I meant skills they actually have in the beta or w/e the latest version is, which is not available to us. Putting cooldowns everywhere is not too difficult, and apparently low level spells are supposed to go obsolete anyway.
I never said you shouldn't be able to spam anything. I clearly addressed that later in my post saying most skills will be able to be spammed... I think that's fairly obvious.
I'm saying you shouldn't be able to spam anything significant (try to spam anything in DII at lower levels).
Using your logic that skills that have a bigger effect should have a huge resource cost...
That's not even my logic, that is game logic as old as games themselves. Why would they not cost more? Why do we have a resource then if they're not going to cost more? How else to compensate?
Then how else do you save up to cast it other than to just sit there and gather?
I just replied to that.
IF YOU SIT YOU SHOULD DIE.
And, again, that occurs with cooldowns as well. Give me an example that doesn't also occur with cooldowns. That's one of the issues - it's redundant. Mana fullfills the task of "cooldown" just fine, except it's a choice. Cooldowns don't leave you a choice.
I think that's a horrible idea. Spells shouldn't be insanely difficult to cast.
There's nothing difficult about that. It is just a tradeoff. You want to cast a spell that kills half the room, spend your mana orb. Nobody is forcing you to cast it.
I don't understand how you don't believe cooldowns can be used well or how they just lead to some repetitive loop of mashing the same 4-5 buttons over and over again.
Because Blizzard's argument was to use cooldowns to prevent ability spamming, which means some abilities are inherently better than others, which leads to a rotation.
The only way to prevent a rotation is to make skills independent of each other in power.
Most of the higher level spells/skills I have seen out of Diablo 3 (again, referencing the Wiki) are spells that should be used in boss fights, when in tough situations, etc. They aren't spells that make much sense when spammed and/or would be overpowered if spammed.
I don't appreciate being told where to use a spell, and neither do min-maxers. It doesn't matter what the spell is designed for, it can be used for anything.
You need to bring up examples of what spells you're talking about. This "spells from the wiki" gives me nothing. All I heard about being spammed was teleport. Again, teleport was not an issue in any game with CC, and doesn't need a cooldown, but teleport is a special case anyway. I've been told that they are doing it to prevent 1-skill spamming, which means they're still using the WoW model.
I have played WoW. Watching Diablo 3 gameplay, even if you envision cooldowns in it, reminds me nothing of World of Warcraft.
I presume the videos were made prior to the whole cooldown idea.
But imagine if every fight went leap-mortal strike-hammer something-insert 2 more spells here-repeat.
Do they seem insanely powerful if they are on a cooldown? I think they would all be pretty ridiculous if you could just spam them... But on a cooldown they look (to me) like they should be used when you are in a tough spot or being overwhelmed.
These spells should not exist. To me, these spells are just bad design.
If you're in a tough spot/overwhelmed, you should die, end of story. I thought this game was supposed to be difficult? I don't recall any games where I had a spell specifically as a cop out, wtf?
Seriously, what are these spells really for? I don't want to have any skills I am not constantly using in every fight excluding single target spells for bosses. Pretty sure these skills are actually first thing you use in battle, so that they get off cooldown faster. If you have a cheap spell that kills half the room you are not going to wait to cast it.
I had a G5. I hated everything about it. The design (Logitech does have horrid design on all their gaming mice), the rubbery coating the used, the middle mouse button (ugh), the other buttons, just, everything lol.
Look at how Diablo II's combat evolve to be much broader than it's predecessor.
*Loads up Tesladin*
click-click-click
It didn't evolve anywhere.
There are some few classes where it actually evolved a bit (assassin), but for most it's still click click click of some degree. The ADVANCEMENT thing is what evolved.
As for the Diablo comment, he is saying it's a fast paced game, which, according even to Blizzard, it is, and 2 minute cooldowns are a bit strange. I recall they wanted to put a cooldown on teleport for some reason, even though the spell never was an issue in other games, even in rather spammable forms. CC all the way.
Do any of those seem like 'bad' or 'poorly designed' skills to you? Do any of them seem like they are ridiculous to have on cooldown? So if they weren't on cooldown you could constantly have three summons jumping around you destroying enemies, your damage/speed/etc would all be upped and the screen would constantly be shaking with everything taking damage.
