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Quote from tanis0

It's true that they all do something for every class, but out-of-class stats also aren't anything like a priority. From here, intelligence affixes seem to max out at 150 or 15 resist all. However, resist all affixes seem to max out at 80. So while I would rather have int than nothing as a Barbarian, I'd still prefer it had some other affix (strength, armor, resist all, vitality, extra health from globes, sockets, x on hit, faster attack speed, extra min/max damage, etc.) which would be more useful to me.

Of course your main stat is better than a different class' main stat, and thank you for reinforcing that Intelligence is in fact useful to a Barbarian. There's always something more preferable, but my point is to the arguments that "OMG MY WIZ GOT A STR ITEM HOW UTTERLY USELSS" because I honestly think many people do not realize that every stat actually benefits every character in some way. You've obviously done some reading. *claps!*

One point I forgot to also include is that you can go into the game options and enable "Advanced Tooltips" in the Gameplay section. That way when you mouse over one of your stats in your character screen, you can see EXACTLY how much your base stats are affecting your other stats.

I'm posting this in General Discussion because the majority of the discussions currently in General Discussion are criticizing Diablo 3 in some way (which is fine - good or bad - whatever), but many of the points brought up point to stats only being useful for this or that class.

The base stats in Diablo 3 benefit all 5 classes in some way. Please refer to the "Fundamentals" section of the Game Guide over at the official Diablo 3 site. And I quote:

• Strength: The primary attribute for Barbarians. Strength increases Barbarian damage, and increases Armor for all classes.
• Dexterity: The primary attribute for Demon Hunters and Monks. Dexterity increases Demon Hunter and Monk damage, and increases Dodge Chance for all classes.
• Intelligence: The primary attribute for Witch Doctors and Wizards. Intelligence increases Witch Doctor and Wizard damage, and increases resistances for all classes.

All stats help everyone to some degree, so hopefully this might help some Barbs not be so disappointed when they get an item with Int on it, or if a Wizard gets something with Strength on it (Strength boosts Armor, Armor reduces the amount of damage taken from enemy attacks, this helps Wizard survive just even that little bit more).

http://us.battle.net...tals#attributes

Happy hunting!

Quote from Lunasea

*deleted to avoid ANOTHER wall of text*

First off Lunasea, THANK YOU for a well stated post. It really is quite refreshing. And though I have some minor disagreement, I still welcome those points as well because you are clear and realistic about it. Thank you. Everyone else should +1 your post.

One thing I would like to touch on is your remarks about base stats. The main thing I would like to suggest is you go into options and turn on "Advanced Tooltips", and then mouse over your stats. You will see that stats give you more than you think especially your point about Intelligence. Intelligence boosts all resistances for all classes. So it's useful for 5 classes, not 2.

Also, I think the gold cost for crafting is valid. However, it is not clear to me that it is attractive enough to be all that significant of a gold sink for the sake of the economy. I feel like they dialed it back too much in Beta patch 16. I would agree in Beta patch 15 there was way too much emphasis on crafting, but they over-corrected it in my mind.

And I too miss runewords. That was probably my favorite gear to farm. But for me, there's a new gear style to Diablo 3 and I'm excited to obtain it. I can't guarantee I will like it as much as runewords or that I will like it at all which is why I must get there (end-game legendaries) and see for myself.

Thanks again for breathing some life back into this discussion. Cheers!

Quote from Bruns1

One thing that bothers me is all of the people who enjoy the game say give it time, they'll fix it etc. Why is that the accepted things? Why can't it be good from the start? Why did tons of people have to post about legendaries being worse than blues for it to get looked at? Bliz couldn't look up and see the stats on their items to tell that?

Most of us (obviously myself and clearly you) have no idea what goes into producing a AAA world-class PC game title like this. The stats for Legendaries are in fact an issue (Blizzard has surrendered this already), but responding to a thread titled "Diablo 3 will not last as long as Diablo 2" with this point 10 days after launch is more sensationalism than anything. And it would be really great if you could point out exactly how in Blizzard's operations where they went wrong in "allowing this to slip through", so to speak. That would be much more helpful instead of:

Quote from Bruns1

Why can't it be good from the start?

