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Quote from ElectricEel

I had an explanation for everything I put forth and I have no doubt, Ray of Frost, Disintegrate, Slow time and the spells I mentioned that are good will be seen often. Based on the damage it does compared to every other spell and the ap cost yes you can reject it I haven't seen a single person with an energy twister build yet....

I haven't seen a single image, of seeker missiles with the words under it and if you do a search I don't think you will either ! So don't act like everybody should know that.


You can have fun being a jerk with yourself.....

Alright, last post from me on this.

I have no doubt that every single spell available to the wizard will be seen often. Your opinion of the best spells is great, but stop trying to force it on others.

This is the Wizard section of the forums. Maybe I shouldn't, but I assume that everyone here has been watching Beta footage. Magic Missile is used a lot. It's very distinctive. Confusing it with Arcane Torrent, to me, is unimaginable.

If I'm being a jerk to you, it's because I've gotten tired of your posts like the trash thread and how you pop into other people's build threads and instead of posting constructive criticism, you pretty much just tell them that their build is worthless and that your's is better. It's disrespectful. And you know I'm far from the only person in this section of the forums that has an issue with you.

Quote from DKR_87

Would you guys advise switching out Frost Nova-Crimson with Slow Time-Crimson?

Instead of 110% dmg increase, I'll get 140% dmg increase.

I'll lose the freeze effect from Fr.Nova, but slow time will slow them AND any missiles..thoughts?

Yah, sorry to contribute to the derailment of your thread.

IMO I lean towards no (keeping nova). Frost Nova provides great control and I think can really save you if things suddenly take a turn downhill. Maybe Slow Time for the earlier difficulties and Nova for the later? I think this is one question you're really going to have to play test to determine, the spells are different enough it's hard to guess.

Quote from ElectricEel

You think people going to be casting energy twister later in game ? Stop being a jerk. You know good and well there isn't a picture of seeker MM and that stuff was labeled Arcane turrent.

You're still going on about that? I'm not holding Arcane Torrent against you, although the fact you could even think it was seeker MM baffles me. I never said there was a shot of seeker MM, but there is a shot of indigo MM and it's on all the beta streams. MM doesn't hit the ground. Isn't channeled.

I've never stated an opinion on Energy Twister ever. I know that Blizzard has said they want all spells to be viable and thus trust that the spell will either work fine or be adjusted. Theory crafting is Theory crafting, not a place where you flat out reject something as trash because you personally think it's stupid.

For someone who goes into every build thread and proceeds to tell the OP that their build sucks damage wise compared to yours (which you then link) you have a lot of nerve calling me the jerk.

Quote from ElectricEel

Hey I was right about Energy armor and the lower ap usage, and so much more, don't blame me for using Diablo Wiki and a youtube video labeled Arcane Torrent....

If only that's all I was talking about. I think the worst part about the whole thing is that you don't even realize it.

Quote from Babycake

The purple thing IS Arcane Torrent, it is a channeled cast and drains AP per sec.

Hello Babycake, welcome to the Wizard section of the forums. Meet Electric who absolutely refuses to believe anything anyone else says, but who's always right.

He'll give you the build you'll be playing at some point.

Quote from ElectricEel

I don't think that purple thing is arcane torrent man, I think that is SEEKER Magic Missile !

Their both purple... I don't know for sure.

You're killing me. 35 seconds is Magic Missile.

1). Is the spell at 50 seconds channeled?
2). Is it purple? (indicates Arcane damage)

Now, I think you'll agree it's not Disintegrate. So, using the power of deduction (not to mention the appearance of the Arcane Torrent tooltip), what is the only spell this could be?

Quote from ElectricEel

I read the whole post, and the one you did before it.... what is your point?

