DiabloFans

Quote from Cleglaw_Xendlar»

this perfectly sums up the current situation imho, but is that number is really the limit? after so many hours of theorycrafting, i am very sure that number can be at least 6 for each class if a proper balance is applied. sure there will always be a meta, there will be always one "strongest" build but this isnt a big problem. having 6 builds to be able to clear at least GR 70 will do enough. and with all that diversity im sure there will be exciting multiplayer sessions in every season where creativity of interesting comboes will shine. there wont be some few obvious meta that people know before even a new season. seeing meta shapes slowly in every season, creates an excitement factor.. at least player slike me would be way more excited thats what im sure.

If this was 3 years ago it would be more of a thing. As I stated this game is maintenance mode now, don't expect anything. It took them a long time just to balance LoN and each class sets to somewhat be comparable to each-other... trying to make everything great without causing another ability to over-shine sounds like a big undertaking that a game in its early life cycle would attempt to achieve.

Don't push ladders and there are many builds that can do a 70 grift. Unfortunately this game is all about grift pushing and para points so... eventually your only going to have 1-2 builds that are the "best". That is the issue since you have a never ending scaling of difficulty most builds will fall short. If you had a cap on difficulties then more builds would be viable. I've always suggested make ladders based on a main ability then you would at least see people trying to push different builds, but nobody seemed to care for it.

As for rose tinted glasses approach... If this game was like D2 and you only had hell mode, I guarantee all builds would be viable.

Take it or leave this game will not change drastically anymore its in maintenance mode. If you wanna try other similar games with more builds play PoE or Grim Dawn.

Quote from Happybytez»

I thought there will be a reson to return to a game, but now there's none.

Beyond the upcoming DLC that will make people come back for 1 season D3 has done nothing nor can they do anything to bring people back. It's maintenance mode bro, the game is what 5 years old... Jesus people move on. You either play because you enjoy it or you don't. I'm coming back this season because I'm bored of my other games and a few buddies are playing this season.

It's good to see these forums are still the same with the same type of people >_<

Quote from Johnnyxp64

So in order to justify an incompetent of today you try to find a worst in the past! ?
I bet the money you spend are not coming from your own pocket them so you don't care that much.

Not sure where your going with this.... D3 WAS a BIG let down. They eventuality "fixed" it with RoS, but the game has a lot of flaws and it has muddled its way to something completely different that what the franchise was based off of.

Apparently getting $0.04 entertainment per hour ($100 / 2500 hours) and having continuous patches for four years is the biggest slap in the face ever? Considering it took 10 years to "develop" this game and people are losing their mind D4 hasn't come out within 4 years of a release of D3 is just pure entitlement. This also isn't a MMO where multiple expansions are added for funz. Each expansion turns all equipment obsolete then you have multiple years of re-balancing all over again. They are actually adding additional content (for a fee of course) where as most games of this genre would have been left to maintenance years ago. Are people mad this doesn't get the attention like WoW does? I'm seriously trying to understand your thinking.

I can assure you I spend my own money to play video games, the fact I played D1 would ball park me at least 25+ years old and I can tell you my parents aren't paying my bills.

Quote from Whitefirx»

I am glad the disappointment of the fan base is so entertaining for you. At least you get something out of the Diablo series. I am not surprised you have fewer hours into D3, You probably spend most of your day trolling forums. Well played sir.

Cheers, it's always good to see the (needy) perspective of millennials, can't wait for you guys to be running the show. My faith in our future has been restored to the levels of Trump in power If you really wanted to admit a true slap in the face how about waiting almost a decade for D3 and being the complete flop it was from vanilla. Get over your self.

Quote from Whitefirx»

I have played diablo since diablo 1 release. I have about 2500 hours played on D3. I am very disappointed in the announcement. It is a slap in the face.

Same situation as me except less hours on D3. It doesn't bother me because they put more into this game then they ever did in any of the other instalments (they also had to because vanilla was crap). Every Diablo game goes into maintenance mode at some point, heck this game almost made it 5 years before that point, but now they are adding DLC... cry much?

