PvE content is much harder to create and develop, and it should be the main focus. Having said that I simply think that developer support of PvP is exponentially positive on a time-reward basis.
It gives the game -
1. Infinite replay value (enormous for any game - There is no end game in PvP)
2. Larger attraction of player base
3. Adds a new dynamic to the game with many possibilities (there are many different PvP modes that could be added, i.e. "Hoard Mode," CTF, Protect the NPC etc etc.) They could even implement a PvE competition mode that tests speed of players through content. There are simply endless options, and after you get bored of mindlessly killing monsters you won't be complaining that they're available. OPTIONS AREN'T BAD!
The only argument against PvP support would be that it detracts from the PvE game or causes developmental changes in the PvE game due to PvP balance. Both points have been refuted (Jay Wilson has already said there is a "PvP" team and that there is a system in place to seperate PvP and PvE abilities), so really there is absolutely no reason a respectable PvP system shouldn't be implemented at some point. It simply comes down to if the developers are willing to put in the effort.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
They said they can have mechanics like reduced durations and stuff for pvp, not completely different damage numbers
I assume you're referring to Jay Wilson's quote on their "snowy system" which is the system that's already implemented to separate PvP and PvE ability effects when necessary.
What he ACTUALLY said was that it would get "tricky" when tweaking damage numbers. I would think the vast majority of design development would be classified as "tricky." Tricky doesn't mean it can't be done. It just means it might take a little effort. Explain to me what else the "PvP team" is responsible for if not this?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
It's the third time i tell you the reason why they are not making an official visible rank. PvP will be a unpolished modility inside D3. They can't make a rank and say "Cherubdown's team is the #1" if the whole competition systen is broken.
Ranks only works for fair activities. PvP in D3 will not be fair at release. Ranks and victories would problably only means lucky in a paper, stone and scisor game. They don't want people focusing their attention in unpolished parts of the game, like PvP.
Your argument is fallacious. No game has ever been or will be completely "fair." There's always balance issues, exploits, bugs, etc etc. Hell, look at WoW in it's current state. There's still overpowered classes and they can't get it right after 7 years. LOOK AT STARTCRAFT, heralded as one of the most competitive e-sport games worldwide. People are constantly complaining about balance issues there. They can't get it perfect and that's all the game is geared toward. THAT'S FINE. Most of us are not expecting a damn E-Sport. What we are expecting is a dedicated team to cater to our version of fun in Diablo 3. I.e. attempting to balance through the evolution of the game and maintaining a respectable, competitive PvP system that doesn't interfere with PvE.
Is that really too much to ask, and would it really HURT the game? OF course not. It would greatly benefit the game and attract more of a player base.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
There's a pretty simple reason not to make pvp majorly competetive.
Once you put in a system where people are ranked, then you have to work on balance. This game isn't like WoW where you have a pretty finite number of builds or sc2 where you have a finite number of units. This game has in the millions of potential combinations per character. Balancing that would probably take decades of work... and do you REALLY want the game to be delayed to 2042 just so they can put in a solid competetive pvp system? That is of course assuming balancing it would even be POSSIBLE with that many combinations.
not necessarily
but STILL I don't see the problem with balancing a bit
if they notice a build raping too hard in PvP all they have to do is lower their dmg a bit but it's not necesarilly needed
Because Diablo is, was, and always will be primarily a pve game. If you tweak damage down for an ability and break a viable pve build, you're hurting the game.
Also, remember, the fun of Diablo pvp is trying to find those overpowered combos and then seeing what others come up with to counter them. Balancing it is counter to a large core of the fun of diablo pvp.
Did you even bother reading the OP? PvP can be developed COMPLETELY separate from PvE. The system is already implemented to achieve this, according to the lead developer of the D 3. The "PvP has to suck because otherwise PvE will suffer argument is dead. There is no point in rehashing it over and over in every single thread where PvP is mentioned.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
I agree completely 101%. I've been on a crusade on these forums for the past couple of days trying to make those exact points. To push things further, we need a visible ladder system at least, something to make the arena even worth it to be in the game. E-Sport != Competitive. I need that in my signature.
I don't want to insult the guy, but it really amazes me how blindly fanatical he can be when he's basically equating any form of competitive PvP in Diablo 3 to "E-Sports." Like it's some terrifying thing that would destroy the game. Absolutely ludicrous.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
There is so much misinformation garbage floating around the community right now. I'd like to clear the waters and make some very important points about the direction of PvP in Diablo 3
Jay Wilson makes a couple of key points in this interview:
1) E-sports will not be encouraged by the Diablo 3 design team (in fact he made it sound like he would actively thwart any attempts)
2) The system for relegating ability effects for PvP and PvE only is already in place, yet at one point in the interview he says "over his dead body" would he let the PvP game alter design decisions. Funny thing is it wouldn't have to affect PvE whatsoever with a system in place that separates the two completely.
3) A ladder system has already been designed (although they're going out of their way to keep it invisible and un-competitive)
I think a couple of things need to be cleared up.
1) The term "casual" in the context of this interview is apparently synonymous with "non-competitive." It appears to me that Jay Wilson sees no middle ground between Diablo 3 as an E-Sport and having absolutely no ranking system with mindless zerg PvP. Is it just me or does this seem like 2 extremes? Why can't we just have a respectable PvP system without "turning the game into an e-sport?" Why the hell is this guy so adamant about not allowing a competitive scene to take hold in Diablo 3?
