I made some updates to the spreadsheet for the latest patch and added a first attempt at firebird dot calculation. It's mostly meant for a rough comparison between gear sets as the actual value should be higher in game due to legendary gems and strongarm bracers. Please let me know if there are any errors.
This is the DPS and EHPspreadsheet I've been working on. It was made with a wizard in mind but so far should work for any class that is not dual wielding, though it currently does not support any class specific buffs or passives besides some of the wizard ones. If you're having any issues with the spreadsheet please read the "Notes" tab to make sure you're entering the correct information. WEAPON +DAMAGE% now has a box in the spreadsheet, so dps values should be accurate.
In case there's any confusion, your Int, Vit, Str,DPS, HP, CC, CD, APS should exactly match the in game value (APS rounds to 2 decimals though). Your armor and lowest resist should match the in game values exactly, though they might differ by 1 due to rounding on the char sheet.
Features:
The spreadsheet features the ability to input your total stats and weapon stats to compute your dps and EHP. There's also a separate tab where you can compare different gear sets. The DPS value should match your in game Damage Number, provided all applicable stats are entered correctly. Additionally the spreadsheet computes relative dps gains for a range of dps stats and also reports those values in terms of comperable values of your primary stat, i.e., how many Intellect is 1%IAS worth, etc.
Here are some more specific features:
1) Calculates unbuffed dps, char sheet buffed dps, and effective char sheet dps. Char sheet buffed dps is what you will see in game based on all your skills. The effective char sheet dps is what your buffed char sheet dps would be if it included all the bonuses for the skill you use (such as +disintegrate%) and elemental damage type (like +arcane damage%).
2) Paragon point table where you can input how many points you spent on each stat. The table also shows you the relative gain of a paragon point for each stat to your effective char sheet dps and your EHP.
3) A second sheet allows you to compare two gear sets and displays the difference in EHP and DPS.
4) Relative dps and EHP gains for each stat are shown (int, vit, crit%, etc.).
5) A comparison of Marquise Ruby vs Emerald is shown for easy reference, or the gear comparison can be used to compare the different gems at higher levels. For most people Emerald will be much better now that weapon damage% has been drastically cut on new drops (used to go up to 50%, now it's like 10%, if that).
Limitations and Workarounds
Does not compute toughness stat, and toughness is not the same as EHP. I have no plans to implement functionality to compute toughness.
The spreadsheet does not work well with weapons that have a base attack speed of 1.15 APS, or any other base APS not divisible by 0.1. The workaround currently is to set the 1.15 APS weapon to 1.15 APS in the spreadsheet, and put 15% IAS on the weapon IAS cell in column C. That tricks the spreadsheet into computing the correct IAS. If your weapon does have IAS, I'm still working on a solution.
If you have any issues downloading or using the spreadsheet, feel free to post here or send me a PM after you've read the Help tab.
Currently planned additions: update to include other buffs like cold blooded and audacity/
EDIT:
3-15-14 Updated based on 2.0 changes
3-21-14 Updated formulas to account for AR from sockets
3-25-14 Updated Crit Damage to display the amount including paragon levels.
3-28-14
Updated Mob level to 73 for Armor and resist mitigation and EHP calcs
Updated Str, vit, and Int for a lvl 70 character
Added Unwavering Will to buffs list
Updated Enchantress EHP calculation to include armor from paragon points
Updated HP calculation based on lvl 70 character
3-29-14 Corrected EHP calculation with Unwavering Will
3-30-14 Corrected Paragon armor contribution on Full Gear Comparison tab
Added percent differences for DPS and EHP values between Equipped Items tab and Full Gear Comparison tab
3-31-14 Updated Life per Second from paragon levels to the correct amount for level 70 (165.1)
4-13-14 Updated Elite damage bonus calculation to be consistent with changes in game. It now is just an additve modifier.
Changed fill for cells C12 and C13 since they should remain blank
5-9-14 Corrected the Life% display on Equipped Items and Full Gear Comparison tabs to correctly include the amount from paragon points
5-22-14 Updated APS calculation to account for change in Enchantress contribution. Recent patch changed it from +0.03 APS to +3% IAS.
