Honestly, out of all the flaws that D3 suffers from, these three feel the least 'infuriating' to me. At most, I'd say it's annoying to identify rare items one by one, especially when it is nothing but a pointless chore 99.99% time.
Yeah, I kind of know what you mean, these really are more "annoyances" than anything else, but the reason that I find them "infuriating" is because they are no brainers and so easy to fix.
Fair points, and thanks for the contribution.
1) Yes, I tend to agree that the "whiny" forum posters (maybe I am one of them now!) tend to be misrepresented simply because they are more vocal. That said, my feeling is that most players, especially the high end players would prefer an identify all feature, and it would be easy to make it optional which keeps everyone happy.
2) You are probably right that the "anticipation" was part of the original reasoning, but IMHO, there is no anticipation factor - we all know what you are going to get 4 seconds after pushing the button!. It's good to hear that the issue is on their radar though.
Good point about opportunity cost, but again the fact that we are assuming that these are easy fixes also assumes that very little time is diverted away from other, possibly more important, activities. You are right that it is in the nature of many to moan/whine regardless of what blizzard does, but my point is that I believe it is actually possible to keep (almost) everyone happy - e.g. making the Identify all optional. (gee, I would even be happy to pay gold for the ID all service!)
fair enough richtko, and I am sure that there are a decent proportion of the player base that agrees with you and isn't too worried about these points. However, I also know that there is a large proportion who are irked by the items I have mentioned. The point is that Blizzard could easily "fix" these elements. By doing so, they wouldn't upset you (or any of the people that think like you) but they would certainly make the game a whole lot more fun for me (and the people who do think like me).
I love this game, and have spent hundreds of hours playing it, but there are a few design decisions which I find are absolutely infuriating and I cannot for the life of me understand why the D3 design team won't fix them. Is it just plain stubbornness, or is the development team that far out of touch with the community?
Here are my top 3 of nonsensical frustrations. 1)Identifying items. - At least the community managers and game developers have tried to improve this element, but I cannot understand why they won't implement an Identify all feature when the vast majority of the community have continuously stated that this is what they want. I've read the explanations about the "present unwrapping" /anticipation, but frankly that argument does not hold up with the itemisation system that they have implemented where the vast, vast majority of yellow items are junk. 2) Time to craft gems - Unlike item 1, I have never heard of a good explanation for this and it just seems like an insane waste of time. Like seriously, what is the point blizzard???? it has to be the most boring part of the game by a long shot and serves no purpose except to bore the player base away from the game. A classic example is the requirement for perfect square gems required for the jeweler designs in 1.07. Most people are going to want to craft at least 20-30 items at a time for efficiency reasons and also to give themselves a decent shot at an upgrade. So for all the people wanting to craft their own, this generally means several minutes of mind numbing; "click, and wait 4 seconds, repeat adnauseum". What is the point? What would be so wrong with implementing a "Shift + click" that did 10 at a time for example? Similarly, upgrading all your pre-inferno crafting materials is the same boring exercise. 3) Time to craft recipes - same argument as above. Lots of us are going to be crafting 20,30 maybe even 50+ or more items at a time - what is the point of waiting 3-4 seconds every time.
As I said at the outset, I really do enjoy this game and think that it is getting much better with every patch, but these particular items annoy the crap out of me and I find it sad that such obvious and simple improvements can't be addressed. To me at least, it does definitely demonstrate that the developers are indeed out of touch.
agree with other comments and will add a couple of my own;
Sorry, I really don't like your mainhand. The damage figures of "477-776" is way too low for your level of character. Don't forget that this is the figure which your tornadoes are based on and you can get a much better axe or mace for 10M or so. Just remember to aim for the best "XX-XX" Damage figure that you can (i.e. don't focus solely on DPS) Consider swapping your echo to offhand so you can keep the strength and APS and strength but significantly reduce the annoying fear affect.
