so i guess you think that if a topic has been talked about a hundred times, its enough talk and we should just accept it?
well its like your mother telling you not to stay up late a hundret times when you were young and you still didnt accept it .. right?
excuses aren't lame - excuses are important to understand the mindframe of people. Once you understood this by having something like empathy you can react accordingly and try to do something against the problem. It even enables yourself to realize that there is indeed a problem.
But ofcourse if you are egocentric and only care about your own oppinion, of course what you say makes sense.
But basically you're just being unconstructive. - You even quote a post which states "this is not an excuse" (and i agree with that - the post is analyzing the situation in an abstract way - not even writing about him/herself) but complain that excuses (like the one quoted) are lame.
You are not only unconstructive but also rather contradictory.
I have another word for that but i will get banned if i say it. - but i guess you got the point
Totally misses the point. Secondly, get mad. It shows how little argument you have against it. If there is no excuse, as you have said. Then ALL point and feelings are moot. They are entirely irrelevant. Cheaters will exist in all walks, no matter what is going on. You could get EVERYTHING you ask for in the game, and there will still people that cheat the system some how. That is the nature of human beings. If you cheat, you lack moral fiber, nothing else, nothing more. Any reason, any attempt at validation is an excuse.
If cheating didn't give an advantage people wouldn't do it. Simple as that. Even if it's entirely for themselves, and only affect themselves. The AH was a prime example of this. People complained the AH didn't allow them to play the game. Now I bet these same people are botting, because they don't want to actually play the game. They want an excuse to whine, and an excuse blame, and an excuse to cheat the system. It's all excuses, which are entirely moot and entirely irrelevant.
Why are you still posting in this thread? Your responses are the same every time.You aren't contributing, you're just giving the same black and white rationale and trying to impose your self-righteous opinion as the only correct one. An excuse to whine? Even people who don't even bot complain about the exact same issues with the game that drive people to bot!
I understand that you are extremely bent over the fact that I am admitting to botting; however, I don't think that you fully understand the sacrifices I've made as a service member. Does that excuse me from botting? No, it doesn't. It is cheating, I never said it wasn't. I work in healthcare in a forward deployed command. I know that you might not grasp that concept, but it is nothing like sitting in my parents' basement playing a game for hours a day without any responsibilities. People's lives depend on me and after a day of work sometimes I want to enjoy a game. Why would I want to take care of people all day or do physical training routines all day and come back to grind out materials only to never have the opportunity to even enjoy the end game? There are solutions to this problem and frankly, bots aren't the problem. There are much larger issues here. Games are meant for enjoyment and competition, but so far Blizzard has missed the mark on both for D3. Bots aside, the people with nothing but time to grind away at this game will always have the upper hand. I saw skill mentioned in this thread, but currently, time investment > skill in D3.
I work, I workout, I read, everyday. I have a wife and 2 kids. [...]You choose to be a service member. My father was a Master Sgt in the Air Force. While I don't know what it's like to serve, I do know what it's like to live with it. How much I had to sacrifice while a father had to move around every 2-3. Friends, Family, Stability. I had none of that shit as a child. Anyone that mentions service in anything beyond when asked, is asking for curried favor. You want your service to be an excuse, otherwise why mention it? Literally has no bearing on the situation at hand. Diablo 3 is a time sink. You don't want to invest into a time sink. Don't fucking play the game. Simple as that. If you have to cheat to get by, then this game isn't for you. Just move on.
Your logic of cheating could be literally used for any walk of life, in any situation. It's like saying I steal because I work hard, but don't make enough. Yet, I am sure if someone broke into your house, you wouldn't let that shit go because they have it hard. Having it hard isn't an excuse. And you damn well know it.
D3 faults aren't a reason to cheat. It's another excuse. You cheat because you want too. And you cheat because it's easy. Nothing else, nothing more. If you didn't care, you wouldn't post about it. You posted to rub in peoples faces. I don't buy it. And I'm not going to let you have it either.
I will acknowledge your point made in a post after this one about the indirect impact of botting on unknowing players. That is a valid point. My only other contribution here is that I am not trying to justify myself, I am not trying to convince you that what I am doing or how I utilize the game is right, and I am not trying to leverage my lifestyle as an excuse. My point was merely to be an insight into the mindset of why some people bot. Very few people I see on botting sites have a mindset different than mine about botting. It is a convenience to them when they lack the opportunity to put in the massive hours that others can afford. My only point that I would want to get across is that in the current state of the game, the fact that time is the only factor of the game affecting group play directly divides the community into small groups. This is not conducive to encouraging group play or overall growth in the game. If anything it will just turn away more and more people from the game until the community is so small that forming a group will take hours. People will just say "Fuck it. I can't put in the time and no one will group because I am so far behind, I might as well quit".
One more thing to consider; botting will never stop. Perma bans are not effective. They will shrink the community because a majority will just never buy a new license. Those who do will just start botting all over again.
This thread is practically full of people praising bot bans. I guarantee you that some people praising are botters themselves, but my intent was not to "rub it in", but to provide insight into the opposite end of the spectrum.
[snip]
An honest, thoughtful and considered post. It's interesting to hear from different people and get an idea of what the player base is thinking. It's clear that there's a large difference between this type of bot use and, for example, someone who makes money from streaming/being at the top of the game. I think if you are amongst the elite and vying for top of the leader boards, part of that achievement has to be dedication and sacrifice - like a pro sportsman has to make - so using a bot to cut out the less desirable parts and still expect the credit and all the upside is inherently wrong.
It's not original. It's not considerate posting. It isn't interesting. It's run of the mill, woe is me, type of post. With a do something about it at the end. He has to throw in that he is a service member, as some kind of stop gap for his behavior. He is trying to excuse the behavior to cope with making a decision. He might not care, but if he didn't care, he wouldn't bot. You can't have it both ways.
