DiabloFans

Quote from xManiaCCCx

Charlondo724, while I don't ultimately disagree with you, you have to understand when you have "a bit competitive environment" like arenas, ladder etc... People will demand balance. And Diablo just can't be balanced. There is no way to achieve it.

I am not saying they will never add ladder or classic arenas and ranking, but I see why they don't want to do it.

Quote from PantheraOnca

Quote from ShadowGoat

Fine, my wording was bad. People buying items for RM was a smaller community than PvP. Thats the only point I'm trying to get across.

Not to beat a dead horse, but even if that WAS true for d2 (and i by no means think it is, if massive numbers of people WEREN'T buying items, there wouldn't be as many bots as there were/are in d2) its certainly not true now. the number of gamers with disposable income has only grown since d2, since a lot of the kids who played d2 now have jobs and/or families. with jobs and families comes a lack of time, which makes spending money on getting things quicker look appealing.

and if you don't have a job, you can use d3 to make income now. I have a job, and i STILL plan to try and maximize my $/hour spent playing d3 just so that i can make as much money as possible while enjoying what i'm doing. That would be a fantastic change of pace from my real job, and hell it might take care of one of any of my given bills enjoyable to pay (how @$##ed up is that?!?!).

Quote from AmishLou

Thanks for the help. How do you tell what your RAM bus speed is? My specs are below:

Win7 Pro x64
Intel Core i7 920 Oced to 3.1 GHz
ASUS P6T basic
6 GB Corsair Dominator DDR3/1600
ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB
1 TB 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD
Asetek LCLC 120 Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan

Verizon FiOS 25 mbps connection

In the windows experience index, my hard drive is bringing the scores down from the 7 range to 5.9, so I've been thinking about getting a SSD, but it seems it won't make much of a difference for Diablo 3.

Quote from BluefoxNL

tell me how can you do pvp in a rpg game?

this community will be too big too have a really good pvp system in the form of rankings....this is mostly pvm game..
How can u have a pvp ranking in which u can only play with 4 against 4? So the number 1 rank and the number 2 rank. Have NEVER played against each other...and also never seen each other ingame....

pvp sucks in diablo....not because it isnt fun to play. But because pvp is only good with rankings. And imo its impossible to create this. PVP is for counter strike kinda games

EDIT: imo pvp = only about being the best. But how can u know are the best? By playing every single player MULTIPLE times...
Match making....ok I'm addict I'm playing 24/7 I play ONLY against noobs. I make 100% win....I get low rank gain cuz I play noobs. But I play so much. I will end on top....
Next day I play against a pro. I lose. Still on top list....

Quote from ComMcNeil

Quote from ShadowGoat

Diablo 2 PvP was open ended. Diablo 3 PvP is being forced casual.
RM AH requires development cycles to create. They are spending those cycles on a much smaller community (people who want to spend real money) rather than on a bigger community (people who PvP competitively).

I would like to know where you got the data to back up this claim. I for one played pvp in my 11 jears of diablo 2 for about 30 minutes, then I have had enough, I am not interested. And I am sure other also were not.
But trading is a big part of Diablo 2, in PvE and PvP. With the addition of the AH now, even if the currency behind it is real money, noone forces you to spend money to use the AH, so a lot more people will have the desire to use the AH than before, leading to a much larger group of people involved in this. And I for one think, this will outweigh the PvP community.

Quote from miccyj617

Quote from Diisfunk

You all seem very worried about RMAH, but you forget to adress a very important issue. How things are being developed in regards to PvP. After reading http://www.diablofans.com/topic/26249-diablo-3-press-event-visit/ and reading Sixen's interview with Jay Wilson I have come to a couple conclusions:

1. He doesn't want PvP to flourish at all, "Part of that is PvP isn’t our primary focus, so we want to keep it simple". Even though he acknowleges that many people will be playing the game with PvP in mind and try to make it an E-Sport, he just doesn't want that happening at all. What he doesn't understand is that we don't want an E-Sport we just want a competitive and reasonably balanced PvP enviroment.

2. He keeps trying to make PvP more and more casual, "we have changed the arena mode a bit to feel more casual than the mode that was at Blizzcon which was very last man standing, high-pressure, because if you died, you were done for that round". He wants people to come in and sort of "pwn noobs with a big grin in their face". Which is okay.. but that only works for people who are new to ANY KIND OF GAMING OR ANY KIND OF PVP, and I'm sure that most of the people excited for Diablo arn't that. He also wants to purposely make PvP inbalanced "No, it’s going to be horrifically imbalanced, and that’s part of the fun". That might be the little kid's defenition of fun, but I doubt most people consider unbalanced PvP that fun.

