All I hope for next season and the game in general is that they nerf supports into the ground. Diablo group play shouldn't be fucking 3 supports and 1 dps class, it should be 4 dps. Maybe one class who brings more buffs than dmg, but not 3 classes who only bring buffs/debuffs/cc/grouping. It's complete and utter bullshit.
Just look at this season. Meta is Monk/Barb/WD support and Wiz. Shadow DH? Nice try, go back to your 70-80 GRs. LoN DPS WD? LoN Crus DPS? Maybe in 2 man grps.
The whole system is just retarded. Make buffs like the voodoo from the Witch Doctor only for the Witch Doctor. Barb pulling mobs through the entire rift? Gone. Monk and WD keeping them in place basically doing nothing? Gone. One retarded wiz staring at a fucking wall and trying to get his mouse coursor into the right angle? Gone. Imagine how much fun all 4 players in a grp could have, if everyone contributed to the dps.
But hey, it's blizzard. Let's just throw out sets and don't even start to begin what players could do to abuse the shit out of them
I don't know... anyone can push a few buttons and do damage. A little bit of thinking is more interesting than just doing some damage.
i think the big issue why D3 gets so much hate, while PoE is so loved is that in D3 way more players reach that part in the endgame where you are pigeonholed into only a few viable builds. Progression in PoE is slower and highly depended on your social contacts and trading skills. I guess most players don't even get to Atziri (normal), so most players have this huge build diversity. And those who reach the endgamest of the endgame but played one of the "endgame viable, but not real endgame viable" builds, hit the brick wall. But most players don't hit the brick wall and that's why people love the "build diversity" in this game.
That might be the case, honestly i always thought the reason why d3 was and is still hated from a group of players is that it's not D2 revamped. a group of players wanted a revamped Diablo 2, not a sequel.
Another issue too is a large portion of the d3 forum community contradict themselves with what they want. One min they want a focus on multiplayer and now they are focused on wanting a better solo experience etc.
So you prefer d3's system where you couldnt use firestorm until you had all the pieces?
I don't know what you really mean but I'll answer you what i think you mean.
Firestorm requires you to still have pieces and skill gems to be used.
D3 you can still skip some pieces and use a build. For example I can have 5 pieces of a set and still use the six set if I have RoRg. Sometimes you don't even need the 6 set and just go for 2 set and then the rest from a different set.
Even if it was the case that you absolutely need all six pieces for some reason (most cases you use a mixture for end game builds and cube RorG) it's much, much easier to gear from drops in d3 than PoE (as it relies on a trading system).
Another thing to note is that both D3 and PoE are essentially the same game but with different packaging. Both farm maps (grifts in case of d3) and both require optimized builds for true end game. You will also find yourself farming uber atziri quite a bit in end game PoE, kind of like how you farm ubers in d3 for HF ammys.
Either way i thought it sounded emo and dumb. Its a video game, he obviously reached him limit. Probably died or something and needed to vent.
"In PoE it's absolutely required to have a trading system in place, if
not you would have a very, very hard time getting any gear you actually
need."
Required or hard? There are contradictions in that statement. I also disagree with it, i was playing my totems, found a whispering ice, made an icestorm. Ive found many items that lead to making a new char. If your "hoping" for an item i could see why you would need to trade. There are few items that are worth more than an exaulted orb anyways.
Required, the drop rates are too low for someone to play casually and get all the gear they need (unless you get really, really lucky). And then you turn to trade or Poe.trade. Even when you play more than the average player it's just way better to be rich and buy the equipment you don't get from drops (which is usually the majority) from other players with chaos orbs, exalts etc.
Realistically you can build from a single item in both games. It's not that d3 lacks that, d3 it's just more efficient because you are more likely to get the legendary you might find useful, from a drop.
I'm not sure what you find dumb and emo. I don't interpret that at all from what he wrote... @.@
He is entitled to his opinion. I disagree, i have a few chars 80+ in poe and guess what, they all have different builds!!!
Hardcore players tend to be know it alls who write books. I dont pay much attension to them
Same here I have different builds with 13 characters in D3. Have different builds with 5 90s in PoE. That's not the point of what the discussion is.