Because at that rate, why can't everything be good from the start? No PC title release is perfect, so you might want to take a more realistic approach in your discussion tactics instead of overstating and sensationalizing the situation.

Quote from Bruns1

It just seems that Bliz either got lazy or had way too much on their plate to hit release date. Inferno difficulty was practically untested just judging by what was seen.

It was tested. They just never beat it. And then they doubled the difficulty. I recommend you read more on Blizzard's responses. diablofans.com is a great resource for tracking "Blue" posts.

Quote from Bruns1

It has yet to be addressed why monks and barbs have to be tanks to do well in groups.

I run in a group of 4 as a DH with a WD, Monk and Barb. NONE of them are 'tanks'. Monk and Barb are melee - yes, but does that automatically mean they are tanks?

Quote from Bruns1

It also hasn't been touched as to why grouping is many many many times worse than solo/duo for anything but act bosses.

I'm finding being grouped is many times more advantageous and actually goes faster than solo/duo ESPECIALLY farming elites. Where do you get this? Perhaps the people in your groups were all trying to do their own thing instead of focusing down targets together.

Quote from Bruns1

Bliz also didn't seem to learn much from D2. It is the same company, probably with a lot of the same people who worked on D2.

And here is where we genuinely see you don't really know many facts and just look more like a band-wagoner than anything else. VERY FEW people from Blizzard North were even offered positions at Blizzard HQ when they shut down Blizzard North. Even then, those few were put on other projects - NOT anything Diablo.

Quote from Bruns1

Why is it too much to ask to get the good parts of that game? That would be the first thing I'd do when making a squeal/xpac, what made the previous good enough to warrant a new one.

First (and again), do you have a CLUE what goes into producing a title of this magnitude? And you act like NOTHING that made D2 fun is in D3. I question your claims that you even played Diablo 2 as long as you seem to imply with your lengthy criticism of D3 being so "wrong" and D2 being so "right", so to speak. I clarify this point in the next point.

Quote from Bruns1

I do agree with a lot of the opposition that D2 at release was a fraction of what it is now. Lots of the fun things that are in game today weren't around back then. That being said, why does it have to start over with D3? Why can't it just bring along the good parts? The jump from D1 to D2 is a good example. They dropped the obvious easy ability to dupe, they dropped the skill books, they added more classes, new spells/abilities, etc. They didn't scrap the whole project and start over. Fireball was a good spell in D1, so why not take it to D2! It was still a good spell in D2, but lets drop it for D3.

You're not making your point very clear. One minute you're criticizing them for "starting over" with D3, but then speaking as if they didn't do exactly that with Diablo 2. They didn't add more classes to D2, they made 5 completely new ones. In fact, Diablo 3 is the first time they didn't start completely over with all classes. There's a Barbarian in D2 AND D3. Remember? You DID play Diablo 2, didn't you?

Quote from Bruns1

Stats are another customization that were stripped down in this game as well.

I invite you to enable 'Advanced Tooltips' in the game options and mouse over the main stats. Then click the details button and see just how many different stats are accounted for in D3 that you can actually see what they are now. Did you know Intelligence increases all resistances ON ALL CLASSES? Also, there is no point in having to manually allocate points in your base stats in D2. It's the same formula. Put your points into Str/Dex to wear your gear, dump the rest to Vit. It's brainless and quite a waste of time, actually. This is what gems are for AND why I would argue that gems are WAY more useful in D3 than in D2 MAYBE with the exception of the magic find gem.

Quote from Bruns1

Both games have about the same number of skills. D2 had more actual skills, but the rune system of D3 brings it count up a bit.

You are so far off with this it's not even funny. With the rune system and all of the passive skill choices, there's actually about 130+ skills per class. Diablo 2 DOES NOT EVEN COMPARE. Just... wow...