Then again could be trolling... or sarcasm? I dunno, all these salty tears of late are delicious though.

My poop was a bit more solid then normal today... so yah I could see how that might lead some to believe it as evidence that something in the future might happen!!

Quote from Bleu42

Well that's the argument though, isn't it? Do you build a brand new game from the ground up, which will take years upon years with all new art and assets, or do you fix what is essentially a working game?
I'd like to rather see a fix to the current D3. Unless they go into an MMO or other type of genre with Diablo, there's no reason to start over again.

I'm happy where this game has gone since vanilla, but in its current state this game isn't fun playing for more than a week. Addressing some of the core issues of the game would cause a long overhaul of re-balancing, it took them a few seasons just to somewhat balance LoN and basically all it did was create massive power creep.

There is a simple life-cycle of a game, the longer it is played, the quicker I get bored of it when I come back to it. If they re-hauled the game I'd be happy, but would likely just stop playing again after a couple of months. I rather have something new and shiny to eventually get burnt out on. for example I played wow a fair bit, but in the end I was playing the "same game" with new content that dumbed down all theory crafting and uniqueness. It eventually got to the point I bought and expansion and quit after two months because I seen most of the content and grinding the same game play I've done for years just gets stale. I haven't gone back in years and refuse to do so unless its F2P (which will never happen).

The reason I made my two suggestions is it would be very easy and rejuvenate the D3 community somewhat. All D2 had was player damage reduction and it was policed and run by the community. It kept D2 going a lot longer than seasons did and it made other pieces of loot more intriguing. far as my suggestion for ladders, seeing the same old cookie cutter builds gets old. I know my suggestion would lead to the same situation, but wouldn't it be fun seeing a WD toad build and how far you could push it and get recognised?

I enjoyed D3 and definitely got my entertainment value. I expect this game to go maintenance mode two seasons ago and now it just finally went maintenance. I've since switched to a few other games and are enjoying those thoroughly. When D3 finally gets some updates I'll be like most others probably play for awhile again before burning out. It's the nature of this series, it doesn't cost you to leave the game, you can always come back and enjoy any additional features.

TL;DR
It's been a good ride. Waiting for the new shiny, until then I'll enjoy Grim Dawn for my Diablo needs.

A new franchise or D4. Fixing D3 would be more work than starting fresh.

Only comment I can offer is add PvP with player damage reduction by 95% and add ladders based on specific abilities not classes (would see more variety of builds trying to push their limit).

Druid should be:

Str if bear

Dex if wolf

Int if caster

a triple base class would be interesting.

I think this class release is the best case hope for this game. It periodically adds revenue and maintains a player base without massive resources. Fixing D3 to what everyone would have hoped for is long gone. The expansion fixed a lot, but grifts, paragon, and one day character building killed this game.

Start with a clean slate and work on D4 with some solid foundation and concepts, but its going to be on the back drop with all the other titles running right now.

Burn out and left...

Once I came to the conclusion that the only way to progress in D3 was to skip monsters in a game that is all about killing monsters (and loot)... it was the last straw. Plvl farming and Season 5 introducing a retarded amount of power creep added to a good reason to leave.

If they reworked Plvls and changed ladders to based on main skill and not classes I'd consider going back. The great thing is leaving made me found Grim Dawn and I foresee 5 fold the amount of hours I put into D3 (roughly 1400 hours).

This isn't a bad game, nor will it ever be dead. I'm just done with it due to grift mechanics (Diablo used to be about killing monsters)

I do appreciate this post, kudos.

Just need a new game or series. it's to a point they are just balancing skills and sets now where do you honestly go from here? More classes means expansion which means re-balancing and doing shit all over again because it will take them another 1-2 years to balance that,

As mentioned D2 was all about multiple affixes and flexibility on one mode that was so easy almost any build could farm it. Lets keep in mind D2 is hardly balanced at all and all people now do is cry about balance because grifts offers a comparable measuring stick that its very concept is self destructive with RNG and infinity of scaling damage (you will always reach a point of getting one shot, so they keep buffing damage to kill shit faster... then you get higher to the point you get one shotted).

