DiabloFans

Quote from paroxysm2010

Wondering if we will get to play around with some web-skill calculators after the beta comes out, im not sure what it would entail, pick your skills, tell it what your character level is, what runes you will be using, and look at the stats, for those who dont get into beta, and even those who do, gameplay vids, and skill calculators will be a good fix

and im not counting the out dated barbarian skill tree calculator either =/

bad troll is bad.

Quote from Simpy7

Quote from mindstain

Quote from K1RSCH

@PantheraOrca - Haha good call. That makes sense.

I just hope there isn't alot of cheating in the RMAH. (For example buying out all of one item and then only selling a few at a time to create scarcity to bump up the prices.)

Not really educated on how the WoW AH works or anything so I'm not sure if this would make you any money or not, but it seems like it could be worth a try to make a few bucks.

Bashiok did address "Shilling" in a blue post which is similar to what I'm talking about.
http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/188749/outbidding-the-competitor/

Mass buyouts are very profitable gold producing methods in WoW. Especially before content patches or updates where players can predict the value of items drastically rising. For instance, if there is a crafting resource produced from your nephilim cube that makes some low level item. It won't sell for much on the RMAH. Then Blizzard updates and that resource becomes an ingredient in a new high level item. A person could acquire this information early and buy up all of that resource being posted on the RMAH at a low price while waiting on the update. Once the update hits, the person then has a huge stockpile of a resource that everyone wants. The person starts meeting the new extremely high demand with their large supply at high prices and anyone else who posts the resource for prices beneath theirs can be bought and reposted easily considering how quickly the resource is selling at such a high price. Demand control will be important. Blizzard will need to safely guard information like this so that it isn't released prior to implementation. Not sure they will, but with real money involved I, personally, think they should.

There is quite a large risk in that. What if blizzard just announce on patchday that they have to postpone that change and then you sit there with your huge amount of worthless stuff you paid RM for ^^

Also when it comes to keyloggers correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the #1 source of keyloggers WoW-addons? and again correct me if I'm wrong but D3 won't have addons right? so how will a D3-player get them?

I've thought about this blizzard revenue thing. They might actually earn some from RMAH even though the listing fees are low. Since many people will use their e-balance to purchase ingame stuff instead of cashing out. Meaning the money is just circulating the RMAH giving blizz some money every auction posted and every auction sold/bought ... clever. Very good for blizzard = good for the games = good for us

arguably it isn't worthless considering it fetched a price from you as you bought it up. However, I do see your point as to the risk you would run relying on consistency in Blizzard releasing accurate information pertaining to an update. I can say that I know it has happened before, but I can't say that it has happened reliably.

I guess very good for blizzard = good for the games = good for us. Honestly, I played WoW throughout every expansion since The Burning Crusade up to Cataclysm and their subscription grew exponentially, which meant tons more revenue for Blizzard. You might argue that the game continually expanded with new content or whatever, but personally I thought the game got worse with every expansion. I ended my subscription before the recent content addition to Cataclysm with no intention of renewing. The more people that played, the more Blizzard started chipping away at the things earlier players enjoyed to accommodate the droves of scrubs and nubs. Therefore, good for Blizzard = bad for the game = I get drunk and troll Diablo III forums wanting a release date before I resort to taking hostages.

Quote from Jackzor

Bad luck for you. Not only did I rarely see bots, but when I reported them they were pretty quickly taken care of. Farming, and selling items for real money, is something that would happen either way. I fail to see how its at all game breaking now that Blizzard will hypothetically have much more control over the item trade.

I fail to see it as gamebreaking as well. Just because I agree that hacking will be an issue and throwing money at it won't necessarily "solve" it, doesn't mean I'm chicken little waiting for the secret cow level to come crashing down. They will hypothetically have more control of Diablo III what WoW imo. Hypothetically, they will control pricing so that it does not reach outrageous levels that leads to constant spamming of complaints in a public trade channel such as in WoW. Hypothetically, there could be someone else out there who unlike you saw bots in WoW and unlike me didn't know that they were the same character name as someone they knew in real life. Hypothetically, that person wouldn't even be aware of bots. Especially since they spend the majority of their time running out-dated areas in places within the game known as "instances"...... see where I'm going with this?

Point still stands I support the RMAH and will participate in it. However, I r not like hear stupid WoW fanboism or Blizzard fanboism, cuz I r spoiled internetz video gamer who r talk about things in video game he don't like even when it pointless.

