Some people don't have the time to farm for great items endlessly. They would rather spend their time working and spend that money on their hobby (in this case a game). Who the FUCK do you think you are to tell them they can't? Hell, it's much more productive than someone who sits on their ass all day farming.
Furthermore, I'll be glad to take their money so I can sit on my ass and play more Diablo 3.
Everybody wins except the idealist who thinks it's somehow inherently wrong to spend money on a game or for a player to make money off of a game. Actually the idealist wins too, because once he realizes there's no downside to a system where people spend real cash to in effect support a community of hardcore gamers be able to play the game they love even more he will accept the system wholeheartedly.
There was not a single personal attack in my entire response. I attacked your arguments directly with strong language. I'm sorry if you can't handle big boy talk. I don't care to respond to your most recent post because your points have all been thoroughly refuted, yet you alter your arguments by saying "what I really meant was.." "The point I was trying to make was.." Everything I posted is what I really meant. Re-read it if you have any questions.
I'm using the Witch Doctor ability Corpse Spiders in this example. Say I want to place my spiders 3 feet in front of an oncoming monsters rather than right on top to MAXIMIZE DPS UPTIME OF MY SPIDERS AS THE MOB MOVES THROUGH THEM. I am unable to do this because even at that distance the system auto targets the mob and I'm forced to place them either too far, or right on top where the monster no longer is (considering moving toward me).
This would also apply to any attack that has an AoE or piercing effect. They simply can not be used for maximum efficiency with the current targeting system in specific situations.
1. Winner take all arenas - Items/gold put up beforehand and winning team takes all - you don't have to participate, but for those that do what a rush and motivation to win!
This will never happen. I'm no lawyer, but it seems pretty clear to me that this would violate US gambling laws since the digital goods could then be converted to real money. Even if I'm wrong legally, Blizzard isn't going to even give the appearance that they promote gambling because US politicians would come down on them like a ton of bricks.
Although I think you're completely wrong (look at online gambling), why don't we leave the legality to the experts and focus on whether the idea is the fucking shit or not. I believe it to be, and think it would be a wonderful thing for the game. NOTE: THE GREAT THING IS YOU WILL NEVER BE FORCED TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY OF THE OFFERED MODES. KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN REPLYING PLEASE.
2. DoTA - "Defense of the Ancients" For those of you not familiar with the popular genre some quick examples to check out would be Heroes of Newerth, League of Legends, or DoTA mods in Warcraft. In Diablo, DoTA would look very similar but, in my opinion, has the potential to be exponentially more fun due to the fact that it's YOUR character, not a character that will be gone after the game ends. Your hero will compete alongside other heros and hordes of monsters contending with opposing heros and their hordes of monsters to accomplish objectives, kill opposing forces, or slay enemy heros. Your team's monster's become more powerful (as do you) as these objectives are completed until the final objective (destroying the enemy base) is accomplished.
DoTA would be somewhat inherently balanced because of the fact that monsters would be equated in terms of stat distribution until objectives are accomplished and they grow stronger. Winner takes all mode and possibly a ranking system would be great additions!
Unless you're suggesting this be PvE, it seems like this would very much imply a support of eSports which is contrary to Blizzard's stated goals for D3. Also, while it'd be cool, Blizzard wouldn't be able to just tack it on in a week of developer time. They'd have to polish it to Blizzard standards and support it, and people would expect proper balance and support for eSports, and, and, and. I just don't see Blizzard committing to something like this except maybe as a last-ditch effort to try to save D3 if it fails spectacularly. Not that I think it will, mind you.
I'm not sure if you read my entire post or not, but I specifically stated that the fantastic thing about DoTA would be that it would have somewhat of inherent balance because of the addition of PvE mobs fighting alongside heroes, thus lessening the overall balance conundrum that "arena deathmatch" pvp inevitably appears to bring. In essence, you're fighting against AI AND players, not just pitted against X player build vs. X player build. More dynamics thus lessening the overall impact of a single potentially "overpowered" build. I just realized I'm getting drug back into the "balance" argument again. I'm done arguing about balance, period. The nature of this type of genre is inherently unbalanced, and that DOES NOT mean that competitive PvP can not or should not exist. Furhtermore, if you go to the front page it appears that Jay Wilson has had a change of heart about PvP. Most likely due to the OVERWHELMING support for it by the player base. I suggest you go watch the most recent developer interview. Yes this is a PvE centered game, and I believe this mode in particular (also horde mode and content racing) are a fantastic blend of competition, PvE, AND PvP to satisfy the majority of gamers.
