You think Blizzard isn't making money off of WoW anymore? You think that 9 million people mean no profits? Zogar, its a subscription game. They want you to subscribe for as long as possible. Hell, If the game only had 400,000 people, it would still make millions a month Thats why they are making 1 expansion a year. Thats why in 3 years, Blizzard will still support WoW. Blizzard will not let it die.
I never said they'd stop supporting WoW (there will probably be expansions 5 years from now), but unless there are new customers, they're going to be looking for a replacement cash cow. That's how business works. You're not making a profit if you're just breaking even all the time, or slowly losing people. Again, WoW may have reached that peak already.
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
Take a look at Sony with EQ. SOE thought that they could make EQ2 and not corrupt their market. They even waited 5 years in between releases. Yet, even with those 5 years, they still corrupted their market and didn't make any profit. Users that wanted to just switched over to EQ2, but the majority just kept playing EQ. EQ, to this day, still has 300k people.
I'd chalk that up to EQ2 being a rather sucky game, and having a lot of problems when it debuted, not to mention the fact that WoW steamrolled them as competition.
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
So you're saying Zogar, that in 6 years inbetween releases, Blizzard will not corrupt their market with a Diablo MMO.
Zogar, 6 years is nothing. Plus, as I have stated, Blizzard is making 1 expansion a year, keeping players, and enticing older players to come back. They are supporting WoW, and they will support it even more, by not corrupting their market, and waiting atleast 8 to 10 years until they create another Fantasy MMORPG.
They're making a new MMO as we speak! That's a fact. It's probably going to come out within the next 2-4 years, not 8-10!
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
However Zogar, in 8 to 10 years from WoW's release, they arn't going back to a fantasy MMO. No, they are going to release a Starcraft MMO. Blizzard will pull the same thing as they did with Warcraft III, and WoW. Introduce players with a vast strategy game, getting them into (or back into) the universe, then when the time is right, they will release a MMO in that universe. Don't expect it to come out as fast as WoW did from War3. Blizzard will take their time, and ensure that they will not have 2 conflicting MMO's going on at the same time.
How do you know they're making a Starcraft MMO? Where's the evidence? I provided a lot of circumstancial evidence for a Diablo MMO, but I seen none for an MMO in any other Blizz game universe.
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
By the time of Starcraft's MMOs release, only the hardcore WoW players will remain, and all the others that have played WoW in the past and have quit, will subscribe to Starcraft MMO.
Uh, no, they won't. They're going to want a fantasy MMO to fulfill the gap in their gaming habits. A Starcraft MMO would appeal to a completely different group of fans.
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
Diablo has always been Blizzards side game. Blizzard is Starcraft and Warcraft. Blizzard North is Diablo. But Blizzard North is no more. So the OG Blizzard guys are trying to continue what Blizzard North did, and continue to satisfy that niche/fan base.
I don't know what you're talking about there. The Diablo franchise is HUGE, and has a very loyal following. The first two were probably the most successful games for Blizzard during that time period, and there's no doubt a new Diablo game will the biggest thing for its time period as well!
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
Blizzard will make D3. And then, maybe 10 years from then, they might come back with a Diablo MMO. But for now, they need Diablo 3. They do not need a Diablo MMO.
What makes you so sure? Blizzard will want to capitalize on the current trends in PC gaming, and a stand alone action RPG won't cut it in today's market. I think Blizz realizes that a new Diablo game not only has to continue the legacy of the past games, but has to blow away all other RPGs on the market, including their own: World of Warcraft. The only way this can be done from a technical, depth, and gameplay point of view is for the next Diablo game to be a next generation MMO.
I know you don't like WoW (why is beyond me seeing as how it is so similar to Diablo II), or MMOs, but that's the future of computer RPG gaming. It's time to start putting a little change aside for that monthly fee, that's all.
Zogar, I hope you read more than just the first post.
Why would they make a Fantasy MMORPG when they already have recently created one.
WoW isn't that recent. It came out 3 years ago, and by the time a new fantasy MMO is created, another 3 years may be gone.
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
That is market corruption.
Now? Yes. In another couple years? No.
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
However, if they made Diablo 3 like Diablo 2. WoWers would buy D3, and still keep their subscription to WoW.