Guess what. There is no end-all solution to hacking. There are some pretty functional safeguards to duping though, and the RMAH is going to be a very good strategy to do just that. Not because it will generate extra money for Blizzard to purchase a bunch of scrubs to sit in each others laps and type faster with four hands on a keyboard vs. two. Just because it is a strong system based on it's functionality and eliminating the demand for third party sites.

Quote from Jackzor

Clearly you've never played WoW. Because the majority of what customer service does is answer and respond to complaints, most of which are about bots seeing as they made it extremely easy to report people. So their job is in large part banning bots/hackers.

As far as hacking, the only thing they'd ever be able to steal would be Blizzard currency that would only be able to be turned into cash if they hacked the relevant person's PayPal as well.

I actually have played WoW and the majority of their time is spent reimbursing people for lost items/gold that was hacked, squandered (though they only do this a limited amount of times), or stolen. I personally have reported people who have hacked my friends accounts and ran bots SEVERAL times, only to see them constantly continuing to run the Hellfire Rampants in order to farm gold. Obviously, the only reason a character would be repeatedly running Hellfire Rampants and not responding to my repeated taunts involving his/her mother, a broomstick, a chili pepper, and some petroleum jelly would be because that character was being botted.

I personally witnessed this for well over a period of 6 months. Myself and several of my friends reported it repeatedly.

Quote from Akuma Seijin

Quote from Zero(pS)

Overly complex PvP is just not going to happen, probably not even in an expansion, as they want to keep it as clean and simple as it can be. Maybe over Jay Wilson's body

There's something to be said about "focusing" too, when a game has like 12 game modes, it splits the whole community, and usually there's 2-3 of them which are more traditional/interesting, so I don't think Blizzard will even risk going that way.

The DotA (battle arena) format would require a ton of balancing too, which minions would appear, how would buildings/capture points work, etc. A "survival arena" is more likely to happen, and probably 1 or 2 extra modes in expansions (considering the current TDM-only-mode is kept).

My2cents.

All good points but there is one that bothers me. I agree not wanting a console port to not split the community. I agree not having a separate server with diff AH options because it would separate the community. I do not agree diff pvp modes would split the community.

yea "splitting the community" excuse in this instance is lame. It probably is what Blizzard would go with though. They aren't going to want to keep having to say that "we are focusing on PvE, not PvP". The more they say it.... the more it looks like a bad idea. Probably why a post like this might not get much attention were it on the b.net forums.

Remember that the next time you hear about how "honest and direct" they are being with information.

Release date? Even better how about a Beta confirmation with still no date a week later? Sounds like a definitive "still on track" to me.

Quote from -Mephisto

Stop making it sound like Blizzard employe people whose sole task is to ban bots and hackers.

^ this. Whether you agree with RMAH or not, acting like Blizzard is magically going to solve all of your problems you are experiencing as a gamer by including a system that involves real money in trading requires so much explanation you will probably become conceited and think you are the smartest fucker in the world and ignore any problems that could come up with a RMAH, because your defense of it is "so well thought out". Yea....... Blizzard is going to make all the baddies go away when we throw money at them because....... "people want to pay for items that would be otherwise free". Real "well thought out"!

Quote from Groanan

Quote from Simpy7

Addons = not existing in Diablo 3? Or maybe you mean a third party program?

Bits of code written to be run in conjunction with the game created by someone other than Blizzard.Just because Blizzard does not support addons for Diablo iii, doesn't mean none will exist.If it is untraceable, Diablo's version of Warden won't find it, and if there is website access, I doubt the Diii version of Warden will be running in the background at the time.

^ this is a real concern. Funny thing is much richer companies than Blizzard pay much more educated technicians than Blizzard game designers to defend their technology from hacking. Yet organizations like anonymous still manage to make them shake at the knees. If there is enough reason to do it, someone will eventually hack anything.

Quote from PantheraOnca

Quote from mindstain

Despite what a WoW player might tell you. Someone will eventually figure out a method of duping most likely, and when they do if they put it on the AH it will probably be recognized as a dupe. +1 for the RMAH imo. The main reason you don't see duping in WoW is most likely a combination of 1) almost all items are BoP (farming the few BoE's even for just 1 to dupe is time consuming and therefore not cost-efficient) 2) constant maintenance and security 3) hopefully a program that can recognize dupes either through the AH or log in/log off.

Duping isn't a thing in wow at all.

To counter your 3 points:

1- There are non-BoP crafting materials which you could make an ABSOLUTE killing on if there were a dup method when new patches arrive (or were, I played seriously back in Wrath and crusader orbs and such were stupid expensive when first introduced).