Quote from Bruns1

Talking strictly late game, early inferno(act 1/2) vs hell farming(no ubers), how many options are there for D3 skills? Every Wiz I've seen has 3 of the exact same skills/runes. Majority of them have the exact 6. Pop over to D2, jump in a Baal farming game, more likely than not with at least 5-6 sorcs. Of said sorcs, what were the odds of finding all the exact same build, or a close build at all? Meteor/orb, blizzard, lightning, enchant, all very popular builds are played at a higher level. There are some less common builds you could have seen be it aura/zeal/etc but in the end there were a lot more different ones going on. Sure, you could get a game with all Bliz sorcs, but it would be rare to do so. Sorcs and Wiz are probably the closest possibility since they mirror each other so well.

You're trying to illustrate build diversity of Sorcs in D2 by throwing in some Paladin builds? And even if you're referring to getting non-sorc skills through runewords, those builds were not PvE viable in the same way you're saying Wiz's should be with end-game D3. Your comparison is far from fair.

Quote from Bruns1

Where all of the D2 sorc builds good? Not at all. Where they all able to play at late game? God yes.

Another gross overstatement. I'm sensing a trend here. Maybe 4 sorc builds were viable in the greatest percentage of end-game D2. Blizz, Orb/Meteor, Fireball/Meteor, and Lightning had some slight variance to them depending on which order you chose to max your synergies, but hardly a grand differentiation.

Quote from Bruns1

Yes, D3 has more options of skills, but how many of those options are actually used or useful in the least?

OK, now that's an overstatement and understatement all in the same sentence. D3 has a ridiculously greater number of skill choices, and EVERY BASE SKILL has viability in end-game. It depends on which runes you select and what other complimenting skills you choose to go with them. Basically, it depends on your build.

Quote from Bruns1

I'm not going to touch on the lacking of stat customization because I can only hope everyone sees that we can't change them and knows that means a lack of customization.

No, it doesn't. You can stack gems like nobody's business. You can gem a ring in D3 for crying out loud! Add more stats that way! And don't forget that stats do more in D3 than D2. GO READ.

Quote from Bruns1

I know its a long rant, and I'm too tired to make a tl;dr. I'll keep an eye on the thread to give some responses to feedback.

Feedback posted.

Quote from burninfate

Quote from UberN00b

Insulting Trash

I did not care to read past the first insult, you are welcome to your opinion, but I will not read it from a person that acts like that. Discussions can be held while still acting mature and respecting other people, without insults, please remember that.

What insult? I'm more inclined to believe that you can't handle honest feedback about your openly sharing your opinion unless said feedback aligns with yours which actually makes you closed to honest discussion.

Oh wait, was that another insult?

*edit* I love how people come in talking about how they are so mature and open to discussing their honest opinion, but then when you actually get down to the details of the thread they were so proud of creating, they dismiss a quite lengthy and sincere response in the name of being mature. SMH...

As you're entitled to your opinion, I feel it my duty to point out the flaws in your logic.

Quote from burninfate

-This game is linear, directed by quest, meaning each act is separate and the user cannot explore everything at will, this will lead to the game getting old faster because you HAVE to do things in order.

Once you've finished a difficulty, you're welcome to explore anywhere you like via selecting the act from the Quest Menu. If you're disagreeable because you can't do the Skeleton King quest, then skip to the Iskatu quest without first exiting the game and selecting a different quest, I fail to see how changing quests is any different than changing waypoints in Diablo 2. You still have to go to the act you want to farm.

Quote from burninfate

-There is nothing to do at 60 but get more gear for no purpose, D2 had ubrs, this has Inferno mode? which is the same game already played 3 times just "harder".

D2's ubers didn't come until Patch 1.12. Do you know when D2 launched and when 1.12 was released? YEARS AND YEARS APART! 90% of the D2 population was gone by the time 1.12 was released. Are you saying that Diablo 3 should already have a decade worth of patching and content updates when it first launches? You make no sense...

Quote from burninfate

-Gems are boring and have small use, Back in d2 runes and runewords were farmed, adding months to the game.

Why are gems boring? You do realize that stats increase more than 1 thing, right? Like Intelligence isn't just for casters. It increases all characters' resistances. If you need resists, stack Int! Your stats do several things and therefore gems have plenty of depth. One small thing I would agree with is I wish is that I could gem for Magic Find in more than just my helm, but there's other ways to improve MF. In any case, this point of yours doesn't really hold up either, sorry.