If your going to massive revamp affixes and other things to add a variety of flavor OTHER than damage you might as well just focus on a new game. They have been pushing down this road for so long I don't see it changing. The only other thing that would be nice is PvP but since everyone complains about balance they won't introduce it... again might as well focus on a new game.

Quote from demarco81»

Slayerviper, I expected D3 to be a bit more scarier/exciting to get into random rooms and have "nope, turn around" moments. Visually i kinda hoped for more amazing maps, feels like most maps dont have the special touch of amazement you can expect from blizzard games.

And gameplay yes its better. but if you have do to the boring chores part to progress. its basicly playing with your mousehand only and left click and still be fine during it. And if gameplay can be done by bots so easy, means there is not much challenge if you have to use your brain.

And i really dont feel much ups and downs in emotion. I mean you find a green each few minutes. And have to clear your bag all the time of greens. Right now it feels like you fully geared in 10 hours or so after reaching 70 and then find only minor upgrades. Finding goblin pack gives you some feeling like "ok nice" feeling, but not that exciting if you can farm the same loot in 10 mins anyways. Just the loot and lack of "ohhh shit" monsters make it feel like your just driving the game on autopilot.

Maybe they should make it more random, reaching full bar in grift/rift, gives you something like a portal where you goto something like arena with slotmachine. Where you get a buff. debuff, special effect like arcane, poison map, and then random boss. And if your in a group, you get that for each player, so you get more buffs and debuffs and more bosses, to make it more chaotic and harder for bots to cheat.

We all know bots are not that great at handling arcane, poison detection and such. Make it more random so they cant handle it. And more exciting for players to do bossfights in rifts.

It went from one extreme to another. This game was terrible in vanilla with RMAH and Inferno mode, now its loot city. I always complain about the maps in D3 but everyone just told me to stfu and accept that they were "random enough". The bots isn't a good example as it was 10000000000000000000X worse in D2. I don't know why you are saying game play is so basic and boring yet saying D2 was so great. D2 was spam one button for one spell = Win. Yes its over a decade later and this game hasn't evolved that much if you consider the time span.

I've played since day one and I'll tell you its been a whole range of emotions. Things are too easy now and that won't change (the longer a series lasts for Blizzard the easier it gets to they can cater to casuals). If you really want those good feelings and oh shit moments play hardcore, that really gets you into this game on an emotional level.

The main issue is this game is just about scaling/gear check. So its not challenging to then suddenly becoming impossible. I really think you need a total re-work or new series to implement the Ai/Challenges you want. Far as an overall ARPG, this game has hit most of the notes and succeeded. I just think in terms of "game for its time" you need new genres or series. It's not like each expansion of WoW has been ground breaking and if anything has gotten worse with each patch/expansion.

I really think people just expect too much, Blizzard came out with genre defining games or at least prototype what games should be for genres back in the 90's and recently early 2000's with WoW, but they haven't released anything ground breaking in years. As mentioned in other threads Blizzard isn't close to what used to be let alone the same company. All I expect is a solid game that will get me bang for my buck. As far as game for its time, I'd look else where this company doesn't do that anymore. They just rehash what sells on the same three series they have had for twenty years. Now they mainly just focus on what genres are hot and morph them into Blizzard type games, eg. HoTS & Overwatch.

TL;DR

Off topic but this thread seems dead anyways. Blizzard doesn't "start" genres anymore they just copy whats popular and do a good job of it.

Quote from Arokhantos»

This game has no PVP and if it ever would get PVP it would need to be balanced seperatly for obvious reasons.

Quote from demarco81

I dont think D3 is better
then D2, visual its better. But being ahead of its time like other blizzards game i dont feel that way. To me D3 was a safe bet, and not as visually stunning as i hoped it would be. Look at lost ark? that korean
arpg, thats what i expected from blizzard, being ahead and not behind.

I'll have to check that game out.