2- Will also be present in D3, hence the "always online" they've gone with.

3- Always online probably circumvents the need for this, but I'm sure they'll have extra layers of dupe protection just because ... I'm sure diablo means dupe in some language somewhere somewhen.


Re: cornering a market. It will technically be possible, but without more info, and depending on the number of players/items/cost per item per region, it may not be too viable (but it also could be).

You're right, there isn't any duping in WoW. Hopefully, you are right and the "always online" method will ensure that duping never happens. I only referenced WoW because the items are "controlled" differently and a direct comparison is someone difficult to draw. At least an accurate one is. Unless you reference the "always online" aspect, which you did. I hate the argument that without a subscription fee there is no security vs. duping though.

Quote from K1RSCH

@PantheraOrca - Haha good call. That makes sense.

I just hope there isn't alot of cheating in the RMAH. (For example buying out all of one item and then only selling a few at a time to create scarcity to bump up the prices.)

Not really educated on how the WoW AH works or anything so I'm not sure if this would make you any money or not, but it seems like it could be worth a try to make a few bucks.

Bashiok did address "Shilling" in a blue post which is similar to what I'm talking about.
http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/188749/outbidding-the-competitor/

Mass buyouts are very profitable gold producing methods in WoW. Especially before content patches or updates where players can predict the value of items drastically rising. For instance, if there is a crafting resource produced from your nephilim cube that makes some low level item. It won't sell for much on the RMAH. Then Blizzard updates and that resource becomes an ingredient in a new high level item. A person could acquire this information early and buy up all of that resource being posted on the RMAH at a low price while waiting on the update. Once the update hits, the person then has a huge stockpile of a resource that everyone wants. The person starts meeting the new extremely high demand with their large supply at high prices and anyone else who posts the resource for prices beneath theirs can be bought and reposted easily considering how quickly the resource is selling at such a high price. Demand control will be important. Blizzard will need to safely guard information like this so that it isn't released prior to implementation. Not sure they will, but with real money involved I, personally, think they should.

Quote from PantheraOnca

Quote from K1RSCH

It will be interesting however to see if third party sites compete in any way. If competitive bidding makes a great item pricey in the Official RMAH, why not get it cheaper (if available) on a third party site? (with the risk of being scammed of course)

Why create a 3rd party site when you can just list that item for a lesser value and have it sell immediately.

I mean, if your goal is to obtain log-in info, sure, make your 3rd party site and keylog away, but if you're just looking for cash for items, the blizz ah market will give you that easy.

Because you have developed a method of duping and the fact that blizzard will find it and it will disappear is irrelevant to you. The hope is that a fear of duped items will keep people from purchasing cheaper items from third party sites.

Despite what a WoW player might tell you. Someone will eventually figure out a method of duping most likely, and when they do if they put it on the AH it will probably be recognized as a dupe. +1 for the RMAH imo. The main reason you don't see duping in WoW is most likely a combination of 1) almost all items are BoP (farming the few BoE's even for just 1 to dupe is time consuming and therefore not cost-efficient) 2) constant maintenance and security 3) hopefully a program that can recognize dupes either through the AH or log in/log off.

Keylogging and/or hacking accounts is probably the biggest concern for Diablo III. I'm not saying it is a deal breaker or even a downside of a RMAH in comparison to D2 standards. However, it will be an issue, and it is one that has been an issue in games like WoW where for whatever reason Blizzard fanboys are convinced that their subscription fees grant them uber-security instead of simply covering server maintenance and upkeep fees and bolstering a high profit margin.

Quote from Ferret

Quote from Rubarack

This is going to involve making up some numbers and those numbers are key to this issue.

Hmm.
By deductive reasoning skills, I have derived the following equation:

Make up some Numbers (x) = Numbers (x) are the key to this issue
As we know, X cancels out, so were left with... Make up some issue? I mean, you can't say you're gonna make something up and then base your whole conclusion why something is detriminal on that made up fact.

What do you think is going to happen once people meet their limit for free postings a week? People will be going crazy playing this game when it comes out, and find according levels of loot. It is in their best interest to post these on the gold AH once their RMT limit is reached without having to pay for further postings. That way, they can turn around next week and sell all the gold they made from those items as well. I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to sell 5 items for cash and have 10,000 gold to sell next week instead of just 5 items and nothing else? Everyone who posts more than the limit has to pay Blizzard upfront, and if that item doesn't sell...

