Online requirement is to encourage people to play together (regardless of the loot/trading situation), and to prevent hacks/piracy.
That's what they keep telling us. I don't buy it.
Ok, enlighten me. What's your theory?
The only purpose of having ONLY online mode is to enforce DRM. I just don't buy the other reasons you mentioned. Blizzard shouldn't care for hacks in singleplayer or local multiplayer games. I personally don't care that there is no offline play, because I use to play everything online anyway, but the reasons behind the missing offline option are obvious to me.
First of all, I said piracy. DRM is way to fight piracy. (Arguably not the best way, but that's another discussion). Second, they absolutely should care about hacks in any area of the game. And opening up the server-side code to make offline possible would only make it easier to hack the online version of the game, this has been discussed to death already.
so RoS endgame will be self found only , but they still wont give us offline mode ... whats the point of online only if we are playing self found only ....
To make self found only they will probably boost the drop rates to become like the console version one, which will make the game really casual , and we gonna have online only console version for PC ...
GJ blizz
Online requirement is to encourage people to play together (regardless of the loot/trading situation), and to prevent hacks/piracy.
@ruksak how would that work with item dropping mechanic?
If you drop an item for a friend, once he picks it up is it "bind on account" from that point onwards? Is that mechanic even possible, from a technical standpoint? And how do you convey that idea or explain to players that's how things work (it's pretty unintuitive imo)? If throwing things on the ground doesn't "bind" them, wouldn't bots and thir party websites still be able to function?
Just a couple doubts that came to mind. I kinda like the premise of the mechanic, though.
They can track whether an item belongs to you or if its up for grabs based on whether you have picked it up yet or not. I'd say its definitely possible to track whether an item is on its "original" account.
So, if you find an item, and then drop it, the next person who picks it up is bound to it.
So, ya, possible from a technical standpoint. Not sure if its viable from a design standpoint.
If I could throw in my 2c on this topic, it's really not about what other people are doing. Other people are using bots, hacks, and account sharing to get ahead of the game, that doesn't mean people feel forced to use those methods just because it's possible.
It's about what is most efficient and effective within the bounds that Blizzard sets for us. If there is an easier way to accomplish something, people will feel the temptation to do it, even if it is less fun or can potentially ruin your experience in the long run, REGARDLESS of what other players are doing. Is it Blizzard's job to enforce or restrict certain styles of play? Only if they want as many people as possible to feel like they had the best experience possible and/or keep people playing the game longer. I think both Blizzard and the players share some responsibility in this matter, but it's not really fair to belittle this issue as though it just comes down to peer pressure.
Also, the comparison with the AH isn't really fair. The reason a lot of people just couldn't resist the AH (even though they wish they could) was because it was right there, in-game, and very easy to use.
Let's take you as an example. You're a self-confessed "user of the AH that wishes he could NOT use it". When it's gone, and if trading is still available, will you go to d2jsp? Will you spam in trade chats all day? Or will you just play the game and occasionally trade with your friends or with some people from DFans?
Also, the AH is currently the only reliable way to get items because droprates are so poor. That's a very different situation from having 2 different, but viable playstyles, especially when you take away the convenience factor.
I don't agree with Maka 100% on this issue, but I also think it's a very subjective gray area. Is it the dev's responsibility to ensure fair play, with an even playing field for everyone? Is it their responsibility to take away options that could, potentially, ruin someone's fun in some cases? That's very, VERY debatable.
But it's still a TERRIBLE mistake to tell us half the story. If this is, indeed, a way to make crafting "better" ... well it should have been announced in full, with that context. The current lack of information other than "hey, shit's gonna be BoA" is major cause for concern for me.
(manufacturers warning: not trying to flame, but to politely argue)
How do you want them to communicate with you?
Travis said this in an interview at Blizzcon and said that this very well may change before they launch. Its something they are exploring.