As far as design time goes, I actually got this idea from a rumor that was going around that the devs were talking about developing this specific mode for Diablo 3. No idea if there's any truth to this, but even if there is not I'd be willing to wait for the design if the idea is sound.
3. Content racing - Teams race through content to see who can finish first. For the PvM centered competitionist! See who can finish that boss off the quickest, who can escort that NPC faster, or who can clear an event most efficiently! Great for making a name for your Clan or group of friends!
This could be kind of cool. How much developer work it would be would depend on how their backend systems are set up, and I'm not sure how they'd promote it or incentivize it. Still, it sounds interesting.
Not sure why you're commenting on how much developer work would be involved. That's really not your place or mine to comment on because we simply will never have the information to make an intelligent analysis. Please keep your comments focused on the topic.
4. Horde Mode - Team compete to see who can hold off hoards of monsters for longer. A beautiful mix of competition and monster slaying fitting the Diablo theme perfectly! A ranking system for who held out for how long would be a great competitive addition!
This could be cool and it could fill peoples' competitive itch. The only concern I have is how they'd incentivize it, but that's mostly me being paranoid. I just wouldn't want to see something like this as a daily quest, give items which benefit general PvE, etc., because then it'd just become a chore. I'm probably just jaded from LotRO though.
I see it more as a prestige thing. I.e. keep a record of what "team" has lasted the longest. Also we could have winner takes all modes and cosmetic or even item rewards. This mode is great because it adds a competitive atmosphere but is catered to the PvE player, which is exactly in line with what you (and others) believe Diablo 3 should be focused on.
5. "Objective" Based PvP - Think capture the flag, protect the vip, hold the fortress, etc. Great for competitive PvP that would not require razor edge balancing efforts due to the objective based play!
I don't think this will happen because of the WoW comparisons it would naturally draw. However, I could be wrong and this may be what they've delayed PvP for. I don't know what else they could be doing between launch and when PvP goes live.
I really don't comprehend some of your arguments. Because of the WoW comparisons it would draw? What the fuck kind of dumbass argument is that? There's literally countless comparisons that I could draw right now between Diablo 3 and WoW. Just because I can do that doesn't make all of those comparisons bad ideas. WoW was a FANTASTIC game. LEARN from it's mistakes. MAKE THINGS BETTER. EVOLVE. ADAPT. STOP THINKING LIKE CAVEMEN PLEASE.
All formats should have competitive rankings to induce competition and most importantly A REASON TO STRIVE TO WIN! Of course all of this is wishful thinking, but sure sounds amazing AND WOULDN'T REQUIRE E-Sports balancing or detract from the PvM side of the game in any way (it may actually compliment it! Read below!)
I'm not sure what you mean here. Introducing competitive ranking is exactly what Blizzard keeps saying they don't want to do because it absolutely would detract from PvE due to balancing concerns and customer expectations which accompany competitive PvP. Also, when you say, "a reason to strive to win," are you talking about leaderboards, custom gear or what? For the record, I don't like the idea of all of those, but still, I'm curious.
Wrong. The developers have stated that they don't want to encourage support of a system that caters to PvP balance at the expense of the PvE game. That's it. And I COMPLETELY AND WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO DO IN THIS TYPE OF GAME GENRE WHICH IS WHY THE BALANCE ARGUMENT IS UTTER BULLSHIT TO BEGIN WITH. There is literally infinite room in between those two extremes. What you have done here is take their words and twist them to an extreme by saying that there can be NO COMPETITION WHATSOEVER because PvP balance will not take a front seat in development. I hope you see the fallacy in this logic. It's a very extreme stance, and to be honest somewhat insulting to people who want to enjoy a well-rounded game.