2nd comment is prob just stating the obvious, but you need a lot more crit chance. I'm guessing that you will be having a real hard time with fury management and/or keeping wrath up?
dont get an ef. u will hate it and so will every person who does a run with u.
i have a buddy who rocks one and i flat out told him i will not do a single run with him if he uses it. infact, i handed him my main hand axe to use and dropped my dps by 30k just so i wouldnt have to deal iwht his ef. ur "paperdoll" dps may be higher, but ur effective dps is so stupidly low because of ur lack of fury and the lack of mobs ur hitting every second because they run everywhere
This is exactly why I have been doing some experiments and started this thread. There certainly are plenty of EF haters out here on the forums and I was very scared that I was going to hate it also. But after playing around with a few cheap ones, I am convinced that a decent EF ($100-200M) will deliver me;
A big DPS increase (real, not paper dps!)
Massive improvement in attack speeds which in turn provides a disproportionate increase in RLTW and WW ticks - this makes fury management much easier.
A slight PITA factor from the fear factor (with the point of this thread to try and understand how to minimise the effects of fear).
In my experiments using an attack speed EF @ 1.51 aps, I was getting into 23/26 ticks per second and 26/30 tps with WOTB up. And this is with no attack speed on my rings or amulet, so plenty of potential to bump up to the next breakpoints!
Even with a very low base damage EF (800dps with no critical hit damage), I was killing mobs nearly as quickly as I do with my 1000dps mace with 98% crit damage! I was quite surprised!. Fury management was much easier at these attack speeds as well.
I was testing on MP7. I have since tested with a slower EF @1.43 with higher damage (1000dps) but it wasn't fast enough to hit a decent RLTW breakpoint and it actually took much longer than the 800dps EF!. I have been using high Fear Ef's for my testing and even at 19.5% fear, the effect isn't that bad given I use a cold damage dagger and also have the cold Stone of Jordan as well. A combination of both seems to very effectively negate the Fear effect, although I don't really want to run with a SoJ, so next step is to trial a cold damage scoundrel.
I assume your buddy is not using any Fear reduction equipment?
LOL - First time in my life I've been accused of being a socialist! You clearly have studied market mechanisms and you seem keen to display your knowledge, but I'll leave the discussion there. FYI, I actually agree with the majority of your comments.
The comment that I made with regards to the "haves" and the "have nots" was purely with respect to the retards who use bots to cheat in this game. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that particular point. Good luck with your gaming.
@richtko - yes, I'll have a go with scoundrel over next few days - although I haven't used him since about character level 10 as I found his voice annoying :P. Also, have been reluctant to give up 3%IAS from enchantress.
@Nutbro - thanks for your response. By the way, I have learnt a hell of a lot from your tick frequency research, and the breakpoints are a big part of the reason I am going down this path - I am planning on getting to attack speeds of 2.5/2.857 and 2.857/3.333 with WOTB up. The extra tick frequency makes fury management SO much easier.... Thanks again for all your brilliant work.
Your response has also cleared up a couple of things for me - especially why I don't see the cold dmg effects which is being overruled by lightning dmg in terms of animation at least.
Do you happen to know if cold damage actually scales? i.e. are we supposed to see more of a slowing effect with higher cold damage? I might be imagining it, but it seems that the monsters are actually slower with both dagger and SoJ equipped than when just the dagger or just the SoJ is equipped. It also seems that SoJ works better than the cold dmg dagger, but again I may be imagining it.
You are right, of course but I think the discussion is a fair bit more complex..... The (subtle) point I was making is that as the player base dwindles, demand dries up and prices of the goodies I am finding is falling. Therefore it is taking a lot more time to generate in game gold compared to 3-6 weeks ago. Now, by rights, economic theory suggests that high end (BiS) item prices should also start to fall to meet the lack of gold being generated... BUT the fly in the ointment is that I think botters have seriously distorted the market place to the point that there is now a 2 tier market - the "haves" and the "have nots". Botters are generating enough gold (including great legendary drops) to be able to trade amongst themselves whilst the peeps (like me) struggle through requiring enormous hours to progress by very incremental margins! It was great to see the ban wave yesterday, lets hope it helps even the playing field, but I wonder how much damage is already done?
I am one of those tenacious types, so I'll keep grinding my way through but the vast majority of players are not as persistent and that imho is why we are seeing a very serious drop off in player numbers....
Pretty much this I think; the damage dealt by the dagger would be cold, but WW negates the offhand (run with the wind doesn't), and the SoJ adds proportional cold damage based on your total damage output, thus "procs" on every attack.