5-30-14 Fix a bug with Primary relative dps gain calculation on 'Equipped Items' tab that would give incorrect values when the enchantress was indicated as being used
5-31-14 fixed weapon damage% affix on weapons to work correctly with elemental damage, per patch 2.0.5 changes
Quote from Cularic I'm just conjecturing here, but I don't think that IAS will ever be a DPS loss over no IAS. It may not be a huge gain if you run out of arcane power, and you may be able to potentially get more damage with some other magical property instead of IAS in certain cases, but IAS itself won't hurt your DPS.
Let me throw out some math to show you how IAS can be a dps loss.
Case 1: Base Case
APS = 1, AP spent per second = 18, max AP = 80, AP regen = 10, eDPS = 100k, mob hp = 1000k.
Net AP usage= 8 AP per second, Channel time = 10s.
Mob dies in 10s on average.
Case 2: Double APS, rest of stats same
APS = 2, AP spent per second = 36, max AP = 80, AP regen = 10, eDPS = 200k, mob hp = 1000k.
Net AP usage=26 AP per second, Channel time = 3.08s.
Damage done before out of AP = 2*308k = 615.4k.
eDPS for remainder of fight, assuming no wand or sig spell = 200k*(10/36) = 55.56k
Time required to finish mob = (1000k-2*308k)/(55.56k) = 6.91s
Mob dies in 3.08+9.91 = 9.99s on average.
So you doubled your APS with IAS and you kill the mob in about the same time. If instead most of that were CC/CD/Ave dmg/Int in some combo, you'd definitely kill the mob faster. That means you lose edps by using the IAS over the other options in this example.
Granted, that's a very extreme example, but that's the general idea behind not wanting much IAS as a channeler. Also, I assumed you have no wand or sig spell, but if you have either, you can recoup some of the losses. For example, with a wand your wand attack will fire while you're out of AP and does around 1/6th the damge of most channel skills (100% weapon damage vs 600% of AP spenders). That means you do an exta 200k*(1-10/36) dps after you run out, which lowers the mob kill time to 7.9s. If you use a sig spell, just multiply the 200*(1-10/36) by the weapon damage of the sig spell. With a sig spell that does some 200% weapon damage, the kill time is more like 6.78s. That means you only kill the mob about 48% faster with twice the DPS.
Keep in mind this is still just a rough approximation, so if you really want to compare actual dps with different IAS amounts, you'd have to account for cost reduction, multiple skills, etc. The example still should be useful in explaining the case against using lots of IAS as a channeler.
I agree with Bagstone (usually do, I think) and Drgreenthump. Toughness has too many factors to be of much use, imo, but that's another debate. I prefer to use mitigation and EHP. EHP is for how much damage you can survive and mitigation is for sustainability against mobs.
Damage only displays some dps stats, so it doesn't take into account other factors, like +elemental damage (the post 2.0 version) and +skill damage (like +disintegrate).
The idea of balancing is to have enough EHP to survive what you want to survive (molten explosions, bull charges, maniac explosions, etc), have enough mitigation to sustain against frequent damage such as poison pools, elite attacks, desecrator, and others, and then have enough damage to kill things at a pace that is reasonable for your play style. If you like to face roll through the game, then you probably want higher dps. If you want more challenge, you'll need higher EHP to survive. In the end, it's about playing the game how you want to.
Zuni boots+zuni ring should give a decent dps boost. Drop the Compass Rose for the ring. Pick up a Tal ammy for more dps gain. That should help quite a bit. You can also get a zuni chest for 3pc if you want more EHP, but that's not hugely important. Instead I'd say consider a tal chest for extra dps. Witching Hour for belt will also give you a decent dps increase. In short, I'd switch from EHP heavy to more dps heavy. You don't really need more than a couple hundred thousand EHP until you start pushing MP8-10. I have a recommended EHP vs MP for Archon table in a thread around here somewhere, so feel free to look at those numbers to see how much EHP you should be able to comfortably drop. That's assuming you're not playing HC.
You can also switch to pinpoint barrier since you have more than enough EHP for your dps.
Weapon. If you don't want to use a Life Steal weapon, then look for a rare sword with high int, CD+OS, and maybe even IAS. Or, if you really like the EF, get one with CD+OS instead of the dex/int roll on yours. That should give you quite a bit of a dps boost.