If people are able to spam ANYTHING wtf do we have mana for? I know in DII you could get infinite mana due to items but this is not DII. Mana/Fury/Spirit/w/e is back to being a resource.
You realize if they costed that much, they would likely either be useless or encourage painfully boring game play since people would just sit there attacking normally to save up enough of their resource to cast one super powerful spell?
You realize that if you sit there attacking normally you should die? That's a game difficulty issue, not the spell system issue. People should be confronted with enemies and have to deal with them, not run around the enemy in circles. Honestly, what you described there occurs with cooldowns, as well, especially if the 2ndary spells are not very effective. See what some guy said about picking one spell, supercharging it, and lowering CD's, and then juts using that spell for everything.
It's not like they are saying all skills are going to have cooldowns. I doubt you are going to have to wait minutes at a time to 'bash' a monster or use 'frenzy'. They have plenty of basic attack skills, buffs, etc. They are looking to add even more diversity to the game by putting some skills in that have long cooldowns and should be used a little more strategically.
Maybe, I'm afraid of WoW influence, where everything is on cooldown and people use rotations.
Cooldowns work sometimes, in some situations, but the argument that Blizzard used, and the way they presented them (1 skill per tier, avoid spamming), worries me, because it sounds they made purposefully overpowered spells and put them on cooldown, which is specifically what I do not want. Not only does that kill thousands of builds and lower gameplay to a rotation, it also means the game is incredibly easy.
In PvE MP you could go for an extreme build like max out higher tier higher CD higher damage skill + increase damage rune + increase damage traits so you can unleash Hell on enemies.
And we come back where we started.
This skill should simply not exist. There should be no bone spear, no whirlwind. If renditions of these skills are to exist, they should be comparable to other skills. I want to spec into Locust Swarm for all I care but it should be viable not a "low level skill you pick to fill your cooldowns", hello, game design? Ever heard of Nox, Blizzard? Or too stuck in the gutter with your WoW where everything is on cooldown and the DPS class is insanely boring to play save for the occasional frost trap?
You guys realize that a "rotation" (the staple of everything in WoW) is the same as spamming the same skill over and over?
What would you suggest then to stop players from choosing all three top level skills?
Don't make them unbalanced? The idea that they had from the start? Even Diablo II had some level 1 skills that sometimes were more effective than level 30 skills (teeth).
One of the major complaints people have had about Diablo 2 was "All I did was spam the same skill over and over. I wish other skills were still viable". Well this makes other skills viable and keeps you using multiple things (and thinking about what to use in the process) as opposed to just mashing the same button over and over.
Or you could just make skills do different things.
Different levels of damage, AoE reach, frequency, length of cast. + defensive spells, + resistances and spells useful for different resistances. On-click spells vs spells you have to aim. Spells that drain tons of mana vs cheap spells. Spells that complement other spells or your character in general.
There are several distinct classes which do not cross each other:
- Damage (short cast spells and long cast spells, + different resource costs); different ranges
- AoE (fire walls, circles, novas, cones, rays)
- summons
- CC (slow, stun, freeze, w/e)
- curse (weaken armor/resistance/etc.)
- improve self (faster attack speed or mana regen or armor or what have you)
- defensive (spell shields, Slow Time)
- positional (bone/zombie wall, push/pull, stack, teleport, leap, random and non-random blink)
- switch (shapeshift)
None of these need cooldowns between each other. And Diablo III ALREADY has a huge array of very different amazing spells:
Witch doctor's sacrifice minion thing synergizes perfectly with his summons.
Wizard has slow time and stuff, tons of AoE.
Barbarian has a range of skills that are on different cast timers seemingly with no cooldowns if you look at the first gameplay video.
Demon Hunter has a lot of AoE and rolls and stuff.
These games have two modes of play - single target (boss) and masses of monsters (normal). The boss fight should utilize the various secondary (non-damage) spells the most, and they should be used because if you don't use them you'll get smashed. Last thing I want to see is spamming 5 spells on whackamole instead of spamming 1 spell, yay cooldowns.
I dislike cooldowns... cop out in game design if you ask me. Then you start playing whackamole.
I want to choose my skills because they're GOOD, not because the best skill has a huge cooldown and I need something to cast while it's down.