Being informed is different from being a know-it-all. Everyone has opinions right? But I find that some people's opinions are way more valid than others. And is exponentially more so with experience and research. When having a meaningful discussion about a game or any other hobby you as a dedicated participant takes an active role in bringing in-depth discussion opposed to shallow interpretation. It helps the developers and may provide insight to other players. Regardless of approval or disagreement.
Have played since launch, and is my current game (don't play anything else).
Experienced and knowledgeable on most meta builds.
Understanding of optimizing builds and using alternative gear set ups depending on the scenario.
History with online communities:
My first online community I was involved with was when I was 10, which was Gaia online (pretty geeky but was a blast). Most of my threads were about anime, sci-fi and jrpgs (think ff7). I was active on the forums until the age of 16.
When I started to play Everquest I was involved with some bad theory crafting posts. Played Everquest until I moved on to World of Warcraft and thus active on the world of Warcraft forums. Played the game and remained active in the community until my departure of World of Warcraft which was after I beta tested warlords of Draenor (hated warrior changes). Most posts were about balance changes, spec theory (theory crafting) regarding the class: warrior.
Moved to League of Legends which I played for about a year when I was reintroduced to Diablo 3 (HATED D3 launch). Was not much involved with the community site as it was toxic.
Started to play seasons in D3 was semi-active in the community until I completely walked away last year. The forums on the d3 site are plain toxic and horrible and no meaningful discussion comes out of that joke of a community.
Team Experience:
I apply with some team experience. I started to really get into with World of Warcraft. I started as a member of ONITALL (largest guild on Nordrassil) in wrath of the lich king. Started to gather mats and craft gear, afterwards depositing it in gbank. From there I started to communicating with some officers and became buddies with the guild leader. I was involved with some major guild events (pvp tournaments, Orgrimmar city raids, Stormwind marches), 5 or so months later I formed a raid group and was promoted to raid leader, nearly a year later was appointed one of the officers, I left ONITALL at the end of Cataclysm and went to the Horde.
Notable experience was in Area-52 where I joined the semi-hardcore raiding group, unrelenting chaos. I was a warrior dps main/off tank:3 for their main 10 man group and had a noticeable voice in boss strategy and helping other raid members maximize their damage and explained to the tanks how they should tank certain bosses (Heroic Shamans as an example).
Outside of video games I work as a pipe layer for a construction company. I am involved with grade work, shooting grade, laying concrete, metal, conduit pipe etc. I am with a 4 man crew and involved with a lot of the math that goes into laying pipe. Aside from skill craft experience, one must know how to operate with the crew. Communication is key regarding safety, planning and other various parts of the job.
Availability:
I work from 7am-5:30pm and arrive home at 6pm. Rest of time is involved looking around diablofans and playing d3, sometimes watching an episode of some anime I like. My availability from mon-Thurs is 6ishpm-11:30pm (which would be times I would be active on the forums).
Fri I get out early at 4pm EST and arrive home around 5ish. I would be available from 5pm-midnight.
Sat and Sun I usually have off, the only exception would be Sat, sometimes I work but it very rarely happens. I act as a sound guy for a small business on Sat but only for two hours, and Sun I work as a sound technician from 11:30am-2pm. Rest of the day I'm free.
If the diablo 3 moderators etc. need more information please contact me through P.M
A lot of the player base point out the lack of diversity in diablo 3 (though I feel like the game offers quite a bit of choice between builds, not in the sense of truly pushing higher grifts but in the sense of having a multitude of builds to farm TX and medium grifts (60 upwards to maybe 75).
Now the argument in place is that current games like PoE offer more content (excluding D2 for now) regarding builds.
But is the diversity with games like PoE an illusion. There is a idea that came to mind to me when I further investigated the end game of PoE and the end game of diablo 3. An I came up with the term illusion of diversity (to my surprise is already an actual concept).
An illusion of diversity is the correlation of diversity that the average player may perceive as "choice" (how many builds can I play?) regarding the context of abilities and the mathematical aspect of how damage output may work and what to do to optimize the variations of the effects of whatever spells may exist (that relate to weapon and gear effects, set bonuses etc). In other words you want the most optimal build to perform whatever task it is designed for (relations of fun is a perception of the player). Other aspects are involved with multiplicative damage and additive damage regarding D3's numbers.