Sorry - responded before I seen your reply. So what you are saying is that I am noticing the cold effects of the SoJ way more often because it is proc'ing way more often? That might imply that an offhand cold damage weapon is in fact not such a great offset to the Fear proc? (which is what my testing was seeming to suggest!)
Does it make sense to you that I seem to be getting an additive effect when using both?
cuz ur dagger deals cold damage, while the soj is +% to cold damage
so assuming ur using whirlwind, the damage on the offhand is ignored completely, afaik anyway
I'm not so sure....but could well be wrong. All of this is difficult to measure empirically, but the effects seem to be additive. I "seem" to be getting a "slow" effect with just the cold dagger equipped. I "seem" to be getting a more pronounced slowing effect with BOTH SoJ and cold dagger equipped. If i had to guess, it seems that the SoJ on its own has more of a slow effect than the cold dagger on its own??
I definitely get lots of telltale signs of cold damage (ice cubes on the ground!) when I have the SoJ equipped....
Another forumite has suggested using a Buritza on my follower - so I might experiment with that as well. Keen to get a good understanding of this all before I drop $150M on a EF...
Looking for some advice & clarification please for a typical WW barb spec. I have been saving up for a couple of weeks with intention of purchasing an echoing Fury. I only have 150M ish to spend so cant afford top drawer (CHD or Lifesteal etc) but there seems to be some decent 1200dps with socket/str versions available within my price range. Might even be able to get some vit or attack speed within budget too.
I want to use EF in main hand as I like to try and keep my dagger in OH which gives me the high attack speed (fury regen) I am after.... I was very concerned that I would hate the Fear Proc though so have been doing some reading and experimenting which has raised a few questions....
I read that Stone of Jordan (with cold damage) or an offhand with cold dmg largely negates effects of EF even when used on MH. My existing dagger already has cold damage. So I then went and bought a cheap EF (Socket, 1000 dps, 150str, for $5M) and also a SoJ with 5% cold damage for $5M as well. I purposely bought a high fear EF for testing purposes @ 19.5%)
So here's the thing after playing around with different configurations for an hour or so;
An EF in main hand and my dagger with cold damage still results in annoying fear procs.
Equipping both a Stone of Jordan AND the cold damage dagger seems to work way better and the fear proc is very manageable.
The SoJ on its own seems to work significantly better than the cold dmg dagger?
Also, when I have the SoJ equipped - the cold damage is very noticeable - i.e. monsters seem to freeze and there is often lots of ice around after they die?? I don't notice this when I have only the cold damage dagger equipped.
Also, the SoJ states "+5% cold damage" - I assume this adds 5% of black damage as cold damage?
Interesting - thanks. Have been doing some reading and experimenting over the last couple of days - just started a new topic on using cold damage offhand and SoJ to offset the fear proc. Hadn't heard of the scoundrel/Buriza trick, so will look into it.
cheers
I am also finding it increasingly difficult to sell anything on the AH.... I'm sure that a dwindling player base has a lot to do with it. It certainly makes it a very slow and quite frustrating process to try and upgrade...
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Yeah, I kind of know what you mean, these really are more "annoyances" than anything else, but the reason that I find them "infuriating" is because they are no brainers and so easy to fix.
0
Fair points, and thanks for the contribution.
1) Yes, I tend to agree that the "whiny" forum posters (maybe I am one of them now!) tend to be misrepresented simply because they are more vocal. That said, my feeling is that most players, especially the high end players would prefer an identify all feature, and it would be easy to make it optional which keeps everyone happy.
2) You are probably right that the "anticipation" was part of the original reasoning, but IMHO, there is no anticipation factor - we all know what you are going to get 4 seconds after pushing the button!. It's good to hear that the issue is on their radar though.
Good point about opportunity cost, but again the fact that we are assuming that these are easy fixes also assumes that very little time is diverted away from other, possibly more important, activities. You are right that it is in the nature of many to moan/whine regardless of what blizzard does, but my point is that I believe it is actually possible to keep (almost) everyone happy - e.g. making the Identify all optional. (gee, I would even be happy to pay gold for the ID all service!)
Cheers
1
2
Here are my top 3 of nonsensical frustrations.
