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Quote from Nektu

This is more theory crafting. Moving topic there.

Heh, valid point. My apologies

I've seen a lot of people confuse the two. % weapon damage and bonus damage are two totally different parts of the damage equations. I don't know the damage equations, I just know these two things are separate. Allow me to elaborate.

Max yellow runed Weapon Throw with max Fury does 1290% weapon damage. If our weapon damage is 1, we do 12.90 damage with Weapon Throw. This is our skill's base damage - 1290% weapon damage.

If we then apply a Battle Rage with max red rune, we are given a 100% damage bonus. Well our damage is 12.9 with a 1 weapon damage, so 12.9 + (12.9 * 1.00) = 25.8 damage.

I've read people say this is incorrect and it should just be 1390% weapon damage or 13.9 damage. This logic is flawed. Battle Rage, and bonus modifiers like it, do not say "increase skills that use weapon damage as a factor by an additional 100% weapon damage". It says "increase damage by 100%".

If my skill hits for X, a damage modifier of 100% would make my skill hit for 2X, not some convoluted formula to try and go back to see how the skill applied it's damage, then see if it is based off of weapon damage, and then increase that number by a factor of 1.

Furthermore, a passive that increases the damage of a skill by X% is not the same as increases your skills damage based off of weapon damage by another X%, else it would read "when you use skill X, increase damage by an additional 100% weapon damage." But it doesn't read that way, it says "increase the damage of skill by 100%". This should mean the passive is more along the lines of Battle Rage as far as how it should apply it's bonus.

Max Fury Weapon Throw with max yellow rune at 1 weapon damage (MFWT) = 12.9 damage.

MFWT + Battle Rage max red rune bonus = MFWT + (MFWT * 1.00) = 2MFWT = 25.8 damage.
MFWT + passive bonus = MFWT + (MFWT * 1.00) = 2MFWT = 25.8 damage.

MFWT + Battle Rage + passive bonus = MFTW + (MFWT * 1.00) + (MFWT * 1.00) = MFTW + (MFWT * 2.00) = 3MFWT = 38.7 damage

Thus, MFWT with passive and max Battle Rage = 3870% weapon damage.

...I think

Quote from Ophion

My guess is that the Weapon Throw will expend the Fury since it is an effect, not a cost (not a requirement).

Here's a good question. If it expends the Fury, and the skill cost 0, does that mean up to 100 Fury could be used in the damage calculation? Even better, if you kill the target, get 20 Fury back, use it again, its like always casting a 40 Fury WT? 20 Fury expended to deal damage, then 20 Fury back for target kill. 0 cost is assumed.

Quote from th3sizzle

You guys are mean. My mommy says she is still proud of me!

Haha! Awesome.

Quote from Procylon

I am wondering if there are skill groupings of the + damage modifiers. Obviously attack doesn't multiply itself, same for crit damage. So perhaps +all % damage also just adds to itself as well. And then weapon damage.

So: [{(Weapon*Skill Weapon %) * Attack} * % Skill Damage] * Crit Damage % = obliteration

Thus, Frenzy(120), Battle Rage(100), Bash(80), etc would all simply add together and not continually multiple off each other.

Throw Weapon with Red rune = 462% weapon damage.
Battle Rage with Red rune = 100% more damage.
Max Bash with Blue rune = 80% more damage.
Wrath of the Berzerker with Red run = 75% more damage.
Brawler passive = 30% more damage when around 8 dudes.
No Escape passive = 100% more damage with Throw Weapon.

+120% from Frenzy. Should be 462% weapon damage and 505% + all damage.

Thus with 500 attack and 500% crit damage:

[{(250*462%) * 500} * 505] * 500 = 145818

That is pretty serious on a crit. Or maybe not. Maybe Inferno Diablo has 5 million health.


If the math pans out as such, dropping Battle Rage should only lower damage by about 15-25% as opposed to a 50% cut.

Not crunching math here but figured I would point out two concerns. I believe Frenzy only give damage bonus to Frenzy. Was seeing some posts about people testing it in the beta. Pretty sure this is true.

As for the No Escape bonus, are we sure that is simply added with other "bonus damage" percentages? I ask because the passive specifically gives Throw Weapon a 100% boost. I figured that would be taken into effect for the skill's damage before adding all "bonus damage" percentages. If the way I see is the way it is, then your number is actually low.

Just something to take into consideration.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#YWaPgd!bTV!ZZYZbb

Imagine a crit with this build with all possible damage modifiers activated!

Throw Weapon with Red rune = 462% weapon damage.
Battle Rage with Red rune = 100% more damage.
Max Bash with Blue rune = 80% more damage.
Wrath of the Berzerker with Red run = 75% more damage.
Brawler passive = 30% more damage when around 8 dudes.
No Escape passive = 100% more damage with Throw Weapon.

Get life back with fury generators + leach on gear.

Oh, and if you kill your target with that Throw Weapon (which you probably will if not a boss) you get that 20 fury back.

100+80+75+30 = 285% damage bonus on a Throw Weapon that does 924% weapon damage, so 924 * 2.85 = 2633.4% weapon damage for 20 fury?

If so... damn!