In PoE a lot of builds exist but as you start cranking the difficulty and getting to the end game content (farming atziri and doing group maps) you start seeing that builds start becoming way less diverse. Obviously you want the optimization that a good build offers to your respective class and what groups really want (and how fun you perceive it as).
This post was made from LiquidSG a hardcore talisman player in PoE
I agree, the diversity is immense but once you start taking medium-high
level maps into consideration that diversity is severely slashed. And
it's not that builds aren't "viable", but they start to fall so far
behind that there's very little justification in using them for anything
else than the people who hop in for half an hour or two at most. They
are just not competitive enough.
This same problem applies to leveling, although not as much. Every 6
months or so, leveling "meta" changes - freezing pulse+ground slam and
cleave/searing bond+fire trap+searing touch/flame
totem+firestorm+cyclone. It's not that other skills are bad, but they
are so much slower in clear speed than the flavour of the meta that for
anyone who is not super casually playing it makes no sense to not use
them. This makes making new characters a painful experience to those who
have hundreds or thousands of hours and many characters under their
belts. I find it hard to reroll after second rip now, because I want to
get back to mapping ASAP, and the best way to do that is FT yet again.
Some nerfs from months/years ago should be reversed, imo. Also, Dominating Blow needs to be fixed.
From his first paragraph we interpret the same concepts in d3. Tons of builds exist and are viable but once we start talking about pushing, optimally farming etc, then those builds become obsolete for a player and you're pigeon holed into one of the optimized builds that the best players use no matter of the illusion that a player is presented. Content is large in the eyes of the player which is a good market that many companies use (soda companies for example).
What d3 did was simplify the ability system and forced you to use more abilities on your bar opposed to just spamming one or two abilities like PoE and d2, this has to do with design regarding the variations of choice that may exist in games with a more complex system of abilities and passives but that very system will still produce the same results but with a lesser degree of how many abilities you use to optimize damage (or toughness).
I have a few more posts I will make one also regarding the lack of trading in D3 and why it isn't needed. In PoE it's absolutely required to have a trading system in place, if not you would have a very, very hard time getting any gear you actually need.
If you have a non-sheep comment you would like to add to the thread please do so, but I won't bother replying to average observations made about a game's "end game" etc.. players who have lots of time in d3 and PoE are highly welcome to add to the conversation.
If u look at a game like POE the reason why that game is so good is because their are no sets every item has a use even the normal items. The reason for this is because their are no sets. The LON set was good but it is not what we needed we need to have legendary's buffed so their are more build options and we are not locked into one build in POE you can make almost anything work and that is because there is nothing that just buffs one ability like sets. So if Diablo makes ability's better and makes legendary's better then we might have more build paths.
IT's an illusion... the best items work in a way that they synergize well. if you play firestorm witch you STILL have to acquire the proper items to maximize damage output. With firestorm you have to have the three dragons and you have to have moonsorrow, you have to have the gem skills: curse on hit, herald of thunder and warlords mark. And next question is will this work with atziri and map farms?
You cannot make everything work on higher difficulties. it's not efficient... casual players feel like they have all these options but with real content (meaning the true goal of the game) you need certain builds and items, just like in d3. The difference between the two is that Diablo 3 strips the pointless complexity of the tree and forces you to use more than one ability with some auras up. Poe's combat is very simple but what makes it appear complicated is the skill system and the talent trees.
Bottom line, they need to DO A LOT if they want many players to keep playing.
Grim Dawn is everything it was spoken to be, the game is damn near perfect. It is from a smallish developer, yet has 10x more content in it than D3. That makes no sense to me.
Blizz just needs to get their damn act together and start making good games again, instead of making games for money alone. BELIEVE THAT!!!!!
Then play grim dawn and stop wasting your time in a Diablo forum. Makes you look stupid.
Nah, it means I care about the damn game, likely more than you, and wish Blizz would stop being lazy and give us the game we deserve! But hey, its all good
tell us of some examples of how the game can improve because i play d3 the majority of the time and i can tell you that it's in a pretty good spot right now. Same arguments from people who barely even play the game...
Bottom line, they need to DO A LOT if they want many players to keep playing.
Grim Dawn is everything it was spoken to be, the game is damn near perfect. It is from a smallish developer, yet has 10x more content in it than D3. That makes no sense to me.