Competition can take many forms - I'm not NECESSARILY talking about leader board or ladders, but rather ANY incentive that drives a player to perform their best to win. I.e. an item/gold up for grabs, a cosmetic look, a title, a banner symbol. There are literally countless ideas that would incentivize players to participate and fuel some epic conflicts.
The possibilities for incredible game modes in Diablo 3 are very diverse and the character builds/gear setups that would arise for each game mode would be literally infinite. This would have a wonderful indirect effect of stimulating even more trade in Diablo, thus providing an amazing synergistic effect that would be inexpressibly fun to participate in! Furthermore these game modes would provide virtually infinite replaybility to Diablo 3 and generate player motivation to continue farming/trading/PLAYING for years to come!
Again, I disagree. I think you are right; unless one happens to not enjoy PvP. I don't believe that serious, competitive PvP can be done without detracting from PvE and D3 devs are on record saying they think it would absolutely hurt PvE. I also fail to see how shifting the value of different gear pieces from what they'd be without the above systems to what they'd be with them makes anything more fun.
Then don't participate. That's a stupid fucking argument to make. You don't like PvP so others can't enjoy it either? Fucking ridiculous.
Sounds like you never participated in PvP in WoW or Diablo. Finding unique ways to gear your character to gain advantage was a huge part of both, ESPECIALLY Diablo 2 where trading was rampant. Dupes fucked everything up but I imagine it would of been absolutely amazing participating in that system without them. Hopefully Diablo 3 can fix this gigantic flaw.
Now maybe I'm getting too far ahead of myself. The game isn't even released yet and we haven't even seen content past level 13, BUT over some time browsing forums and conversing with other players I have conglomerated some ideas that I feel would add some wonderful competitive flavor alongside (and even synergising with) the monster slaying and loot hunting that Diablo is all about.
The positively incredible thing about game modes is that they don't require the promotion of razor-edge e-sports type balancing because they very nature is OBJECTIVE based. I.e. you're not simply there to test X build and X class composition vs. X build and X class composition. There are various other factors to consider when objectives become of supreme importance, such as speed/avoidance/stealth/distraction/logistics etc.
What will you do after you've slain virtually every monster numerous times and you're in the mood to see what all that phat lewt can do?
GAME MODES MY FRIENDS!
Please read through the whole list before passing judgement that I'm just a PvP fanatic. There are game modes for every type of player.
Without further ado:
1. Winner take all arenas - Items/gold put up beforehand and winning team takes all - you don't have to participate, but for those that do what a rush and motivation to win!
2. DoTA - "Defense of the Ancients" For those of you not familiar with the popular genre some quick examples to check out would be Heroes of Newerth, League of Legends, or DoTA mods in Warcraft.
In Diablo, DoTA would look very similar but, in my opinion, has the potential to be exponentially more fun due to the fact that it's YOUR character, not a character that will be gone after the game ends.
Your hero will compete alongside other heros and hordes of monsters contending with opposing heros and their hordes of monsters to accomplish objectives, kill opposing forces, or slay enemy heros.
Your team's monster's become more powerful (as do you) as these objectives are completed until the final objective (destroying the enemy base) is accomplished.
DoTA would be somewhat inherently balanced because of the fact that monsters would be equated in terms of stat distribution until objectives are accomplished and they grow stronger.
Winner takes all mode and possibly a ranking system would be great additions!
3. Content racing - Teams race through content to see who can finish first. For the PvM centered competitionist! See who can finish that boss off the quickest, who can escort that NPC faster, or who can clear an event most efficiently!
Great for making a name for your Clan or group of friends!
4. Horde Mode - Team compete to see who can hold off hoards of monsters for longer. A beautiful mix of competition and monster slaying fitting the Diablo theme perfectly!
A ranking system for who held out for how long would be a great competitive addition!
5. "Objective" Based PvP - Think capture the flag, protect the vip, hold the fortress, etc.
Great for competitive PvP that would not require razor edge balancing efforts due to the objective based play!
All formats should have competitive rankings to induce competition and most importantly A REASON TO STRIVE TO WIN!
Of course all of this is wishful thinking, but sure sounds amazing AND WOULDN'T REQUIRE E-Sports balancing or detract from the PvM side of the game in any way (it may actually compliment it! Read below!)
