I think Covetus Shen was Malthael under cover All in all, he said he was looking for a particularly slippery gem/stone, that he already had once - which could be the soulstone. We first met him in Act II, exactly where the black soulstone was found.
Sounds like a stretch, but it would be hilarious to find out your companion was The Death itself all along.
I don't know.. Covetus Shen seemed to have a sense of humour and talks a lot... Malthael seems almost the complete opposite. I don't think he is a good enough actor.
Yeah, that has been hinted alot in the game. Seems more believable and probable. Malthael may seem the complete opposite in character, however it's entirely possible to pretend. He's an aspect of wisdom, so maybe he figured it'd be easier to follow the nephalem and tyrael around and let them do the dirty work.
It's just an idea, but It'd make an interesting plot twist, wouldnt it?
Blizzard doing an unpredictable plot twist... its a stretch for them. They are not exactly the writers for game of thrones...
I think Covetus Shen was Malthael under cover All in all, he said he was looking for a particularly slippery gem/stone, that he already had once - which could be the soulstone. We first met him in Act II, exactly where the black soulstone was found.
Sounds like a stretch, but it would be hilarious to find out your companion was The Death itself all along.
I don't know.. Covetus Shen seemed to have a sense of humour and talks a lot... Malthael seems almost the complete opposite. I don't think he is a good enough actor.
Now, once again, i will ask you guys, what will happen if Malthael successfully traps all aspects, dark and light? Will it result in the creation of a new universe? Malthael became a madmen because of the world stone. He probably found the way to feed his needs. If Malthael was to revive the worldstone or a new universe, this would definitely be something that we could call righteous intents. I believe that Malthael is still haunted by the world stone and all his actions are driven by that. Why Malthael did not appeared earlier in the story? Seems to me like he appeared not long after the black soulstone was retrieved.
I like where you are going with this - especially since Zoltun Kulle made the Soul stone to also capture Angels.
I don't think he went crazy. I mean if he was being philosophical on existence and asking the big questions but he can't answer them just because he is Wisdom and that made him 'crazy' i think that is a stretch. He is Wisdom and I think he has to be the most logical being in existence and would not let emotions get the best of him to make him 'crazy'.
Maybe... he is trying to do what you say and create a new universe. MAYBE that new universe would be for Angels and Demons only and would leave Sanctuary and the Nephalem to exist without Angels or Demons.. 2 universes that could not touch each other...
Genocide of any seems far from a justifiable action that would allow El'Duran to pass through Maltheal.
I guess it comes back to the question of does the ends justify the means...
How does Eldruin justify something as righteous anyway? Does it have a moral standard? If it is it's probably a standard that goes beyond mortal understanding and/or normal convention. Maybe it's a standard biased towards the High Heavens but who knows.
Yeah I agree with you there actually ... otherwise who was the aspect of justice, Tyreal or El'durin..
I think I am thrown off by Josh Mosqueira's interview where he said that Maltheal's actions were justifiable.
But I guess justifiable doesn't exactly mean righteous.
Also.. if Maltheal aim in RoS is to kill all Nephalem I don't understand.
If he wanted to do that then wouldn't he have voted against letting Sanctuary exist when the Angris council decided?
It's because he did not know what to do during the voting hence he was said to have went mad. He reappears now maybe because he finally has an answer.
I was kinda thinking along the same lines. Malthael didn't vote because he was not sure what was the right choice. There was just not enough facts present to him to make up his mind. However, I think he saw how corruptable we were and that the Primes were trying to use us as weapons that he decided to kill us. Makes sense to me. But that's just me.
Sounds like Wisdom suffered from 'Analysis Paralysis'. If he did not have enough facts to make a decision then wouldn't the best thing be to convince the council to all hold off in voting until they learned more about the Nephalem?
Also.. if Maltheal aim in RoS is to kill all Nephalem I don't understand.
If he wanted to do that then wouldn't he have voted against letting Sanctuary exist when the Angris council decided?
It's because he did not know what to do during the voting hence he was said to have went mad. He reappears now maybe because he finally has an answer.