Whether the intention is to improve crafting or to simply meet their goal to get you to play the game to find items, rather than trading/buying/sharing - they are working on it in the development of the game.
Do you consider that since they didn't announce this with as much pomp and circumstance as something like the AH removal, that might mean they don't intend on keeping it in the game?
Players want more communication from the development team. We got it - they said its something they are thinking about and it might very well change. Now you want them to tell you in a large announcement/definitive way as if its something that they are absolutely doing?
If its something they are thinking about - how do you want them to tell you that, other than to say "its something we are thinking about?"
EDIT: To clarify: I'm not saying that people can't argue against this idea of BoA items - I'm pushing the point that many are taking this as if they said they are absolutely doing this and its a done deal.
In principle, I agree with everything you just said. But this is a pretty major bomb to drop on us as an afterthought in a post-blizzcon interview. It's nice that they are communicating, of course, but this was just sloppy.
Not being able to trade top tier legendary and set items could benefit you from a materials perspective. They've indicated a few times that the Blacksmith is going to have a lot of improvements to crafting. That's potentially the chance to craft great items that of course, would require great materials. So salvaging what you can't use might be something valuable.
Second - trading materials, gold, gems, etc for items in a game with others will probably become completely necessary.
I just burned through my stack of Tomes crafting gloves. I went to the AH and bought a couple thousand more Tomes, because I could. I don't want to WAIT to find them on my own, I will just buy them.
In RoS we will surely need a new Tome equivalent, a Demonic Essence like item, some other Essence from blue/rare items, whatever white items break down into and of course gold. These materials will be NEW in RoS, so we aren't going to have stacks up stacks of them. We will have to find them on our own.
Unless you find a legendary/set item that you don't need and someone in your group does.....
I'd love to see crafting become more useful, more like it was in beta. Hopefully we are seeing the beginnings of that. If we have to sacrifice trading to get a more robust crafting system, I think I'd be OK with that.
miles i dont wanna tell anyone to shut up (who would do this?) just give them a little bit time. there will be a bluepost in the next days for sure i believe. maybe i used the wrong wording to spare my feelings with you, no offense.
To be fair, we gave them a good bit of time while waiting for Blizzcon. As far as itemization info goes, they didn't have much to deliver.
I've thought about it, and here's where I stand, for what it's worth:
I hated trading in D2. And I hated that trading was the only reliable way of getting the best items, because trading was so painful. It was my biggest problem with D2, and the AH solved that problem. If Blizzard isn't going to do something, anything, to replace the AH in D3 (and there's been no indication that they are going to), then I don't see myself doing much trading in D3 outside my circle of friends or people that I happen to be playing with at the time.
So, as long as self-found is becoming a reliable way to play the game, or at least better than it is currently, then I really don't care what they do to trading or binding or any of that. I'm pretty much just going to be playing to find items that benefit me and not worrying about getting items from others or finding items that are "worth" something (because without some kind of market system, how are we supposed to know what something is worth anyway?).
However, BoA on all high-end items would effectively kill off trade as far as the end-game goes, so I don't seem them putting much effort into trade if this change sticks. Which is why I say there's no indication that they are thinking that much about trade.
i've learned about taking things told by blizzard employees too serious. i cant understand how people start ranting on stuff they dont even know about in detail.
That's exactly the point. We want more details. We rant because if we don't like what we see, we want 1 of 3 things:
1. Clarification on exactly what is being changed and why.
2. Blizzard to hear our complaints and consider reversing the change or modifying in a way that makes both parties happy.
3. To yell at the wind and vent our frustration.
It's easy to say that we should just shut up and be happy with the game the way it is but..that's what this forum is for. If you don't want to hear people complain about changes or ask for more information, I'm not sure why you're here.
Btw, what about whites and blues?, are we gonna have some kind of runewords?.
Whites and blues droprates are going way down. You'll see proportionately less of them than you do now. However, you can salvage whites to get components for crafting.
