Some obvious trolling going on in this thread by a few individuals. They seem to have no understanding of what a valid argument is. Anyways, the biggest reasons people killed the act bosses had to do with their monster level ( correct me if I am wrong here ). Gear had a level and monsters had a level. You would need to kill a monster that is of high enough level for the item you were trying to get and act bosses fit the requirement rather well. Look at the pindleskin bots from way back as an example.
Ok so if I get you guys straight, you want to play Diablo 3 not to have fun, but to "perfect" your character?
Is that what were saying? Is perfecting ones character not fun? Is getting good items a bad thing?
Now I'm not sure about you but I play becuase it's fun, I play becuase I love to interract with other people, and maybe do a fun dungeon with them
Yes because all people that like MF just hate those things.
But I'm not sure exactly how any of that would be possible if you kill the same boss, over, over again and enjoying it?
I guess were just robots *sigh
Remember they want to make Diablo 3 as random as possible and that's not possible if every "hardcore player" kills the same boss again.
Who said in D3 you have to kill a boss for good loot?
I'm sure if anyone ever actually played any other game than Diablo 2 (doubtfull)...
Wait, there are other games out there? MY GOD!
Now I now I'm not what you call a "Hardcore Diablo 2 Fan" I'm just a normal person that happens to like games, I can also think myself into different persons situations
And it almost hurts when I think about what happens to people who farm / grinding / Magic Finding
They turn into mindless slaves that can't imagine anything that's not Magic Finding
//End of transmission
So what part of fun constitutes having to fall in only your view/meaning of the word?
I realised that MF is just a cheesy way to seperate characters, a statistic that corresponds to a purpose. You need certain gear for PvPing, you need certain gear for PvEing, and you need certain gear for item hunting. This way you can make multiple characters that each serve a different purpose, and this is great fun because it keeps you playing the game since there's always something to do. Your characters support each other, the MFer finds the gear for the others, and the others give the MFer a reason to MF.
If you still don't get it, think of how things like Prevent monster heal are useless in PvP but great in PvE. This is on purpose: different gear for different purposes + different skills for different purposes + no easy switching around of skills (hopefully) = different characters for different purposes = more character customization = more characters = more goals for the player to achieve = more excuses to play the game. This is a good thing.
I enjoyed reading your post! You said it a lot better than I did.
I think we can all agree though that the looting system in D2 was flawed. Lots of worthless junk and super-low chances to find anything worthwhile. Some think that's perfect, but for a game with a lot of emphasis on looting, it sure doesn't allow much in the way of worthwhile playtime. With that said, throwing in a broken mechanic to fix that imperfection is just way more trouble. I hope they find a better balance in D3. Notice when I say balance, I'm talking about the base looting system. Not a mod that haphazardly patches it up.
This post talks about something I think should have its own discussion. Blue loot could have been a lot bigger if other items didn't trump them so well (except for few). Imagine a blue bow being better than a WF? People can find Windforces but to find a blue bow thats better ? SUPER RARE and worth alot!!! This already happens/happened on the Europe server due to private league rules. I would prefer this kind of system instead of the runewords owning everything and making MF obsolete ( Dupers fault as well). I can further clarify my point if anyone is curious.
Quote from "xq-Style" »
Player skill should depend on how smart you are in the game not by killing the same boss 100000times and saying BRO im so much better than you at this game cuz im killing the same guy over and over again and now i have imba items.
The fact is Diablo is a gear based game and Player skill will only take you so far.
Bashiok had a post talking about how players only see the loot for them but I can't remember what else he typed. A good solution against auto-pickit! I wonder how much loot drops for each person? Normal loot drop for 1 boss split so many ways or if each character will see loot drop as if they killed it solo. My guess is the former haha
I would prefer something that takes no space in my inventory. A tracking system of a few duelists would be nice, as well as an overall statistical facts on all your duels.
I kind of agree with you. Theres not a clear link between MF and grind. MF can exist without grinding and grindin can exist without MF. So I will try to put my points the clearer i can.
My problem with MF is:
- Decrease PvM customisation: With MF everyone will just make a MF Gear, so everyclass will basically use the same gear for pve and even every class will use the same gear because mf os mod that are good for all classes. Instead they should make items that cleary better for killing monsters, but worked different for every class and every build (this happens in every game except D2 and thats why D2 itemisation are pathetically lame).
-Not intuitive gameplay: When people start to play they will have to, before they look for gear that increase his character power, look for a MF gear. It's like a barrier, a very unecessary one.
In other words, try to imagine D2 without Mf but if a greater drop rate. Whats the difference? People would start the item hunting sooner (don't need that step of hunting mf gar) and would play pve with the gear that increase his class combat, not a gear that increase his power of get more gear that increase his combat power.
My problens with grind is alot more serious. Fortunaly many interviews and the simple evolution of the games showed that grinding is something unwished and will problably be replaced with something else (maybe quests).
I can see your thought process and I can almost buy into it except what you suggest will take away from Diablo 3 rather than add to it. The solution is itemization. Gear can be made to fit a persons play style with more damage/less mf or Higher MF/less damage etc. I do not believe the difference between 300 MF and 500 MF makes that much of a difference (yes I know you can get much more).
I for one am a fan of dedicated characters. I love MFing on my sorc, gold farming on my GF barb, and pvping on my PvP charater. This just seems more ideal to me rather than one character can MF/PVP/GF etc. If I am going to be playing D3 it will be for a good while and achieving all of this will be a fun ride. Thats how I feel.
