i've never seen his stream. just few vods with haori shi mitzu. he spent days for indepth analytics and statistics, farmed 1300 keys manually etc etc, only pathetic noobs which will never be top150 can enjoy his ban
"Enjoying real life" = Letting a computer play a game you dont enjoy anymore, then go troll fan forums of that game...
None takes a cheater personal or serious, its just internet is so full of miserable souls trying to spread their misery.
I can somehow relate to that statement though.
Its like he is having fun in real live while also getting something for nothing (basically for free) in Virtual life.
Sounds awesome to me
Because you bot... and then need to defend it. It's why your "explanations" are bullshit. They are excuses. It isn't awesome, it's pathetic. You bot a game you don't like, so you can play a different game you don't like. Super fucking pathetic.
Blizzard is trying to remove blatant cheaters and botters to see what their actual playerbase is... I bet this 100% has to do with stat crunching due to the new game being built.
Quote from Jalatiphranextnext Well now you are at least trying. thats something.
I kind of get now where the problem lies in our communication.
I guess you interpret what we state as an explanation for cheating - as an excuse for cheating.
You're not wrong. If someone says he bots because he has no time - its an excuse. But at the same time it's an explanation.
The difference between both is, that an explanation is objective and an excuse has a notion of emotional rating - by yourself. Rated in negative way of course.
Its negative because you say there is in general no excuse for cheating . and you'Re right again.
Of course when somebody says he is botting becaus he has no time it is an excuse BY THAT PERSON for that person.
However the statement / fact that somebody( note its anonymous here) cheated because of lack of time is not to be interpreted as an excuse but rather as an explanation for something.
We do not deny that its also an excuse but if you take it as an objective statement you can start asking WHY all this is happening. You woulnt say to this senstence that it is containing an excuse, would you? :" Someone could cheat because he lacks the time to otherwise reach his goals in the game."
Because here the word "could" implies that its only a possibility. Since an excuse has to directed at another person or a group of people.
So it all comes down to interpreting what is said in a way that will benefit the discussion. If you don't want to thats your coice of course - but for the sake of the discussion you should try not to see it as an excuse.(even if it is one)
First off, the topic of the thread is US/EU Ban Wave. There is NOTHING in the title to suggest I should be talking about WHY people cheat. Even if, I have covered all the excuses or, as you want to say, explanations under the 3 bases. Which you have so thoroughly made my point for me.
Let's talk about the bold part, and the reason your logic is flawed. Yes, that is an excuse covered under Time-Sink. You don't have the time, you don't get the goods. It's like anything else in life. You can't go to college, you don't get the degree. You don't work, you don't get money. Trying to justify and "explain" the situation is utterly ridiculous.
What you are doing is called, using Weasel Words. You are attempting to challenge that your "explanations" are somehow different from an excuse. It isn't. You have said so yourself. Here is a prime example:
Sometimes, the only one who can really know if their statement is an excuse or an explanation is the one saying it. Telling the police who
pulled you over that you are running late for work is a good example of this. If you were hoping to get out of a ticket or lying, it was probably an excuse. If the officer asked why you were driving 30 in a 25, and you answered honestly, it was an explanation.
Now, when you are trying to "explain" why you cheat on the internet. No one cares. We don't care if you are late to work, it can be explanation. It just doesn't matter. You're failing to realize this. Your "explanations" are falling on deaf ears, and unwilling participants.
Because the discussion has beat to death. There is literally 3 slots in which cheats fall under. Tedium(picking up items, farming, Rifts to Grifts,), Time-Sink(Farming), or Malfeasance( I don't care, I don't like this part of the game, fuck Blizzard). All of the reason cheaters cheat can be classified under these 3. What could you possibly enlighten on the situation, that hasn't been done before?
If you don't like Diablo 3 without cheats, and you cheat, then you aren't playing D3. Simple as that.
The difference in our view points is that you are hell-bent on classifying everything into its appropriate group, whereas I am attempting to more clearly state the items listed under each group. The reasons for using cheats do fit into your 3 groups, that much is fairly simple, they are all-encompassing.
