DiabloFans

Quote from "emilemil1" »

I'm going to post my 2 D3-On-Consoles problems here too.

1. How do you pick up items?
2. How do you move and target things in a way that is at least as efficient as mouse movement/targeting?

That, my friend, along with many other questions, can only truly be answered by the people in blue. We, as fans, can only make suggestions and ideas and minutely influence what direction the gameplay should take.

Quote from "CKW" »

Heh, I don't think they could do that bad. It would be a good idea for them to expand to consoles if they like money. But then again it seems like console gamers tend to be pretty immature and that would bring a whole bunch of that to the community. No offense to console gamers, I am one myself but the amount of 8 year olds playing and cussing me out is ridiculous when I go on Xbox Live.

That would be because, apparently, there's no parenting involved with said children. And I typically mute them the first chance I get and report them if they really act like they need to be hung upside-down and slapped senseless.

Quote from "Zhar" »

Of all the games that would have made it on consoles, Starcraft Ghost would have been perfect.

Seems most of the games on consoles are either FPS games, or TPS/A games (Third person shooter/adventure). Of course, there are exceptions, but for the most part the successful games fall into those categories.

Seems RTS games still continue to be the realm of the PC, there have been RTS games on consoles, of course, but they exist mostly on PC's.


Anywho, these days I think Diablo may actually do quite well on consoles. Dragon Age origins is quite similar to the Diablo games, and it fucking dominated on consoles. Plus, I actually liked Diablo on the console, it just didn't do as well since Battlenet wasn't offered on the Playstation, and it blew everyone's minds on the PC.

As far as FPSs and TPSs/A are concerned, they're like chocolate soldiers - you've seen one, you've seen them all. It's just how you make the chocolate and how nicely you wrap it.

Same thing with RTSs imo, however they seem equal in gameplay on PC and consoles.

I agree that Diablo would do well if Blizz could bring it to consoles successfully. I imagine all the possibilities of playing party-wise across Xbox Live or Playstation 3's version of that and it brings a wide evil grin to my face.

I'm sure that there would be plenty to work towards if Blizzard ever decides to try and implement a MMORPG for a console. I, for one, would love it. I look at it this way - if they made Diablo 1 for the Playstation, then anything is possible. They couldn't possibly do worse than Final Fantasy 11 for the Xbox....could they?

I know that sales for Diablo 1 might not have been stellar, but I always liked the fact that, as I was opposed to PC at the time, it made single player gameplay more attractive. If they had somehow managed to make it a multi-player game over consoles, then I would have loved to have played it even more.

That said, I prefer consoles over PC gaming in general, basically because, to me, it always came down to who had the most money to blow on a computer that could out-perform other players on-line. With consoles, it basically limited it to internet connection speed and if you modded your system at all. I don't mind playing PC games, especially when it comes to Diablo, but if some PC games can be made into console games, then more power to Blizzard if they can. If they manage to make MMORPGs come to console, you can bet your last dime, and probably mine too, that I'd be amongst the first in line to buy it. If they made D3 into a console game, or even D2 at this point, I'd snap those up in a heart beat. If they made collector's editions, they'd make a killing off of someone like me.

Quote from "scyberdragon" »

MF and loot tables are two seperate mechanics. MF merely increases the chance to get rarer drops from any particular monster's loot table. I do agree that loot tables need to be larger to avoid farming. However, any MF mechanic has no effect on this. I really hope that they use MF to enhance gameplay and not use it as a reason for gameplay.

While I agree with you that they are separate mechanics, the fact still remains, imo, that both of them go hand-in-hand under the current way MF and loot in Diablo is handled. I liken this scenario to baby feeding - where the loot table is what the baby gets fed and MF is how often the baby gets fed. Now, at normal "loot drops" you feed the baby at normal intervals and with somewhat different meal selection, hopefully keeping the little guy, or girl, happy in the process. Then you increase the rate of finding loot to the point where you go "item farming", then you begin to see that the baby is getting fed the same selections of food, just at a faster rate. Ultimately, that little thing is either going to want to be fed something different or to have a completely randomized meal selection and be fed normally. And if you are the average Diablo player, my guess would be that, if things didn't change noticably, the baby would start emitting sounds that you don't want to hear, or it will give you something else that stinks. This analogy doesn't apply to people who like eating, and who wouldn't mind feeding others, the same thing all the time.