The possibilities for incredible game modes in Diablo 3 are very diverse and the character builds/gear setups that would arise for each game mode would be literally infinite.
This would have a wonderful indirect effect of stimulating even more trade in Diablo, thus providing an amazing synergistic effect that would be inexpressibly fun to participate in!
Furthermore these game modes would provide virtually infinite replaybility to Diablo 3 and generate player motivation to continue farming/trading/PLAYING for years to come!
Great thing is my imagination sucks. I'm sure you guys can come up with even better stuff!
Balance is no longer a viable argument. I'm SO TIRED OF HEARING IT IN EVERY THREAD. If you have a copy of WoW, Diablo 3, or for god's sake any other game on this earth, you have the exact same tools at your fingertips as your opponent. Yes there are different classes, yes there are different compositions to run, NO YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO RUN A CERTAIN CLASS OR COMPOSITION. IF SOMETHING IS UNBALANCED, OR OVERPOWERED, THEN OUTPLAY THE OTHER TEAM RUNNING THEIR EXACT SAME COMP. WHAT BETTER COUNTER THAN THAT IF THE ONLY REASON YOU CAN'T WIN IS "IMBALANCE."
Imbalance is just a word scrubs use when they lose. Yes, of course there are classes that are more powerful in certain situations. That is the fucking nature of this genre of game. THAT DOESN'T MEAN ALL COMPETITION SHOULD BE TRASHED. IT SIMPLY ADDS ANOTHER LAYER OF COMPETITION THAT IS FUCKING FUN AS BALLS TO TWEAK AND SUCCEED. It's more like CHESS than Checkers. For god's sake STFU ABOUT BALANCE IF YOU'RE TOO DAMN IGNORANT TO COMPREHEND IT'S MEANING.
FURTHERMORE Diablo 3 will have much a more FLUID skill system that will allow for tweak "on the fly," i.e. between arena matches, for example. Juxtaposition to WoW arena, this opens up an ENTIRELY NEW WORLD OF COUNTERS that simply can not be fully understood yet. In WoW there were X amout of "viable" talent builds, with x being VERY limited. In Diablo 3 I predict it will be much, much more versatile. Say you're playing a Mage against a Monk with Dashing Strike. You don't realize this at first, but after getting pummeled over and over with your oh-so-op teleport runed with wormhole (because dashing strike is essentially spam-able compared to teleport) you decide to counter this by switching out teleport with Frost Nova (for example) and pick up some more defense oriented abilities (say energy armor/diamond skin/teleport runed with safe passage etc.) because you know that thanks to Dashing Strike, you're simply going to take a lot of melee hits. The Monk counters this by picking up Serenity with Tranquility (to hopefully counter the Nova) and Breath of Heaven to provide more outlast potential because he can't simply spam his right mouse button and stay on the Mage's nuts indefinitely. And on and on it goes. This would only get more strategic with the addition of players to formulate teams. Most "retards" in this situation would just cry about how overpowered dashing strike is. And hell, it may well be (sure looks like it to me), but there are always options, especially in the insanely diverse amount of abilities that Diablo 3 is making available. The absolutist point would be to go roll a damn Monk if it's so overpowered. Don't sit there getting shit all over for weeks on your Mage bawling about how OP the Monk is. Or don't, I don't care, I just don't want to hear you bitching about balance when there's always an option available to you if you're willing to take it.
Furious Charge with Merciless Assault seems far too good to pass up from a mobility perspective. It basically allows you to be anywhere on the battlefield at whim, which is simply invaluable for any melee character. Does anyone know if FC works exactly like dashing strike? I.e. if you hit no target with it (such as in escape situations) there is a slight delay at the end of the effect essentially negating it's movement bonus. Judging by the video, it looks to me that there is a slight delay at the end of the effect, but it's hard to judge because the player is actually hitting the monster when he charges. I hope this is not the case, but this would certainly mitigate it's overall usefullness as an escape tool on top of a virtually essential battle mobility tool.