Let's take a brief look at rifts. We could say that rifts serve purely to provide GR keys (tedious - monotonous). So far, the most commonly offered solution to the botting trend has been to remove the need for GR keys, however this will impact on rifts, making them redundant. So basically, you have solved the issue of tedious rifts by removing rifts completely.
I think removing rifts would be a bad idea and offer the alternative of a unique reward, making rifts more attractive. While GR keys are a unique reward available only in rifts, they do not provide any immediate benefits to the player, which leads to a sense of non-accomplishment (tedious - unrewarding).
AS you can see, there are 2 different reasons as to why rifts are tedious; monotony and lack of accomplishment. These factors, and the circumstances which form them do not become clear until we take a closer look at the issue. It is not the same thing to say;
"People cheat because rifts are tedious."
and
"Rifts are unrewarding and monotonous, which leads to the acceptance of cheats; furthermore these rifts are unrewarding/monotonous because X, Y and Z."
Personally, I would like to see rifts provide attractive rewards (some unique benefit, as leg gems are to GR, or mats are to bounties) which would bring immediate benefit to the player. This would provide more progression routes (variety in gameplay) for players, and allow GR keys to be phased out. This new reward should warrant a bump in rift difficulty (preferably on an infinite scale, just as GRs provide), which would make them more challenging (less tedious) and may also reduce the effectiveness of bot programs (which cannot play the game as well as a human).
You haven't said anything unique in the slightest. No more than I have. Expect I have said it in less words. The game is lacking is an excuse. You can beat, why the game lacks, to death. NONE of that is going to get fixed. It's too late for that to happen. It's delusional to even discuss the issues at hand, because you can have EVERYTHING you want, plus more. And fuckers with STILL cheat the system
Everything you want is the same of what we already have. It will just drive a more monotonousness gameplay, then we already have. Giving an even greater excuse for botting to happen. As streamlining the process prevents engagement. Sometimes the shit is convoluted to keep you engaged in what you are doing and why.
If Blizzard gives you an auto mat pickup, you will complain about not knowing your bag space and demand a counter. Cheaters will never be happy the game will always need improvement, and cheat will use any excuse for any reason to bot, cheat, or mod the game. Either play Diablo 3 as the experience intended or don't bother.
sorry how could i not understand what you were writing.
now after you repeated yourself for the 3rd time all becomes clear.
sorry - you are totally right - everything in life is black and white - as is cheating.
Then explain to me then, how cheating is so dynamic without making excuses? So I want you to think about it, and if your thought process falls under tedium, sink, or malfeasance. Because if your explanation does, then I don't want to hear it. I would love to hear something other than the 3. I'm being 100% serious. This is me, doing exactly as you ask, open minded and listening. Now, I want to you think about why cheaters cheat, and find a reason outside the 3 and get back to me.
look.. we are not arguing pro cheating. we are trying to discuss and analyze how we could make botting less attractive thats all.
why do you want to stop this discussion?
guess iam talking against a wall with some people here..
Because the discussion has beat to death. There is literally 3 slots in which cheats fall under. Tedium(picking up items, farming, Rifts to Grifts,), Time-Sink(Farming), or Malfeasance( I don't care, I don't like this part of the game, fuck Blizzard). All of the reason cheaters cheat can be classified under these 3. What could you possibly enlighten on the situation, that hasn't been done before?
If you don't like Diablo 3 without cheats, and you cheat, then you aren't playing D3. Simple as that.
so i guess you think that if a topic has been talked about a hundred times, its enough talk and we should just accept it?
well its like your mother telling you not to stay up late a hundret times when you were young and you still didnt accept it .. right?
excuses aren't lame - excuses are important to understand the mindframe of people. Once you understood this by having something like empathy you can react accordingly and try to do something against the problem. It even enables yourself to realize that there is indeed a problem.
But ofcourse if you are egocentric and only care about your own oppinion, of course what you say makes sense.