My point is that it's NOT Arcane Torrent!!!! Fine, I'll link it for you since you seem to not know what it looks like:

Jump to 50 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwfE5GsYFpg&feature=player_detailpage#t=50s

Quote from ElectricEel

I've linked to that same video I'm pretty sure that is arcane torrent... at 3:37 there is a video of meteor here:


Go to 2:10 I think that is meteor... there is a youtube video of a guy commentating too and I'm reaaaaaaly sure that was meteor.



I haven't found another arcane torrent video though...

My god, you really don't read my posts before responding do you? 2:10 is base or Crimson Meteor, yes. 3:37 is Indigo, not Torrent.

Yah. Knew I shouldn't have taken the time.

Quote from DKR_87

explosions are being caused by the monsters. They wouldn't posses a 20% dmg increase from Glass Cannon, or 40% dmg increase from Familiar-Crimson like you, the wizard, do. Unless the adjacent monsters in a Slow Time-Crimson bubble or are Frozen-Crimson, they won't take any more damage than is labeled there : 153-177.

That's getting a little nit picky on wordings. I would assume that they would be fully affected by modifiers. That base number certainly will be from your attack stat. I read it as "there's a chance when enemies die to set off a small explosion at their location".

Edit: to avoid a double post, on meteor:

No it is AoE, not a very large AoE, but it's still meteor so it hits an area. Here:

Go to 3 minutes 37 seconds. It's labeled as Arcane Torrent, but it clearly isn't channeled and it looks nothing at all like the official Blizzard release of Torrent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqEGfgZuLI8

Huge props to Geoff326 for catching this.

Quote from DKR_87

Quote from Hypernova

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#djPaSO!bXV!bZZZaZ

Electrocute is purely for Arcane Power regeneration. Meteor is your main source of AoE Damage, Ray of Frost is the follow up and also your highest single target DPS. Frost Nova is for increased damage and crowd control, familiar is obviously for the increased damage, and Slow Time with the 140% cast increase is mostly for boss fights but, can also be handy in sticky situations. Glass Cannon for damage, Astral Presence for regeneration, and Evocation to use Frost Nova and Time Slow more during boss fights.

In a 3 second period Meteor-Crimson will do 1264.8 Fire damage costing you 60 AP

In a 3 second period ArcOrb-Crimson will do 1686 Arcane damage costing you 61 AP

I'm worried Meteor might be a bit clumsy, and I'm not sure of the yardage.

We shall see!

Ah but Crimson meteor isn't the top end. It's Indigo. And we just found a video of it. The 14 meteors touch ground in about .8 of a second.

Edit: to be a bit more precise I think we've found a video of it, the problem is that only 7 meteors are falling, not 14, BUT it isn't a blizzard release and it could be an older version.

Quote from Geoff326

Quote from ElectricEel

Funny you should say that about RoF and Disintegrate with Arcane Torrent Oneoftheorder because I've been talking about doing those spells for days. I plan on casting Arcane Torrent with Red rune to get the 120% damage, and then Disintegrate while the damage is increased using Red rune because its damage is higher than AT, and I will be casting them both often. RoF is higher than disintegrate but costs more mana, and only hits one target...

A bunch of people are going to be using these 3 spells along with Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, and Energy Armor/Storm Armor.

Video of Arcane Torrent: go to 3 minutes 37 seconds.

out of the 6 spells you mentioned, I currently only plan to use 1 of them :). I guess I'm not part of that "bunch".

I think your vid misidentified Arcane Torrent. the animation at 3:37 actually looks like Meteor (Indigo) aka Meteor Shower. here's the definition

Meteor Shower
Unleash a volley of 14 smaller meteors that strike for 139 - 189 Fire damage.

I think this is the real Arcane Torrent at 50 seconds. it actually looks like the little spell icon

Omg...... You're right on the Indigo Meteor.... I'm not sure why the clip of the skill plays twice once at normal speed and then again in slow motion. When I first saw this vid I remember being a little confused at this part because the wizard -clearly- isn't channeling. Watching it over and over it looks like back when this was taken it was either only 7 meteors OR it comes down in 2 waves of 7 meteors. There are definitely 2 cast animations though..... Hmmm.