I love your line of thought.
Malthael abstained the vote because Sanctuary and the Nephalem were an anomaly that went beyond his wisdom. He was the aspect of wisdom, and if he voted wrongly it would have tarnished his credibility as wisdom itself. He wanted to be sure so he sought for knowledge that would help him make the right choice; knowledge that drove him seemingly mad. Now, after all this time searching, he has his answer.
It is unclear if the answer is to annihilate the Nephalem, the demons that influence the Nephalem, both the demons and the Nephalem, Sanctuary itself, or something much more. Death, the end of all things, is a means to an answer, though not the only possible means, but a means nonetheless, that can satisfy the problem; the Eternal Conflict.
Genocide of any seems far from a justifiable action that would allow El'Duran to pass through Maltheal.
I guess it comes back to the question of does the ends justify the means...
Also.. if Maltheal aim in RoS is to kill all Nephalem I don't understand.
If he wanted to do that then wouldn't he have voted against letting Sanctuary exist when the Angris council decided?
I am going to go with the idea that I think the prophecy is a crock of shit.. (created by Beliel haha.. just kidding, Beliel sucks at lying)
There is never an End of Days.. time is infinite and the prophecy sounds like it comes from collective simple minds who think time must have a Start and End point.
... That is quite possibly one of the most ignorant things I have seen said about the story, a close runner up to 'lol how can there be a diablo 3 expansion, we killed teh prime eval. Lol like we gonna go to westmark...' Yes, one of the major plot lines of Diablo III is just a 'crock of shit' and is such a bunch of bollocks that they not only referenced it in their commercials and the in-game cinematics, but they even used it to tease the expansion. They even made a tearjerker scene with Leah and Tyrael where Tyrael's sacrifice convinces her to keep working on the Prophecy, a sacrifice he made because he knew humanity was the only hope for the world against the coming darkness, but it's completely worthless and made by a wannabe 'Beliel,' right?
Oh, but I forgot. The prophecies are just 'horoscopes.' Blizzard certainly would never come up with a prophecy that would tell what happens in the story for a Diablo game. Totally not like the ones Metzen wrote up for Diablo II and its teaser trailer, and several major lore groups certainly wouldn't believe in prophecies to the extent of training themselves just to overcome the foreseen threats when the time comes.
...yeah the Beliel comment was sarcastic.
That aside, why can't the prophecy be wrong?
Because it is the main story line... maybe there is a twist...
An ambiguous prophecy describing the End of Days (which is also open to interpretation) has to be true?
Even if I interpret the 'End of Days' to mean the end of the Eternal Conflict.. If the Eternal Conflict Ends.. that does not make the prophecy true just because I have subjectively validated such an ambiguous term..
I am going to be blatantly honest .. a prophecy is like a horoscope.
People are going to interpret the events that have happened as the prophecy being fulfilled. It is subjective validation.. especially since a lot of the lines are a stretch to have been fulfilled.
'wisdom shall be lost' = 'Maltheal isn't around and no-one knows where he is'... really .. 'lost' could mean anything but everyone was 'choosing' to think it means 'absent' (at the time of D3 release), and now after RoS announcement people are choosing to think it means that he was 'lost' to darkness and became Death.
If Maltheal has been the angel of Wisdom for eternity then he better not have some dumb motive to do what he is doing... surely he would have heard about 'the prophesy' too.. surely he should be smarter than everyone...
I am going to go with the idea that I think the prophecy is a crock of shit.. (created by Beliel haha.. just kidding, Beliel sucks at lying)
There is never an End of Days.. time is infinite and the prophecy sounds like it comes from collective simple minds who think time must have a Start and End point.
And, at the End of Days, Wisdom shall be lost
as Justice falls upon the world of men.
Valor shall turn to Wrath
and all Hope will be swallowed by Despair.
Death, at last, shall spread its wings over all
as Fate lies shattered forever.