With the current system, say you have a demon hunter and you are surrounded on 2 sides with monsters in a narrow hallway with a mix of skeletons (low DPS) and zombies (higher dps). With the current system, you would be FORCED to click on either a skeleton -OR- a Zombie to vault to, and then vault again out of danger. You're essentially being limited to choosing "X" amount of vault paths out of danger, "X" being vault range multiplied by the number of monsters in that range (since your screen is covered) RATHER than being able to choose ANY vault path to MINIMIZE the amount of hits you would be taking by ZOMBIES. I hope that makes sense. It is really difficult to explain, but I assure you it's a huge problem AND TAKES A GIANT SKILL CAP AWAY FROM THE PLAYER.
With a system that does not "auto target," the player would be able to choose any Vault pathing out of dangerous situations of your choosing, rather than being limited to vaulting to monsters in some cases.
Another issue I notice when playing the Witch Doctor is with the spider ability. Say for example I want to place my spiders 3 feet in front of an oncoming monsters rather than right on top to MAXIMIZE DPS UPTIME OF MY SPIDERS AS THE MOB MOVES THROUGH THEM. I am unable to do this because even at that distance the system auto targets the mob and I'm forced to place them either too far, or right on top where the monster no longer is (considering moving toward me).
I hope I explained that well enough. And please don't comment with "just be skilled enough not to click monsters." because that's simply not what I'm referring to. If you understand how the targetting system works, even if you click close to a monster it auto-selects it, even further disallowing the use of skillful, pinpoint positioning for certain abilities that WILL require this. ESPECIALLY FOR THE HARDCORE PLAYER. THIS CAN AND WILL MEAN LIFE OR DEATH.
3 fixes:
1. Provide an option to remove auto targeting.
2. Make holding SHIFT (or another modifier) remove the targeting feature. (this is probably the BEST fix, because if you think about it when holding shift you're either trying to stand in place to make sure your positioning is correct or trying to place an ability properly).
3. Remove targeting limitation from specific skills that don't need it (i.e. POSITIONING SKILLS - spirit walk, leap, dashing strike, vault, etc.)
4. Any combination of these 3.
This is a copy of a post I made in the beta feedback forums. Read and think about this issue carefully. It will affect each and every player, and ESPECIALLY those of us planning to play Hardcore who require near flawless gameplay to succeed.
I'll be compiling a list of hardcore veterans and weeding out the retards slowly but surely. Expect a solid list of competent players relatively quickly post release.
Gaming History: Diablo 1, Diablo 2 (classic-lod), WoW (2x r1 with DK and Lock, Glad on Rogue/Warrior, Placed first at ESL online tournament as PHD). Produced videos for Skill-Capped.com as one of their first contributors for ~ a year.
This thread is dedicated to creating a community of Hardcore veteran players in an effort to provide a network of communication, team play, strategy, trade, and anything else that may synergistically benefit our goal of succeeding in hardcore. Expect a compilation of capable hardcore veterans relatively soon post-release. Retards will be weeded as-needed.
Format is as follows:
Alias:(name you will most likely be identified by at release)
While I consider myself a hardcore player I personally think this approach is ignorant. What would be far more effective is to garner a solid group of players to play, trade, strategize together without the "rush" element. There is absolutely no reason to rush to 60, especially considering levels mean far less in Diablo 3 than in other games. Calm down, take it slow, and focus on not dying while filtering out the retards who will get you killed that are sure to be bountiful. I guarantee you this will grant you more success in the long run.
One thing I've learned over years of gaming is not to let your schedule dictate who you play with. There's absolutely no reason not to develop a large network of friends and play with whoever is available at the times you're able to play. It's definitely better than being forced into pugging with retards every time you log on, especially if those retards can cost you your character. Pugging will probably be a death sentence in high level hardcore play, making a large network of hardcore players invaluable to success.
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Furthermore, I'll be glad to take their money so I can sit on my ass and play more Diablo 3.
Everybody wins except the idealist who thinks it's somehow inherently wrong to spend money on a game or for a player to make money off of a game. Actually the idealist wins too, because once he realizes there's no downside to a system where people spend real cash to in effect support a community of hardcore gamers be able to play the game they love even more he will accept the system wholeheartedly.
