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It was never balanced, when DH's were in the endgame there were only DH's. The most "balanced" season was Season 3 where DH's and Wizards were doing almost the same damage, but one will always outshine mathematicaly, there will never be a balance and diversity in andgame because if people seach for mathematicaly answers there will always be a better combination.

Quote from horrax1»

Quote from fehhlora»

Arcane Orbit is not the only Arcane Orb (OB) rune, Obliteration for example deals 700% weapon damage and 60% skill bonus is multiplicative, but additive with other skill bonus, elemental bonus, etc, but still multiplicative with the base damage. EB has Wand of Woh which is 4 EB but Arcane Orb has the new wand which is 2 AO + 300% from Triumvirate, the math is pretty clear. EB will be an utility skill unless they buff the item as the PTR goes or buff EB base damage a little more.

And of course, we should not forget that AO doesn't have a cooldown, EB does.

EB has only Woh and the new source mandatory. You already listed 2 skills (EB + AO) and 3 items as mandatory. Think about it... and you fire AO (range) with EB (melee) utility skill. I find this very awkward (that's why I only mentioned Arcane Orbit. Also it's the only rune that won't "waste" a cast animation). I like to theorycraft for good synergy and economic item / skill builds.
As I said EB has the addition to utilize CDR on gear. The new Spectral Blade Wand would be possible to include in the build (you already got 3 items locked for Weapon + Source + Cube) and use Spectral Blade as good dmg addition, proc F/R maybe, and so on. Like I said there are many possibilities. But just saying AO is better to use and use EB as utility skill is just a bit weird...
your maths are pretty flawed. You just cannot generalize all dmg multipliers. There are things like CD skill or not , melee or range, animation or not. So many factors to just say EB is bad as a main dmg skill.

I've never said that it should be used with AO, but that EB will not be able to compete damage wise and will turn into an utility skill for Spectral Blade, you are presuming that I've said something that I did not. EB will never be able to compete without the proper multipliers, also because it has a cooldown, AO hasn't. If you want to spam it you will need either Zodiac or a high cooldown reduction, which will result in another damage loss. So no, my math is not flawed, AO has better multipliers, a rune that deals little less damage, the ability to cube a Furnace + CoE and F/N and has NO COOLDOWN. So understand, I'm not saying that people will not use it with Spectral Blade, but thats the point that I'm trying to prove, people will use it with Spectral Blade as an utility skill (so your Spectral Blade can deal more damage and you take less damage), it will not be viable on its own, having its own build.

It seems to me that they are putting all their effort in this patch so they can move to another project next year (maybe an expansion?). It's crazy the ammount of season portraits already datamined.

Quote from RuffRyder26»

Quote from fehhlora»

Quote from RuffRyder26»

Quote from fehhlora»

Quote from horrax1»

you can use Delsere or TR for a 2000% dmg boost to EB. and that 20% seems to be another multiplier. so a 2400% multiplier with this and the set alone. Obviously it's interesting (and to me always was) to mix in arcane orbit, especially with the recent buffs and complementary items. But also this needs to be tested... we always need to Keep in mind that we have only 13 + 3 item Slots and 6 active skills

the damage reduction however is really needed. so we can mess around with either F/R rings or maybe even convention/unity for more toughness (oviously halo in cube and APD either cube or maybe the new shield bracers, too when fitting in some shield skills / passives). Oh well this is already getting to deep into it. but yes, i think this is great not only for EB/Woh builds in general but also for EB being one of the main damage dealers in some specific setup.

AO has the 2000% from Delsere, 300% (or 200%? Can't remember, lol) from Triumvirate, which is multiplicative, 2x explosion, which is double explosion damage + % skill on the wand + the ability to use F/R. So no, 20% multiplicative is not enough to make it worth it. They are bounding us to use EB as a utility skill, not as a damage dealer one. Ok, the base damage from them is not the same, but EB damage is not that high either, so I hope they changed it a little bit and it wasn't datamined.

I believe the 4-5% is a typo and that it is supposed to be 40-50% (stacking up to 200%). 4-5 makes very little sense in terms of variance of rolls. But ultimately it's Blizzard so you never know.

Yeah, I hope so, because bounding a skill like that to be an utility skill is dumb.

Actually just noticed from the wording it seems to apply to ALL your damage - like mantle of channelling, deathwish, etc. Not as bad when you think of it that way.

Quote from Spotopolis»

Something else not listed was nerfed for the Wiz, and I dont know what it was. I am running a LoN build and I was critting for 20B-99B yesterday and that was before I found a Ancient Deathwish. Today I can barely hit 600M crits if Im lucky and I have only added more ancient items to my build and should be stronger than I was yesterday by all accounts. I cant find anything listed that would have nerfed my dmg so badly.

Any ideas?

Quote from RuffRyder26»

Quote from fehhlora»

Quote from horrax1»

you can use Delsere or TR for a 2000% dmg boost to EB. and that 20% seems to be another multiplier. so a 2400% multiplier with this and the set alone. Obviously it's interesting (and to me always was) to mix in arcane orbit, especially with the recent buffs and complementary items. But also this needs to be tested... we always need to Keep in mind that we have only 13 + 3 item Slots and 6 active skills

the damage reduction however is really needed. so we can mess around with either F/R rings or maybe even convention/unity for more toughness (oviously halo in cube and APD either cube or maybe the new shield bracers, too when fitting in some shield skills / passives). Oh well this is already getting to deep into it. but yes, i think this is great not only for EB/Woh builds in general but also for EB being one of the main damage dealers in some specific setup.