Regardless this is AMAZING. Indigo Meteor is SO viable, those are dropping fast enough to easily be usable to decimate groups! I am SO glad, I wanted to use this Rune/Spell combo so badly.

Edit: trashed youtube links to make post smaller.

Quote from DKR_87

Quote from ElectricEel

3 Seconds of him standing still will gain enough arcane power for 5.8 seconds of RoF (it'll add 43.5 arcane power) or, unlimited Disintegrate since it is only 13 ap a cast, if not casting for 1 second. This is why I'm sure I'll be alternating RoF, DIAT. It is almost impossible that he will have ap problems.

I ran this through my SuperExcelSheet x3000 actually, and I found that alternating RoF with Disintegrate yields lower damage output over any time frame. It is, according to the numbers, best to wait for quick regen by not casting anything at all, and then continue RoF until exhaustion

or

MM-Golden to regen AP faster during RoF-downtime, and then continue RoF.

Suggestions,
DKR

I assume that's taking into account the build up time it takes to reach the Crimson top end damage? I assumed as much without crunching the numbers, there's always a trade off. To get that much damage output you have to stand still long enough. First thing you learn playing a Sorc in D2: a stationary Sorc is a dead Sorc.

It'll work multiplayer, not solo.

I'm curious. With your spreadsheet can you get some guesstimate numbers on Alabaster Disintegrate? I have a sneaking suspicion it is faaaaaaaaaar better than Crimson. Each of those little explosions that goes off is gonna be hitting several enemies. AoE damage is king in these types of games.

Quote from ElectricEel

3 Seconds of him standing still will gain enough arcane power for 5.8 seconds of RoF (it'll add 43.5 arcane power) or, unlimited Disintegrate since it is only 13 ap a cast, if not casting for 1 second. This is why I'm sure I'll be alternating RoF, DIAT. It is almost impossible that he will have ap problems.

Or you could cast Golden Electrocute twice and get 42 AP in 2 seconds. (1.3 less, a second faster)
Edit: Hah! I forgot base regen! So in 2 seconds casting the above you'll actually get 75 AP.

Riddle me this, what does more damage, standing around twiddling your thumbs or casting a spell twice?

You still don't get it. It's not an AP problem. It's the fact that incorporating an AP generator allows you to put out more damage. The faster you regen, the more damage you can do. He just booted his numbers by 20k from a simple Golden MM. I think that's a worthwhile investment.

I'd be hesitant to call any theory crafted build "final", but I get what you're saying. I'm not sure I'm with you on the Frost Nova and Wave of Force combo. If the target is frozen in place a knock-back isn't going to have any effect. Even if you weren't going for the knock-back, in that case Arcane Orb would fill the same role and do more damage.

With a build like this I agree with Storm over Energy since you don't have any of the huge sink spells which kinda force a large pool.

Slight concerns: You don't actually have anything that makes you a bit tankier, in fact with only Glass Cannon you're weaker defense wise than a base wizard. You also have no form of AP regen other than per second. Even with Storm reducing costs by a bit I have a feeling you're going to be a bit starved for AP.

I wouldn't worry about there being down time to recast Familiar, and for the same reason you shouldn't really worry about recasting your armor spell. To me the only reason to take Galvanizing is assuming the HP/sec scales with gear and reaches a useful number. Now. Recasting these actually becomes an issue with no AP gen spell since you need the downtime you'd normally use to refresh these spells to regen before the next fight.....

So the 2 suggestions I'd make: Swap out Wave of Force for Golden MM or Electrocute and switch Galvanizing Ward to Blur (assuming the HP/sec ends up being garbage, otherwise it's not so bad).

You can see from my concerns why it's a bit hard to say final huh? Until we actually test these builds out numbers alone sadly aren't enough. Can't wait for Beta to start so we can at least get a feel for the intro spells.

Nice build.