1) Identifying items. - At least the community managers and game developers have tried to improve this element, but I cannot understand why they won't implement an Identify all feature when the vast majority of the community have continuously stated that this is what they want. I've read the explanations about the "present unwrapping" /anticipation, but frankly that argument does not hold up with the itemisation system that they have implemented where the vast, vast majority of yellow items are junk.
2) Time to craft gems - Unlike item 1, I have never heard of a good explanation for this and it just seems like an insane waste of time. Like seriously, what is the point blizzard???? it has to be the most boring part of the game by a long shot and serves no purpose except to bore the player base away from the game. A classic example is the requirement for perfect square gems required for the jeweler designs in 1.07. Most people are going to want to craft at least 20-30 items at a time for efficiency reasons and also to give themselves a decent shot at an upgrade. So for all the people wanting to craft their own, this generally means several minutes of mind numbing; "click, and wait 4 seconds, repeat adnauseum". What is the point? What would be so wrong with implementing a "Shift + click" that did 10 at a time for example? Similarly, upgrading all your pre-inferno crafting materials is the same boring exercise.
3) Time to craft recipes - same argument as above. Lots of us are going to be crafting 20,30 maybe even 50+ or more items at a time - what is the point of waiting 3-4 seconds every time.
As I said at the outset, I really do enjoy this game and think that it is getting much better with every patch, but these particular items annoy the crap out of me and I find it sad that such obvious and simple improvements can't be addressed. To me at least, it does definitely demonstrate that the developers are indeed out of touch.
0
Sorry, I really don't like your mainhand. The damage figures of "477-776" is way too low for your level of character. Don't forget that this is the figure which your tornadoes are based on and you can get a much better axe or mace for 10M or so. Just remember to aim for the best "XX-XX" Damage figure that you can (i.e. don't focus solely on DPS) Consider swapping your echo to offhand so you can keep the strength and APS and strength but significantly reduce the annoying fear affect.
2nd comment is prob just stating the obvious, but you need a lot more crit chance. I'm guessing that you will be having a real hard time with fury management and/or keeping wrath up?
0
This is exactly why I have been doing some experiments and started this thread. There certainly are plenty of EF haters out here on the forums and I was very scared that I was going to hate it also. But after playing around with a few cheap ones, I am convinced that a decent EF ($100-200M) will deliver me;
- A big DPS increase (real, not paper dps!)
- Massive improvement in attack speeds which in turn provides a disproportionate increase in RLTW and WW ticks - this makes fury management much easier.
- A slight PITA factor from the fear factor (with the point of this thread to try and understand how to minimise the effects of fear).
In my experiments using an attack speed EF @ 1.51 aps, I was getting into 23/26 ticks per second and 26/30 tps with WOTB up. And this is with no attack speed on my rings or amulet, so plenty of potential to bump up to the next breakpoints!Even with a very low base damage EF (800dps with no critical hit damage), I was killing mobs nearly as quickly as I do with my 1000dps mace with 98% crit damage! I was quite surprised!. Fury management was much easier at these attack speeds as well.
I was testing on MP7. I have since tested with a slower EF @1.43 with higher damage (1000dps) but it wasn't fast enough to hit a decent RLTW breakpoint and it actually took much longer than the 800dps EF!. I have been using high Fear Ef's for my testing and even at 19.5% fear, the effect isn't that bad given I use a cold damage dagger and also have the cold Stone of Jordan as well. A combination of both seems to very effectively negate the Fear effect, although I don't really want to run with a SoJ, so next step is to trial a cold damage scoundrel.
I assume your buddy is not using any Fear reduction equipment?
0
LOL - First time in my life I've been accused of being a socialist! You clearly have studied market mechanisms and you seem keen to display your knowledge, but I'll leave the discussion there. FYI, I actually agree with the majority of your comments.
The comment that I made with regards to the "haves" and the "have nots" was purely with respect to the retards who use bots to cheat in this game. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that particular point. Good luck with your gaming.
0
@richtko - yes, I'll have a go with scoundrel over next few days - although I haven't used him since about character level 10 as I found his voice annoying :P. Also, have been reluctant to give up 3%IAS from enchantress.
