To support Kallizk's comment, assuming that DiabloWiki is correct:
Thorns damage is increased by your primary attribute, 1% per point, as any other damage.
TIL, thanks for the confirmation!
Quote from Talyn_Rahl
I was just using Invoker's as an example, to illustrate that you need more than what Necro currently have to make Thorns viable.
So would LoN Petthorn be viable? Possibly, but with (so far) no runes for any skills that support Thorns (like used in LoN Pony), I still think the damage would be lacking.
I do agree that thorns most likely won't be viable for some of the same reasons you list. Specifically because there's no thorns dmg modifier on offensive abilities. Would be cool if on command skeleton/skeletal mage, there was one...
@Kal: Really is this true?! Any one test and confirm or any blue posts about that? I thought it was strength specifically.
@Talyn: there are more viable and better thorns builds than Invokers. The damage boost form main stat is far superior and account for an order of magnitude more dmg output than the dmg buff from Invokers does. E.g LoN Pony bomber or frenzy thorns barb with Hack
Don't forget the thorns gem... will probably use that with pet builds that grant the pets your thorns damage.
Eh, even with the Thorns gem, the Passive and the Legendary, I don't think Thorns wil work for Necro.
I mean, to make Thorns work you need something like the Invoker's set, which MASSIVELY boosts your thorns damage and gives it an offensive use. I can't see a Necro ThornPet build working, outside of MAYBE LoN, or some other very niche build.
^This, also not to mention Necros main stat is intelligence, therefore it will be missing about 15,000% dmg multiplier from the strength (rough estimate of average strength with about 1500 paragon) that a barb or crusader gets. Thorns WILL NOT be a viable build at least for anything remotely high level.
No way any DH build currently comes close to the DPS output of Arachyr's buffed set especially for groups. It's possible in a jam to run a number of things but the overall best 2's, 3's, and 4's comp will always have a clear winner.
In similar fashion you could run a zDPS DH but it's sub-optimal to barb and monk combo; thus meaning it won't be readily invited if the group has the choice between those options.
Yeah I know many people say, "play what you want, who cares what the meta is". I understand this stance but, for me personally, if I'm not optimizing the time I play the game it becomes un-fun. In my opinion that's directly tied to what's meta and what can allow me to group and grind paragon most easily.
It's unfortunate that many classes haven't been in the 4-man meta in years, furthermore that many of those same classes' solo builds have remained unchanged in an equal amount of time (at least up to this coming season):
LoN Bomber, FoK DH, Gen Monk, Firebirds Wiz, Charge Barb/Frenzy Thorns, other I'm sure I forgot...
So with the recent PTR hotfix to Barber at this point in time it appears that the build will no longer be viable thus putting the next season meta into disarray.
I was wondering what everyone thinks the new META for 2's, 3's, and 4's will be next season as a result?
It's about a 10% nerf to the overall set damage. Furthermore the fact that they moved the damage of the set from the tornados to actual WW means that using 1-hand weapons isn't necessarily the best anymore.
which begs the question why not just use IK set since the damage multiplier is the exact same.
Actually we have allreaddy everyone but Druid from D2.
Amazon = DH
Paladin = Crusader
Barb = barb
Assassin = monk
Necro = wd
Sor = wiz
Druid = (no druid yet)
I don't agree with this TBH
Amazon javelin tree isn't represented at all in D3.
Paladin melee portion of the combat tree is more similar to Monk than anything else.
Assassin Trap and Martial Arts Tree isn't at all in the game, DH Caltrops, or Monk LTK etc aren't nearly the same IMHO.
WD have no bone skills or curses like Nercos did in D2 and although poison is a popular rune choice for certain WD abilities the said skills aren't similar to things like poison nova.
There are no druids but some of their signature spells have a D3 equivalent.
Armageddon = bombarment (Sader) or rain of vengence (DH)
Summon bear = Gargantuan (WD)
Summon Wolves = zombie dogs (WD)
Tornado = Tornado (wizard)
All in all I think the most unrepresented classes in D2 are javelin Amazon builds, Assassin Trap and Martial Arts trees, and both Summon and Bone necromancer builds. I think adding a class that just used javelins would limit build design options- same for a trap assassin type class. That said I think a Diablo 2 like necro class could bring back a lot of the fan favorite abilities like Teeth, Bone Spear or Spirit, Psn Nova. Curses for zDPS builds, hell even bone walls/prisons for collecting rift density.
maybe you're right Dashell23 but the image noticeably changes between seasons 1 and 2 in my opinion. Season 1 it's clearly a monk but seasons 2-8 it doesn't look the same to me at all.
Is it female crusader with face of female necromancer??? So... It must be something teaser-like, doesn't it? SO WHY THERE IS NO DISCUSSION ABOUT NEW CHAR ON PICTURE???
I don't think it's a male Monk, if you zoom in the portrait looks like it has silver hair and a goatee. The portrait in rank 4 is a male Monk, you can see the differences easily.