My solution to this would be to give all monsters the capability to drop any piece of loot in the game. Obviously, you give unique monsters and bosses higher percentage rates for dropping loot. In addition to this, I'd also keep normalized loot tables for set difficulties i.e. keep normal set/unique loot on Normal, medium-quality set/uniques on Nightmare, etc. The idea would be to keep the loot tables completely open and random, yet, completely proportionate to what you face. I like the way that D2's bosses drop a fair amount of loot, but when you start beating that boss over and over to try and see one piece of loot, then I feel the idea of "random loot" is broken to the point where it needs to be adressed. Compare that to D1, or at least to how much time and effort I put into it, and I never once got the hint that certain bosses or mobs dropped certain items. All I'm saying is if you're going to bring back MF in D3, that's fine, just make sure the loot tables aren't partial to players looking to kill one monster to find one piece of equipment. That, to me, would nullify MF being, or being thought of as, a prominent gameplay mechanic.

Quote from "CKW" »

I don't get what you mean by repeated drops? His method just means your chance of finding rares, uniques, sets etc. would go up like your xp bar when you kill monsters or do combos. I also assume that with this method after a certain period of time the MF percentile would drop, therefore, you would need to continually kill monsters to find items, no more tele/running past everything straight to Mephisto to find your SoJ's.

^^ I was just clarifying if you misunderstood. Maybe I am the one who doesn't understand what you meant?

Nah, it's cool. Allow me to clarify....

I understood what he meant by the proposed method of MF-ing for D3. It sounds really awesome, in theory. My beef is that, from what I've seen in D2, no matter how many times I've farmed, either from bosses or mobs up to bosses (provided that you don't skip them) the same kind of rares/epic drop from them. For better wording, what I'm getting at is the loot table for the bosses/mobs have been dropping the same things over and over. For me, this kind of thing goes against my idea of random loot. That's what killing the hordes of hell is mainly for, to get different kinds of loot.

Now, should this new MF thing be implemented the way he envisioned it, but you still get the same kind of loot no matter how many times you perform the chain-kill, then the idea of MF to get better loot is still broken.

For example, you chain-kill a mob to the point where you find a really cool item, be it a rare or a unique or a set item. Good stuff, right? Ah, but then you do it again and get the same [insert slang here] item the next five times in a row. Or, you end up getting something lackluster and then get that same item again. Magic Find, no matter what its implementation is or can be, is a great concept. But, if the loot table is [again, slang here], then the whole idea of MF goes to waste, does it not?

Before I add in my two cents, I'd like to mention that I haven't played D2 since patch 1.11 so I did not vote.

Now, I don't mind enemies having immunities and, should memory serve me correctly, D2 back then certainly had their share of them. However, I found after several hours of playing and noticing certain uniques and bosses that they shared one common weakness: no "Immune to Magic". I saw plenty of times that things were "Magic Resistant" but not immune to the mechanic. So, in my ongoing thirst for gaming knowledge, I asked myself "Well, what classes have 'magical damage'?" My thoughts turned immediately to my favorite characer, da Barb. Though he was a mostly physical guy, he did have one magical attack - Berserk. After noticing that one skill was his way of getting around "Immune to Physical", I was disappointed that he didn't have any other means to circumvent that.

So, my thoughts turned to my next favorite, the Amazon. She (I always preferred the Bowazon build) had the 'Magic Arrow' skill and, like the Barb, was the only skill that had 'magical damage'.

That, in turn, made me look to the Pally. Now, back then, I knew of the Hammerdin build and I have to say, THAT was the way to get the job done right. The skill 'Blessed Hammer' has that lovely 'magical damage' aspect AS WELL AS doing double damage to the undead. Overpowered, at least, as I remember it. However, as a wisened destruct-o-maniac once asked me, "Is it worth over-doing it if it's worth actually putting forth the effort to do it anyway?" He was a heck of a guy. Shame he blew himself up using 950 lbs. of TNT.