Well put. For this reason a lot of you "I don't want to particpate in a P2W" moral highgrounders will be supporting the Chinese gold farmers you despise so much by participating in only the GAH. Farmers will see the incentive of cutting out the middle man (Blizzard posting/selling fees) by selling items on the GAH and then selling the gold in one lump sum. Gold will sell consistently more than likely, and the mantra in the beginning will most likely be that gold < what it should be worth in the eyes of most players simply because there is a RMAH and real money to be had. Also, a lot of people playing the RMAH will most likely buy gold from it to purchase artisans, followers, etc.

Quote from Magistrate

Quote from apples

because those gold/item farmers are at a minimum on diablo and wow atm. /sarcasm.

Wow. He never even said that. That was a low blow, and you definitely just put words in his mouth.

But let's look at what's inherently wrong with your terminology. A farmer is anyone that grinds bosses and areas for drops. Guess what? That's what the entire Diablo franchise is built on. There's nothing wrong with farming.

If you meant spam bots advertising item-selling sites and farming bots...

It's been said by Blizzard representatives that they aren't even concerned with Diablo II anymore, calling it a lost cause due to its horrid infrastructure and outdated programming. Plus, they're working on Diablo III. Who the fuck cares about a ten year old game that makes hardly any profit?

Besides all that, much greater care has been and is being taken with WoW by GM's and others to keep bots out of the game and ban those that pop up. I didn't play WoW for very long--just over a year--but I'd been to every city and dungeon and completed a great deal of the content and guess what? There's barely any spam bots in that game. Those that are there are instantly reported and gone within minutes.

Furthermore, it's not even like Blizzard is selling the items. We are. If anything, this is a step towards a more realistic trade system that would have been prevalent in the late sixteenth century.

Actually farmers in WoW usually don't kill bosses. There is a chance that many of them won't in Diablo III due to the gold they earn at a faster rate from quickly farming easier mobs being able to purchase gear from the gold AH to sell on the RMAH. I would say there is a huge difference between the person who does this and myself. Not that it really matters I guess, unless you feel sorry for the guy for whatever reason. I'm sure there are worse sweatshops in China than gold farming ones.

Secondly, you are completely full of shit about the spam in WoW. You can't pretend that at various intervals of your time playing there you didn't see floating corpses spelling out a website name.

Lastly, BEFORE YOU ALL FLAME ME. I am not against the RMAH. I will participate in it even. I have just seen a lot of inconsistent thoughts in support of both sides and it can only be due to practically none of you being able to take an objective view point on it. You have all made up your minds and seem to be persistently bashing your heads against each other. Pretending like a RMAH is the end all response to third party sell sites, hacking, duping, etc. is just being stupid. Pretending like a RMAH is pure corruption on Blizzard's part and doesn't seem like a reasonable step in a new direction is just being stubborn. You guys should really work on meeting in the middle somewhere with a litte common sense and less ego.

Quote from professor_zim

Haven't read the above comments, maybe someone said it already.

If they introduce ever increasing tax on putting items to auction, that would prevent farming/botting. Say if there are 10 open bids, it would cost 11% of asked price to put 11th item, 12% for 12th etc, up to 100%. Or same, but on the daily basis, that would force acquiring multiple copies of the game, setting up multiple money accounts and would not generate any profit above some small amount. In other words, Blizzard could limit how much money an account could make per day.

What do you think?

Sounds like punishing people for even using the system. Even if it only limited on a daily or a weekly basis, I don't think it is a constructive solution to the "farming" issue. Not that I thought a RMAH was the best choice either.

Something I can't help but feel like is being overlooked here is the incentive to compromise accounts. Even with a new battle.net the risk of your account being hacked is still real. Ask anyone playing WoW on the new battle.net right now if they think it means they don't need an authenticator anymore. Even with an authenticator your chances of being hacked are only decreased. Maintaining an account of real money through Battle.net (even if I haven't invested any of my own money after purchasing diablo III) makes the likelihood of my account being hacked an even bigger issue for me...... not to mention how enticing it will now be to Chinese "farmers".

Also, a lot of people seem to think that since the "farmers" in WoW are content to gold farm, they will only care to gold farm in Diablo III. However, Diablo III is going to be a completely different game from WoW, and without having the economy already established to reference we can't really presume to know just how strong in-game gold will be. Especially with the RMAH undermining it's value. Even without having the system in place to reference it's obvious that RMAH undermines gold. It may not make gold completely worthless, but it makes it so that you can circumvent using it at least in the AH by using real money and if you need it for something in game you can just buy as much as you need with real money.