Quote from Midknite

Well, the problem isn't just the competitive gameplay. It's also public games, playing with friends, clan members and community members in D3. No one will play with you or want to invite you if you aren't playing spec X, and that's bad for the game as a whole. Sorry, I neglected to mention that the problem also affected casual and non competitive play
modes.

I actually thought of that for PVP. I wanted to play it with my brothers but It was so unfair. One cluster arrow and my brother was toast lol. However, I don't want PVP for the game because I've seen what it's like trying to balance a game based on two different play modes of PVP and PVE, it will never be balanced and the story of nurfing
and buffing skills just starts all over again.

As mentioned before in other threads you just need to find the right clan. Competitive Clans are going to be focused like this so I get that and have no issue if they want to take that approach. So people then play public games because they have no friends or can't stay in competitive clans (this is me in a nutshell). Part of this issue is this patch was designed to group play = win. Going forward I'm hoping solo play will be more worth while so there is a lot less concern dealing with trolls in public games. I've also found a relaxed clan where people just want to play so I recommend others running into non competitive issues to focus on that approach.

I still think if we have different ranking systems displaying people's Grift results with different specs would reduce the butthurt itemization. If there was a Grift ranking for wave of force I'd actually take the time to gather non "top BIS Grift gear" and see how far I could "chart" in that spec. I do realize then this approach would make new BIS gear for these alternative specs, but it sure would make people actually try and use different items or specs. The hope would be people would stop complaining about itemization for 2-3 items in one spec per class.

Quote from Midknite»

This is actually reverse of what happens. You're right to a certain extent but that's not how the events play out. And it's also where the problem lies. With using wow as an example it wasn't just hybrid builds in the same sense of your previous example of frost-fire mage. It was a matter of choosing anything other than layout X makes you an idiot and every other choice can't come to raid with us. The same thing happened in season 4. Talent choices however should be on a situational basis and that will never change as long as new encounter mechanics come out (same with D3(new bosses, mobs, enemy abilities etc). I think where we are mis communicating is your stating the problem lies with one result instead of the problem being the system that caused several results that lead to one state of a game. The problem was that the talent trees made it impossible to balance the abilities themselves which lead the developers playing a constant battle of nerfing and buffing skills until they decided to just deal away with the system that caused half of the specs within a game to be very poorly represented simply because it didn't do the most damage.

Which leads us to the changes to the items we've been seeing. Diablo since day one has always tried to enforce a sense of diversity in builds as far as the skills and classes used. So you can see why there is no similar option to what happened in WoW (changing talent trees altogether). SO that leaves them with two options. They can keep repeating the same mistake they made in another game that caused a very similar problem by nerfing and buffing skills or they can change the items themselves and allow more class and set representation. The latter is the better option for everyone even though it destroys something that the top performers do on a regular basis: find the top build. In the end Quin and other builders will still be competitive with better representation of all of the classes and set. Because your skill, time and dedication as well as your build should decide who's the better player. Not whether you are playing "the right build" or not.

The issue is the latter seems to be removing 90% of items/abilities from the game and have only leave the obvious choices. Then have everyone compete in Grifts because any sort of play outside of Grifts is irreverent. Might as go to the extreme and don't even have random loot just rewards at completion of grift levels (make it more like wow). Once we have stripped down to bare bones gear and abilities it will then only be about skill to compete in Grifts... wait where are we going with this, I thought this was supposed to be a fun game to kill monsters by various methods and modes... nope Diablo is and should now be an epeen competitive PvE. As a vet of the series I think this strays away from what this series has always been about; however you see a lot of these millennials talking about what the game should be and change to "get with the times". There are plenty of other games that allow you to compete in a balanced setting, the fact that Grifts were provided for some sort of measuring stick is a nice feature. Perhaps ladders should be adjusted for ranking so instead of solo wizard, how about solo channeling wizard or solo arcane orb wizard rankings.

Really this game needs PvP just add a player vs player damage/CC reduction of 90% or something absurd since were hitting for billions and let the players dictate/police standards and rules (Like D2). No balancing needed. Considering the effort going to try and balance PvE this simple little feature would add more replay value than any patch could.