2) Again, with a system already in place for relegating PvP and PvE abilities, why is this guy such a crusader against a respectable competitive PvP system? It doesn't have to affect PvE in any way. It could only benefit the game and bring in a broader player base when done correctly.
3) Apparently there is already a match-making system implemented. Why go out of your way to keep it hidden?
Would it really be that difficult to appease the players who desire some competitive PvP flavor alongside their PvE in Diablo 3? Would the game REALLY suffer?
I personally think this guy's prejudice against competitive PvP is insanely ridiculous and unfounded, and that there is absolutely no reason that Diablo 3 can not maintain it's strong PvE basis with some fabulous PvP flavoring included.
I'm just hoping it's not to late for the devs to realize their mistake and allow competitive PvPers the opportunity to enjoy Diablo 3 like everyone else.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
It gives the game -
1. Infinite replay value (enormous for any game - There is no end game in PvP)
2. Larger attraction of player base
3. Adds a new dynamic to the game with many possibilities (there are many different PvP modes that could be added, i.e. "Hoard Mode," CTF, Protect the NPC etc etc.) They could even implement a PvE competition mode that tests speed of players through content. There are simply endless options, and after you get bored of mindlessly killing monsters you won't be complaining that they're available. OPTIONS AREN'T BAD!
The only argument against PvP support would be that it detracts from the PvE game or causes developmental changes in the PvE game due to PvP balance. Both points have been refuted (Jay Wilson has already said there is a "PvP" team and that there is a system in place to seperate PvP and PvE abilities), so really there is absolutely no reason a respectable PvP system shouldn't be implemented at some point. It simply comes down to if the developers are willing to put in the effort.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
I assume you're referring to Jay Wilson's quote on their "snowy system" which is the system that's already implemented to separate PvP and PvE ability effects when necessary.
What he ACTUALLY said was that it would get "tricky" when tweaking damage numbers. I would think the vast majority of design development would be classified as "tricky." Tricky doesn't mean it can't be done. It just means it might take a little effort. Explain to me what else the "PvP team" is responsible for if not this?
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
Your argument is fallacious. No game has ever been or will be completely "fair." There's always balance issues, exploits, bugs, etc etc. Hell, look at WoW in it's current state. There's still overpowered classes and they can't get it right after 7 years. LOOK AT STARTCRAFT, heralded as one of the most competitive e-sport games worldwide. People are constantly complaining about balance issues there. They can't get it perfect and that's all the game is geared toward. THAT'S FINE. Most of us are not expecting a damn E-Sport. What we are expecting is a dedicated team to cater to our version of fun in Diablo 3. I.e. attempting to balance through the evolution of the game and maintaining a respectable, competitive PvP system that doesn't interfere with PvE.
Is that really too much to ask, and would it really HURT the game? OF course not. It would greatly benefit the game and attract more of a player base.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
Did you even bother reading the OP? PvP can be developed COMPLETELY separate from PvE. The system is already implemented to achieve this, according to the lead developer of the D 3. The "PvP has to suck because otherwise PvE will suffer argument is dead. There is no point in rehashing it over and over in every single thread where PvP is mentioned.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
Do it.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
I don't want to insult the guy, but it really amazes me how blindly fanatical he can be when he's basically equating any form of competitive PvP in Diablo 3 to "E-Sports." Like it's some terrifying thing that would destroy the game. Absolutely ludicrous.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
If you haven't already, watch this interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E452S_fJwA&feature=player_embedded
Jay Wilson makes a couple of key points in this interview:
1) E-sports will not be encouraged by the Diablo 3 design team (in fact he made it sound like he would actively thwart any attempts)
2) The system for relegating ability effects for PvP and PvE only is already in place, yet at one point in the interview he says "over his dead body" would he let the PvP game alter design decisions. Funny thing is it wouldn't have to affect PvE whatsoever with a system in place that separates the two completely.
3) A ladder system has already been designed (although they're going out of their way to keep it invisible and un-competitive)
I think a couple of things need to be cleared up.
1) The term "casual" in the context of this interview is apparently synonymous with "non-competitive." It appears to me that Jay Wilson sees no middle ground between Diablo 3 as an E-Sport and having absolutely no ranking system with mindless zerg PvP. Is it just me or does this seem like 2 extremes? Why can't we just have a respectable PvP system without "turning the game into an e-sport?" Why the hell is this guy so adamant about not allowing a competitive scene to take hold in Diablo 3?
2) Again, with a system already in place for relegating PvP and PvE abilities, why is this guy such a crusader against a respectable competitive PvP system? It doesn't have to affect PvE in any way. It could only benefit the game and bring in a broader player base when done correctly.
3) Apparently there is already a match-making system implemented. Why go out of your way to keep it hidden?
Would it really be that difficult to appease the players who desire some competitive PvP flavor alongside their PvE in Diablo 3? Would the game REALLY suffer?
I personally think this guy's prejudice against competitive PvP is insanely ridiculous and unfounded, and that there is absolutely no reason that Diablo 3 can not maintain it's strong PvE basis with some fabulous PvP flavoring included.
I'm just hoping it's not to late for the devs to realize their mistake and allow competitive PvPers the opportunity to enjoy Diablo 3 like everyone else.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.