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One of the best example I can give is this:
I'm using the Witch Doctor ability Corpse Spiders in this example. Say I want to place my spiders 3 feet in front of an oncoming monsters rather than right on top to MAXIMIZE DPS UPTIME OF MY SPIDERS AS THE MOB MOVES THROUGH THEM. I am unable to do this because even at that distance the system auto targets the mob and I'm forced to place them either too far, or right on top where the monster no longer is (considering moving toward me).
This would also apply to any attack that has an AoE or piercing effect. They simply can not be used for maximum efficiency with the current targeting system in specific situations.
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Although I think you're completely wrong (look at online gambling), why don't we leave the legality to the experts and focus on whether the idea is the fucking shit or not. I believe it to be, and think it would be a wonderful thing for the game. NOTE: THE GREAT THING IS YOU WILL NEVER BE FORCED TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY OF THE OFFERED MODES. KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN REPLYING PLEASE.
2. DoTA - "Defense of the Ancients" For those of you not familiar with the popular genre some quick examples to check out would be Heroes of Newerth, League of Legends, or DoTA mods in Warcraft. In Diablo, DoTA would look very similar but, in my opinion, has the potential to be exponentially more fun due to the fact that it's YOUR character, not a character that will be gone after the game ends. Your hero will compete alongside other heros and hordes of monsters contending with opposing heros and their hordes of monsters to accomplish objectives, kill opposing forces, or slay enemy heros. Your team's monster's become more powerful (as do you) as these objectives are completed until the final objective (destroying the enemy base) is accomplished.
DoTA would be somewhat inherently balanced because of the fact that monsters would be equated in terms of stat distribution until objectives are accomplished and they grow stronger. Winner takes all mode and possibly a ranking system would be great additions!
I'm not sure if you read my entire post or not, but I specifically stated that the fantastic thing about DoTA would be that it would have somewhat of inherent balance because of the addition of PvE mobs fighting alongside heroes, thus lessening the overall balance conundrum that "arena deathmatch" pvp inevitably appears to bring. In essence, you're fighting against AI AND players, not just pitted against X player build vs. X player build. More dynamics thus lessening the overall impact of a single potentially "overpowered" build. I just realized I'm getting drug back into the "balance" argument again. I'm done arguing about balance, period. The nature of this type of genre is inherently unbalanced, and that DOES NOT mean that competitive PvP can not or should not exist. Furhtermore, if you go to the front page it appears that Jay Wilson has had a change of heart about PvP. Most likely due to the OVERWHELMING support for it by the player base. I suggest you go watch the most recent developer interview. Yes this is a PvE centered game, and I believe this mode in particular (also horde mode and content racing) are a fantastic blend of competition, PvE, AND PvP to satisfy the majority of gamers.
As far as design time goes, I actually got this idea from a rumor that was going around that the devs were talking about developing this specific mode for Diablo 3. No idea if there's any truth to this, but even if there is not I'd be willing to wait for the design if the idea is sound.
3. Content racing - Teams race through content to see who can finish first. For the PvM centered competitionist! See who can finish that boss off the quickest, who can escort that NPC faster, or who can clear an event most efficiently! Great for making a name for your Clan or group of friends!
Not sure why you're commenting on how much developer work would be involved. That's really not your place or mine to comment on because we simply will never have the information to make an intelligent analysis. Please keep your comments focused on the topic.
4. Horde Mode - Team compete to see who can hold off hoards of monsters for longer. A beautiful mix of competition and monster slaying fitting the Diablo theme perfectly! A ranking system for who held out for how long would be a great competitive addition!
I see it more as a prestige thing. I.e. keep a record of what "team" has lasted the longest. Also we could have winner takes all modes and cosmetic or even item rewards. This mode is great because it adds a competitive atmosphere but is catered to the PvE player, which is exactly in line with what you (and others) believe Diablo 3 should be focused on.
5. "Objective" Based PvP - Think capture the flag, protect the vip, hold the fortress, etc. Great for competitive PvP that would not require razor edge balancing efforts due to the objective based play!