It still works, to an extent, but if you played certain champions in LoL, you'd know that some of them the entire kit is: "Press all buttons as fast as possible". I avoid them like fire, too.
I'll probably just have them always showing, depending on how much clutter there is. I am really much more interested in other options, though. Such as, hide garbage (cracked weapons etc.), and I hope they finally color gems a non-standard color.
Depends what you really want from a mouse. If you are a serious/competitive gamer then you need one of the following:
Microsoft Intellimouse 1.1 SE
This is the mouse I had for years... it_won't_die (it will get dirty constantly, though).
I dunno why people would use it for FPS, though. Granted, I don't play FPS much, mostly RPG's and RTS/MOBAs. But in an FPS I'd prefer high sensitivity, which is not something MS is good at, these are for-home mice, after all. +, weak in the ergonomics department. I do like the side buttons, though, but I had trouble with systems recognizing them.
MS mice are very durable. MS is probably the best choice if you're looking specifically for something that will last long. My mouse lasted about 6-7 years and I played Diablo quite a lot. Same for my whole family. We used MS mice for a very long time.
I got the Mionix 3200 for the high DPI and ergonomics, though. I have no idea how durable these are, though. Steelseries should be fine as well.
I do know that Razer is a good example of what's NOT durable. Constant complaints about broken/set in buttons...
@akainu
The game saves all progress. It just respawns the monstere every time you die, but it doesn't discard your souls (you can get them back), and it saves all the shortcuts you have opened (like, opening a gate).
While I'm here I'd like to mention that the hardest way to play the games is the way of the rogue. You need to be perfect at dodging and parrying in order for this class to work.
I'm still figuring out the whole parry-riposte thing myself.
Oh ya, and just so you know, someone beat the game in less than an hour:
I can definitely see how that's possible. If you play it long enough, you'll be able to run through it very fast, although he probably used exploits as well.
About the red eyed knights... to kill them you'll have to move on to other stages and become powerful enough, then come back and take out the red eyed knights if you want
Well, it seems that he's still killable at my level. I do damage to him, so as long as I can dodge all his stuff well I can kill him.
I know you can abuse the bad AI but I wanted to kill him properly.
To give you an idea, the Boletarian Palace World is the last world I finished (and it's the one you start in), I finished all others first before beating the final two stages of the palace.
Huh? All the other archstones/worlds are closed for me, I thought Boletarian was the entry world. I figured I have to kill the boss here to unlock the other worlds.
Bows are useful for later stages (I use the term 'later' loosely, you can do the worlds in whatever order you want), although you are not forced to ever use one. Some ranged attack, be it a bow or a spell, will make your life easier in a lot of stages. Later on you'll find these huge flying stingrays that you can't kill with melee attacks
About the dragons: there are two dragons in the Boletarian Palace, and you can kill them both. Yes, even with arrows. It might take you 30 minutes of waiting and aiming, but you can do it and it will net you tons of souls for a low level character. I assume it was the red one, correct? Was it in the bridge right before the lever, or the one where you go inside a tunnel with wolves?
Yeah, it was the red one on the bridge (he doesn't show up anymore). Haven't seen any tunnel with wolves yet. I did find 2 dragons resting on hills guarding goodies. Tried to get the goodies but all I got is some random stuff + this stupid shield that seems like it should block flame but I'm not sure... and I don't think I can get to the dragons, they're too high up. But if I used a bow there, it would be rather easy to kill them. They just sit there, and the fire is easily dodgeable.
How many arrows does a dragon require? I've only got 70.
I'm also not sure what use are the soul points to me now, I have nothing to spend them on.
Btw, is there any easy way to use firebombs? Going into the inventory, selecting them, and going "Use Item" just seems too slow to be viable.
You don't need a legal game to play with friends, you only need Hamachi - that's what I'm talking about. Currently, with old games, it only makes sense to play with friends or on private servers like PGT, because all other places, hacks everywhere. Even StarCraft! WCII and WoW work, but I play neither, so I can only wait for Diablo III and StarCraft II to buy, so far, no multiplayer for me, unless I get a friend who plays Diablo II/StarCraft...