But basically you're just being unconstructive. - You even quote a post which states "this is not an excuse" (and i agree with that - the post is analyzing the situation in an abstract way - not even writing about him/herself) but complain that excuses (like the one quoted) are lame.
You are not only unconstructive but also rather contradictory.
I have another word for that but i will get banned if i say it. - but i guess you got the point
Totally misses the point. Secondly, get mad. It shows how little argument you have against it. If there is no excuse, as you have said. Then ALL point and feelings are moot. They are entirely irrelevant. Cheaters will exist in all walks, no matter what is going on. You could get EVERYTHING you ask for in the game, and there will still people that cheat the system some how. That is the nature of human beings. If you cheat, you lack moral fiber, nothing else, nothing more. Any reason, any attempt at validation is an excuse.
If cheating didn't give an advantage people wouldn't do it. Simple as that. Even if it's entirely for themselves, and only affect themselves. The AH was a prime example of this. People complained the AH didn't allow them to play the game. Now I bet these same people are botting, because they don't want to actually play the game. They want an excuse to whine, and an excuse blame, and an excuse to cheat the system. It's all excuses, which are entirely moot and entirely irrelevant.
"Why they're cheating" would be a super interesting thing to know for a developer of a game like this.
It's a useful discussion.
No it's not.
Here is the list:
Tedium - Picking up items
Farming - The sink (can't or won't do it)
Malfeasance - Fuck the police
That's it. That's literally the list of the reason why people cheat. There is nothing more too it. If you can think of any reason that isn't covered under these 3 bases. I'd would love to hear it. FFS there is a dude with no arms that doesn't cheat. What is your excuse?
"Can't or won't do it" - why they won't do it?
i.e. they don't want to / don't enjoy it - the question is, why they don't want to / don't enjoy it. As a developer or a designer you're constantly asking yourself "why/what do people enjoy/don't enjoy about my game/product"
And you still don't understand. There is no excuse. I'm not saying that there is an excuse, either. I am just saying that the subject is more interesting than "people who cheat should go play another game".
If there's a lot of people who say that your product sucks (or a certain part of it sucks) - via words OR ACTION (action in this case) - then it's all worth reviewing, analyzing, and learning from.
Sorry, that is under malfeasance. Can't or won't might even fall under tedium. It isn't interesting in the slightest. EVERYTHING mentioned here for reasons to bot or not do something, has been mentioned a 100 times. It's a beaten horse.
The games flaws has been mentioned. Numerous times, across numerous forums, across numerous mediums. At this point, if you know anything about D3, you know it's flaws. Excuses aren't interesting, excuses are lame.
"Why they're cheating" would be a super interesting thing to know for a developer of a game like this.
It's a useful discussion.
No it's not.
Here is the list:
Tedium - Picking up items
Farming - The sink (can't or won't do it)
Malfeasance - Fuck the police
That's it. That's literally the list of the reason why people cheat. There is nothing more too it. If you can think of any reason that isn't covered under these 3 bases. I'd would love to hear it. FFS there is a dude with no arms that doesn't cheat. What is your excuse?
To be honest, the holier than thou attitude gets tiresome, mostly because it's very shortminded. If you are not able to rationalize that a game is first and foremost to be enjoyed, and if they don't affect you, there is absolutely nothing you can say that would prove they are playing the game wrong by botting, if that's how they enjoy the game. Other thing is when people use it to get into the leaderboards, which certainly gives an advantadge over people who try to compete (small or big as it may be, i don't care and i won't talk about it because i don't really know). But otherwise ? How the game should be played means a squat on a singleplayer game.
They aren't playing Diablo 3 by botting. The tedium is the game. The farming is game. Grinding is the game. Without all of these elements then it's not Diablo 3. It's also not a singleplayer game, as gains made by botting can affect other players, if the botters so choose to play with randoms. You can benefit from the programs by proxy. I ask, what game are they playing if they bot. Because it's certainly not Diablo 3.
hes somewhat correct. Botting eliminates all the part of the game which is useless. Key farm, mat farm. These things are boring. (not like endless GR100 is better...)