Blizz just needs to get their damn act together and start making good games again, instead of making games for money alone. BELIEVE THAT!!!!!
Then play grim dawn and stop wasting your time in a Diablo forum. Makes you look stupid.
Swap gear/skill swap. That's something I feel would make things much, much easier. I really hate having to swap out gear manually. The swap gear should be a "storage space" for that second set instead of it being stored via stash and just having the gear interchange.
Since no trading exists in d3: db, and other mats should have their own separate icon to tell you the amount you have (similar to blood shards) and not taking space up in our stash.
We need to reduce the amount of things that are stored within our stash and within our bags... since we have limited storage space and lack a mule program to draw gear from other characters.
Yeah? Take a look at the forums, they're filled with viable endgame builds.
Sorry dude, you're downright retarded if you truly believe d3 has
more content to offer. I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy, since i
really love and prefer the gameplay of d3, but what you just wrote is
freaking ridiculous.
PoE has so much more diversity, content skills, just everything - only the combat is kinda meh sometimes.
No there isn't... Do you know what we refer to when we say "viable end game?" Poe is about farming atziri and fucking maps anything else is just a build up to that state. Unlike you I'm not a fanboy. I played PoE extensively and wrote a review for it multiple times... one of my reviews happens to be on steam. The state of the game has always been the same as d3. They tune down a bunch of builds then the HC community plays them (SC talisman too) then they figure out which are the most optimal builds. Last season for example there was ONLY eight viable builds for the top players to push with... EIGHT.
Diversity VS simplicity is a misconstrued argument about a game like Poe, and D2. Like you said all builds are presented on the forums as guides for people to use. Same thing with d2, is in poe. You're still pigeon holed into what builds are more optimal. That's not diversity, that's an illusion of diversity.
That's why the original shit head dev (Jay Wilson) did not include an unnecessarily "diverse" system in d3, because he knew that was one of the many flaws in diablo 2. 95 percent of the community used net builds, while the very small community that did the math made the builds that we see online and use.
But I can tell you're one of those lots of people that think they know it all without doing the research and have no ACTUAL experience with the reality of the end game. Video games is how I pass my time outside of work. I spend 7 hours+ a day on the weekdays and 10+ hours a day on the weekends when I have off from work. I've experienced BOTH the diablo franchise and path of exile.
I gave POE a positive review, I've enjoyed both the games and they both have different things to offer (cons and pros). So before you fly off your chair into an unsightly, opinionated, half-assed, subjective post with little to no examples, while misinterpreting something; maybe you should think before you post.
Pretty cool not sure if I personally would want to relive d1 or d2 but i have some friends who might want to play some diablo again. I'll point em your way.
0
0
turn off the porn torrents, man.
0
Another issue too is a large portion of the d3 forum community contradict themselves with what they want. One min they want a focus on multiplayer and now they are focused on wanting a better solo experience etc.
0
Firestorm requires you to still have pieces and skill gems to be used.
D3 you can still skip some pieces and use a build. For example I can have 5 pieces of a set and still use the six set if I have RoRg. Sometimes you don't even need the 6 set and just go for 2 set and then the rest from a different set.
Even if it was the case that you absolutely need all six pieces for some reason (most cases you use a mixture for end game builds and cube RorG) it's much, much easier to gear from drops in d3 than PoE (as it relies on a trading system).
Another thing to note is that both D3 and PoE are essentially the same game but with different packaging. Both farm maps (grifts in case of d3) and both require optimized builds for true end game. You will also find yourself farming uber atziri quite a bit in end game PoE, kind of like how you farm ubers in d3 for HF ammys.
0
Realistically you can build from a single item in both games. It's not that d3 lacks that, d3 it's just more efficient because you are more likely to get the legendary you might find useful, from a drop.
I'm not sure what you find dumb and emo. I don't interpret that at all from what he wrote... @.@
0
Same here I have different builds with 13 characters in D3. Have different builds with 5 90s in PoE. That's not the point of what the discussion is.
Being informed is different from being a know-it-all. Everyone has opinions right? But I find that some people's opinions are way more valid than others. And is exponentially more so with experience and research. When having a meaningful discussion about a game or any other hobby you as a dedicated participant takes an active role in bringing in-depth discussion opposed to shallow interpretation. It helps the developers and may provide insight to other players. Regardless of approval or disagreement.