I understand that you are extremely bent over the fact that I am admitting to botting; however, I don't think that you fully understand the sacrifices I've made as a service member. Does that excuse me from botting? No, it doesn't. It is cheating, I never said it wasn't. I work in healthcare in a forward deployed command. I know that you might not grasp that concept, but it is nothing like sitting in my parents' basement playing a game for hours a day without any responsibilities. People's lives depend on me and after a day of work sometimes I want to enjoy a game. Why would I want to take care of people all day or do physical training routines all day and come back to grind out materials only to never have the opportunity to even enjoy the end game? There are solutions to this problem and frankly, bots aren't the problem. There are much larger issues here. Games are meant for enjoyment and competition, but so far Blizzard has missed the mark on both for D3. Bots aside, the people with nothing but time to grind away at this game will always have the upper hand. I saw skill mentioned in this thread, but currently, time investment > skill in D3.
Well, I'll start off by saying that I am a botter. Do I value my account? To some extent, but would it ruin my life if it got terminated? Nah. So a little bit about me and why I choose to bot; I am active duty military serving overseas. I work in a very high tempo environment and my time to play is limited. Some of you feel that this is a valid reason for me to enjoy the game less than you do. I think we can all agree that end game is where the enjoyment comes from. Having the gear and paragons to run GRs with friends and push some higher GRs is what I bot for. I cannot afford to sit in front of my computer for 16 hours a day grinding out materials and levels and gear to ultimately get to the part where I can enjoy the game.
I don't have 1000 keys sitting in my bank or pages full of mats. I am barely over 1000 paragon, but fairly close to 1500. Yes, I do have really good gear. No, I am not even ranked on the leaderboards. I don't play for bragging rights or to flex my epeen at the end of the season. I have botted fairly conservatively. 8 hrs most in one session and most of the time anywhere from 2-5 days a week randomly selected days.
As Chainer said, in the current system, even at my current paragon level, most people do not want to group because my PL is considered low. So my ability to play outside of a small group of friends is limited. This essentially bottlenecks the community into different tiers that are not even based on skill, but on time put into the game. The community gets smaller by the day and different aspects drive different people away, but I can assure you that the botters, even the 24/7 ones helped sustain the community. Many of you condemn botters, but at the same time you have benefitted from botters. You do not suffer the consequences of account closure but in some way, running in that group with a botter you benefitted. Should all accounts be wiped then? Ignorance is one thing, but a lot of you are being very hypocritical. You celebrate the bans when you benefitted in the end. Botting is not the problem here. Bots provide a means to and end. Most bots cannot run past GR80 roughly, so these people you feel threatened by on the leaderboards did not have the bot get them their rank. Like I said, the bot provided a means to afford that opportunity for them to rank but it did not get it for them. So this brings me back to my original statement. I don't have the means to put in the same amount of time as a streamer. You want a competition based on skill, but currently skill is not the determining factor, its time. But I should be at a disadvantage because I cannot afford to use donations or my mom and dad's savings account to support me? I'm not knocking people's lifestyles but right now Blizzard has dictated that these are the factors that will divide the playerbase.
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One more thing to consider; botting will never stop. Perma bans are not effective. They will shrink the community because a majority will just never buy a new license. Those who do will just start botting all over again.
This thread is practically full of people praising bot bans. I guarantee you that some people praising are botters themselves, but my intent was not to "rub it in", but to provide insight into the opposite end of the spectrum.
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Well, I'll start off by saying that I am a botter. Do I value my account? To some extent, but would it ruin my life if it got terminated? Nah. So a little bit about me and why I choose to bot; I am active duty military serving overseas. I work in a very high tempo environment and my time to play is limited. Some of you feel that this is a valid reason for me to enjoy the game less than you do. I think we can all agree that end game is where the enjoyment comes from. Having the gear and paragons to run GRs with friends and push some higher GRs is what I bot for. I cannot afford to sit in front of my computer for 16 hours a day grinding out materials and levels and gear to ultimately get to the part where I can enjoy the game.
I don't have 1000 keys sitting in my bank or pages full of mats. I am barely over 1000 paragon, but fairly close to 1500. Yes, I do have really good gear. No, I am not even ranked on the leaderboards. I don't play for bragging rights or to flex my epeen at the end of the season. I have botted fairly conservatively. 8 hrs most in one session and most of the time anywhere from 2-5 days a week randomly selected days.
As Chainer said, in the current system, even at my current paragon level, most people do not want to group because my PL is considered low. So my ability to play outside of a small group of friends is limited. This essentially bottlenecks the community into different tiers that are not even based on skill, but on time put into the game. The community gets smaller by the day and different aspects drive different people away, but I can assure you that the botters, even the 24/7 ones helped sustain the community. Many of you condemn botters, but at the same time you have benefitted from botters. You do not suffer the consequences of account closure but in some way, running in that group with a botter you benefitted. Should all accounts be wiped then? Ignorance is one thing, but a lot of you are being very hypocritical. You celebrate the bans when you benefitted in the end. Botting is not the problem here. Bots provide a means to and end. Most bots cannot run past GR80 roughly, so these people you feel threatened by on the leaderboards did not have the bot get them their rank. Like I said, the bot provided a means to afford that opportunity for them to rank but it did not get it for them. So this brings me back to my original statement. I don't have the means to put in the same amount of time as a streamer. You want a competition based on skill, but currently skill is not the determining factor, its time. But I should be at a disadvantage because I cannot afford to use donations or my mom and dad's savings account to support me? I'm not knocking people's lifestyles but right now Blizzard has dictated that these are the factors that will divide the playerbase.
TLDR: I'm a botter, ban me idc.