@Nutbro - thanks for your response. By the way, I have learnt a hell of a lot from your tick frequency research, and the breakpoints are a big part of the reason I am going down this path - I am planning on getting to attack speeds of 2.5/2.857 and 2.857/3.333 with WOTB up. The extra tick frequency makes fury management SO much easier.... Thanks again for all your brilliant work.
Your response has also cleared up a couple of things for me - especially why I don't see the cold dmg effects which is being overruled by lightning dmg in terms of animation at least.
Do you happen to know if cold damage actually scales? i.e. are we supposed to see more of a slowing effect with higher cold damage? I might be imagining it, but it seems that the monsters are actually slower with both dagger and SoJ equipped than when just the dagger or just the SoJ is equipped. It also seems that SoJ works better than the cold dmg dagger, but again I may be imagining it.
1
You are right, of course but I think the discussion is a fair bit more complex..... The (subtle) point I was making is that as the player base dwindles, demand dries up and prices of the goodies I am finding is falling. Therefore it is taking a lot more time to generate in game gold compared to 3-6 weeks ago. Now, by rights, economic theory suggests that high end (BiS) item prices should also start to fall to meet the lack of gold being generated... BUT the fly in the ointment is that I think botters have seriously distorted the market place to the point that there is now a 2 tier market - the "haves" and the "have nots". Botters are generating enough gold (including great legendary drops) to be able to trade amongst themselves whilst the peeps (like me) struggle through requiring enormous hours to progress by very incremental margins! It was great to see the ban wave yesterday, lets hope it helps even the playing field, but I wonder how much damage is already done?
I am one of those tenacious types, so I'll keep grinding my way through but the vast majority of players are not as persistent and that imho is why we are seeing a very serious drop off in player numbers....
0
Sorry - responded before I seen your reply. So what you are saying is that I am noticing the cold effects of the SoJ way more often because it is proc'ing way more often? That might imply that an offhand cold damage weapon is in fact not such a great offset to the Fear proc? (which is what my testing was seeming to suggest!)
Does it make sense to you that I seem to be getting an additive effect when using both?
0
I'm not so sure....but could well be wrong. All of this is difficult to measure empirically, but the effects seem to be additive. I "seem" to be getting a "slow" effect with just the cold dagger equipped. I "seem" to be getting a more pronounced slowing effect with BOTH SoJ and cold dagger equipped. If i had to guess, it seems that the SoJ on its own has more of a slow effect than the cold dagger on its own??
I definitely get lots of telltale signs of cold damage (ice cubes on the ground!) when I have the SoJ equipped....
Another forumite has suggested using a Buritza on my follower - so I might experiment with that as well. Keen to get a good understanding of this all before I drop $150M on a EF...
thanks
0
Looking for some advice & clarification please for a typical WW barb spec. I have been saving up for a couple of weeks with intention of purchasing an echoing Fury. I only have 150M ish to spend so cant afford top drawer (CHD or Lifesteal etc) but there seems to be some decent 1200dps with socket/str versions available within my price range. Might even be able to get some vit or attack speed within budget too.
I want to use EF in main hand as I like to try and keep my dagger in OH which gives me the high attack speed (fury regen) I am after.... I was very concerned that I would hate the Fear Proc though so have been doing some reading and experimenting which has raised a few questions....
I read that Stone of Jordan (with cold damage) or an offhand with cold dmg largely negates effects of EF even when used on MH. My existing dagger already has cold damage. So I then went and bought a cheap EF (Socket, 1000 dps, 150str, for $5M) and also a SoJ with 5% cold damage for $5M as well. I purposely bought a high fear EF for testing purposes @ 19.5%)
So here's the thing after playing around with different configurations for an hour or so;
An EF in main hand and my dagger with cold damage still results in annoying fear procs.
Equipping both a Stone of Jordan AND the cold damage dagger seems to work way better and the fear proc is very manageable.
The SoJ on its own seems to work significantly better than the cold dmg dagger?
Also, when I have the SoJ equipped - the cold damage is very noticeable - i.e. monsters seem to freeze and there is often lots of ice around after they die?? I don't notice this when I have only the cold damage dagger equipped.
Also, the SoJ states "+5% cold damage" - I assume this adds 5% of black damage as cold damage?
Any help with understanding the mechanics would be much appreciated!
http://us.battle.net...ile/Pixie-6127/
0
cheers
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