Again, that's assuming the market is exactly as it is now. By the time a Diablo 3 comes out, WoW will likely be dead, and players will be itching for a new fantasy MMO. WoW might be dead right now for all we know; that 9 million players figure has been the same for a long time, and leveled off profits in big business = no profits. In the meantime, ruminate on these facts:
1.) They are making a new MMO.
2.) Most of the job postings for the new project mention Diablo and Diablo II. None mention Starcraft or any other universe.
3.) The MMO market (of which Blizzard is king) is growing. Single player PC games in certain genres, including action RPGs, are fading from the market.
4.) Starcraft II is on its way. Releasing a Starcraft or sci-fi MMO within the next few years would be more of a market over-saturation than releasing a new fantasy MMO. (yes, I know WC3 and WoW came out within short order, but do remember, WoW was an experimental game that Blizzard never dreamed would become such a huge success)
5.) The diablo franchise lends itself more easily to an MMO format than any other Blizzard game universe. Also, Diablo fans are now the only group left awaiting a new game.
Quote from "Sabacca50" »
As for your comments, Pigeon holing classes because of items doesn't appear in Diablo 2. So that idea is more of a WoW suggestion. I look forward to the "more to come..."
Reread what I wrote. I said that bad itemization was a problem WoW had (not Diablo II), and was one of the things they would want to fix for a future MMO. They've already fixed this to some extent in WoW as it is now.
In response to the original post (which seems like a veiled attack on WoW):
It won't have an affect on the new Diablo game at all, and if it does, it will be very positive. They're obviously going to utilize lessons learned from WoW. I'm a subscriber to the idea that the next Diablo game will be an MMO, and is the one Blizzard is currently working on. That's where the money is, and the market for stand alone solo action RPGs are fading. Just look at Hellgate: London's half-assed attempt to milk both markets. Blizzard has already officially confirmed that their next MMO won't be a WoW clone, and you can bet they're going to take into consideration the mistakes they've made with WoW (assuming there are similarities to begin with):
* No more "raid or die" philosophy. Blizzard now realizes that people have a myriad of play styles. Some like to solo quest, some like to PvP, others like to tackle broader strategies, etc.
* Itemization that avoids pigeon-holing classes into specific roles. For example, having gear options for all the aspects of a class, rather than just one (i.e. healing).
* More interaction and consequences with the world.
* More dynamic fighting that gets away from the feeling of grinding. Better AI for the monsters would also fall under this category.
The original post sounds like viral marketing to me (I didn't bother reading the rest of the thread). Anyway, I'm sure Hellgate: London will be a decent game, but it's not going to be a substitute for a new Diablo, at least for me. I want Diablo, not some watered down, sci-fi hybrid of it! I'm sure most Diablo fans would echo my views. I could care less if it was made by the original creators of Diablo. Unlike books, painting, and other forms of media, the actual people and personalites in game design don't mean all that much. The current staff at Blizzard could probably beat the original creators of Diablo at making a new Diablo game. They certainly have the resources and skill to do so, and I think they will.
i dont want to be pessimistic but the Burning Crusade cinematic was shown right with the announcement, just like StarCraft II. Anyway, only a few days left, we'll see in time.
No, it wasn't, it was shown on December 13, 2006, just a mere month before the release of BC.
The video that was released for WotLK was NOT a cinematic, just a trailer using in-game graphics. This exact same thing happened with The Burning Crusade: At first, there was a crappy video trailer featuring in-game footage, then, once the release date was near, they showed the true cinematic. If this pattern is anything to go by (not showing the WoW cinematics until very close to the release date), you can bet that whatever cinematic is being shown at this German convention is NOT going to be WoW related, since I don't see WotLK coming out for at least another six months. Like SC2, D3 warrants its own cinematic many months or even a year in advance.
Again, this isn't proof that they're going to announce D3, it just means that I doubt they would release the true WotLK cinematic this early. Between WotLK and D3, D3 seems the more likely choice for a cinematic at this point (considering what they did with SC2).
The red stuff is actually coming from the Blood Elf chick's shoulder armor. Go to http://www.blizzard.com/blizzcon07/ and check out the larger image on the right of her by herself for proof.