Which now brings me to the Necro. The Necro has Bone Spirit and Bone Spear for 'magical damage' and I was shown by one of my friends how potentially destructive Bone Spirit can be. It's nice, and for creatures with immunities that would give the Necro a minor headache is a very reasonable solution.

And, finally, the sorc. I know there's still the Drood and Sassin, but the only Druid I ever played was a Werebear tank and I never dabbled into the Sassin to care enough. Now, pretty much all of the Sorc's skills are elemental based and the fact that even the mobs in Hell mode have elemental immunities or resistances turned me off of the Sorc immediately. To my way of thinking, it was "Why even make a build if you're going to eventually come across a group of creatures are going to be immune to it, anyways?" Even with the Static Field, the Sorc really had no value in my eyes. Though all of her attacks were magic-based, there was nothing that specifically gave any of her skills 'magical damage'. I know that her Cold Mastery reduces the enemies resistance to her cold-based spells but, if it doesn't reduce it enough then where's the point in having the skill? Bottom line is that if the Sorc cannot have access to a spell that can damage, and ultimately kill, her enemy in a somewhat timely fashion no matter what immunity that creature has, the class holds no playable value for me.

Now, if you haven't already figured it out, I'm a kinda guy that likes to kill everything. And I mean, everything. For me, it came down to this thought, "If I can kill the Lesser and Prime Evils using any decent build that would seem relevant to the average player, why then can I not kill a minion of said Evils with the same set-up?" The biggest example I can think of is Bone Ash near the end of Act 1. In Hell mode, that guy had almost every immunity and/or resistance in the game. My Barb had a great difficulty in downing him alone, while my Bowazon managed to down him rather handily. I could only hazard a guess as to what other classes would do if they attempted to kill him. Pally, I think, would have the easiest time of them all. Most, I would imagine, would skip the unique. To me, if you make a creature that's incredibly difficult to kill, and it isn't an end boss, then why make it in the first place? Probably to make people like me wonder that sort of thing...

Quote from "CKW" »

Just saw this and I really like this idea a lot. This method would be perfect for Diablo. :thumbsup:

So long as you don't get repeating loot drops like you do in D2. If I start chain-killing a mob and I end up getting the same crap over and over and over again, not only will I be frustrated beyond description but I might also be compelled to start chainsawing the Diablo 3 play disc.

But I'd rather do that to the WoW discs I have. I've always preferred Diablo to World of Grindcraft.

I liked the idea that MF brought to D2; however, there came a time where I was farming for gear that an issue struck me right in my face like a shotgun blast from Dick Cheney - I started finding the same set and unique items over and over again.

Mind you, I never played on-line in D2 and my characters of choice were Barb and Bowazon so item farming went really smooth. Both chars were in the mid 70s level and decently geared and had roughly 80%-130% MF. When I did Mephisto and Baal runs on nightmare (the object, of course, was to get better gear for Hell) I kept finding greens and "golds" that I could identify just by looking at them because I had seen them so many [insert favorite slang here] times.

As I wait for the inevitible release of D3, I find myself playing more of D1 on the Playstation. The reason for that is, though I like finding good lewtz as I play, I also enjoy the fact that as I play further that ANY particular mob could drop a unique, not just the bosses. I like most of D2 but if they could have just made the drops like D1, then I would've been more happy with it. No more "Well, if you kill this particular boss you MIGHT get what you really want!" or "If you load your gear with MF you'll find what you want faster!" I just like going along, merrily murdering tons of hellspawn or undead, or the occasional human who turns out to be a completely mental turdball and just when I least expect it, something drops that makes my eyes go from (-.-) to (o.O). That, to me, makes a very playable Diablo game. If you want to include MF, fine, just make it so the rest of the Diablo community and myself don't see repeating loot drops.

While I'm on the subject of loot, I don't mind needing to have decent gear to proceed but when it turns into "You must have the most awesome gear to even remotely get past these mobs no matter what build you are!" then my gaming mood, along with my internal replay value of the game, hits rock bottom very quickly. Thus, why my Bowazon could never get beyond Duriel in Hell mode. One final question to all before I end this little rant of mine: Why is it that Duriel is one of the hardest fights in the game and he drops the equivalent of a glittering chest?

*breathes heavily* End.....rant..... *loud thud*