I really don't comprehend some of your arguments. Because of the WoW comparisons it would draw? What the fuck kind of dumbass argument is that? There's literally countless comparisons that I could draw right now between Diablo 3 and WoW. Just because I can do that doesn't make all of those comparisons bad ideas. WoW was a FANTASTIC game. LEARN from it's mistakes. MAKE THINGS BETTER. EVOLVE. ADAPT. STOP THINKING LIKE CAVEMEN PLEASE.
All formats should have competitive rankings to induce competition and most importantly A REASON TO STRIVE TO WIN! Of course all of this is wishful thinking, but sure sounds amazing AND WOULDN'T REQUIRE E-Sports balancing or detract from the PvM side of the game in any way (it may actually compliment it! Read below!)
Wrong. The developers have stated that they don't want to encourage support of a system that caters to PvP balance at the expense of the PvE game. That's it. And I COMPLETELY AND WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO DO IN THIS TYPE OF GAME GENRE WHICH IS WHY THE BALANCE ARGUMENT IS UTTER BULLSHIT TO BEGIN WITH. There is literally infinite room in between those two extremes. What you have done here is take their words and twist them to an extreme by saying that there can be NO COMPETITION WHATSOEVER because PvP balance will not take a front seat in development. I hope you see the fallacy in this logic. It's a very extreme stance, and to be honest somewhat insulting to people who want to enjoy a well-rounded game.
Competition can take many forms - I'm not NECESSARILY talking about leader board or ladders, but rather ANY incentive that drives a player to perform their best to win. I.e. an item/gold up for grabs, a cosmetic look, a title, a banner symbol. There are literally countless ideas that would incentivize players to participate and fuel some epic conflicts.
Then don't participate. That's a stupid fucking argument to make. You don't like PvP so others can't enjoy it either? Fucking ridiculous.
Sounds like you never participated in PvP in WoW or Diablo. Finding unique ways to gear your character to gain advantage was a huge part of both, ESPECIALLY Diablo 2 where trading was rampant. Dupes fucked everything up but I imagine it would of been absolutely amazing participating in that system without them. Hopefully Diablo 3 can fix this gigantic flaw.
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The positively incredible thing about game modes is that they don't require the promotion of razor-edge e-sports type balancing because they very nature is OBJECTIVE based. I.e. you're not simply there to test X build and X class composition vs. X build and X class composition. There are various other factors to consider when objectives become of supreme importance, such as speed/avoidance/stealth/distraction/logistics etc.
What will you do after you've slain virtually every monster numerous times and you're in the mood to see what all that phat lewt can do?
GAME MODES MY FRIENDS!
Please read through the whole list before passing judgement that I'm just a PvP fanatic. There are game modes for every type of player.
Without further ado:
1. Winner take all arenas - Items/gold put up beforehand and winning team takes all - you don't have to participate, but for those that do what a rush and motivation to win!
2. DoTA - "Defense of the Ancients" For those of you not familiar with the popular genre some quick examples to check out would be Heroes of Newerth, League of Legends, or DoTA mods in Warcraft.
In Diablo, DoTA would look very similar but, in my opinion, has the potential to be exponentially more fun due to the fact that it's YOUR character, not a character that will be gone after the game ends.
Your hero will compete alongside other heros and hordes of monsters contending with opposing heros and their hordes of monsters to accomplish objectives, kill opposing forces, or slay enemy heros.
Your team's monster's become more powerful (as do you) as these objectives are completed until the final objective (destroying the enemy base) is accomplished.
DoTA would be somewhat inherently balanced because of the fact that monsters would be equated in terms of stat distribution until objectives are accomplished and they grow stronger.
Winner takes all mode and possibly a ranking system would be great additions!
3. Content racing - Teams race through content to see who can finish first. For the PvM centered competitionist! See who can finish that boss off the quickest, who can escort that NPC faster, or who can clear an event most efficiently!
Great for making a name for your Clan or group of friends!
4. Horde Mode - Team compete to see who can hold off hoards of monsters for longer. A beautiful mix of competition and monster slaying fitting the Diablo theme perfectly!
A ranking system for who held out for how long would be a great competitive addition!
5. "Objective" Based PvP - Think capture the flag, protect the vip, hold the fortress, etc.
Great for competitive PvP that would not require razor edge balancing efforts due to the objective based play!