Edit: + = *

Quote from Kardax2

Quote from Clypheous

If it is in fact three gems and that's all that upgrading takes, I think it's going to be very boring and tedious to upgrade gems, but a fully upgraded gem is going to be worth a fortune, although probably slightly less because, IIRC, you can take them out of items now, but I could be wrong on that.

I anticipate gems to be an auction house staple. Since you can pop them back out of items, the market will eventually be flooded with level 14s.

-Kardax

This^ Granted it will be a good long while before "flooded" with lvl 14's. There will still be like like what? ~15 slots we need to socket. (6 for 2H, 4 chest, leaves 5 for the other slots which there are now more than D2) So getting enough lvl 14's so that you are decked then put excess on AH may take a long time. Of course there will also be people who just want to sell and not socket as a priority, but it will still take a long time before flooded status happens.

Quote from Tekkiller

Quote from popo_joe

UNUUUU! Pleased!! Don't think!

(only read the word FAPPIN)

This

i R confused

Quote from OmniNom

I'm sure it will end up being a lot harder than most of you think

^ This. Also, and please forgive the WoW reference, I see inferno a lot like heroics. Hard as nails at first, but after content releases and people gear up, less hard, then possibly easy at some point. Then when level capped is raised by an expansion, hard as nails again. Rinse repeat. Awesome IMO.

As far as number of people playing inferno, it's pretty accessible. Anyone who beats hell and is 60 can play it. And since leveling to 60 is going to just about happen by the time you beat hell, well, lots of people will play inferno.

Just like lots of people failed, I mean, played heroics (pre nerf/content releases).

Also, the guy talking about how the average person played SC2 was spot on... for SC2. My recollection of D2 was not people stopping after beating the story. Most people (again, from my memory) wanted to get as high and powerful as fast as possible. IMHO, most people will at least touch hell, with a vast population progressing in inferno to some extent. (That means I'm guessing >50% in Hell, <50% make actual progress through inferno)

When the content is there, and people can access it, people will play it.

Bah! Ignore this. I literally posted then saw the blue about it being a drag-able skill...

Poor forum searching skill is poor...

Greetings!

I was reading some of those rune topics and it made me think back to the official rune system reveal on Blizzard's site, specifically where it showed off how runes effect Whirlwind (WW) as an example. My brain then connected that with the fact that many of the top tier skills will have cool downs.

My question is this: does anyone know how WW will work in D3? In D2 every time you used it, you clicked where you wanted to WW to. The barb does his dance to where you clicked and that was one usage of WW. If you wanted to go back and forth, multiple clicks, multiple WW usage.

Having a CD on WW makes me wonder if it will still be this "WW to where you click and that's it" usage. If so, I don't see it being that sweet on bosses, more like a horde only move.

I would like to see it work like this: you cast WW and the barb WW's for X seconds, then you can move however you like during those X seconds and the barb will WW along your desired path.

IMO, a time based WW would make it worth the skill choice (since WW is top tier and thus should invoke a CD). If it is just a one time use to where you clicked and then BAM CD, I will probably still test it out, but that may make it seem less attractive.

Of course, how skills will work is all speculation, just something I was thinking about.

Thoughts?

Cheers!

I don't really understand the controversy. Players who bought items in D2 will still buy items in D3. Players who never even thought about buying items in D2 still won't buy items in D3. I feel people with 'strong' feelings either way are missing the point:

Choice.

We control this market. No one's using the gold AH? Sounds like a great time to post an item on the gold AH; no prices to compare. Don't want to spend real money? Well that situation has been explained over and over, you won't have to. Don't want to buy items? Don't. Want to buy items? Help yourself.

All these theories and guess-works... People raging quitting... common people. It's an auction house. It makes sense from both a game-play (gold) and a business (real money) perspective.

Gold = better trading in game.
Real money = no loss on transactions of Blizzard's intellectual property.

Don't get me started on trying to make a "corporation" of sorts. Do these people realize the dynamics of this game? Developers wanting more end game content probably means more end game content over time. It would be like paying for tier 5 gear then tier 6 comes out. Waste of money. Sure, you may trick some people, people are stupid, but you won't earn a living.

People getting mad at Blizzard for doing this? Again, when your intellectual property is being dispersed by someone else for money, because you didn't think ahead from your previous experiences, then come tell Blizzard they are all money grubbers.

For anyone to say Blizzard is wrong or stupid or whatever for incorporating both AH's, they clearly don't understand something.

Realistically, items are all worthless (real money wise) while leveling. Only end game content has any shot at someone paying real money for it (again, I know, there do exist idiots). But guess what? That level 35 Hammer of Doom looks pretty tasty for 2000g. So BAM! That blows your whole "no one will use gold AH" theory out the window.

Personally, I can't stand transactions (real money) within games, and will probably stay away from the AH's for the majority of the time I play. Either I or one of my bud's is going to be one of the 5 classes, so I have no need to AH away anything. Not to mention gold and components are needed for the best gear. Why would I sell away the best gear in small doses?

But the point is, it's there if I choose to use it!

TL;DR - Don't try to tell the future. Don't rage. Stop calling Blizzard names. Think about it. The dual AH system makes sense. Use it if you want. Stay away from it if you don't. Either way, Blizzard will make some money off people wanting to buy virtual items, and thus (hopefully) more/better content in the future.

My 2 cents. Hopefully I'll help calm some people down