There are many ppl out there who want to compete, even though they have life, for thembotting is a tool that helps to reduce the handicap between kids who study and have 16 hours a day to play. If you go to work, you simple feel ultimatly behind. Whether this feeling is true or not thats up to you to decide. It has been proven many times, that paragon isnt everything.
The paragon system should be changed completly anyways. This game is about getting loots and compete. What happens this seaons? you play legit 3 days till you geared, then bot + mindless GR100. Boring as fak.
Change paragon around Kadala:
1.) Increase the chance of getting a legendary
2.) increase the chance that this legendary is ancient.
Boom, it eliminates the material farm requirement, no more mindless para farm for powercreep, you get your loot, and opens the chance to the wider community to have fun on LB. <- this is the bot now. this is only my opinion, and how i feel about it.
You aren't playing Diablo 3 then. That is the experience of D3. While it might suck for you. That isn't an excuse to cheat. You perverse the point of the game. Go play something else, if D3 is that boring to you.
It's called Grifts. And it has been in the game for quite sometime. You literally have what you are asking for... already in the game. That's the reason why Grifts are ranked as well. To show who is the highest in the game. If you find the game boring, then this game is not for you. Why perverse the game with cheating? It makes no sense.
Because you need rift keys for GRs. That's literally a direct requirement. And because Rift Guardian loot is worthless when you only lack 2-3 slots (which are weapons/rings/amulets, which have very low drop chances in random loot tables), so your best bet at upgrading those slots is doing bounties for materials for reforging and upgrading at the cube. You could say that's optional, sure, but it's undoubtedly the best way to gear up right now, nothing else even comes close.
What doesn't make sense? That sometimes people cheat with the purpose of avoiding parts of the game they don't like, so that they can do parts of the game they do like? It's not exactly rocket science. I don't know how else to explain this. I guess I'll just stop trying.
So, you want a Cobb Salad, no Bacon, no Egg, but blue cheese on the side. Then you don't want a Cobb Salad. Go play something else. You aren't playing Diablo 3, if you bot. You are playing an entirely different game.
There are two types of botters: those who do it for competitive reasons (to gain an advantage over other players, to crush the leaderboard/paragon ladder, etc), and those who do it for convenience reasons (the only purpose is to make the game more fun for themselves, they don't care about the leaderboards or paragon race or whatever; people who "lack time" or are just straight up too bored of TX rifts/bounties all fall into this category).
Well they could improve some things in game. QOL changes like: auto pick on mats (with an option to on/off this feature), DB dropping rate and where, remove keys for GR, changes to enchant (like roll only above the number that you have on the item for that stat), reforge on cube to revert EXACTLY the stats you had (ancient items will remain ancient items), improve kadala (weapon types/drop leg rate).
You might disagree with this, but after all the time spent playing, some things in this game become really boring and ridiculous, and I could understand botters that does this for convenience reasons.
I can only agree with this because that is my entire point.
Although I do disagree with your solution. Imho, the core issue itself is that the "farming" content (bounties and neph rifts) don't scale. Once you reach the level of power where you oneshot things on TX with a speed build, that's it, it doesn't improve from here in any direction at all. Right now I am farming with the exact same speed I was farming over 2 months ago, nothing has changed despite me gaining A LOT of power on my characters during this time.
That's what makes it boring. We need higher difficulties or farming content that scales. A more powerful character should be able to farm slightly faster than a less powerful character (it can be due to the more powerful character being able to run a higher difficulty or run faster). I'm sure they could introduce more Torment levels which are scaled appropriately to the the maximum power characters will have in a season (with best gear and, say, plvl 1k+). All of this is possible to calculate before a patch goes live, even the community has the tools required for this (d3planner).
It's called Grifts. And it has been in the game for quite sometime. You literally have what you are asking for... already in the game. That's the reason why Grifts are ranked as well. To show who is the highest in the game. If you find the game boring, then this game is not for you. Why perverse the game with cheating? It makes no sense.