0
Quote from Talyn_Rahl
I do agree that thorns most likely won't be viable for some of the same reasons you list. Specifically because there's no thorns dmg modifier on offensive abilities. Would be cool if on command skeleton/skeletal mage, there was one...
0
@Kal: Really is this true?! Any one test and confirm or any blue posts about that? I thought it was strength specifically.
@Talyn: there are more viable and better thorns builds than Invokers. The damage boost form main stat is far superior and account for an order of magnitude more dmg output than the dmg buff from Invokers does. E.g LoN Pony bomber or frenzy thorns barb with Hack
0
^This, also not to mention Necros main stat is intelligence, therefore it will be missing about 15,000% dmg multiplier from the strength (rough estimate of average strength with about 1500 paragon) that a barb or crusader gets. Thorns WILL NOT be a viable build at least for anything remotely high level.
0
No way any DH build currently comes close to the DPS output of Arachyr's buffed set especially for groups. It's possible in a jam to run a number of things but the overall best 2's, 3's, and 4's comp will always have a clear winner.
In similar fashion you could run a zDPS DH but it's sub-optimal to barb and monk combo; thus meaning it won't be readily invited if the group has the choice between those options.
1
Yeah I know many people say, "play what you want, who cares what the meta is". I understand this stance but, for me personally, if I'm not optimizing the time I play the game it becomes un-fun. In my opinion that's directly tied to what's meta and what can allow me to group and grind paragon most easily.
It's unfortunate that many classes haven't been in the 4-man meta in years, furthermore that many of those same classes' solo builds have remained unchanged in an equal amount of time (at least up to this coming season):
LoN Bomber, FoK DH, Gen Monk, Firebirds Wiz, Charge Barb/Frenzy Thorns, other I'm sure I forgot...
0
With the damage buff to arachyrs and the GR density changes I think gen monks fall out
0
So with the recent PTR hotfix to Barber at this point in time it appears that the build will no longer be viable thus putting the next season meta into disarray.
I was wondering what everyone thinks the new META for 2's, 3's, and 4's will be next season as a result?
I'm going with:
4-man:
zDPS Barb
zDPS Monk
2x DPS WD with Arachyr's set.
3-man:
zDPS Barb
zDPS Monk
WD Arachyr's
2-man:
zDPS monk
WD Arachyr
1
IK is better unassumigly because it doesn't require the sue of zodiac to keep up WotB.
Being able to use skull grasp coe and compass rose or using skull and FandR are better dmg overall by far.
0
It's about a 10% nerf to the overall set damage. Furthermore the fact that they moved the damage of the set from the tornados to actual WW means that using 1-hand weapons isn't necessarily the best anymore.
which begs the question why not just use IK set since the damage multiplier is the exact same.
IMHO the best WE set isn't really wasted anymore.
0
Amazon javelin tree isn't represented at all in D3.
Paladin melee portion of the combat tree is more similar to Monk than anything else.
Assassin Trap and Martial Arts Tree isn't at all in the game, DH Caltrops, or Monk LTK etc aren't nearly the same IMHO.
WD have no bone skills or curses like Nercos did in D2 and although poison is a popular rune choice for certain WD abilities the said skills aren't similar to things like poison nova.
There are no druids but some of their signature spells have a D3 equivalent.
Armageddon = bombarment (Sader) or rain of vengence (DH)
Summon bear = Gargantuan (WD)
Summon Wolves = zombie dogs (WD)
Tornado = Tornado (wizard)
All in all I think the most unrepresented classes in D2 are javelin Amazon builds, Assassin Trap and Martial Arts trees, and both Summon and Bone necromancer builds. I think adding a class that just used javelins would limit build design options- same for a trap assassin type class. That said I think a Diablo 2 like necro class could bring back a lot of the fan favorite abilities like Teeth, Bone Spear or Spirit, Psn Nova. Curses for zDPS builds, hell even bone walls/prisons for collecting rift density.
0
maybe you're right Dashell23 but the image noticeably changes between seasons 1 and 2 in my opinion. Season 1 it's clearly a monk but seasons 2-8 it doesn't look the same to me at all.
Season 1:
http://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/blog_header/uq/UQNXKOHSAWWA1409562984853.jpg
Season 2:
http://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/blog_header/KRV6UMVSYVX21423868693794.jpg
0
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/215226-what-will-happen-at-blizzcon?page=4
0
I agree, there is a male monk in the #4 spot, you can see many differences
0
I don't think it's a male Monk, if you zoom in the portrait looks like it has silver hair and a goatee. The portrait in rank 4 is a male Monk, you can see the differences easily.
0
I didn't play season 7, just wanted to clarify something based on the tracker you made...
this season we need to complete chapters 1-4 to get our 6 set in their entirety?
unlike seasons 5 and 6 when we only had to do 3 specific things in the seasons journey?