All formats should have competitive rankings to induce competition and most importantly A REASON TO STRIVE TO WIN!
Of course all of this is wishful thinking, but sure sounds amazing AND WOULDN'T REQUIRE E-Sports balancing or detract from the PvM side of the game in any way (it may actually compliment it! Read below!)
The possibilities for incredible game modes in Diablo 3 are very diverse and the character builds/gear setups that would arise for each game mode would be literally infinite.
This would have a wonderful indirect effect of stimulating even more trade in Diablo, thus providing an amazing synergistic effect that would be inexpressibly fun to participate in!
Furthermore these game modes would provide virtually infinite replaybility to Diablo 3 and generate player motivation to continue farming/trading/PLAYING for years to come!
Great thing is my imagination sucks. I'm sure you guys can come up with even better stuff!
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Imbalance is just a word scrubs use when they lose. Yes, of course there are classes that are more powerful in certain situations. That is the fucking nature of this genre of game. THAT DOESN'T MEAN ALL COMPETITION SHOULD BE TRASHED. IT SIMPLY ADDS ANOTHER LAYER OF COMPETITION THAT IS FUCKING FUN AS BALLS TO TWEAK AND SUCCEED. It's more like CHESS than Checkers. For god's sake STFU ABOUT BALANCE IF YOU'RE TOO DAMN IGNORANT TO COMPREHEND IT'S MEANING.
FURTHERMORE Diablo 3 will have much a more FLUID skill system that will allow for tweak "on the fly," i.e. between arena matches, for example. Juxtaposition to WoW arena, this opens up an ENTIRELY NEW WORLD OF COUNTERS that simply can not be fully understood yet. In WoW there were X amout of "viable" talent builds, with x being VERY limited. In Diablo 3 I predict it will be much, much more versatile. Say you're playing a Mage against a Monk with Dashing Strike. You don't realize this at first, but after getting pummeled over and over with your oh-so-op teleport runed with wormhole (because dashing strike is essentially spam-able compared to teleport) you decide to counter this by switching out teleport with Frost Nova (for example) and pick up some more defense oriented abilities (say energy armor/diamond skin/teleport runed with safe passage etc.) because you know that thanks to Dashing Strike, you're simply going to take a lot of melee hits. The Monk counters this by picking up Serenity with Tranquility (to hopefully counter the Nova) and Breath of Heaven to provide more outlast potential because he can't simply spam his right mouse button and stay on the Mage's nuts indefinitely. And on and on it goes. This would only get more strategic with the addition of players to formulate teams. Most "retards" in this situation would just cry about how overpowered dashing strike is. And hell, it may well be (sure looks like it to me), but there are always options, especially in the insanely diverse amount of abilities that Diablo 3 is making available. The absolutist point would be to go roll a damn Monk if it's so overpowered. Don't sit there getting shit all over for weeks on your Mage bawling about how OP the Monk is. Or don't, I don't care, I just don't want to hear you bitching about balance when there's always an option available to you if you're willing to take it.
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This is a copy of a post I made in the beta feedback forums. Read and think about this issue carefully. It will affect each and every player, and ESPECIALLY those of us planning to play Hardcore who require near flawless gameplay to succeed.
Please bump or agree:
http://us.battle.net...449075?page=1#0
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I'll be compiling a list of hardcore veterans and weeding out the retards slowly but surely. Expect a solid list of competent players relatively quickly post release.
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Skype: lafuqt
Battletag: doc#1765
Aim: loboniga
E-Mail: Austin.Moore00@gmail.com/loboniga50@msn.com
Gaming History: Diablo 1, Diablo 2 (classic-lod), WoW (2x r1 with DK and Lock, Glad on Rogue/Warrior, Placed first at ESL online tournament as PHD). Produced videos for Skill-Capped.com as one of their first contributors for ~ a year.
Class 1/2: Witch Doctor/Barbarian
Time Zone/Server: Central/US East
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Format is as follows:
Alias: (name you will most likely be identified by at release)
Skype:
Battletag:
(Any other form of contact you wish to provide):
Gaming History: (short)
Most likely class/Second most likely class:
Time Zone and preferred server: (US West/East)
No monster posts. Keep it short and sweet please!
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