Don't write kk for a million. It's 300m, not 300kk.
Actually kk is probably more accurate since it would be 1,000 - 1,000's. MM is actually a more widely accepted abbreviation for 1 million than a single M...just saying since you shouted and all
I have never seem MM for million, but M I have seen all over the place, and it's even used in metric notation where M = mega = 10^6 = million. The problem is m means 10^-3, but that fact is overlooked in a game where no one cares about fractions of a gold and it's assumed m = M = million.
I personally also dislike using kk for million, and the first time I saw someone use that notation it took me a while to understand what it meant. I prefer to just say mil.
Overall, the SNS build doesn't do more dmg though since tornadoes don't have impact damage, I shoulda specified my point better. You're right, WW does proc SA better, but liquefy/SA/Shards/EB does more overall damage than SNS, granted you can comfortably cast more meteors without running out of AP, my bad I think I was tunnel visioning my reasoning.
I should probably make a video because it's not easy to explain without the hardcore theorycrafting done on the numbers, but the result is there.
I have a couple issues with those statements. First, Meteor doesn't do more damage than SNS in general. In sustained fights against single targets, SNS > Meteor, even if you could sustain meteor against single target. For short fights, Meteor can beat out SNS because of the burst damage of meteor.
Against elites, SNS > meteor if you can hit everything with each WW.
Where meteor gets ahead of SNS is the aoe potential against trash mobs because meteor has around 2x the radius as WW, roughly speaking. Also, if you can kill trash mobs fairly fast, then the burst damage of meteor can outweigh the damage of SNS because of the windup associated with SNS.
Otherwise, SNS > meteor in general. The math backs it up if you just look at the damage per WW cast + SA procs vs meteor cast with SA procs. That doesn't include the potential for extra DS and EB procs from WW, which further pushes it ahead of meteor in a lot of situations. The math gets more complicated once you start comparing say 4 WW mobs hit vs 5 hit with meteor, which is where trash mobs come into play.
IMO most of the reason to use meteor is because it's a cool spell and is fun to play with. If you're trying to make the most versatile, most efficient farming build, then it likely won't quite hold up to SNS, but I will concede that it's still viable with the right gear.
My input on the matter is pretty simple. If you can farm MP10 with 10 mil worth of gear using a specific build, but it takes more like 1 bil worth of gear for basically every other build (if not more), then that one build is unbalanced. That's CMWW in a nutshell.
Well, you really cannot farm MP10 with 10m worth of gear. I think the general notion of "farming" includes being able to both survive and kill content relatively efficiently, which is impossible on MP10 with 10m gear. Within the wizard class, I think CMWW and Archon are similarly pricey to handle high MP content. And again other classes are much cheaper to gear for MP10 and farm more efficiently. That's why I really don't see it as imbalanced. Variety sucks, we absolutely need alternatives, but it's not breaking the game. I rather feel that some people don't like mechanics like that and prefer to fight monsters with their bare hands.
The main point is you can gear for super cheap and survive as CMWW. Just surviving means you can farm it, though it won't be very efficient, but not many people farm MP at max efficiency anyway. Also, that means you can just grab a couple high dps friends and play in group play with your 50-100k dps CMWW and still contribute to the runs since you freeze elites. Good luck doing that with 10 mil in gear with any other build, even with high dps players, unless you don't mind being carried.
Personally my favorite solution would be to just change how FN works with CM, or specifically to make it not work with CM, or something like that. Then CM is still useful but SNS wouldn't be all that much better than other builds. The dps potential of other builds is on par with SNS, but they generally require a CMWW wizard to keep mobs in place to utilize full potential. Without chain freezing mobs all builds become a lot closer in terms of potential dps and survivability and you are once again forced to decide between DPS vs survival abilities and gear.
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In case there's any confusion, your Int, Vit, Str,DPS, HP, CC, CD, APS should exactly match the in game value (APS rounds to 2 decimals though). Your armor and lowest resist should match the in game values exactly, though they might differ by 1 due to rounding on the char sheet.
