DiabloFans

Quote from WeweW

Funny that most of you guys bitched it when the first gameplay videos came out. Why is it looks happy? Why is it colorful? WoW graphics etc. and now slower gameplay is better?

I never made any of those complaints. You have absolutely no way to know if "most of us" said anything about these videos.....unless you somehow have been tracking our statements for 4+ years.......

So stop making wild claims you have no way of actually knowing.

Quote from kaos6

I remember when some years ago people used to be more happy of something that was provided to them and they respected others people work in that matter. I miss that. I wish no more crybaby and whining threads like this on any forum...just enjoy the game

Just enjoy the game!!! Now!!

Quote from gallaghd

I posted this topic last night on the D3 forums. It WAS ERASED and I was banned for 72 hours.


Real nice they have time to delete threads and ban paying customers but cant fix the f^%$^ 395015 error on the PTR.


Slowly starting to dislike this company....

Did you say something against their TOU? Or just post the video?
My guess is you made some sort of comments thats against their TOU.

Quote from Temsen

At 12:28, casting locust swarm on the zombie dogs sounds like it'd really make some skill combinations more interesting. Was probably scrapped because they didn't have enough ideas/time for other skills.

Or how about if you hit a skeleton with a certain skill, it drops it's shield making it vulnerable? Sounds like a lot of their spell interaction ideas were too hard or didnt make the cut. Not that I think those things are that great.

This may sound weird, but I liked how it was slower than todays game. It just felt more like and ARPG. Seems like combat would be more fun that way, less about split second movement because elites are flinging fire at you every .2 seconds, and more about the gear/builds/smart play/strategy. That is more in-line with what I envision ARPGs to be like. The super fast pace, and WOW-like "move out of the fire" doesnt feel very good for Diablo. I mean, you had that in D1/2 also, but it wasn't the focus of fights, it was slightly more strategic than reaction based.

IDK, maybe I'm the only one......

Jesus......so much potential.

What the hell happened???????

Quote from Bagstone

Quote from Litheum

So i do understand, and I agree with your points about Blizzard, however I strongly disagree that they are listening, and they are not responding in the best interest of the game.....when it comes to D3.

Just by reading the official forums a few minutes every day the highlighted part can easily be disproved and therefore - I'm sorry to say this, because you're such an active and even though critical, oftentimes constructive poster - this comes across very ignorant.

I also disagree that the changes are "small" and "wrong" - except for WoW (which is subscription-based) and expansion packs (which are being paid for) I don't have the feeling D3's patches are any smaller in terms of content being added compared to any previous patches of any previous Blizzard games (and I've been playing them for 18+ years). But obviously, this is very subjective and we just have different opinions on this part. However, you can't deny that Blizzard is listening and reacting (though slowly) to user feedback.

Yah, we will just have to disagree.

Kind of reminds me of the old movie "white men can't jump"........

"Look man, You can listen to Jimi but you can't hear him. There's a difference man. Just because your listening to him doesn't mean you're hearing him."
- Sidney Deane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HauMNRzhyJQ

Quote from Catalept

Quote from Litheum

But again, my main goal is discussig the game and hopefully hanging around long enough to see some significant changes....and who knows, maybe I can spark some meaningful conversation along the way that helps Blizzard figure out how to fix things.

D3 will get significant changes. I'm not sure who handed out all the rose-tinted glasses that makes people think otherwise, but the simple fact is that Blizzard is (and has been for years) a company that moves slowly, but makes big changes. Blizzard's culture is built around iteration, and they don't always get it right. From Archon Toilets to Static Shock spam to Reckoning Bombs... they've always been prone to incredible slip-ups. The problem is that all three of their major franchises aren't just games, they're entire systems in which people are highly motivated to find efficient paths... and in cases like that, the organism will do what it damn well pleases. They respond slowly and deliberately, but they do respond, and I think it's simply wrong not to approach their efforts in good faith. I've said it before, but getting the most out of a Blizzard product is not something for the impatient.

You assume I don't know and play Blizzard games almost exlusively, and have seen Blizzard at work across all their games for 10+ years.

It is my opinion, that compared to their other games, D3 is not recieving the right changes, regardless of how big they are, they are just the wrong changes. And it is also my opinion they are not making big enough changes in the time they have had. I have seen bigger changes from them, I have seen better changes from them.

So i do understand, and I agree with your points about Blizzard, however I strongly disagree that they are listening, and they are not responding in the best interest of the game.....when it comes to D3.

Quote from Bagstone

While I don't agree with most of your reasoning and some of the posts you made in recent days, I'm surprised that I'm on board with all your ideas. Really nice thoughts, enjoyed reading them. Keep in mind that some of these ideas are going to be addressed soon as Blizzard has already mentioned them (item sink, mob density, ...).

Yah, I tend to rub people the wrong way......I really don't mean to, it just happens, not just on forums but real-life too. But normally once people get to know me, and understand my personality, we get along great. I'm in the Army, where my abrasive nature is accepted....and that helps a lot.