They haven't said anything about runewords.
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First of all, I said piracy. DRM is way to fight piracy. (Arguably not the best way, but that's another discussion). Second, they absolutely should care about hacks in any area of the game. And opening up the server-side code to make offline possible would only make it easier to hack the online version of the game, this has been discussed to death already.
Ok, enlighten me. What's your theory?
Online requirement is to encourage people to play together (regardless of the loot/trading situation), and to prevent hacks/piracy.
They can track whether an item belongs to you or if its up for grabs based on whether you have picked it up yet or not. I'd say its definitely possible to track whether an item is on its "original" account.
So, if you find an item, and then drop it, the next person who picks it up is bound to it.
So, ya, possible from a technical standpoint. Not sure if its viable from a design standpoint.
It's about what is most efficient and effective within the bounds that Blizzard sets for us. If there is an easier way to accomplish something, people will feel the temptation to do it, even if it is less fun or can potentially ruin your experience in the long run, REGARDLESS of what other players are doing. Is it Blizzard's job to enforce or restrict certain styles of play? Only if they want as many people as possible to feel like they had the best experience possible and/or keep people playing the game longer. I think both Blizzard and the players share some responsibility in this matter, but it's not really fair to belittle this issue as though it just comes down to peer pressure.
While I wouldn't be against that, I doubt they will do it because it would only segregate the community even further.
By all means, as long as it doesn't effect droprates for people who can't stand trading that way.
That's the most arrogant statement I've seen you make. Which is saying something.
Also, the AH is currently the only reliable way to get items because droprates are so poor. That's a very different situation from having 2 different, but viable playstyles, especially when you take away the convenience factor.
I don't agree with Maka 100% on this issue, but I also think it's a very subjective gray area. Is it the dev's responsibility to ensure fair play, with an even playing field for everyone? Is it their responsibility to take away options that could, potentially, ruin someone's fun in some cases? That's very, VERY debatable.
In principle, I agree with everything you just said. But this is a pretty major bomb to drop on us as an afterthought in a post-blizzcon interview. It's nice that they are communicating, of course, but this was just sloppy.
I'd love to see crafting become more useful, more like it was in beta. Hopefully we are seeing the beginnings of that. If we have to sacrifice trading to get a more robust crafting system, I think I'd be OK with that.
To be fair, we gave them a good bit of time while waiting for Blizzcon. As far as itemization info goes, they didn't have much to deliver.
No offense taken, btw.
I hated trading in D2. And I hated that trading was the only reliable way of getting the best items, because trading was so painful. It was my biggest problem with D2, and the AH solved that problem. If Blizzard isn't going to do something, anything, to replace the AH in D3 (and there's been no indication that they are going to), then I don't see myself doing much trading in D3 outside my circle of friends or people that I happen to be playing with at the time.
So, as long as self-found is becoming a reliable way to play the game, or at least better than it is currently, then I really don't care what they do to trading or binding or any of that. I'm pretty much just going to be playing to find items that benefit me and not worrying about getting items from others or finding items that are "worth" something (because without some kind of market system, how are we supposed to know what something is worth anyway?).
However, BoA on all high-end items would effectively kill off trade as far as the end-game goes, so I don't seem them putting much effort into trade if this change sticks. Which is why I say there's no indication that they are thinking that much about trade.
That's exactly the point. We want more details. We rant because if we don't like what we see, we want 1 of 3 things:
1. Clarification on exactly what is being changed and why.
2. Blizzard to hear our complaints and consider reversing the change or modifying in a way that makes both parties happy.
3. To yell at the wind and vent our frustration.
It's easy to say that we should just shut up and be happy with the game the way it is but..that's what this forum is for. If you don't want to hear people complain about changes or ask for more information, I'm not sure why you're here.
Whites and blues droprates are going way down. You'll see proportionately less of them than you do now. However, you can salvage whites to get components for crafting.
They haven't said anything about runewords.