Fake. First, using a proven piece of fan art doesn't help their credibility, then they claim to not be Diablo fans in the first place. Yeah, right. They're just using reverse psychology to make this BS sound more credible. I mean, you'd expect fake reports to come from fans, so by saying they're not fans, they're hoping the report will have a bit more distinction and mystery to it. Secondly, never believe anyone that claims they "know someone". How many times have we heard this before? "My friend's cousin's pest control technician's poolman knows someone who works for Blizzard and they said Diablo III is 10% done!" Gimme a break. The people that are in the industry who work on secret stuff, whether it's upcoming Blizzard games or the latest spy planes DON'T TALK! Period. Finally, the idea that Blizzard needs to wait until SC2 is done before devoting more time and people to it is just not true. With Blizzard being the juggernaut that it is, the production of these games is compartmentalized into separate teams. We've been told this many times from the official sources. Also, if I had to guess, I think the next Diablo game is much further along than 10%, and any guess would have more credibility than the article.
Blizzard makes games not movies. Movie studios have their own crews and departments at their disposal. There's absolutely no reason why they'd need 40 people from Blizzard helping them out.
Guys, the beta key is almost certainly for the next WoW expansion. The same thing happened at the last Blizzcon for the Burning Crusade, and the upcoming second expansion is the only "unannounced" project (Blizzard has only confirmed its existence, no other details have been released - no title, no hints on the content) that could possbily be far enough along for beta key reservations at this point in time. Remember, the schedule they're now shooting for is to have an expansion finished for each year, and spring of 2008 would coincide with the Burning Crusade, and right now would be the perfect time for beta keys.
I predict there will be three big events at the upcoming Blizzcon:
1.) Starcraft II playable demos.
2.) WoW expansion 2 announcement. We'll get a nice overview of the whole thing, with information on new classes, game content, etc, and the beta keys.
3.) Diablo 3 (or Diablo MMO) announcement! No major details will be revealed, but we'll probably see a really awesome intro cinematic and maybe a few shots of the gameplay along with the logo.
d3 can be heavy pvp as long as they dont copy warhammers rvr thing they got going. they dont even need to change the gameplay much just up the graphics, make it hard to cheat (which might require a monthly fee which i am for due to the all the 13 year olds what wont play cuz of it) ... but most of all make it so pvp doesnt last 2 seconds like most games out right now are like.
I totally agree. In fact, I hope the next Diablo game is the new MMO Blizzard is working on simply because they'll be able to stop all the cheaters and hackers. The monthly charge would also be enough of a deterrent to keep most idiots and kiddies away. That's the one good thing about MMOs - since you have to pay to play, most players automatically have a little more devotion to the game, instead of hanging around just to cause trouble. As for RvR, who knows? I'm not necessarily for or against it, however, I don't think a PvP-based Diablo MMO would necessarily require it. You also have to consider what happens when one realm starts winning all the time...bottom line is people don't like to be losers, so you'd probably see a mass exodus from the losing side to the winning side, and the game would then become totally unbalanced. WoW kind of has it right, in that no matter what happens, the consequences of PvP are short lived, fixable and more for fun/character progression. Neither side can completely dominate the other, regardless of numbers or manpower. I know a lot of players don't like this and want capturable towns and stuff that affects the world long term (like Warhammer is offering), but that might not work out. This isn't like reality, where one side has to soldier on, in an MMO, you can just delete your character and roll a new one on the winning side to have more fun (or stop playing all together if re-rolling's not possible). The key is to find a nice balance between PvP consequences and fun for all sides.
i dont really believe Blizzard would make it a pvp oriented MMORPG. It would remind too much of Warhammer Online (which is supposed to be Realm vs Realm - something that would be the only possibility to have as a pvp oriented Diablo game). I think it would be too much of a risk to go there. Especially since Diablo isnt about going on one-on-one combat, but slashing through the hordes of your enemies to defeat their dark masters.
I have no clue what goes on in Blizzard so i cant be sure of anything. But i do believe that they'll keep the next game a single-player title with multiplayer aspects (new battle.net) and if they make an MMORPG in its universe, it will be like a faster paced WoW (gameplay wise) with way darker and bloodier graphics.