How is making runewords any better than crafting with the Blacksmith? You still have the opportunity to keep rolling crafts until you get high stats just like runewords. Also, the Legendary crafts seem really damn rare just like high runes were, so I'm really not seeing wtf it is you're saying here...

Quote from burninfate

-People hit level cap in under a day, it took weeks to hit level 99 in d2.

Since when did people care about level cap in D2? And level cap in D2 didn't really make a dam bit of difference. Also, you could level 1-80+ in a matter of a couple hours, so the fact it takes an entire day to hit 60 in D3 is an improvement as far as "leveling too fast" goes. Your logic has failed again.

Quote from burninfate

-Gear is horrid, some piece you find in normal can last you until 60 and sometimes even for a while there. There is no Gap between 20's and 50's. That difference should be pretty big.

This is highly exaggerated and overstated. If you can't provide specific examples, this is a waste of cyberspace. This isn't even flawed logic. It's vague postulating at best...

Quote from burninfate

- Yellow, Blues, Legendary, they seem to be very similar with no Huge difference in quality.

Blizz has already confessed they are planning to update the itemization. Again, since when has any Diablo release been perfect with itemization? pfft...

Quote from burninfate

-The auction house will greatly reduce the grind, not to mention it has horrible ui

The UI sucks. But since when has item trading been a bad thing in Diablo? Now we have a much more robust way to do so without spamming in channels and making trade games hoping someone sees it while we have it up to come trade with us. That is the dark ages of item trading unless you want to use a 3rd party site like D2JSP. Welcome to the 21st century...

Quote from burninfate

-Bots are already spamming, we have this tiny chat square that holds 8 lines of text and cannot be customized. (minor issue but annoying)

What game doesn't have spamming attempts somewhere? And are you implying Blizzard will do nothing about this? And instead of the chat window, would you prefer to go back to having your messages cover your entire screen while you're trying to play? Again, welcome to 2012!

Quote from burninfate

-D3/sc2 are anti-social. You cannot just go into a chat room and talk to people. It is all focused on gameplay and will burn people out quickly

There are chat channels available to do so. I suggest you re-examine the menu screen...

Quote from burninfate

Do not get me wrong I was waiting for this game for years, it just seems that the "New" games, d3 and scII do not live up to their previous counterparts. I believe they should have waited before releasing this game.

There are some inconsistencies with the social system. For example, I don't see where I can update my battle.net status on my friends list like it is in WoW. Is this coming later, or are they removing status? I don't know.

In any case, thanks for sharing your "worthwhile" opinions. I genuinely hope you find gaming bliss once again...

How the hell is Diablo 2 so much more interesting with end game? Aside from Dclone and Uber Tristram, there isn't a difference. Oh wait, they gave monsters immunities and penalized your resistances. Everyone still had to stack Vitality and resists to survive the hits and dump points into their main nuke in order to avoid being one-shotted.

I really have to laugh in yours and everyone else's faces that come in here to try and make a point to complain about how Diablo 3's end-game sucks and do so by trying to compare it to Diablo 2 which was FAR less tactical. No game will ever be perfect, yes there are some itemization and balance issues at the moment, BUT COME THE FUCK ON ALREADY. How fucking "interesting" is a Whack-A-Mole style control and combat system going to get? If you want complexity and depth, you're going to have to find a different game. Diablo simply never has and never will be in-depth and complex to any major degree. It just isn't.

Good riddance...

Y U NO PATIENT WITH NEW GAME OMG!! >.<

Responding to the topic title, I have found 1 Legendary, and I've already replaced and salvaged it. I have approximately 120hours grand total gameplay in since launch.

Quote from Lunasea

Well he can run in Windowed mode but if he's taking screenshots all he'd have to do is go open the screenshot and use the snip tool there.. with the way that tool works, it's probably faster to do that than to crop it and save it manually in paint..

In windowed mode, he wouldn't even have to snip a screenshot. Just snip it directly out of the game and paste onto the canvas in Paint.

Quote from thatoneman

i checked the AH for highest dps weapons at lvl 60 that are x-bows

the whole first two pages were all blues....not legendaries or even rares....magics

With a horrible drop rate, we're in week 2 of launch, I'm really not surprised. I think most of the best Legendaries out there are being used by the players that found them. I know if I found a high Legendary crossbow, I would use it. And if I found another better one after that, I would check with all my friends to see if they need one.

