doctor, especially in the face.
http://techieweb.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/barb.jpg
http://techieweb.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/witch.jpg
Look at the detail in the barbarian's arms. Extremely photorealistic. Arthas, on the other hard, looks like a friggin' gundam with a cartoon character's facial details. The motherfucker looks like Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty. By the way, the D3 characters don't seem too colorful either. But I'm going to entertain your ideas. Please tell me what you would recommend to make the game better. After all, you are the one with a degree in art and game design, right?
I find Jay's explanations to be very legitimate and logical. He hasn't lied to you. So he's not being dishonest.
That has nothing to do with art direction, but yes there will be acts.
Way to put words in my mouth. Honestly and with all due respect, I think you're full of....doody. I'm fairly satisfied with the game. There's always room for improvement, but I don't think something as small as torch lighting or...floating pauldrons (I'm sorry, but really? That's such a lame reason) is not going to hurt the quality of the game as much as you're implying.
Shoulder pads...right. I don't think they're gonna do much for you, buddy. But good luck with that :rolleyes:
I don't think I do either. But if you were talking about analogies, I would totally understand. Just busting your chops.
To address Doppel v. Creeps: Slightly hindering the player's ability to succeed is part of the game design philosophy. Giving players a challenge is what makes a game feel worthwhile. It's human to feel more satisfied after overcoming a greater challenge. It's why many game designers offer different difficulties for those who want a tougher time. That being said, completely depriving them of their ability to act effectively is not logical. I don't think anyone was advocating putting proverbial blindfolds on players.
It's all relative. In the context of Diablo, green may be more readily associated with poison as it is a common gameplay element. For reference, green connotes nature or jealousy in general psychology. However, pink is generally associated with love and romance. This has been brought to you by about.com, in the article about color psychology.
You're a tool.
You're a crybaby.
There, you both can see the errors of your ways. Blizzard's always got room for improvement on the game. Problem is, who is to say that they've got the better idea? In all honesty, I think the torch lighting's a fairly decent idea. But I don't think it's anything to start a petition over. But that doesn't mean we should just bend over and take it from Blizzard willingly.
Well, he's got you by the metaphorical nuts. Also, he knows more about what it takes to design a Diablo game than anyone here. But that's no excuse to simply parrot what someone else says. Not gonna take sides on that argument.
And to those two posters, I think they were like...Abadon and avavent or something like that. You know, the ones that called Jay Wilson pathetic and acted completely outraged at "what he's done to Diablo." I have one thing to say to you. Go fuck yourselves, seriously. You act like he just poisoned your dog or some shit. Or like one of those mothers who blame their kids problems on video games, acting all outraged and shit. And God forbid Blizzard put your cone cells to some fuckin' use! How dare Wilson condone the use of lighting other than torches. Boo-fucking-hoo. Let's delay the game just because you two have your heads up your asses. Jesus tap dancing Christ! Okay, I'm done with that.
Simply put, the main thing I've gotten from this guy is that the shoulder pads are too big and they float and it's too colorful.
I'm assuming you prefer the lighting effects of the one photoshopped image where the range of visibility is limited to the open pathways and visibility is blocked by objects. Jay Wilson said they could not duplicate this in their engine. I'd assume that to mean that light does not interface with objects in the same way as characters do. In other words, lighting is not locked into the character, but it is just a circle of light placed on the center of the screen. That's just my speculation though. I could be wrong. All I do know is that he said they could not duplicate the D2 lighting in D3.
Regardless, we know that it is an engine issue, not an art direction issue. That's much more difficult to fix.
Turn down the brightness settings. Problem solved.
If you can't see the shit in the darkness, how the hell does that make it enjoyable? That's what Blizzard is trying to tell all of us.
What are you talking about? You're basically saying we can see while still being deprived of decent lighting. If everything is dark, nothing contrasts. Nothing stands out. It's confusing. And it's not enjoyable. And the Blizzard team has testified to that.
By the way, are you saying that the profits you reel in a day are $2000 or are you saying that you, personally, make $2000 a day?
Correction, if he had actually gone to any form of school in which classes might assign research papers. I'd say around a middle school education is what he/she might be lacking.
Doesn't matter. He's still wrong.
I don't see how graphics break the game. Especially this game. Blizzard made a good case to justify their decision. Monotony is boring. And those photoshopped images are a testament to that. Besides, I don't see a reason not to trust Blizzard. All the games of their three franchises are best-sellers and have earned numerous awards and praise from the masses. Not only that, but I have personally played each one and I have been thoroughly satisfied with each. You're just knit-picking where no knits need to be picked.
No, this is cell shading.
Watch a D3 video. No bold outlines on the models. They don't resemble cartoon characters in the slightest. In fact, watch the developer walkthrough and when he zooms in on the barbarian, it's extremely photorealistic. You could not be more wrong.