We'll see how Warhammer turns out. It's got a lot to live up to, what with all the hype, and claims of it being the "WoW Killer". I, for one, am not holding my breath. Anyway, the reason why I think Blizzard's next MMO might be PvP based is not so much because of the competition with Warhammer (although that's definitely a big part of it), but because the whole massive raids/epic PvE encounters thing involving large groups of players has kind of been done with WoW and previous MMOs. A lot of players, including myself, are not really interested in this, and there's a growing niche market for something different. Blizzard seems to have noticed, as they have said this next MMO will be completely different from WoW. Also, if you're going to go the massive PvE raiding route (like WoW and EQ), it automatically exludes balanced PvP, simply because the classes will then need to be designed with specific jobs in mind, instead of pure damage. Diablo II is essentially already like the PvP-based MMO I'm envisioning here. In fact, you could probably port it directly into a MMO world and be nearly finished. For example, all the classes are damaged based, and all the PvE encounters and item aquistions are soloable. When you said "a faster paced WoW (gameplay wise) with way darker and bloodier graphics", that's exactly what I'm thinking, except with a truly awesome, skill-based PvP aspect thrown in. It's just the details that would have to worked out after that.
I think the article retraction (if it actually was about Diablo 3 in the first place) is a good sign that a Diablo announcement is eminent. It either means Blizzard did not want a speculative article muddying up the waters right before an announcement, or PC Gamer was informed of the reality of the next Diablo game and didn't want to look like morons printing something that would quickly be negated. I mean, how stupid would they look if they printed an article with the title, "What Happened To Diablo III?", when Diablo III is officially announced on the same month?
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I never said they'd stop supporting WoW (there will probably be expansions 5 years from now), but unless there are new customers, they're going to be looking for a replacement cash cow. That's how business works. You're not making a profit if you're just breaking even all the time, or slowly losing people. Again, WoW may have reached that peak already.
I'd chalk that up to EQ2 being a rather sucky game, and having a lot of problems when it debuted, not to mention the fact that WoW steamrolled them as competition.
They're making a new MMO as we speak! That's a fact. It's probably going to come out within the next 2-4 years, not 8-10!
How do you know they're making a Starcraft MMO? Where's the evidence? I provided a lot of circumstancial evidence for a Diablo MMO, but I seen none for an MMO in any other Blizz game universe.
Uh, no, they won't. They're going to want a fantasy MMO to fulfill the gap in their gaming habits. A Starcraft MMO would appeal to a completely different group of fans.
I don't know what you're talking about there. The Diablo franchise is HUGE, and has a very loyal following. The first two were probably the most successful games for Blizzard during that time period, and there's no doubt a new Diablo game will the biggest thing for its time period as well!
What makes you so sure? Blizzard will want to capitalize on the current trends in PC gaming, and a stand alone action RPG won't cut it in today's market. I think Blizz realizes that a new Diablo game not only has to continue the legacy of the past games, but has to blow away all other RPGs on the market, including their own: World of Warcraft. The only way this can be done from a technical, depth, and gameplay point of view is for the next Diablo game to be a next generation MMO.
I know you don't like WoW (why is beyond me seeing as how it is so similar to Diablo II), or MMOs, but that's the future of computer RPG gaming. It's time to start putting a little change aside for that monthly fee, that's all.
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WoW isn't that recent. It came out 3 years ago, and by the time a new fantasy MMO is created, another 3 years may be gone.
Now? Yes. In another couple years? No.
Again, that's assuming the market is exactly as it is now. By the time a Diablo 3 comes out, WoW will likely be dead, and players will be itching for a new fantasy MMO. WoW might be dead right now for all we know; that 9 million players figure has been the same for a long time, and leveled off profits in big business = no profits. In the meantime, ruminate on these facts:
1.) They are making a new MMO.
2.) Most of the job postings for the new project mention Diablo and Diablo II. None mention Starcraft or any other universe.
3.) The MMO market (of which Blizzard is king) is growing. Single player PC games in certain genres, including action RPGs, are fading from the market.
4.) Starcraft II is on its way. Releasing a Starcraft or sci-fi MMO within the next few years would be more of a market over-saturation than releasing a new fantasy MMO. (yes, I know WC3 and WoW came out within short order, but do remember, WoW was an experimental game that Blizzard never dreamed would become such a huge success)
5.) The diablo franchise lends itself more easily to an MMO format than any other Blizzard game universe. Also, Diablo fans are now the only group left awaiting a new game.