But yah......I am not here to just flame Blizzard, and I completely understand why a guy coming to a site called "Diablo FANS" is not well recieved when I complain a lot about Diablo.......

But I really do love the game, and Blizzard, but I just don't think D3 turned out to be any where near what I was expecting. Honestly, I am not the type of person to waste my time on things that don't have value. Once I see something has no value (this includes people....which really isnt good, but it's true) I tend to avoid them, and not waste any time on them. So just by me spending so much time here, trying to create meaningful conversation about the game, shows I do care for the game.

My goal is to talk with others about the game, see their views on things, get the latest news and insight on whats happening at Blizzard......and I would be lying of I said some of my posts werent written knowing Blizzard does read these forums. The official forums are a mess, and completely overun with trolls and flamefests, It is hard to get any sort of meaningful conversation going there. And god forbid a mod say something in one of those threads.......I find this website 10 times better for valuable discussion.

But again, my main goal is discussig the game and hopefully hanging around long enough to see some significant changes....and who knows, maybe I can spark some meaningful conversation along the way that helps Blizzard figure out how to fix things.

Anyway, in an attempt to get things back on topic.

End-game content in D3 revolves around running A3 endlessly. There are some arguments against that fact:
You don't HAVE TO farm A3.
Ubers are another option for end-game content.
You can play hardcore, or gear alts instead.
You can play without the AH.

My counter to that is a very large part of the community wants to steadily improve their character, playing the game the way it is designed. Rigt now, it is very hard to do that when having 1 character and farming A3 is the best way to improve your characters. Once you have 1really good Hellfire for your main, theres really no point in even getting hellfires for your alts because theres not much point in farming Plvls for alts, when your main will always be the best way to get upgrades for all your characters.

Also, because upgrades for your main cost exponentially more over time, it isnt even reasonable to spend your gold to gear your alts. If your next upgrade on your main is gonna cost 80 million, and you hve 20 million, you feel the best way to improve your character is to save that 20 million because you need it for the next upgrade.

Effectively, by gearing your alts you are directly gimping your main, meanin you are directly gimping your ability to farm A3 efficiently, and gear your alts. It's really quite a silly, and frustrating circle.

The best way to fix this is have an item sink so gear found in the environment can be used to gear up your alts.
With the best way to farm amounting to running A3 endlessly as you slowly gather gold for the next big upgrade to your super-farm main, it is going to be really hard to have any incentive to do much else besides run A3. Which IMO is the very core problem with the game, and the solutions to that problem are also the solutions to a lot of other issues:

- Add item sinks.
- Reduce the # of rares, but increase quality (10% fewer rare, 100% more useful rares....same time investment, less frustration)
- Improve mob density/elite density in A1/2/4.
- Give a reason to farm bosses
- Add incentive to farm on alts (remove bonus MF from paragon, increase chance for class-specific drops when using that class)
- Add another trade system that doesnt involve gold, to use to upgrade chars. Could be high-end, and used for mains to free up gold for alts......or low-end and free up gold for mains) In other words, a way to upgrade alts without hurting your mains resources for upgrades.
- Change Ubers rewards to have a chance for upgrades in all slots. Could be an item that improves one affix etc. Ubers are a good alternate and fun end-game machanic, but the reward needs to be worth the time and trouble of grouping.....and more importantly be worthwhile to farm even after you get a good ring. Could also make it so the ring you get always has the primary stat of the char you run with. This would add incentive to run Ubers on alts.
- Add a system to upgrade gear using crafting. Could get mats from areas of the game not normally farmed (lower density areas, or maybe whites only drop them. All areas have a chance for the mats to drop, but different routes might be better for mats, when thats what you want to farm) These items could be tradable, and if there is a place for BOA items, this would be it. You could upgrade an item using these, but then they are removed from the economy. Most likely you will want to do this on really high-end gear.....but if you do it's removed from the economy. Again addressing more then 1 issue, and also not inflating the high-end of the item economy.

I'm sure their are lots of reasons these won't work, or people won't like them......but the point is there are endless ideas out there that can address the core issues of the game, and get u out of A3 at the same time. I figure what I consider the greatest game-developer of years past can come up with something......anything.

Quote from overneathe

Quote from Zero(pS)

It scares the shit out of me seeing all these people behaving this way on the internet - because that's what they really are deep down (when nobody's looking and when they're protected by anonymity): full of hatred and extremely ignorant and tunnel visioned.

I'm afraid that's no longer the case, sadly. Worse than fan forums, far worse than battle.net... is Facebook. Where people have the worst language, the lowest kind of argumentation and the biggest sheep-like behavior. I'm afraid the past theories of anonymity have failed now that everyone uses their real name but the behavior is x10 worse.

Yah, and I'm really not sure comments made by most people really represent what they think, wether it's anonymous or not. A lot of it is attention seeking, attempts at wit/humour, or emotionally driven nonsense seeking pity or a some other reaction.