3. Taking the casual to the extreme: Jay Wilson said, " There is no ranking. There is an invisible ranking that we use for matchmaking but it’s a per player basis" In response to the matchmaking system. Why would he even want to do that... I see no logic in that. He follows by stating, "we don’t have a “I’m a 2200 rated player and therefore I am better than you as a 2100 rated player”. What we are focusing on is a more of a progression based system which is “I am a level 20 PvPer” which means I have played a lot of PvP". This is just ... I don't get the desire for the PvP to be so casual. Finally, "Currently, we don’t even do a win/loss ratio. We might do a number of wins but not a number of losses. Even in SC, we found that the number of wins actually feels a lot better than showing a win/loss ratio. That’s why people recycle accounts because people don’t want those losses shown. So, the solution was to not show them. We want to keep it more casual." This part just made me want to punch him, how stupid can someone be.

4. His insistance in PvE when the Diablo series isn't challenging at all when keeping PvE in mind. "Whenever we run into a case where “this would be really awesome for PvE” and the PvP guys says “ that kind of screw PvP” the answer is always “shut up PvP guy, it’s awesome in PvE." Why does he want to insist in making PvE the priority by that much of a margin when the PvE system prob won't be challenging. Even in WoW where the PvE system is decently challenging a lot of people find PvP just that much more fun. Basically based on D2 people PvEd so that they could grind gear to PvP and I was pretty sure up until this press event that D3 would be the same.


Overall, I feel like the point he's missing is that PvP is a huge part of Diablo. Argueably the only reason why D2 lived for so long is because of PvP. The main reason why people feel like they need to get better gear is to own people not to SLASH DEM EZMODE GRINDABLE MONSTERS HARDER. Even though Jay Wilson wants to make PvE the primary aspect of Diablo it's not possible to keep people hooked up on Diablo by just PvEing unless there's a really good and complicated end mode PvE system with new PvE coming out every few months. Anyhow, if that does happen, he should still strive to make PvP as best as possible not fucking ignore it. Anyways, if you want you can read Sixen's interview with Jay Wilson, but I'm pretty sure you will come to the same conclusions that I have come to.

Basically my suggestions are:

-Ranking System

-Good Matchmaking System
Gear+Raiting wise leaning on 65-70% Raiting 30-35% Gear for the matchmaking values

-Just tuning down Dmg/Stuns/Slows for PvP (Have a PvP version and PvE version of a skill so it doesn't alter PvE)

Dissfunk-

I completely agree 110% to everything you said. You took the ideas right out of my head. I used to like Jay Wilson... I used to think he really wanted to make an all around good game.... boy was i wrong. being a PVPer and seeing his most recent interview... I must say.. i hate his guts. Hate him now. The guy seems to be taking a game with so much potential and destroying it. Yes the PVE will be fun for a while... BUT THAT GETS EXTREMELY OLD. What happened to putting bounties on peoples heads? or lvl 1-10 juggernaut? You grind gear to beat the shit out of people... Not just sit there and look at the pixels on your shoulders that you worked so hard to attain. I really really really dont care if its not balanced. GIMME SOME SORT OF RANKING SYSTEM. some sort of reward. Not something to show how much of a life i dont have.... "im a lvl 20 pvper". Come on....

Now i am going back to what i said before... this game seemed to have so much potential for some end game pvp. Which btw is the biggest part of end game. The PVP. Not rerolling. I cant believe Jay had the balls to say that was end game by the way. THATS NOT FREAKING END GAME. THATS beginning game. Anyway... they are possibly changing the arena into a ten minute deathmatch instead of round based? Can these people get any more stupid? I cant believe blizzard is letting these people get away with some of these ideas... So you join a 2v2 for ten minutes, and lets say you are getting steam rolled. you are going to keep getting steam rolled for ten minutes? Thats horrible. Lets say you are the ones steam rolling, you dont want to sit there for ten minutes killing the same two people over and over. Thats ridiculous. Where is the honor in that? "ok we destroyed those guys... i feel bad for them... hopefully the next team will be a little more challenging" Yea it should be round based and be over quick. And have some God damn rating attached to it THAT I CAN FREAKING SEE. not some invisable shit. A reward... please.. anything to keep people interested. If they want this game to be great, YOU CANT TELL YOUR OWN STAFF TO SHUTUP BECAUSE ITS COOL FOR PVE. Jay wilson should be fired after that interview. He clearly doesnt have the competancy to be the "mastermind" of this beautiful game that he is on the verge of destroying.

I probably wont have alot of followers on this, (i probably wont go through with it myself) but us PVPers should boycott this game completly... Dont freaking buy this shit.. and then they will see just how "small" the pvp community is. Set their shit straight. "O.. maybe we should try and satisfy both sides of the spectrum of gamers."... no shit sherlock.

It seems as though their biggest concern is balancing will get in the way. I agree... pvp should not change pve at all. They should stay seperate. But is it really that hard of programming to make it to were abilities do different things to PLAYERS? Less damage? Not like resilence, but maybe the tooltip could say "Does X% less dmg to players in the arena.. or during a duel" Seems simple to me. But i am not a programmer so maybe i am wrong.