The bad thing about Blizzard is their support of old games. I bought Diablo 1, could have as well downloaded it - after I went to the multiplyer, people in there were copying items, giving themselves 99999 health, casting apocalypse on level 1, etc... impossible to play properly.
Well, I think Blizzard won't let us down. Add a few classes, redo the old ones, change damage calibrations, add something new in, Blizzard always had wonderful ideas. Of that, I do not worry.
1
I'm saying you shouldn't be able to spam anything significant (try to spam anything in DII at lower levels).
Yes, there should be no best skill. What you're describing occurs with cooldowns as well. In MOBA's, it even has a name. It's called the Ultimate.
That's not even my logic, that is game logic as old as games themselves. Why would they not cost more? Why do we have a resource then if they're not going to cost more? How else to compensate?
I just replied to that.
IF YOU SIT YOU SHOULD DIE.
And, again, that occurs with cooldowns as well. Give me an example that doesn't also occur with cooldowns. That's one of the issues - it's redundant. Mana fullfills the task of "cooldown" just fine, except it's a choice. Cooldowns don't leave you a choice.
There's nothing difficult about that. It is just a tradeoff. You want to cast a spell that kills half the room, spend your mana orb. Nobody is forcing you to cast it.
Because Blizzard's argument was to use cooldowns to prevent ability spamming, which means some abilities are inherently better than others, which leads to a rotation.
The only way to prevent a rotation is to make skills independent of each other in power.
I don't appreciate being told where to use a spell, and neither do min-maxers. It doesn't matter what the spell is designed for, it can be used for anything.
You need to bring up examples of what spells you're talking about. This "spells from the wiki" gives me nothing. All I heard about being spammed was teleport. Again, teleport was not an issue in any game with CC, and doesn't need a cooldown, but teleport is a special case anyway. I've been told that they are doing it to prevent 1-skill spamming, which means they're still using the WoW model.
Probably because I didn't say that.
I presume the videos were made prior to the whole cooldown idea.
But imagine if every fight went leap-mortal strike-hammer something-insert 2 more spells here-repeat.
These spells should not exist. To me, these spells are just bad design.
If you're in a tough spot/overwhelmed, you should die, end of story. I thought this game was supposed to be difficult? I don't recall any games where I had a spell specifically as a cop out, wtf?
Seriously, what are these spells really for? I don't want to have any skills I am not constantly using in every fight excluding single target spells for bosses. Pretty sure these skills are actually first thing you use in battle, so that they get off cooldown faster. If you have a cheap spell that kills half the room you are not going to wait to cast it.
0
0
click-click-click
It didn't evolve anywhere.
There are some few classes where it actually evolved a bit (assassin), but for most it's still click click click of some degree. The ADVANCEMENT thing is what evolved.
As for the Diablo comment, he is saying it's a fast paced game, which, according even to Blizzard, it is, and 2 minute cooldowns are a bit strange. I recall they wanted to put a cooldown on teleport for some reason, even though the spell never was an issue in other games, even in rather spammable forms. CC all the way.
0
I think you're just using ad hominem because you want to do the cool thing, the cool thing being, "I agree with Blizzard".
0
You realize that if you sit there attacking normally you should die? That's a game difficulty issue, not the spell system issue. People should be confronted with enemies and have to deal with them, not run around the enemy in circles. Honestly, what you described there occurs with cooldowns, as well, especially if the 2ndary spells are not very effective. See what some guy said about picking one spell, supercharging it, and lowering CD's, and then juts using that spell for everything.
Maybe, I'm afraid of WoW influence, where everything is on cooldown and people use rotations.
Cooldowns work sometimes, in some situations, but the argument that Blizzard used, and the way they presented them (1 skill per tier, avoid spamming), worries me, because it sounds they made purposefully overpowered spells and put them on cooldown, which is specifically what I do not want. Not only does that kill thousands of builds and lower gameplay to a rotation, it also means the game is incredibly easy.
0
This skill should simply not exist. There should be no bone spear, no whirlwind. If renditions of these skills are to exist, they should be comparable to other skills. I want to spec into Locust Swarm for all I care but it should be viable not a "low level skill you pick to fill your cooldowns", hello, game design? Ever heard of Nox, Blizzard? Or too stuck in the gutter with your WoW where everything is on cooldown and the DPS class is insanely boring to play save for the occasional frost trap?