I think that bothers me more than knowing some people are really as dumb and angry as they sound on the internet.....the fact people say things they don't mean at all, have no facts, or just try for a reaction. They can't be reasoned with, and pretty much destroy any real chance of meaningful conversation on the internet.....which is a damn shame because there is no better way to gets groups of people from around the world talking about a topic.

And when you try to moderate them.....they scream freedom of speach, and further derail the topic.
With the news so full of politics and skewed views on how they deliver any story, I just want someone to invent a new form of media that isnt full of crap.

Quote from overneathe

Quote from Litheum

Just curios, how do you know so much about the business side of Blizzard? Just that much of a fan, or is their more to it than that? (in game development yourself or something)?

I've been a game journalist for about 5 years now. Can't really escape knowing these things when sometimes (not really on this site) you have to write huge materials on them. But I've indeed worked for a few companies now. Nothing big. But it brings lots of perspective.

Ah, I see, makes sense.

Quote from trocadero_fuerte

Soul bound stuff should have been in the game from the beginning. It's the easiest, most effective way to remove stuff from the economy. Instead, they changed their mind, and now are panicking while the AH is over-inflated. Also, they screwed up crafting in general so bad, that there's little incentive to sink items into the artisans. Also, why didn't the Jeweler craft rings and amulets from the beginning, 1-60?

I agree it is the easiest way, but it is also the laziest and unoriginal.

The game is all about loot, customization, and farming for better and better gear. The game would feel a lot more like an ARPG and add a lot more to custimization and depth of the game by having items be usable in some form. Theres a lot of ways to accomplish this, most obvious would be combining items in some way, or using items as crafting mats in craft recipes etc.

Not only does it make items more intriquing and add depth to the gear system, and give another much requested feature, a way to upgrade your current gear. They would have to find a way to make all levels of gear worth destroying, but that wouldnt be hard.....other games are doing it, and I know Blizz is smart enough to figure out a system that works.

Quote from overneathe

I'll weigh in with some facts of my own without trying to support any of the posters above.

Diablo 3 was originally indeed planned as an MMO, but didn't have the "feel of an MMO". This was actually also the original idea for Diablo 2. From an interview with Brevik: http://www.forbes.co...ion-rpg-throne/

Development for the game started in 2000, but with a very small core team of developers. Most of the staff was still working on LoD and jumped on D3 in 2001. It's a technicality really. You're both right to a degree.

Development of the "new" Diablo 3 started after 2005. Jay Wilson was brought in in 2006 to lead the design of the new version. Some work on the engine and some art has likely been done previously. That we know for a fact. Did development on the old version end in 2003 and there were 2 years of wasted space, or was there playing around with the old version and it was ultimately shut down in 2005 is unknown.

Just curios, how do you know so much about the business side of Blizzard? Just that much of a fan, or is their more to it than that? (in game development yourself or something)?

Quote from Xenocow

Quote from Gheed2010

Folks used to that quantity of content may not be terribly satisfied with a game that weighs in at a third of that size.

Ehm?
* You got 3 complete Act's (third comes with the Open Beta).
* Also you got Maps : Path of Exile's end-game areas are items called Maps. They grant limited access to a new world area that can contain great challenges and greater rewards. Like other items, Maps can have random mods that affect their difficulty. For more information, please read this development diary entry about the system.

And i am pretty sure they have way more Stuff on the Road to come. Dont forget, its still beta.

Also, their plan is to release a new act and parallel content every 9 months after launch indefinately.
Their database right now does not include what they are adding on the 23rd with the Open Beta release, they intentionally held releasing Act 3 for open beta, and it will also include more commodity items/packages, items, maps etc. So their will continue to be content and depth added over time.

Quote from Zero(pS)

Quote from ruksak

Quote from Indimix

I love how people commit fallacies all the time.

In this case, Shaggy, you are justifying that Diablo 3 is ok because D2 and D1 had no endgame. That, is a logical fallacy.

He has a point. We're talking about expectations that were transferred from one title to the next. The "point" of Diablo has always been farming, gear, trades and PvP. That is the endgame. There need not be some constantly fresh MMO material to wage through.

^ spot on.

And comparing games/franchises' comments and expectations to crimes is the illogical thing to me.

@Litheum why do a lot of people take as if farming any other areas other than Act 3 route is useless?

Granted, it might not be as efficient, but the chance of dropping a perfect trifecta amulet is pretty much the same. The Tal Rasha's chest with +80 resist all that I sold for 90 mil dropped from a skeleton on Act 1's cathedral.

To be honest, we have both stated our points over and over in many, many different ways. It is apparent to me we just flat-out disagree at a very base level, and no amount of discussion is going to convince me Blizzard is doing enough to improve the game. And I don't think I will ever get you to see why I feel the game is too boring, and has fell far short of my expectations of a Blizzard game.

So at this point, I am going to bow-out of this discussion. I really don't think I will come bck to D3 for a long time, if the current patch cycle/size is any indicator. I've said enough here, and if I havent made my point by now to certain people, then chances are those people will never see my point.

Thanks though, it was some quality discussion.