Jokerfiend, please read the replies from bagstone and Thaya (as you did). I do respect you for having a different opinion than me, and most likely a lot of the community agrees with you, but please take in consideration what they have written (in a more formal and better way than what I am capable of).
I say this, not as an insult to you or other, but come on, take it easy. It's just a game. We like it, therfor we cheat (D3Helper guilty here). And even so, I and other "cheaters" have contributed in form of communities and groups, and tried our best to be welcomming to other people. Ultimately it's the community that keeps the game alive, sadly the D3 community is having a hard time these days with too much elitismn and hostility towards people.
Can't we just play and have it fun? Why is it so bad that you have to go to such extremes as making parallells to a WW?
We aren't playing the same game. You are playing an entirely different game, with different circumstances. You don't like people pointing out your lack of morality and feel a personal affront. Then good. I hope it feels bad man. There are many types of games, yet you have to perverse Diablo 3 why?
What is the point of cheating? Because the game give you a lack of motivation as it currently stands? Tough titty. Suck it up and play legitimately. If it's just a game, why cheat?
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Blizzard is trying to remove blatant cheaters and botters to see what their actual playerbase is... I bet this 100% has to do with stat crunching due to the new game being built.
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First off, the topic of the thread is US/EU Ban Wave. There is NOTHING in the title to suggest I should be talking about WHY people cheat. Even if, I have covered all the excuses or, as you want to say, explanations under the 3 bases. Which you have so thoroughly made my point for me.
Let's talk about the bold part, and the reason your logic is flawed. Yes, that is an excuse covered under Time-Sink. You don't have the time, you don't get the goods. It's like anything else in life. You can't go to college, you don't get the degree. You don't work, you don't get money. Trying to justify and "explain" the situation is utterly ridiculous.
What you are doing is called, using Weasel Words. You are attempting to challenge that your "explanations" are somehow different from an excuse. It isn't. You have said so yourself. Here is a prime example:
Now, when you are trying to "explain" why you cheat on the internet. No one cares. We don't care if you are late to work, it can be explanation. It just doesn't matter. You're failing to realize this. Your "explanations" are falling on deaf ears, and unwilling participants.
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Everything you want is the same of what we already have. It will just drive a more monotonousness gameplay, then we already have. Giving an even greater excuse for botting to happen. As streamlining the process prevents engagement. Sometimes the shit is convoluted to keep you engaged in what you are doing and why.
If Blizzard gives you an auto mat pickup, you will complain about not knowing your bag space and demand a counter. Cheaters will never be happy the game will always need improvement, and cheat will use any excuse for any reason to bot, cheat, or mod the game. Either play Diablo 3 as the experience intended or don't bother.
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If you don't like Diablo 3 without cheats, and you cheat, then you aren't playing D3. Simple as that.
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If cheating didn't give an advantage people wouldn't do it. Simple as that. Even if it's entirely for themselves, and only affect themselves. The AH was a prime example of this. People complained the AH didn't allow them to play the game. Now I bet these same people are botting, because they don't want to actually play the game. They want an excuse to whine, and an excuse blame, and an excuse to cheat the system. It's all excuses, which are entirely moot and entirely irrelevant.
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The games flaws has been mentioned. Numerous times, across numerous forums, across numerous mediums. At this point, if you know anything about D3, you know it's flaws. Excuses aren't interesting, excuses are lame.
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Here is the list:
Tedium - Picking up items
Farming - The sink (can't or won't do it)
Malfeasance - Fuck the police
That's it. That's literally the list of the reason why people cheat. There is nothing more too it. If you can think of any reason that isn't covered under these 3 bases. I'd would love to hear it. FFS there is a dude with no arms that doesn't cheat. What is your excuse?
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We aren't playing the same game. You are playing an entirely different game, with different circumstances. You don't like people pointing out your lack of morality and feel a personal affront. Then good. I hope it feels bad man. There are many types of games, yet you have to perverse Diablo 3 why?
What is the point of cheating? Because the game give you a lack of motivation as it currently stands? Tough titty. Suck it up and play legitimately. If it's just a game, why cheat?