Detailed version with full gear stats comparison
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4-opYZrg_XRcE9RR0tVRTBwUlk/edit?usp=sharing
Features:
The spreadsheet features the ability to input your total stats and weapon stats to compute your dps and EHP. There's also a separate tab where you can compare different gear sets. The DPS value should match your in game Damage Number, provided all applicable stats are entered correctly. Additionally the spreadsheet computes relative dps gains for a range of dps stats and also reports those values in terms of comperable values of your primary stat, i.e., how many Intellect is 1%IAS worth, etc.
Here are some more specific features:
1) Calculates unbuffed dps, char sheet buffed dps, and effective char sheet dps. Char sheet buffed dps is what you will see in game based on all your skills. The effective char sheet dps is what your buffed char sheet dps would be if it included all the bonuses for the skill you use (such as +disintegrate%) and elemental damage type (like +arcane damage%).
2) Paragon point table where you can input how many points you spent on each stat. The table also shows you the relative gain of a paragon point for each stat to your effective char sheet dps and your EHP.
3) A second sheet allows you to compare two gear sets and displays the difference in EHP and DPS.
4) Relative dps and EHP gains for each stat are shown (int, vit, crit%, etc.).
5) A comparison of Marquise Ruby vs Emerald is shown for easy reference, or the gear comparison can be used to compare the different gems at higher levels. For most people Emerald will be much better now that weapon damage% has been drastically cut on new drops (used to go up to 50%, now it's like 10%, if that).
Limitations and Workarounds
Does not compute toughness stat, and toughness is not the same as EHP. I have no plans to implement functionality to compute toughness.
The spreadsheet does not work well with weapons that have a base attack speed of 1.15 APS, or any other base APS not divisible by 0.1. The workaround currently is to set the 1.15 APS weapon to 1.15 APS in the spreadsheet, and put 15% IAS on the weapon IAS cell in column C. That tricks the spreadsheet into computing the correct IAS. If your weapon does have IAS, I'm still working on a solution.
If you have any issues downloading or using the spreadsheet, feel free to post here or send me a PM after you've read the Help tab.
Currently planned additions: update to include other buffs like cold blooded and audacity/
EDIT:
3-15-14 Updated based on 2.0 changes
3-21-14 Updated formulas to account for AR from sockets
3-25-14 Updated Crit Damage to display the amount including paragon levels.
3-28-14
- Updated Mob level to 73 for Armor and resist mitigation and EHP calcs
- Updated Str, vit, and Int for a lvl 70 character
- Added Unwavering Will to buffs list
- Updated Enchantress EHP calculation to include armor from paragon points
- Updated HP calculation based on lvl 70 character
3-29-14 Corrected EHP calculation with Unwavering Will3-30-14 Corrected Paragon armor contribution on Full Gear Comparison tab
Added percent differences for DPS and EHP values between Equipped Items tab and Full Gear Comparison tab
3-31-14 Updated Life per Second from paragon levels to the correct amount for level 70 (165.1)
4-13-14 Updated Elite damage bonus calculation to be consistent with changes in game. It now is just an additve modifier.
Changed fill for cells C12 and C13 since they should remain blank
5-9-14 Corrected the Life% display on Equipped Items and Full Gear Comparison tabs to correctly include the amount from paragon points
5-22-14 Updated APS calculation to account for change in Enchantress contribution. Recent patch changed it from +0.03 APS to +3% IAS.
5-30-14 Fix a bug with Primary relative dps gain calculation on 'Equipped Items' tab that would give incorrect values when the enchantress was indicated as being used
5-31-14 fixed weapon damage% affix on weapons to work correctly with elemental damage, per patch 2.0.5 changes
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Case 1: Base Case
- APS = 1, AP spent per second = 18, max AP = 80, AP regen = 10, eDPS = 100k, mob hp = 1000k.
- Net AP usage= 8 AP per second, Channel time = 10s.
- Mob dies in 10s on average.
Case 2: Double APS, rest of stats same- APS = 2, AP spent per second = 36, max AP = 80, AP regen = 10, eDPS = 200k, mob hp = 1000k.
- Net AP usage=26 AP per second, Channel time = 3.08s.
- Damage done before out of AP = 2*308k = 615.4k.
- eDPS for remainder of fight, assuming no wand or sig spell = 200k*(10/36) = 55.56k
- Time required to finish mob = (1000k-2*308k)/(55.56k) = 6.91s
- Mob dies in 3.08+9.91 = 9.99s on average.