I'm not dismissing the claim that Legendary drops need improvement. I'm just saying your observation doesn't substantially mean what you say it does.

I also agree that if the drop rate of Legendary items is going to be practically zero (which is fine) then it needs to be superior to yellows and blues. But if it's going to be so commonplace for blues and yellows to exceed Legendary stats, then the drop rate needs to be addressed. I've logged over 120 hours and have found 1 Legendary. It was useable, but then I found a Yellow a few hours later that was better and replaced it. The Legendary got salvaged and I haven't seen one since. :|

*edit* Lightning struck my brain. I'm also guessing high level Legendaries are being held back until the RMAH. Why the hell would you post BiS Legendary gear in the AH (even for 10 million gold) when you can probably get... I dunno, $85 for a BiS bow in the RMAH?

Quote from Lunasea

Just use paint, or if you're using Windows 7, use the snipping tool.. it's amazing.

+ run in windowed mode?

Quote from Fitsu

It's not the farm or anything like that I dislike, it's the lack of choice. Inferno is just "you must have gear with these stats to progress" and that sort of constraint makes 99% of the loot I find that should be good, utter rubbish.

What is an example of loot "that should be good"? I've had countless 6 and 7 stat yellows drop that only had 2 or 3 stats that I could actually benefit from. My 2c: Gold find is useless, health globe radius is useless when my resists are all practically 0, +health from globes is also useless when my resists are all practically 0, but great there's Vit, Str. and Int. on there. Whether a barb or a wiz uses that item, that's 1 main stat that is a waste. So I salvage or vendor it depending on if I'm low on gold or mats and move on. This is a total guess, but I don't think Blizzard intended for every item that drops to be amazing...

Farm Act4 nightmare. Specifically, the first 2 mini bosses (Aspect of Terror and the other random one). They're the bosses that spawn when you talk to Leah and then the next NPC in the next room. The reason you want to farm them is because they are dropping Hell items. Level 59 hell items at that! Also, the xp is pretty good. I actually recommend farming from the end of act3 all the way to that second mini boss that spawns from the second NPC (sometimes it's Maghda, sometimes it's Zoltun Kulle, sometimes it's Haedrig's wife, etc). Because it's nightmare, your damage should be fine. I was able to do Act1 Hell progression with 3k damage so your 2300 should be ok.

*edit* Just to clarify the "Hell items" dropping. I can't recall for sure if they are specifically "Hell items", but their level range is consitently 54-59 on my runs.

*edit 2* Also to clarify why farming end of Act 3. There's a bunch of quests you do there that are all cutscense and dialogue and such that give a good bit of xp. Watch this video:

Quote from chaoslux

Being 60 only reinforce what i thought:
Nephalem Valor needs to be much lower. It wouldve been amazed to be able to gear up in NM for Hell if i had that buff.

You can. I don't remember exactly which quest, but I think it's end of act 3 that you start on. Someone made a video tutorial on how to get a ton of xp this way. Anyway, by the time you progress to Iskatu, you just racked up a TON of xp for just doing dialogue quest turn-ins. This xp gain is high enough you can get to level 60 in nightmare efficiently. Also, the second quest in act4, you fight the Aspect of Terror and another random boss. Each of these bosses drop level 59 gear! It's higher level gear than Act1 hell! So basically doing end of Act 3 through the first 2 bosses of the second quest of Act 4 should yield a pile of gear and xp. This will also get you geared up for Hell mode.

I fear the NV buff is going to get hosed/nerfed in some way. When I do SK runs with 5 stacks, he drops 2-3 yellow and 5-6 blues. That's freakin crazy! I think the SK quest is a good run because there's damn near always enough champions to get you to 5 stacks by the time you get to him. It's also a pretty fast run. I say, ABUSE IT WHILE YOU GOT IT! Maybe I've been playing Blizzard games too long, but it seems like they never let good things stay around for long. Stuff always gets nerfed into oblivion and RUINS EVERYTHING OMG! lol