You guys realize that a "rotation" (the staple of everything in WoW) is the same as spamming the same skill over and over?
0
Different levels of damage, AoE reach, frequency, length of cast. + defensive spells, + resistances and spells useful for different resistances. On-click spells vs spells you have to aim. Spells that drain tons of mana vs cheap spells. Spells that complement other spells or your character in general.
There are several distinct classes which do not cross each other:
- Damage (short cast spells and long cast spells, + different resource costs); different ranges
- AoE (fire walls, circles, novas, cones, rays)
- summons
- CC (slow, stun, freeze, w/e)
- curse (weaken armor/resistance/etc.)
- improve self (faster attack speed or mana regen or armor or what have you)
- defensive (spell shields, Slow Time)
- positional (bone/zombie wall, push/pull, stack, teleport, leap, random and non-random blink)
- switch (shapeshift)
None of these need cooldowns between each other. And Diablo III ALREADY has a huge array of very different amazing spells:
Witch doctor's sacrifice minion thing synergizes perfectly with his summons.
Wizard has slow time and stuff, tons of AoE.
Barbarian has a range of skills that are on different cast timers seemingly with no cooldowns if you look at the first gameplay video.
Demon Hunter has a lot of AoE and rolls and stuff.
These games have two modes of play - single target (boss) and masses of monsters (normal). The boss fight should utilize the various secondary (non-damage) spells the most, and they should be used because if you don't use them you'll get smashed. Last thing I want to see is spamming 5 spells on whackamole instead of spamming 1 spell, yay cooldowns.
0
I want to choose my skills because they're GOOD, not because the best skill has a huge cooldown and I need something to cast while it's down.
It still works, to an extent, but if you played certain champions in LoL, you'd know that some of them the entire kit is: "Press all buttons as fast as possible". I avoid them like fire, too.
0
0
I dunno why people would use it for FPS, though. Granted, I don't play FPS much, mostly RPG's and RTS/MOBAs. But in an FPS I'd prefer high sensitivity, which is not something MS is good at, these are for-home mice, after all. +, weak in the ergonomics department. I do like the side buttons, though, but I had trouble with systems recognizing them.
I'll probably never figure out why people like the piece of crap that is Logitech. Had a G5 once, went back to my MS instantly.
0
I got the Mionix 3200 for the high DPI and ergonomics, though. I have no idea how durable these are, though. Steelseries should be fine as well.
I do know that Razer is a good example of what's NOT durable. Constant complaints about broken/set in buttons...
0
Right now, I'm very careful with the games I buy, so most of them are kept for replayability.
0
I've LOST games, or left them behind, but that's another story.
0
The game saves all progress. It just respawns the monstere every time you die, but it doesn't discard your souls (you can get them back), and it saves all the shortcuts you have opened (like, opening a gate).
I'm still figuring out the whole parry-riposte thing myself.
I can definitely see how that's possible. If you play it long enough, you'll be able to run through it very fast, although he probably used exploits as well.
I've been there. Their information is a bit lacking, though, IMO.
Um, the tutorial boss.
Well, it seems that he's still killable at my level. I do damage to him, so as long as I can dodge all his stuff well I can kill him.
I know you can abuse the bad AI but I wanted to kill him properly.
Huh? All the other archstones/worlds are closed for me, I thought Boletarian was the entry world. I figured I have to kill the boss here to unlock the other worlds.
OK, good to know.
Yeah, it was the red one on the bridge (he doesn't show up anymore). Haven't seen any tunnel with wolves yet. I did find 2 dragons resting on hills guarding goodies. Tried to get the goodies but all I got is some random stuff + this stupid shield that seems like it should block flame but I'm not sure... and I don't think I can get to the dragons, they're too high up. But if I used a bow there, it would be rather easy to kill them. They just sit there, and the fire is easily dodgeable.
How many arrows does a dragon require? I've only got 70.
I'm also not sure what use are the soul points to me now, I have nothing to spend them on.
Btw, is there any easy way to use firebombs? Going into the inventory, selecting them, and going "Use Item" just seems too slow to be viable.
0
By shut down I mean they're all going to move to a different country domain.