Quote from blaqstomp

Quote from Diisfunk

Imo it will be Barb because he has 2 movement skills and is a damage dealer tank.

Who do you think will be the best char to PvP with?

Imo it will be the Monk because he can heal and do nasty burst and he seems like he can control fights really well (he also seems mega fun)


OPINIONS?

I'm guessing there will be more movement skills being unveiled for the other classes throughout the beta. They said each class will have their own movement type skills like teleport, shadow walk, and the barbs ones like you mentioned. It would be interesting though to watch a barb fly around the screen as a dh tries to hit them with any accuracy. :-P

Quote from Seluhir

Wait... you're assuming that even anywhere CLOSE to a majority of gamers read up enough to know that it wouldn't be a priority. I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong. Most of the people who would use a pvp system wouldn't read enough to nkow that, they would use it and be STRONGLY angered and disappointed that it wasn't balanced. Why? Because it was in the game, and it damnwell should be balanced if it's there and ranked!

Most of the people ON THIS FORUM would read enough to know that, but I guarantee you this forum represents the BAREST minority of people interested in d3.

Quote from ShadowGoat

Quote from Nuvian

What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.

And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...

Diablo 2 PvP was open ended. Diablo 3 PvP is being forced casual.
RM AH requires development cycles to create. They are spending those cycles on a much smaller community (people who want to spend real money) rather than on a bigger community (people who PvP competitively). Also, managing a RM AH will be very resource intensive. Your dealing with peoples REAL MONEY. You need a lot of support. At the bare minimum, Blizzard would just need to keep PvP very open ended for it to be competitive. No balancing required (this is not an e-sport).

Quote from lolx2

having a ladder will not correct a bad pvp system for exemple.

So lets say barbarian are overpowered and witch doctor totally suck (its my first char, cant wait) So in the ranking well see ton of barbarian, even 3v3 of barbarians because they will be OP. WHY?! because they dont balance the pvp. Second, if the deathmatch is the only sort of pvp, do we ladder the team or the single individual? by what stat? number of kills? why? a witchdoctor who helped you root the barbarian and feared the sorceress to give more time for you to pewpew wont go up in ranking? So that make a very shitty ladder with only the overpowered class at the top and the shitty one at the bottom, yay!

Diablo is really a bad game for pvp and even worst one for ladder. its not an e-sport, its not build for that, its made to be pve and it is said from the start. Its like youre friend say he will give you a toaster but in youre head you keep wishing for an oven, it wont happen... not right now, not at release.

and the RMT has totally nothing to do with pvp, not even the same team.

edit: im going to be flammed for that but i tought D2 pvp sucked. I did it only because i was tired of doing run and levels to friends. Sometime i got a good fight but mostly it was crybaby using portals and potion, running everywhere on the map playing hide and seek. Lemme remember it right with a sorc... hmm .. bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport etc... (an exemple, dont go juge like crazy over a simple exemple) or against a barbarian? bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move etc. Against a paladin? Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot etc.

i gave some exemple, really really basic because of course there is more into it but how much it did happen? After that, people keep telling me! owmegawd! D2 pvp is sooooOOOooo awes0me! I played a ton of games all along the years that pvp was way more interesting seriously

1. I was not saying a ladder would correct the system. It's just a feature I personally would enjoy.

2. Look at my above response about the RM AH

3. You have your own opinion about D2 PvP. You obviously PvP'd against amateurs. I personally played a lot of SvB (on both sides) and a good barbarian could actually hold his own against a Sorc with teleport. People found ways to make things work even if the game was super unbalanced.

Quote from Zero(pS)

I'd love all these "features" and I don't really think people would bitch about it, because everybody would know beforehand "the design philosophy".

I don't think they should just stay 100% away from it, specially if they know we'll turn it into a major deal. Just make sure it's fully featured and let people know that balance won't be a "top priority" and we'll never have "PvP specific items" - that would be good enough.

Although anything like a "wager" system would be decent enough for me, just to have fun with my friends. And maybe just a "symbolic reward" - like being able to sell "ears" for gold =P

Quote from _incarnate_

Quote from Diisfunk

WE DON'T WANT AN E-SPORT ARE YOU ALL BLIND

Is it that hard to understand? Stop repeating that

The font is too big, I can't make out the words. It looks like it says something to the effect of:

"WEWANTDIABLOTOBEANESPORTANDWILLKICKPUPPIESTOGETIT" or something...

Quote from Seluhir

There's a pretty simple reason not to make pvp majorly competetive.

Once you put in a system where people are ranked, then you have to work on balance. This game isn't like WoW where you have a pretty finite number of builds or sc2 where you have a finite number of units. This game has in the millions of potential combinations per character. Balancing that would probably take decades of work... and do you REALLY want the game to be delayed to 2042 just so they can put in a solid competetive pvp system? That is of course assuming balancing it would even be POSSIBLE with that many combinations.