AO has the 2000% from Delsere, 300% (or 200%? Can't remember, lol) from Triumvirate, which is multiplicative, 2x explosion, which is double explosion damage + % skill on the wand + the ability to use F/R. So no, 20% multiplicative is not enough to make it worth it. They are bounding us to use EB as a utility skill, not as a damage dealer one. Ok, the base damage from them is not the same, but EB damage is not that high either, so I hope they changed it a little bit and it wasn't datamined.

I believe the 4-5% is a typo and that it is supposed to be 40-50% (stacking up to 200%). 4-5 makes very little sense in terms of variance of rolls. But ultimately it's Blizzard so you never know.

Yeah, I hope so, because bounding a skill like that to be an utility skill is dumb.

Arcane Orbit is not the only Arcane Orb (OB) rune, Obliteration for example deals 700% weapon damage and 60% skill bonus is multiplicative, but additive with other skill bonus, elemental bonus, etc, but still multiplicative with the base damage. EB has Wand of Woh which is 4 EB but Arcane Orb has the new wand which is 2 AO + 300% from Triumvirate, the math is pretty clear. EB will be an utility skill unless they buff the item as the PTR goes or buff EB base damage a little more.

And of course, we should not forget that AO doesn't have a cooldown, EB does.

Quote from horrax1»

you can use Delsere or TR for a 2000% dmg boost to EB. and that 20% seems to be another multiplier. so a 2400% multiplier with this and the set alone. Obviously it's interesting (and to me always was) to mix in arcane orbit, especially with the recent buffs and complementary items. But also this needs to be tested... we always need to Keep in mind that we have only 13 + 3 item Slots and 6 active skills

the damage reduction however is really needed. so we can mess around with either F/R rings or maybe even convention/unity for more toughness (oviously halo in cube and APD either cube or maybe the new shield bracers, too when fitting in some shield skills / passives). Oh well this is already getting to deep into it. but yes, i think this is great not only for EB/Woh builds in general but also for EB being one of the main damage dealers in some specific setup.

AO has the 2000% from Delsere, 300% (or 200%? Can't remember, lol) from Triumvirate, which is multiplicative, 2x explosion, which is double explosion damage + % skill on the wand + the ability to use F/R. So no, 20% multiplicative is not enough to make it worth it. They are bounding us to use EB as a utility skill, not as a damage dealer one. Ok, the base damage from them is not the same, but EB damage is not that high either, so I hope they changed it a little bit and it wasn't datamined.

• 4 pieces: elemental attacks increase resistance to damage types by 25% (down from 100%) for 8 seconds.

It's not down, it's a rework, before each stack would give you 100% increased resistance but only for the damage type of the stack, so 100% resistance to 4 damage types, now you gain 25% resistance per stack to all damage types, which means 100% resistance to all damage types. So it's an up after all.

• Orb of Infinite Depth: Each time you hit an enemy with Explosive Blast your damage is increased by 4 - 5% and your damage reduction is increased by 15% for 6 seconds. This effect can stack up to 4 times. (new!)

Are you guys sure about the rolls? They really want to make EB worth it giving you 20% increased damage when some items have 300% damage multipliers? It seems to me that Blizzard want us to use EB only to buff other skills, since it also give us some survivability, which is pretty sad since it's one of the coolest Wizard abilities, but we've already saw this happening with Meteor.

About Deathwish, ok, they want to nerf Firebird's then do it, but nerfing one of the coolest items of the patch is really sad. Wizards waited for a channeling build since vanilla, when they gave us one they kill it. But, as it's really nerfed now, they should make it work with Archon too, to replace Furnace on the cube, it would be a 35% damage multiplier all time against a 50% increased elite damage.

What is funny is that Blizzard started adding % bonus as an affix last patch with Helltooth and people only started complaining and thinking it is a bad thing right now, after a streamer made a video. Funny enough, this streamer complains about the lack of diversity but forgets that he was the one that last week made a video saying "RIP Static Charge" just because Blizzard was trying to increase the diversity by making other things at least compete with it.

Let's face the facts, every class will have more than 3 appealing builds on 2.4, that's the truth. What people forget is that there is only one room for a number one, and that person will reach that spot with ONE build, causing everyone else to copy it. It doesn't mean that you will not have the option to try something different. Imagine if the chinese guy who discovered the Static Charge build haven't tried different combinations: We will still be pushing with Uliana's complaining that there was no diversity.

Furthermore, let's look at Helltooth: What Blizzard did to its complementary legendaries by adding % bonus was really great, because after all, if you are playing a Acid Rain build, why would you not use the staff? There is not only one way of itemization, and it seems that Blizzard is trying to make different builds work different from each other. They will not revolve all the game arround you being able to do anything because itemization is also about choice. You cannot have it all, otherwise everything has an easy answer. You still be able to cube Gavel, but as everything is a matter of choice, you will have the option to not do it if you think that there is another stronger combination.

Yeah and you can also run double unity if damage mitigation isn't enough.

I was hoping for some new Wizard item, just a belt is kind of lame.

Quote from grouchyy»

You pay for the game AS IS. Anything after that (patches/content etc) is a freebie/bonus that they have no obligation to provide.

This! You are so sure, I love what Blizzard does because i bought the game when it was on it's first iterations (vanilla) and every patch it feels like a new game, it was money well spent. If you're not happy with it of couse there's lots of other games you can play.

Quote from Nevcairiel»

Both the shutdown timer removal and the orange progress orbs in normal rifts are PTR-only things. Both applied to the 2.2 PTR, and both were back to normal once it went live.

Yeah they were on the 2.2 PTR but as a bug that was fixed during the PTR course, I guess they are implementing it now for real as the orbs now have the normal rift color (on 2.2 PTR they were just like the grift ones), and it makes a lot of sense, as normal rifts are taking longer to be completed (mobs don't give the same amount of "rift experience" they do now on live servers).