I feel the prophecy has actually not been fulfilled yet. I will argue that Valor has not turned to Wrath, but instead was consumed by Pride when he ignored help and denounced Tyreal. And Fate, is currently not shattered. Sure he can't see the future of the Nephalem, and I doubt he could see Maltheal falling, but what is the one thing that could cause Fate to be shattered forever? The rise of Tathamet.
Who wrote the Prophecy? Itheral?
The other thing I want to add is that I think it was always highly presumptuous for Tyreal to call himself 'Wisdom'
I think that Maltheal IS STILL WISDOM and at the End of this expansion (RoS) he 'will be lost' and then the prophecy will really begin!
I also think that 'FATE lies shattered forever' will actually refer to Nephalems having free will...
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Blizzard doing an unpredictable plot twist... its a stretch for them. They are not exactly the writers for game of thrones...
I don't know.. Covetus Shen seemed to have a sense of humour and talks a lot... Malthael seems almost the complete opposite. I don't think he is a good enough actor.
I think that him being the Trickster God Zei will be the case for Shen: http://www.diablowiki.net/The_Legend_of_Zei_the_Trickster
I like where you are going with this - especially since Zoltun Kulle made the Soul stone to also capture Angels.
I don't think he went crazy. I mean if he was being philosophical on existence and asking the big questions but he can't answer them just because he is Wisdom and that made him 'crazy' i think that is a stretch. He is Wisdom and I think he has to be the most logical being in existence and would not let emotions get the best of him to make him 'crazy'.
Maybe... he is trying to do what you say and create a new universe. MAYBE that new universe would be for Angels and Demons only and would leave Sanctuary and the Nephalem to exist without Angels or Demons.. 2 universes that could not touch each other...
Yeah I agree with you there actually ... otherwise who was the aspect of justice, Tyreal or El'durin..
I think I am thrown off by Josh Mosqueira's interview where he said that Maltheal's actions were justifiable.
But I guess justifiable doesn't exactly mean righteous.
If he thought the Nephalem could defeat the prime evils then why would he think that he can beat the Nephalem?
Sounds like Wisdom suffered from 'Analysis Paralysis'. If he did not have enough facts to make a decision then wouldn't the best thing be to convince the council to all hold off in voting until they learned more about the Nephalem?
Genocide of any seems far from a justifiable action that would allow El'Duran to pass through Maltheal.
I guess it comes back to the question of does the ends justify the means...
If he wanted to do that then wouldn't he have voted against letting Sanctuary exist when the Angris council decided?
...yeah the Beliel comment was sarcastic.
That aside, why can't the prophecy be wrong?
Because it is the main story line... maybe there is a twist...
An ambiguous prophecy describing the End of Days (which is also open to interpretation) has to be true?
Even if I interpret the 'End of Days' to mean the end of the Eternal Conflict.. If the Eternal Conflict Ends.. that does not make the prophecy true just because I have subjectively validated such an ambiguous term..
People are going to interpret the events that have happened as the prophecy being fulfilled. It is subjective validation.. especially since a lot of the lines are a stretch to have been fulfilled.
'wisdom shall be lost' = 'Maltheal isn't around and no-one knows where he is'... really .. 'lost' could mean anything but everyone was 'choosing' to think it means 'absent' (at the time of D3 release), and now after RoS announcement people are choosing to think it means that he was 'lost' to darkness and became Death.
If Maltheal has been the angel of Wisdom for eternity then he better not have some dumb motive to do what he is doing... surely he would have heard about 'the prophesy' too.. surely he should be smarter than everyone...
I am going to go with the idea that I think the prophecy is a crock of shit.. (created by Beliel haha.. just kidding, Beliel sucks at lying)
There is never an End of Days.. time is infinite and the prophecy sounds like it comes from collective simple minds who think time must have a Start and End point.
Who wrote the Prophecy? Itheral?
The other thing I want to add is that I think it was always highly presumptuous for Tyreal to call himself 'Wisdom'
I think that Maltheal IS STILL WISDOM and at the End of this expansion (RoS) he 'will be lost' and then the prophecy will really begin!
I also think that 'FATE lies shattered forever' will actually refer to Nephalems having free will...