1
Game Experience:
Have played since launch, and is my current game (don't play anything else).
Experienced and knowledgeable on most meta builds.
Understanding of optimizing builds and using alternative gear set ups depending on the scenario.
History with online communities:
My first online community I was involved with was when I was 10, which was Gaia online (pretty geeky but was a blast). Most of my threads were about anime, sci-fi and jrpgs (think ff7). I was active on the forums until the age of 16.
When I started to play Everquest I was involved with some bad theory crafting posts. Played Everquest until I moved on to World of Warcraft and thus active on the world of Warcraft forums. Played the game and remained active in the community until my departure of World of Warcraft which was after I beta tested warlords of Draenor (hated warrior changes). Most posts were about balance changes, spec theory (theory crafting) regarding the class: warrior.
Moved to League of Legends which I played for about a year when I was reintroduced to Diablo 3 (HATED D3 launch). Was not much involved with the community site as it was toxic.
Started to play seasons in D3 was semi-active in the community until I completely walked away last year. The forums on the d3 site are plain toxic and horrible and no meaningful discussion comes out of that joke of a community.
Team Experience:
I apply with some team experience. I started to really get into with World of Warcraft. I started as a member of ONITALL (largest guild on Nordrassil) in wrath of the lich king. Started to gather mats and craft gear, afterwards depositing it in gbank. From there I started to communicating with some officers and became buddies with the guild leader. I was involved with some major guild events (pvp tournaments, Orgrimmar city raids, Stormwind marches), 5 or so months later I formed a raid group and was promoted to raid leader, nearly a year later was appointed one of the officers, I left ONITALL at the end of Cataclysm and went to the Horde.
Notable experience was in Area-52 where I joined the semi-hardcore raiding group, unrelenting chaos. I was a warrior dps main/off tank:3 for their main 10 man group and had a noticeable voice in boss strategy and helping other raid members maximize their damage and explained to the tanks how they should tank certain bosses (Heroic Shamans as an example).
Outside of video games I work as a pipe layer for a construction company. I am involved with grade work, shooting grade, laying concrete, metal, conduit pipe etc. I am with a 4 man crew and involved with a lot of the math that goes into laying pipe. Aside from skill craft experience, one must know how to operate with the crew. Communication is key regarding safety, planning and other various parts of the job.
Availability:
I work from 7am-5:30pm and arrive home at 6pm. Rest of time is involved looking around diablofans and playing d3, sometimes watching an episode of some anime I like. My availability from mon-Thurs is 6ishpm-11:30pm (which would be times I would be active on the forums).
Fri I get out early at 4pm EST and arrive home around 5ish. I would be available from 5pm-midnight.
Sat and Sun I usually have off, the only exception would be Sat, sometimes I work but it very rarely happens. I act as a sound guy for a small business on Sat but only for two hours, and Sun I work as a sound technician from 11:30am-2pm. Rest of the day I'm free.
If the diablo 3 moderators etc. need more information please contact me through P.M
2
Notice: a bit of reading. No TLDR
A lot of the player base point out the lack of diversity in diablo 3 (though I feel like the game offers quite a bit of choice between builds, not in the sense of truly pushing higher grifts but in the sense of having a multitude of builds to farm TX and medium grifts (60 upwards to maybe 75).
Now the argument in place is that current games like PoE offer more content (excluding D2 for now) regarding builds.
But is the diversity with games like PoE an illusion. There is a idea that came to mind to me when I further investigated the end game of PoE and the end game of diablo 3. An I came up with the term illusion of diversity (to my surprise is already an actual concept).
An illusion of diversity is the correlation of diversity that the average player may perceive as "choice" (how many builds can I play?) regarding the context of abilities and the mathematical aspect of how damage output may work and what to do to optimize the variations of the effects of whatever spells may exist (that relate to weapon and gear effects, set bonuses etc). In other words you want the most optimal build to perform whatever task it is designed for (relations of fun is a perception of the player). Other aspects are involved with multiplicative damage and additive damage regarding D3's numbers.