So you doubled your APS with IAS and you kill the mob in about the same time. If instead most of that were CC/CD/Ave dmg/Int in some combo, you'd definitely kill the mob faster. That means you lose edps by using the IAS over the other options in this example.Granted, that's a very extreme example, but that's the general idea behind not wanting much IAS as a channeler. Also, I assumed you have no wand or sig spell, but if you have either, you can recoup some of the losses. For example, with a wand your wand attack will fire while you're out of AP and does around 1/6th the damge of most channel skills (100% weapon damage vs 600% of AP spenders). That means you do an exta 200k*(1-10/36) dps after you run out, which lowers the mob kill time to 7.9s. If you use a sig spell, just multiply the 200*(1-10/36) by the weapon damage of the sig spell. With a sig spell that does some 200% weapon damage, the kill time is more like 6.78s. That means you only kill the mob about 48% faster with twice the DPS.
Keep in mind this is still just a rough approximation, so if you really want to compare actual dps with different IAS amounts, you'd have to account for cost reduction, multiple skills, etc. The example still should be useful in explaining the case against using lots of IAS as a channeler.
Edit: math should be (more) correct.
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Damage only displays some dps stats, so it doesn't take into account other factors, like +elemental damage (the post 2.0 version) and +skill damage (like +disintegrate).
The idea of balancing is to have enough EHP to survive what you want to survive (molten explosions, bull charges, maniac explosions, etc), have enough mitigation to sustain against frequent damage such as poison pools, elite attacks, desecrator, and others, and then have enough damage to kill things at a pace that is reasonable for your play style. If you like to face roll through the game, then you probably want higher dps. If you want more challenge, you'll need higher EHP to survive. In the end, it's about playing the game how you want to.
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You can also switch to pinpoint barrier since you have more than enough EHP for your dps.
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I have never seem MM for million, but M I have seen all over the place, and it's even used in metric notation where M = mega = 10^6 = million. The problem is m means 10^-3, but that fact is overlooked in a game where no one cares about fractions of a gold and it's assumed m = M = million.
I personally also dislike using kk for million, and the first time I saw someone use that notation it took me a while to understand what it meant. I prefer to just say mil.
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I have a couple issues with those statements. First, Meteor doesn't do more damage than SNS in general. In sustained fights against single targets, SNS > Meteor, even if you could sustain meteor against single target. For short fights, Meteor can beat out SNS because of the burst damage of meteor.
Against elites, SNS > meteor if you can hit everything with each WW.
Where meteor gets ahead of SNS is the aoe potential against trash mobs because meteor has around 2x the radius as WW, roughly speaking. Also, if you can kill trash mobs fairly fast, then the burst damage of meteor can outweigh the damage of SNS because of the windup associated with SNS.
Otherwise, SNS > meteor in general. The math backs it up if you just look at the damage per WW cast + SA procs vs meteor cast with SA procs. That doesn't include the potential for extra DS and EB procs from WW, which further pushes it ahead of meteor in a lot of situations. The math gets more complicated once you start comparing say 4 WW mobs hit vs 5 hit with meteor, which is where trash mobs come into play.
IMO most of the reason to use meteor is because it's a cool spell and is fun to play with. If you're trying to make the most versatile, most efficient farming build, then it likely won't quite hold up to SNS, but I will concede that it's still viable with the right gear.
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The main point is you can gear for super cheap and survive as CMWW. Just surviving means you can farm it, though it won't be very efficient, but not many people farm MP at max efficiency anyway. Also, that means you can just grab a couple high dps friends and play in group play with your 50-100k dps CMWW and still contribute to the runs since you freeze elites. Good luck doing that with 10 mil in gear with any other build, even with high dps players, unless you don't mind being carried.
Personally my favorite solution would be to just change how FN works with CM, or specifically to make it not work with CM, or something like that. Then CM is still useful but SNS wouldn't be all that much better than other builds. The dps potential of other builds is on par with SNS, but they generally require a CMWW wizard to keep mobs in place to utilize full potential. Without chain freezing mobs all builds become a lot closer in terms of potential dps and survivability and you are once again forced to decide between DPS vs survival abilities and gear.