I have yet to read anything of value from you. Dissing what people discuss in a FORUM made for discussion is slightly retarded don't you think? And justifying your crazy posts with "d2 is boring so any change is good" shows little thought because really their is no substance. Try to articulate your disagreement with something relating to the topic and that shows some intelligence on your part. This generic hate is boring.
XQ-style probably has little reading comprehension if all he reads is so called "mindless complaining". People bringing up legitimate concerns over Diablo 3 based off of Diablo 2 is not a bad thing. XQ-style, you will probably classify them as whiners even if they write something logical and inteligent (people like you exist on the internet as well), but try to keep your hate down to a minimum because in the end we are just trying to have fun.
It was an obvious mocking of the OP. I feel he has a small point on fury generation. I am not a huge fan of having a generate system rather a deplete style system that d2 has via mana. I know he is concerned about pvp and it is 2 soon to be terribly concerned in my opinion. One thing I dont see the logic is in the skill that "pops" fury. What is the point of having to point this skill if it will be a staple? but than again look at the sorc and teleport so meh
No one is saying you have to MF :)! You can do mindless hack and slash all you want to unwind but to remove Magic Find will not solve your "game grinding" issue. The fact is Diablo is an item driven game, which means people want the best items to make their character different and better than other players characters. Blizzard also wants to make a game that lasts so their needs to be a low chance of getting the good items. They have already said good runes will be super rare so people hoping to get their hands on some will need to spend time "grinding" mobs or bosses for a chance to have one.
As you see grinding is just a fact of low item drops, low exp to level ratio, etc...
Anyways, MF is a good thing because the grind isn't going anywhere. Plus my sister loved MFing while I did the pvp/trading thing. Different strokes for different folks but let their be something for everyone.
Did you even play pre 1.10? Finding items like storm and eaglehorn were very rewarding to the gamer as they were worth something in the economy. This made MF profitable and "fun".The problem really rests in Blizzards ability to make the game fair for everyone by removing cheats/bots. So try again one more time for me kthx.
Bashiok already made the perfect argument about why to not have keys.
"Having keys take up no space and be almost infinite in quantity to resolve both those problems and the reason to have keys disappears completely.''
The counter argument of having low key stacks = Diablo 2 and no one caring about locked chests.
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These were my thoughts on it though from earlier in the thread.
"With the increased space that each character can have, with the ability to carry multiple bags, wasting space for a key isn't that big of a deal. Especially if 1 key stack can hold say 200 keys. The whole "I ignore locked chests" argument can be fixed by just adding better chances for good drops out of locked chests. This would add to the game and help people that kill their way to a boss instead a tradition teleport MF run get good items."
People that invest time to get better items should show more profit than the person that does not. If they are smart they can even maximize their time with MF. Magic Find helped you invest less time for better items and you are against it? Levels of productivity can also be measured in a game. Time + effort should equal reward.
Also, if you believe all times are fun filled ( even in a game ) then you should reevaluate reality.
With the increased space that each character can have, with the ability to carry multiple bags, wasting space for a key isn't that big of a deal. Especially if 1 key stack can hold say 200 keys. The whole "I ignore locked chests" argument can be fixed by just adding better chances for good drops out of locked chests. This would add to the game and help people that kill their way to a boss instead a tradition teleport MF run get good items.
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As Ivaron said, don't confuse MF with MFing.
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Is that what were saying? Is perfecting ones character not fun? Is getting good items a bad thing?
Yes because all people that like MF just hate those things.
I guess were just robots *sigh
Who said in D3 you have to kill a boss for good loot?
Wait, there are other games out there? MY GOD!
So what part of fun constitutes having to fall in only your view/meaning of the word?
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I enjoyed reading your post! You said it a lot better than I did.
This post talks about something I think should have its own discussion. Blue loot could have been a lot bigger if other items didn't trump them so well (except for few). Imagine a blue bow being better than a WF? People can find Windforces but to find a blue bow thats better ? SUPER RARE and worth alot!!! This already happens/happened on the Europe server due to private league rules. I would prefer this kind of system instead of the runewords owning everything and making MF obsolete ( Dupers fault as well). I can further clarify my point if anyone is curious.
The fact is Diablo is a gear based game and Player skill will only take you so far.
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I can see your thought process and I can almost buy into it except what you suggest will take away from Diablo 3 rather than add to it. The solution is itemization. Gear can be made to fit a persons play style with more damage/less mf or Higher MF/less damage etc. I do not believe the difference between 300 MF and 500 MF makes that much of a difference (yes I know you can get much more).
I for one am a fan of dedicated characters. I love MFing on my sorc, gold farming on my GF barb, and pvping on my PvP charater. This just seems more ideal to me rather than one character can MF/PVP/GF etc. If I am going to be playing D3 it will be for a good while and achieving all of this will be a fun ride. Thats how I feel.
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As you see grinding is just a fact of low item drops, low exp to level ratio, etc...
Anyways, MF is a good thing because the grind isn't going anywhere. Plus my sister loved MFing while I did the pvp/trading thing. Different strokes for different folks but let their be something for everyone.
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"Having keys take up no space and be almost infinite in quantity to resolve both those problems and the reason to have keys disappears completely.''
The counter argument of having low key stacks = Diablo 2 and no one caring about locked chests.
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These were my thoughts on it though from earlier in the thread.
"With the increased space that each character can have, with the ability to carry multiple bags, wasting space for a key isn't that big of a deal. Especially if 1 key stack can hold say 200 keys. The whole "I ignore locked chests" argument can be fixed by just adding better chances for good drops out of locked chests. This would add to the game and help people that kill their way to a boss instead a tradition teleport MF run get good items."
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Also, if you believe all times are fun filled ( even in a game ) then you should reevaluate reality.
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