In PoE a lot of builds exist but as you start cranking the difficulty and getting to the end game content (farming atziri and doing group maps) you start seeing that builds start becoming way less diverse. Obviously you want the optimization that a good build offers to your respective class and what groups really want (and how fun you perceive it as).
This post was made from LiquidSG a hardcore talisman player in PoE
From his first paragraph we interpret the same concepts in d3. Tons of builds exist and are viable but once we start talking about pushing, optimally farming etc, then those builds become obsolete for a player and you're pigeon holed into one of the optimized builds that the best players use no matter of the illusion that a player is presented. Content is large in the eyes of the player which is a good market that many companies use (soda companies for example).
What d3 did was simplify the ability system and forced you to use more abilities on your bar opposed to just spamming one or two abilities like PoE and d2, this has to do with design regarding the variations of choice that may exist in games with a more complex system of abilities and passives but that very system will still produce the same results but with a lesser degree of how many abilities you use to optimize damage (or toughness).
I have a few more posts I will make one also regarding the lack of trading in D3 and why it isn't needed. In PoE it's absolutely required to have a trading system in place, if not you would have a very, very hard time getting any gear you actually need.
If you have a non-sheep comment you would like to add to the thread please do so, but I won't bother replying to average observations made about a game's "end game" etc.. players who have lots of time in d3 and PoE are highly welcome to add to the conversation.
If you're a casual player of PoE, D3, or just want to read about this lack of diversity (that is still called diversity when you look at lower difficulties in PoE, that's what is stated in the reddit thread) here is a thread made 4 or so months back.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3p1mpc/lack_of_end_game_skill_viability_limiting_build/
3
You cannot make everything work on higher difficulties. it's not efficient... casual players feel like they have all these options but with real content (meaning the true goal of the game) you need certain builds and items, just like in d3. The difference between the two is that Diablo 3 strips the pointless complexity of the tree and forces you to use more than one ability with some auras up. Poe's combat is very simple but what makes it appear complicated is the skill system and the talent trees.
1
2
1
Swap gear/skill swap. That's something I feel would make things much, much easier. I really hate having to swap out gear manually. The swap gear should be a "storage space" for that second set instead of it being stored via stash and just having the gear interchange.
Since no trading exists in d3: db, and other mats should have their own separate icon to tell you the amount you have (similar to blood shards) and not taking space up in our stash.
We need to reduce the amount of things that are stored within our stash and within our bags... since we have limited storage space and lack a mule program to draw gear from other characters.
1
No there isn't... Do you know what we refer to when we say "viable end game?" Poe is about farming atziri and fucking maps anything else is just a build up to that state. Unlike you I'm not a fanboy. I played PoE extensively and wrote a review for it multiple times... one of my reviews happens to be on steam. The state of the game has always been the same as d3. They tune down a bunch of builds then the HC community plays them (SC talisman too) then they figure out which are the most optimal builds. Last season for example there was ONLY eight viable builds for the top players to push with... EIGHT.
Diversity VS simplicity is a misconstrued argument about a game like Poe, and D2. Like you said all builds are presented on the forums as guides for people to use. Same thing with d2, is in poe. You're still pigeon holed into what builds are more optimal. That's not diversity, that's an illusion of diversity.
That's why the original shit head dev (Jay Wilson) did not include an unnecessarily "diverse" system in d3, because he knew that was one of the many flaws in diablo 2. 95 percent of the community used net builds, while the very small community that did the math made the builds that we see online and use.
But I can tell you're one of those lots of people that think they know it all without doing the research and have no ACTUAL experience with the reality of the end game. Video games is how I pass my time outside of work. I spend 7 hours+ a day on the weekdays and 10+ hours a day on the weekends when I have off from work. I've experienced BOTH the diablo franchise and path of exile.
I gave POE a positive review, I've enjoyed both the games and they both have different things to offer (cons and pros). So before you fly off your chair into an unsightly, opinionated, half-assed, subjective post with little to no examples, while misinterpreting something; maybe you should think before you post.
0
I'll have to check this out myself. I've been looking for these types of tools with no luck.
Edit: looks pretty rad. Thanks for the share.
0
Pretty cool not sure if I personally would want to relive d1 or d2 but i have some friends who might want to play some diablo again. I'll point em your way.