Reread what I wrote. I said that bad itemization was a problem WoW had (not Diablo II), and was one of the things they would want to fix for a future MMO. They've already fixed this to some extent in WoW as it is now.
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It won't have an affect on the new Diablo game at all, and if it does, it will be very positive. They're obviously going to utilize lessons learned from WoW. I'm a subscriber to the idea that the next Diablo game will be an MMO, and is the one Blizzard is currently working on. That's where the money is, and the market for stand alone solo action RPGs are fading. Just look at Hellgate: London's half-assed attempt to milk both markets. Blizzard has already officially confirmed that their next MMO won't be a WoW clone, and you can bet they're going to take into consideration the mistakes they've made with WoW (assuming there are similarities to begin with):
* No more "raid or die" philosophy. Blizzard now realizes that people have a myriad of play styles. Some like to solo quest, some like to PvP, others like to tackle broader strategies, etc.
* Itemization that avoids pigeon-holing classes into specific roles. For example, having gear options for all the aspects of a class, rather than just one (i.e. healing).
* More interaction and consequences with the world.
* More dynamic fighting that gets away from the feeling of grinding. Better AI for the monsters would also fall under this category.
more to come....
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No, it wasn't, it was shown on December 13, 2006, just a mere month before the release of BC.
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Again, this isn't proof that they're going to announce D3, it just means that I doubt they would release the true WotLK cinematic this early. Between WotLK and D3, D3 seems the more likely choice for a cinematic at this point (considering what they did with SC2).
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Yes they did. I can't believe all of you have forgotten about this.
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I predict there will be three big events at the upcoming Blizzcon:
1.) Starcraft II playable demos.
2.) WoW expansion 2 announcement. We'll get a nice overview of the whole thing, with information on new classes, game content, etc, and the beta keys.
3.) Diablo 3 (or Diablo MMO) announcement! No major details will be revealed, but we'll probably see a really awesome intro cinematic and maybe a few shots of the gameplay along with the logo.
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I totally agree. In fact, I hope the next Diablo game is the new MMO Blizzard is working on simply because they'll be able to stop all the cheaters and hackers. The monthly charge would also be enough of a deterrent to keep most idiots and kiddies away. That's the one good thing about MMOs - since you have to pay to play, most players automatically have a little more devotion to the game, instead of hanging around just to cause trouble. As for RvR, who knows? I'm not necessarily for or against it, however, I don't think a PvP-based Diablo MMO would necessarily require it. You also have to consider what happens when one realm starts winning all the time...bottom line is people don't like to be losers, so you'd probably see a mass exodus from the losing side to the winning side, and the game would then become totally unbalanced. WoW kind of has it right, in that no matter what happens, the consequences of PvP are short lived, fixable and more for fun/character progression. Neither side can completely dominate the other, regardless of numbers or manpower. I know a lot of players don't like this and want capturable towns and stuff that affects the world long term (like Warhammer is offering), but that might not work out. This isn't like reality, where one side has to soldier on, in an MMO, you can just delete your character and roll a new one on the winning side to have more fun (or stop playing all together if re-rolling's not possible). The key is to find a nice balance between PvP consequences and fun for all sides.
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We'll see how Warhammer turns out. It's got a lot to live up to, what with all the hype, and claims of it being the "WoW Killer". I, for one, am not holding my breath. Anyway, the reason why I think Blizzard's next MMO might be PvP based is not so much because of the competition with Warhammer (although that's definitely a big part of it), but because the whole massive raids/epic PvE encounters thing involving large groups of players has kind of been done with WoW and previous MMOs. A lot of players, including myself, are not really interested in this, and there's a growing niche market for something different. Blizzard seems to have noticed, as they have said this next MMO will be completely different from WoW. Also, if you're going to go the massive PvE raiding route (like WoW and EQ), it automatically exludes balanced PvP, simply because the classes will then need to be designed with specific jobs in mind, instead of pure damage. Diablo II is essentially already like the PvP-based MMO I'm envisioning here. In fact, you could probably port it directly into a MMO world and be nearly finished. For example, all the classes are damaged based, and all the PvE encounters and item aquistions are soloable. When you said "a faster paced WoW (gameplay wise) with way darker and bloodier graphics", that's exactly what I'm thinking, except with a truly awesome, skill-based PvP aspect thrown in. It's just the details that would have to worked out after that.
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